What is Digg?276 Comments
- HiroOfShadows, on 12/23/2008, -5/+105"Does anyone's parents or grandparents still use IE8?"
Well, considering IE8 isn't publicly available yet, no. - AmyVernon, on 12/22/2008, -21/+110Here's the simple solution: Use Firefox. lol
- Eyebee, on 12/22/2008, -8/+67The thing is if Microsoft could find someone clever enough to write a browser for them that was actually W3C compliant, us web designers wouldn't have to waste time 'tweaking' code to get sites to work in this pile of trash.
- anilbisht04, on 12/22/2008, -9/+59Microsoft is surely losing on browser front
- inactive, on 12/23/2008, -2/+33"Does anyone's parents or grandparents still use IE8?" <---- have i been in a coma or something, last time i looked ie8 was in beta testing
- BeShirtHappy, on 12/22/2008, -14/+45Yeah, Firefox for me.
- Swil, on 12/23/2008, -1/+30They're perfectly capable of making a W3C compliant browser, they've just got the embarrassing problem of needing to not break all the websites that were made for IE6, including all those dodgy intranet sites corporations have hidden away. Nowhere near as much as an issue for Gecko & WebKit.
Hopefully the problem will soon go away as everyone upgrades and in a couple of years IE6 will just have been a bad dream. - iziizi, on 12/22/2008, -1/+28whilst i hate ie6 and 7 there is no way i could get away with throwing 20% of the market off.
- HiroOfShadows, on 12/23/2008, -4/+29honestly, who's burying me?
- jeremymccurdy, on 12/23/2008, -3/+23And hooker body parts aren't supposed to be in my freezer, but these things happen...
- xprojects, on 12/22/2008, -5/+25I dumped IE6 support last year on a web site with 20% of it's traffic reporting with IE6. The new layout was almost entirely crippled in the browser, with some pages rendering off-the-charts ugly and unusable. The technology and design approach simply required advanced CSS and JavaScript... it wouldn't have been possible to make it compatible with IE6 without downgrading and removing features specifically for those users, and maintenance would have been a real mind-bender when adding new features...
The results a year later? Well, obviously quite a few of those users disappeared, but 15% of the traffic is still using IE6. I did eventually make a few tweaks to make it less painful for those users with the most recent version of IE6, but it's still a mess and some functionality is broken. I also don't test new features in IE6, and IE7 is barely on my radar anymore.
Sadly, there's no climax to this story, just a confusing and sad outcome for everyone involved. Best practice moving forward is to build browser checks in from the start as a base feature of your core application engine. - aussieNickuss, on 12/23/2008, -2/+21That's why you use <!--[if IE6]> (or IE7) rather than just <!--[if IE]>.
- inactive, on 12/23/2008, -4/+23The description says "Does anyone's parents or grandparents still use IE8? " I thought IE8 wasn't even released yet... So chances are unless your parents or grandparents are IT professionals, they won't be using a beta or RC copy of IE 8.
- Hortnon, on 12/23/2008, -3/+21IE8 correctly passes Acid2, at least, complete with mouseover nose. Claiming that MS just flat out doesn't follow standards is outdated thinking.
- LMN8R, on 12/23/2008, -3/+20 "Still use IE8?" What the ***** is this *****? You realize that IE8 was never released in more of a form than a completely unmarketed beta, right?
Why the hell would anyone's parents or grandparents be using it in the first place, even if it was the best thing ever? Are your parents and grandparents using early beta versions of Firefox?
How about making this thread/article when IE8 is *actually released*? - s0m31john, on 12/22/2008, -4/+20100% PEBKAC
- Chicory, on 12/23/2008, -0/+15Er...trout don't go in the toaster. Remind me to never help you debug your kitchen appliances.
- MAGZine, on 12/23/2008, -0/+15I'm sure Grandpa and Grandma are using a pre-release developer edition of Internet Explorer 8.
- kevisazombie, on 12/22/2008, -3/+17I tend to use a CSS reset sheet at the start of development and find I only have to make minor tweaks to accommodate IE6. Javascript is a totally different issue. Projects already built without using a reset that need new pages are an incredible pain. If your building a site from scratch and not using a reset your doing it wrong.
- JasonHaley, on 12/23/2008, -0/+14My great great grandad used IE8. ...but then again he was also Benjamin Button.
- eldridgea, on 12/23/2008, -1/+15IT can exert an extreme amount of control over IE6 from Windows Server.
That's why they like it. - Hortnon, on 12/23/2008, -4/+17Apple's never stolen from anyone, right?
- jeremymccurdy, on 12/23/2008, -12/+25Is your IT department full of idiots or something? Other than the fact that it comes pre-installed with Windows it has nothing over Firefox/Opera/Chrome/Safari/A toaster full of dead trout.
- MtheoryX, on 12/23/2008, -8/+21So, we have another useless line of code to add in order to appease MS? Pardon my language, but...***** that.
- stygiansonic, on 12/23/2008, -0/+11This is a well-written article, but the author clearly misses the point when it comes to WHY sites don't render properly.
He attributes it to laziness on the part of web designers, who couldn't be bothered to update their site just because IE8 told them to do so. He then points out how easy it was to "update" his site to work with IE8. There are several problems to his approach.
Firstly, "lazy" web designers are not the problem. IE has, and always will be the problem. ANYONE who has done any sort of reasonable web design will have encountered and have been frustrated by trying to get your design working in IE. The process is almost always the same: Get things working right in Firefox/Opera, then tweak to get it to work in IE while hoping it won't break the standards-compliant browsers.
The fact that IE8 is now working in standards mode by default is good, but don't expect everyone to change just because of a new browser. I've designed sites that looked good in Firefox 1.0/Opera 8... they still look good in the updated versions of these browsers.
