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79 Comments
- Herolint, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27OK. I won't play.
As a developer, I can fully understand Microsoft's attempts to curb the copying of their software without their getting their money for it. On the other hand, as a user, I just don't want to jump through the hoops of it all anymore.
I have liked and used both Windows and Linux since around 1990 and 1994 respectively; however, in recent years, I find I don't really use Windows much at all anymore. Two of the main reasons are the slow speed of development and the long numbers you have to type to install anything. I hate that with a passion. Now, if Microsoft is going to have me using a system similar to what they do when I want to install Terminal Server, forget it. I'm not jumping through those hoops; period. - LunchMoney, on 10/12/2007, -4/+23Ha! Have you ever worked in a secure military environment? Windows is all over the place in the military. I've seen "secure ts" systems that still run window nt!
- fatdog789, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16Windows XP *does not* require an internet connection. Whoever told you that was retarded or spreading FUD or both.
- Rosewood, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Do you seriously think that somehow this is going to make anything cheaper?
- hellbent1363, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12"Little-know fact: digg has a spell checher. :P"
Oh sweet Irony - Sairgem, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11There's a difference between a long line of numbers and a password you set yourself and can type in quickly...
- invader, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13hmmmmm.... so the choice is to pirate and pay $0 or pirate and pay $300
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........... - dipswitch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10"Windows XP requires an Internet connection directly back to Microsoft just to make sure it doesn't stop working 30 days after you install it. ... Most any version of Windows after '95 is crippled without Internet access. "
It can be activated by phone. Which is the trick used to change the CD key. Also, Windows 95 is quickly crippled WITH an internet connection. Just think of the hordes of new script kiddies figuring out winnuke with a /slightly/ better Internet connection then we had in those days... - Trention, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12What's the saying, "if there's a will there's a way"?
I don't see IT people being thrilled at the idea of having to use a Microsoft Key Management server application to support Vista in the enterprise. And the pirates will still crack Vista. - itsnotvalid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9If they use the "Volume License", they don't need an internet connection to do the job.
- combatchuck, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10I can't WAIT for all this new ***** to come out so people will finally start porting games to Linux!
- adolfojp, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9"Little-known fact: the U.S. military doesn't do Windows."
Little-known fact: duality doedn't do facts
Evidence:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CG-48)
The ship was equipped with a network of 27 dual 200 MHz Pentium Pro based machines running Windows NT 4.0 communicating over fiber-optical cable with a Pentium Pro based server. - dipswitch, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8$300 bucks? No thanks.
http://shipit.ubuntu.com/ - n0xie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I don't think there is a MS product out there that hasn't been cracked.
- one2gamble, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6
Keeping track of how many OS installs your company has should be pretty damn easy, its not like half the company is trying to take OS cd's home on a daily basis. Most users wouldnt even know that windows doesnt come on a computer or that you can build one without it.
All this is going to do is create a larger headache and more overhead for most IT staffs which are normally over worked already - Daisuke, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5They won't be cashing in if the market they're attempting to grab (the people who would otherwise pirate it - the geeks) just moves away from Microsoft and begins using Linux or Macs instead. They've just shot themselves in the foot.
- r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Hmmm, yet another compelling reason for Enterprise customers NOT to upgrade to Vista. (As if they didn't have enough already).
- Kakaze, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6It's so funny how Microsoft would never've been able to dominate without the help of people using copies of their software taken from friends or downloaded from BBSes then the internet, and now that they are dominant they have to make for the legitimate users a pain in the ass just to screw over the people who got them their 90 percent market share in the first place.
When are companies going to realise that all these measures to stop piracy are just making the legit users less keen to upgrade due to all the hoops they have to go through? And no matter what new scheme they come up with it will ALWAYS be cracked. Even software which requires hardware dongles to run has been cracked.
Maybe if MS stopped trying to find ways to piss off their users with complex and archane forms of anti piracy they'd have more time and money to put in to oh, I don't know, actually getting their software out on time and with all it's promised features. - leviathan3k, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5willynilly:
Are you sure you're not thinking of Vista? OS X does a *fine* job of being usable without giving direct root access.
And it's not as if not giving direct root access is a bad thing, as it helps prevent the average user from doing destructive things without confirmation. - phlogiston99, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It is amazing how much confidence transpires from this simple explanation. It is pretty clear that Microsoft simply assumes that when time comes, corporate customers will be happy to buy the new version (Vista) instead of the old (XP, can't win2k anymore) and all will be well.
The only reason why corporate users follow the cheese is because they are scared to death to be left behind in the 'unsupported' bin. Even though, they locked themselves in with the MS business.
For corporate users, Windows 2000 was just as powerful, just as relible, just as good as anything else.
Software is not like cars. Cars wear out. After so many miles the engine dies, the paint fades, the seats get torn. It becomes a rust bucket and all you can do is buy a new one.
