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221 Comments
- ViperDaimao, on 10/12/2007, -8/+160"Vista won't let pirates use advanced graphics features."
But Ninjas still can right? - ShaDoWwork, on 10/12/2007, -35/+97yeah that will stop them for like 5 seconds lamer wake up what product of microsoft do you think cant be hacked.........................
- chrono13, on 10/12/2007, -5/+62Did everyone completely miss the point?
This is major news. Microsoft says that for people who pirate the OS, instead of making it not work, they will just disable one (graphical) feature. They are piratically encouraging piracy.
Their other option was to have Vista not easily pirated. And I know "lol hax0rs will crack it in a week!" but there are some pretty draconian methods of registration and validation that they could have used - but they didn't. This wasn't to save the regular customers from the hassle, it was to let pirates continue to pirate Windows.
Statistics taken from the Business Software Alliance's 2005 piracy study show that 35 percent of all software in use is pirated. Microsoft has given numbers of estimated 40 percent of Windows is pirated in some countries. I imagine the number is actually higher.
With those numbers, you can see why the punishment for pirating it isn't that you can't run it - just a slight "no, you'll just have the regular base graphics (which is all the "Vista Basic" edition has anyway). Way to punish the pirates. That'll show 'em.
No. They want you pirate it. They want you to be able to easily play .wma and .wmv on your system and not have to think about proprietary licensing that goes on around it. They want you to surf to every site using IE7, and learn to love it because it is "good enough" and has tabs. And sites will be designed for IE7, instead of to standards.
If they clamped down on piracy in a way that they *could* (aforementioned draconian registration/activate/authentication), then there would be a percentage (even if just 2 or 3 percent) that would shift to Linux. Even a three percent shift in Linux that quickly would be a significant hit to Microsoft's market dominance.
So they made the choice that they will allow you to pirate Vista. And they are making it easy. THAT is the news here. - xerokitsune, on 10/12/2007, -10/+64Ya it kinda smells a bit like WinXP's SP2 keycheck.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -16/+56If you've been on the internet long enough you would know that pirates and Ninjas are natural enemies and COMPLETELY hate each other, I know, a pirate dropped a spoon once and this ninja totally flipped out and killed a whole town to get him, while wailing on his electric guitar
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -16/+56"Just incase, we need to gather up 12,000 dollars to put up as incentive to get somebody to crack it quicker."
... Why would you spend $12,000 to use windows illegally, when you can spend $150 to use it legally?
Anyway, why would they apply this great copy protection only to the aero portion of windows? Why not the whole OS? Do they _want_ people to pirate the base version of the OS? - samdu, on 10/12/2007, -5/+43It's not necessarily about hoping that the pirates are able to crack it. It's also about living in reality. And the reality is that it'll be cracked. No amount of effort on MS's part will keep it from happening. At some point you get to a diminishing returns situation as the developer. When you've expended more time and money trying to keep it from being cracked than is worth and that could have been spent on other things, you need to question your approach.
- MOGua, on 10/12/2007, -19/+53RODL (rolling on the deck laughing)
arrg - chrono13, on 10/12/2007, -2/+28"What exactly do Microsoft get if they let users pirate Vista?
(no irony here, I just didn't understand where they cash in)"
Pirates increase Microsoft's profits. To understand why, notice that there are two types of pirates: those who would not have bought Windows in the first place because it is too expensive, and those who would have bought Windows but now decide to pirate it.
The first category increases Windows' installed base without affecting sales. As a consequence, this group increases the value of Windows. And thanks to these pirates, Microsoft is able to set higher prices in the future (because the value of the system goes up). In addition, having these pirates means that Linux's installed base does not grow as much as it would have if piracy weren't there.
And that doesn't count licensing of formats (wma, wmv, and various others), web dominance (IE), and user base (applications are made for Windows, rather than Linux... think videogames).
Mind-share, however, is probably the most important. If I show you how nice and easy Ubuntu is, and that with Easy Ubuntu, you can have most "annoying" things about Linux fixed in minutes - you might at least give a seconds thought to switching yourself.
It is also called a snowball effect. If 10 percent of people used Linux for desktop use - they might set it up for their grandmother, or they might have a friend ask about it - and then you tell them the benefits. You get the idea. It isn't for everyone, but a lot of people have no idea that Linux can work for them, and think that they must have Windows.
Microsoft doesn't want that to change.
Cost does not equal worth. This is especially true of software. Microsoft never wants people to realize this. Thus, they will not stop piracy. - spyres, on 10/12/2007, -4/+27I believe much of the core of vista still dates from NT. And this reliance on trying for backward compatibility was one factor slowing the final release of vista.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+31Vista? Built from scratch?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Everything uses legacy code.