Secondly, his "quick" fix is to merely post that ugly META tag on to his site. All this does is force IE8 to act like IE7, perpetuating the same problems that caused this entire mess in the first place - non-standard behaviour that we've come to expect from IE! This doesn't really fix anything and merely allows for more browser-specific nonsense. - kungphukenobi, on 12/23/2008, -2/+13I love how Mac users know more about enterprise IT than the IT department workers who's career it is to know these things....
- MtheoryX, on 12/23/2008, -0/+11So, did you get any feedback from users? Or they just went away?
- Hortnon, on 12/23/2008, -4/+14Then you suck at using computers. Try an Etch-A-Sketch, it might be more your level.
- Chicory, on 12/23/2008, -1/+11No, you haven't been in a coma; the person who submitted the Digg comes from the future.
- Hortnon, on 12/23/2008, -2/+11I doubt his site is worth the effort of a user installing a new browser and adapting to the new interface.
In fact, the only sites I've ever seen that do that are from arrogant ***** that have generally worthless sites anyway. - Hortnon, on 12/23/2008, -0/+9I'm almost with you -
The problem is that IE6 isn't compliant, and that people still use it. That and IE8 is much better at supporting the standards.
So rendering old IE6-formatted crap on IE8 is going to cause problems.
You think FireFox, etc, don't take that into account when rendering pages? Look at the sites he lists - Facebook, CNN, etc. - diggafrica, on 12/23/2008, -1/+10It has become culture to assume that many innovations by Microsoft is not up to standard. I have used IE8 & I would say it is pretty decent.
- Hortnon, on 12/23/2008, -1/+10Ok, that I can agree with. But that's not the fault of IE - That's the fault of the user.
Someone using Firefox could still do the same thing to their PC, guaranteed. - sauron256, on 12/23/2008, -1/+10Obviously no one here read TFA, the article says that these sites are on the IE8 hall of shame because the authors have *not* bothered to add a line of code making them work with IE8. It's not an IE bashing article.
- Hortnon, on 12/23/2008, -5/+14How does it feel to be so much better and smarter than everyone?
- badqat, on 12/22/2008, -12/+20The IT department at work loves IE. It's the basic install on every new computer.
Needless to say, they aren't real fond of my Mac, but then I don't plan on letting them touch it... - Titan615, on 12/23/2008, -4/+12I simply cannot comprehend the ignorance of your comment. IE6 and IE7 are terrible browsers. IE6 had its heyday and it is no longer top dog. There are so many better browsers out there that comply to the standards.
Also Microsoft is a W3C member so yeah....
http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Member/List - kungphukenobi, on 12/23/2008, -2/+10Why we like it AND why its necessary in any big corporate environment.
Think about it, you administer 500 PC's and put firefox on them because its better than IE..
You want to make a corporate wide change to security settings to do with accepting cookies...
OH noes, you have to visit every single PC in the company to manually log into their browser and change it...
With IE, you make 1 group policy change and voila.
Firefox is a better browser but theres no way I would roll it out in a corp environment. - bejayel, on 12/23/2008, -0/+8Yes, just destroy 60-70% of his visitors, thats a good idea. Just check for IE6 and bring up a popup telling them they need to update. Otherwise, let them be.
- vinceislegend, on 12/23/2008, -1/+8I am glad to see my parents and grandparents are not the only hardcore beta testers out there.
- gthyb, on 12/23/2008, -0/+7Did the submitter and the people commenting think the article was about IE6?
- tapo, on 12/23/2008, -4/+11People use IE because it's far easier to manage on an enterprise level than Firefox.
And make no mistake, though you may not use IE, IE 8 becoming standards compliant is good for the web as a whole. - charlesray, on 12/23/2008, -4/+11Are you people ***** retarded? Web sites don't work in IE8 BECAUSE it is standards complaint.
- inactive, on 12/23/2008, -8/+15The only reason why people would use IE, is because it comes with Windows. And sadly most people are too lazy to look for browsing alternatives, as long as the one they're using is good enough.
- bejayel, on 12/23/2008, -2/+9***** dude, i almost fell out of my chair. Proper good reply there.
- Chicory, on 12/23/2008, -7/+14"...most people are too lazy to look for browsing alternatives, as long as the one they're using is good enough."
If it's good enough, then why would someone need to look for an alternate browser? How does laziness even factor into that decision under those circumstances? If all someone does is check their hotmail and do an occasional google search, why should they be ashamed of using IE?
I use both IE and FF and to me your gross oversimplification of users' reasons for using IE seems strongly representative of the elitism of a segment of FF's userbase. "Oh, you use Internet Exploder? Pshaw, I'm going to ride my rocket dolphin to my career in space, you miserable peasant."
I am by no means arguing that IE is perfect. It's rather far from perfect. However, it does the job it needs to do, and that's what ought to be most important. - ArchangelZLT, on 12/23/2008, -7/+14The only reason I use IE is to download FF.
- doom777, on 12/23/2008, -10/+17I use IE8 right now, and I love it.
- Hortnon, on 12/23/2008, -0/+7Uhhh, they did. That's the problem, ironically.
RTFA - celotil, on 12/23/2008, -1/+7@kungphukenobi,
I used to have Firefox and Thunderbird installed on Linux and Windows, both using the configuration files saved on the Windows partition. I could even use the config files across a network.
You can't set up one shared directory that contains company-wide settings for various third-party programs, such as Firefox?
I don't know what to say except, wow, who is your boss and how do I get a job working in your IT department doing sweet ***** all every day? -
Show 51 - 100 of 278 discussions
The Digg Toolbar for Firefox lets you Digg, submit content, and keep track of Digg even when you're not on the Digg site. Download the official 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is