Unfortunately for MS, the industry (and unfortunately for the IT industry) is maturing. You pretty much can do with win2k, a 2GH processor and 1GB ram, decent graphics and an LCD in a $600 package.
From another angle, corporate customers might one day get tired of the poor security, attacks, worms, viruses, hackers, exploits directly directed at them.
We'll see what kind of backlash this causes. They tried it already with XP. It did not work. - Hubris, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The more you tighten your grip, the more .... will slip through your fingers.
- estvir, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5you saw them changing vlk licensing ? gosh, you're amazing !
- dipswitch, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7"which means you get exchange and outlook, a combination that can't be touched"
I agree. There isn't any FLOSS out there so crappy as Exchange and Outlook. Do the Hula: http://www.hula-project.org/Hula_Server - plasticated, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6So they don't have time to implement WinFS, and the laundry list of other features that never made it into Vista, but they do have time to totally overhaul the licensing system to stop people from stealing this late and substandard OS. I moved to OSX 2 years ago after 10 solid years of windows computing and I havent looked back. OSX doesnt even require a serial number for gods sake! M$, you are digging your own grave, and each day it gets deeper...
- tmcdigg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2well, it won't work, simply-- but what's more than that, they should stop efforts to keep patching the wga in xp and focus on vista! I hope the next generation of vista doesn't tolerate spam/viruses as easily, cause that would suck, and make hardware manufacturers have bad fiscal quaters as there will be le$$ of a reason to upgade your aging equipment!
- Daisuke, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Rosewood: you know, your tone about piracy really changed in that second reply. You sure you don't work for Microsoft or anything? Because paying money for ***** is worse than at least getting it for free (weither you're downloading pirated materials or FOSS ones), and lemme tell ya, you obviously haven't poked around with FOSS software. There's plenty of software that is not only compairable and compatible, but also more stable and customizable -- with a license that doesn't shackle you by the balls to Microsoft! What more could you ask for?
- ShyGuy91284, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3It doesn't sound completely bad. I work as a system administrator, and although I _know_ we have enough licenses for the 30 computers on site, knowing which has which license is a pain (I don't exactly have a Corporate edition disc here, so that's not an option). I didn't see anything in Windows Server 2003 computer properties regarding how to find out which computer had which key on a recent install, so I installed a copy lying around, and got lucky that it was unused. Windows Server gaining even more control over the install process (which this could lead to) would be very helpful to most admins I would think.
- ElectroBot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Except that the "laundry list" has some very useful things that MS decided to remove. WinFS was supposed to be faster and have better search capability (meta). EFI would of have allowed computers to be built without a ancient BIOS, thereby allowing the computer to be started faster with more of the services you use.
Just about the only things that we seem to see that MS has changed from XP to Vista is the Aero theme (no more Playskool?), the lack of Coporate key-less versions, a supposedly better DirectX, and the nagging app that asks if some other app is allowed to run/perform a certain task.
Why would 80% of the current Windows XP user choose to upgrade? - l0ne, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Vista's UAC dialogs run in a different desktop context than the current one. It can't be scripted except by something that has high privileges (and UAC would ask permission first if such a thing were installed).
- loveme4iamjesus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Can someone explain something to me. How can a company like (MS, despite their ability to do whatever they like regardless) change the EULA of WinXP as it chooses and for it to be legally binding to a person who bought a copy of WinXP and thus agreed to the original EULA previous to the EULA change?
- killroy42, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Personally, I tried installing a legal, bought copy of XP... it was much faster in the end to give up, download a pirate copy and have it installed without a keypress, or code, with all SP streamed in and some apps as well, before I even figured out how the damn activation is supposed to work... that XP is still boxed on the shelf collecting dust...
- tnvwboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2While I don't agree that the Action Pack should be used for 'pirate' purposes it is a good 'value'. Ok so you don't like paying nearly $300 for XP Pro? Well this gives you that and Office and most of the server apps for only $300/year. For home users it's probably a waste, but if your a Microsoft tech who needs to be up on current MS tech then it's a great deal.
No I don't work for MS, I just work for a small company who was able to take advantage of the Action Pack to get software that would have never entered this office otherwise, due to budget. And no, Open Source, would not have been an option. - Rosewood, on 10/12/2007, -8/+9Microsoft is getting better and better at thwarting these cracks. I mean, if you are willing to have a cracked OS and have to patch a DLL once every few weeks then sure ... go ahead. why not?
But it seems that with vista and office 2007, if you don't pay, you don't play. - xmuskrat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2If it is too much effort for Pirates to code cracks for vista, I sure hope those pirates decide to code actual functionality instead for a Free OS. I mean, if you can't crack them, crack them over the head.
- tnvwboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I think Microsoft will ultimately have to give up due to the backlash they'll get. The keys will never work, even with activation because they keys will be generated with key-gen tools. They aren't stolen from offices, they are generated automatically. How can MS keep up with that? They cannot. The only way they could do this is to MAKE users register with their Passport account or something. How bad do you think the PR backlash would be on that?
Every company/individual would have to have an account in Microsoft's database (great for marketing eh?). Those accounts would have to list which products are legally assigned to whom. How do you prove that person bought it? Through their VAR or retail box-top, who knows. Regardless, then when a key-gen or stolen key is used the VALID individual isn't punished the invalid one is.
But again, I ask, who is going to give up their privacy to Microsoft like that? We use all legit software here where I work. I cannot remember the last time I registered with Microsoft when installing Windows or Office. - dipswitch, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3So first they let people have it and now they're cashing in.
Ballmer will be pleased. - r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4@willynilly
"Year after year, they never learn. And thus they'll never be a factor in serious business environments."
I'd say "secure by design" makes it a very serious contender for the business environment, especially when ALL software assumes the user isn't the Administrator.
Yes, I'm sure you were just trolling for an argument, but the fact of the matter is that Vista has copied Mac OSX way of doing things and come up with a VERY POOR implimentation of it.
Mac OSX: If I want to delete an Application (when not an Admin) I put in my password once. If it's a SYSTEM OWNED file I can't delete it at all. Then just empty the "Trash" (no permissions needed).
Vista: If I want to delete a file (application would require an Uninstall) I have to click accept on a dialog about 3 times (not very secure, could easily be scripted). If I want to delete a SYSTEM OWNED file, then click accept about "5 TIMES" to actually delete (including emptying the trash). - leaknoil, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@adolphojp haha ya that was pretty funny. Windows NT crashed a ship. That has to be one of the top 10 things Microsoft would like to forget.
The ship had to be towed back into port. - Criterion, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Crackalicious :)
- TylerDurden0, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Not that I think my company will make a move toward Vista for several years (if it's ever introduced), but this will be a logistical nightmare. We have upwards of 10,000 PCs that we usually use an image disk to distribute the software needed per department.
MS should focus more on the timely release of their software and security of said OS before resorting to such measures to secure its bottom line. - tnvwboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My company uses a subscription based service for virus scanning from McAfee and we've loved it. We buy a set number of licenses, it tracks how many are used and on which computers they are on. Works like a dream. We've not had a virus hit our office since we started using it. It 'phones home' every day. It's not an issue for us because the benifits out-wiegh any potential privacy issues.
- Hubris, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3The move from Windows to Linux (so companies can continue to use 'standard' hardware) is at least equally likely as largescale moves to Macintosh.
- Daisuke, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4dipswitch has the right idea. if vista is just going to be locked down its easier at this point to switch to linux and stay that way with few troubles (rather than flash 9, but in time, in time..) instead of fussing with buying vista which may or may not even run on my computer.
- ElectroBot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I'm willing to bet that most LEGAL users of MS software would be willing to go to a subscription for any MS Software (Windows, Office, etc.) and have that subscription be created/renewed through MSN Passport as long as the cost of the software was significantly lower.
For example: If you use a computer for 3 years and MS Windows and MS Office cost $500 on that computer , then for subscriptions to work the yearly cost of MS Windows and MS Office would have to be at most $100 (which would still yield MS huge profits). Anybody who wouldn't want to have a subscription for whatever reason (privacy, hassle of renewing, etc.) would be able to buy MS Windows and MS Office for a lump sum of $500.
BTW. I made up the $500 amount but it and the $100 would be a good amount to charge for (from MS point of view) - tnvwboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Unlikely to make the software any cheaper, but being a license manager myself I can appreciate the added assistance.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3How activation is supposed to work?? Are you ***** retarded? It's a button, you click it.
- wtf00, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2how abot neither linux or vista... just tell them "hey stay with XP or switch macos"
- harry8227, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I understand Microsoft's reason for trying to combat piracy however they are ticking off their client base who are looking at alternatives. Entire countries have gone to open source and such. The more they do, the more they are going to loose. I guess the question is, look at how much money they have made based on the way things are and then ask yourself, how much money do they need to make. I guess the answer is all of it but then they wont get mine.
- Hubris, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Microsoft can always move to an install that requires 'phoning home' before the product is activated. At present you have some lengthy times before XP starts to hassle you about your registration...but there are plenty of software packages that simply won't run until you have activated them by speaking or connecting to the vendor. If Microsoft required the computer to activate live, it could refuse generated keys.
As you said, the question remains whether the public (and moreso businesses with lots of computers) would tolerate it. - darkfish, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I am no MS fanboy, but let me ask you a question: do you seriously trust the slipstreamed fixes and "extra" apps "helpfully" installed by pirates? Do you want to be part of a botnet?
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