(Yeah, you heard me. EVERYTHING) - hchaudh1, on 10/12/2007, -3/+25What really irks me is this (from the article):
"The Aero display also won't be available to those who buy Windows Vista Basic, the low-end consumer version of the operating system. And even those with higher-end versions won't be able to see the fancy graphics if they don't have enough memory, lack sufficient graphics horsepower or have a graphics chip that doesn't support a new Vista driver."
Two things here:
1. The pirated version is equivalent to Vista Basic. Why do I need to buy Vista Basic again?
2. If I don't pony up cash for the hardware, I still get functionality which a would be pirate would get for free. Eye candy is good and all, but OS eye candy requiring horse power on which pretty much any 3D game can run, that's just crazy.
As someone else commented above, "Do they want us to pirate Vista basic". I would think yes. MS has historically been lenient towards pirates, the philosophy being, if you are going to steal something, steal out OS. That way, at least they can tie in the pirate to their own products and services. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+28"If you have a good enough system, what do you need to save resources for?"
Sloppy programmers LOVE people like you! - motorhappy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21"Just incase, we need to gather up 12,000 dollars to put up as incentive to get somebody to crack it quicker."
Cash 'prizes' for these kinds of efforts can actually slow down the crack process because people become more competitive and less willing to share information in hopes of getting the cash all to themselves. We know this will become a full-time project for many people without any monetary incentives anyhow. - jjk5, on 10/12/2007, -16/+34"... Why would you spend $12,000 to use windows illegally, when you can spend $150 to use it legally?"
Exactly. I just spent $109 on a legal copy of MCE 2k5 from NewEgg. I just got tired of all the crap stealing windows involves (bypassing activation, genuine advantage, changing product keys). When you get older it just becomes a pain and a hundred bucks really isn't that much.
I could understand not paying out of principle, but if you don't like MS that much there are alternatives. - DisembarkedOne, on 10/12/2007, -7/+25Software is much easier to hack then hardware, so you cant really compare this to the XBOX of 360
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15"It wastes system resources, I for one wouldn't use it anyway."
You are talking about the whole Windows OS, right?
;P - hater2win, on 10/12/2007, -13/+28"... Why would you spend $12,000 to use windows illegally, when you can spend $150 to use it legally?"
Well, I don't have to give $12,000. I could give 5 dollars, along with other people donating cash, and build up the $12k that way, is what I meant. - dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17"I love how the response is always that hackers will get their way in anyway, rather than hoping that such security measures DO work. Pirates don't deserve anything."
It's not a matter of hoping. It's a matter of being. People and consumers like us know better than the egos running Microsoft that this will be cracked in no time.
I, myself, am aware of a crack that works against Maya's authentication, which, if I recall, works very similarly to this, where you have to log in. - omnivector, on 10/12/2007, -6/+20except it actually does the opposite, it frees up your ram and cpu and offloads the graphics effects to the graphics card. So not only do you get these flashy effects for free, but they look better too.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+20This is a marketing ploy... They are challenging pirates which will make people want to upgrade to try to crack it.
I bet it will be easily cracked (but that was the intent), and now that you upgraded welcome to DRM hell. - deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17Good. If you want to use Windows, pay for it. If you don't want to pay, get Linux.
- zaofreek, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16So wait...if people with lower-end computers can't run Aero anyways, and if this is the only "downside" to running a pirated version, then what reason do those people have to buy a real version?
As for me, I'll be waiting for a stable version of Xgl/Compiz, and I'm guessing we'll see this before Vista is on store shelves. - stealthboy, on 10/12/2007, -8/+18.... going to be? You new here?
- GrinningFool, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16Built from scratch? What, exactly, are you smoking -- and can I have some?
- ph713, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17
Xgl is free, and is looking better than Aero anyways. - PrimoTurbo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Linux is not for the average user, even with Ubuntu. Basicly it's hardware manufactures fault for not releasing open source drivers and such, not allowing Linux users to use certain hardware properly.
Software companies aren’t that interested in mainstream Linux, so many games don’t have ports. Emulation isn’t nearly as good as the real thing and it’s complicated for the average person.
Lack of standards and lot’s of confusing articles and information, newbies find Linux frustrating.
OSX might be closer but it's too expensive and has low support with games. - mcbesq, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10The ability to run Windows.
- ,,|,_, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10That's fine, I like Classic Mode anyway.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+15Can I get JUST the new Vista kernel and use whatever desktop environment I choose? No?
*****. - deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Have you used Linux lately? Support for modern hardware is really good. Any Intel/Nvidia/Via chipset is going to work fine so you'll have sound, lan, video, firewire, USB, right off the bat.. Any USB mass storage device will work fine so probably 99% of camears, mp3 players, flash drives, etc are supported. Most wifi cards are supported either natively or with a Windows driver running with ndiswrapper.
Off the top of my head I can't think of a single peice of modern hardware that doesn't work with Linux. - philgmo, on 10/12/2007, -8/+14The thing I found most interesting was that legitimate users also won't be able to use Aero if they only have the basic consumer level of Vista:
"But it's not just pirates who will be blocked from Windows' fanciest graphics. The Aero display also won't be available to those who buy Windows Vista Basic, the low-end consumer version of the operating system."
Looking forward to what Apple has in store for Aqua in 10.5... - GraceMolloy, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12I give it about a week before that crap is hacked out. And yes Ninjas are cooler than Pirates.
- djdole, on 10/12/2007, -8/+14@ShaDoWwork
Did all of your comment's punctuation just melt and bleed to the end of your sentence? WTF? - sennmen, on 10/12/2007, -8/+14Instead of preventing pirates from completely using the OS, there are only worried about their precious Aero Glass? Next thing you know they are going to disable Windows Movie Maker if Vista is not activated.
- mistshadow2k4, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Those who are not running genuine Windows will not be able to take advantage of the Windows Aero user experience"
Translation: Those WHOM WE SAY are not running genuine Windows...
They've been wrong about that before. More than one person who was able to present proof that they had legal copies of XP couldn't get them reactivated or was unable to download updates because it didn't pass their validation check. So what to do if your legal copy doesn't pass their validation check? Absolutely nothing, you're just screwed.
People in this thread are talking like that never happens. Get a clue -- it does happen. It will happen with Vista too.
Now, with that aside, what's so great about an OS, already a huge memory-hog, that will be wasting yet more resources by running a validation check every time you turn around? For the love of God, why do people put up with this nonsense from MS? And then defend them? That's swallowing their crap whole and asking for more. - Kazbaeden, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10I love how when this story was on /. this morning, the comments were actually worth reading.
- crpietschmann, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11Vista built from scratch?? Are you kidding me! Do you know how long it would take to write an Operating System like that from the ground up?
- HiddenLYNX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5So, if i understand correctly, the illegal stolen version of vista, will run more efficiently than the paid for version because we wont need a dual 3 ghz processor with 4 gigs of ram???? NO WAY!, ill take the pirated version please!
- bieber, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Not only does XGL own Aero, but it's actually been released. And it'll be several releases into development before Vista is out...
- bieber, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5So in other words, your complaint with GNU/Linux is that it's made to be a powerful OS for people who know what they're doing, rather than something that anyone can turn on and (barely) make their way around. If you make it "user friendly" then you completely lose everything that's good about it.
- Wyzard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"Linux may be free, but i want to pay to run windows. Why? Because what you pay for is what you get."
"[...] And thanks to firefox, i never have to worry about spyware"
And how much did you pay for Firefox?
"Windows always works. Linux always has a few caviots and nuances that waste my time and id rather pay for windows than spend days getting my linux system up and running."
This has nothing to do with the technical strengths of either operating system, and everything to do with the fact that you have plenty of experience with Windows and very little with Linux. Windows has plenty of "caveats and nuances" too -- like the fact that you have an Administrator account by default so that spyware can easily install itself, or that you can't delete a file while a program has it open -- but you're accustomed to them so you don't notice them.
And... "Windows always works"? You've never seen it misbehave in any way? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+13"I just got tired of all the crap stealing windows involves (bypassing activation, genuine advantage, changing product keys). When you get older it just becomes a pain and a hundred bucks really isn't that much."
My friend, I don't know how you went about pirating XP, but you're doing it the wrong way if you need to worry about all of that :) - GhostFreeman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Fine by me, I don't want that ***** to begin with.
- Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Do us a favor and contribute on /.; you can even the score!
- dwemer, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7I would have turned off the "aero experience" after about 10 minutes anyway. The fancy graphics features on any OS just get in the way.
- drbroccoli, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Aero is ridiculous anyway. XGL on Linux and Mac OS's Quartz have about an 1/8 the system requirements and look better, in terms of design and sleekness (They don't look like baby toys).
On another note, when Microsoft suggests or says something can't be hacked, that means it may take a few hours. - slackerbox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Nearly 5 months into the 360 and still nothing..."
With a DVD-Drive firmware hack you can play DVD-R backups. I wouldn't say that's "nothing." - cg0def, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4well I can tell you right now that this won't stop anybody but the bottom of the barrel pirates. The corporate versions of Windows never require activation and those are exactly the ones that most pirates use. Those you really can't tell if they are paid for or not. Companies by tens of thousands of licences sometime and all those licences have the exact same serial number. Unless MS radicaly changes their protection mechanism nothing will stop pirates. Closing the door stops noone if the window is still open ( no pun intended ). Plus MS can't just put a new protection mechanism in place because it has to accomodate the needs of the big business ( the one that actually pays for MS's bills ). You have to think all possibilities out very well and the truth is that piracy does not hurt MS but it rather ensures its global monopoly.
- Sirfrummel, on 10/12/2007, -10/+14"It wastes system resources, I for one wouldn't use it anyway."
I, for one... welcome our new wasted system resources! -
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