What is Digg?184 Comments
- akira117, on 10/12/2007, -8/+83I'm not planing on upgrading to vista anytime soon, if ever.
Here's to hoping Linux gaming get more popular so the switch will be easy. - Phatt138, on 10/12/2007, -3/+68MusicalGenious -
Well, the issue is that Microsoft is working directly with the major media conglomerates to deliver a product that spends more of its energy on subjugating itself to overzealous copyright laws than to appeasing the consumer. DRM is nothing new, but system-wide DRM integration is an arguably new concept. To get the most from Vista (including out-of-the-box support for Blu-Ray and other 'enhanced' features) you'll have to purchase not only new software but new hardware as well. Even early HD consumers, who spent thousands (individually) supporting a burgeoning technology are out in the cold thanks to industry attempts to 'plug' the analog-hole (e.g. the HDCP technology foible that cost ATI a lot of credibility last year; they sold cards that supported said DRM format - but the format was changed, and the cards were nullified).
In order to bring support for these new technologies to the user, Microsoft was forced to bend to the will of the content distributors and adapt its new operating system to one that puts Big Business at the forefront of its concerns. Vista, like the enhanced DVD technologies and other proprietary DRM schemes, is an attempt by industry bureaucrats to lock the consumer into a cycle of spending that requires significant upgrades to enjoy new content. Do you really want to be forced to buy a new t.v. or renew the songs on your Zune because someone realizes that there's a flaw in the current DRM tech and comes up with a new scheme? Because - and let's be clear about this - that's sure as ***** what the industry desires. Hell, it's only because of early consumer outcry that Vista, in the end, allows you to upgrade without buying a new key.
I'm not decrying Windows on the whole; again, it's because they bend to corporate pressures that they're able to provide proprietary drivers and technologies out-of-the-box. Nevertheless, don't even TRY to defend the logic behind these supplications to the industry. It's pure favoritism. With Microsoft (as with - let's be fair - most businesses) the consumer comes dead last. - ajb2015, on 10/12/2007, -5/+61so...I won't be downgrading to Vista.
- goodoldharris, on 10/12/2007, -3/+48MusicalGenius:
MS has chosen to build an OS that disables the computers of their customers for the benefit of a handful of giant film and music corporations. That's not just meaningless anti-MS ranting. MS has forgot who its customers are. I'm not interested in an OS that sets out to restrict and police what I'm doing with my computer. I completely agree with the researcher in the article who calls Vista's content protection "the longest suicide note in history". MS will destroy its business if it continues to focus on building an OS loaded with DRM and other technologies that disempower users and restrict them from doing what they want with their computers. - CBTF, on 10/12/2007, -2/+43To Omalika
RE: Message
Thank you for your concern and your letter. We regret to inform you that we currently do not give a ***** about what you think.
For more information this product and product updates, please visit: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/default.mspx
-Microsoft (this is an automated message. please do not reply to this message.) - thedreaming1, on 10/12/2007, -5/+44The more I read stories like this, the more I want to not only switch to linux or even a mac running macosx, but sometimes, I just want to throw the pc out the window, smash my cellphone into 100 pieces and just walk into the night and not come back.
Technology is cool, when it serves man. It's not so cool when it's man that serves technology. - schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -7/+45Let's be fair to FreeBSD too. They are even more stubborn when it comes to snobby manufacturers and firmware.
- clickwir, on 10/12/2007, -5/+38I know a guy that had Vista RC2 and XP SP2 installed on identical laptops (granted not the most powerful machines, but typical systems within the past year) and would do similar functions of opening and closing things, viewing webpages, printing, loading software, changing settings.
Vista was much slower than XP, except when it came time to open a program. It was faster. But initally installing the program took forever. Installing a simple mp3 playing software took about 2 mins from start to listening to music on XP, it was still installing 10mins later on Vista.
I don't know why or if what the article says has anything to do with it. but it was really slow. And really, I didn't see the point of Vista. What does it really offer the user? It was slow and clunky. Yes we tried it with an without Aero visual settings. I see no benefit for the user with Vista.
All I see is it's going to break a lot of things and be slow, expensive and limit what people can do.
Kubuntu > XP SP2 > poop > vista - laceration, on 10/12/2007, -6/+38The astonishing white paper this article is about was on digg 5 days ago but only got 53 diggs. It deserves many times more, it's definitely fodder for discussion on digg.
Among the papers contentions:
-The overhead of Vista's drm schemes are a major choke hold on system performance.
-Vista is an attempt to lock down distribution of premium content much like Apple has achieved with music.
the original paper, written by an academic security expert--a ton of stuff there:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt - phaed, on 10/12/2007, -4/+32Ive been using the Vista RTM since the day it was available on scene torrent sites. I started loving certain things like the transparencies and the new explorer and search capabilities. Then little by little i started noticing that the system was not designed for me. The gadgets started becoming redundant once the "newness" factor faded. You ask me they are worthless. Most infuriating to me was that the system seemed designed for morons. I couldnt copy a file without clicking at least 3 buttons in three different message boxes for confirmation WTF?? imagine this. now imagine this when u are trying to get something done. Vista definetly was not designed with users in mind. Dont know what is going on over at redmond but it seems that what they got to start from scratch is not only their software but their entire development process.
Well the story does have a happy ending. Ive since reinstalled XP, which runs like lightning compared to Vista, and i am now happy tripplebooting XP, Ubuntu, FreeBSD(for the fun of it)
Vista == mistake - hobgobbler, on 10/12/2007, -6/+34Wait for what? The rapture? We might be dead by the time the next one comes out. There's no need to use Windows anymore anyway, suck it up and use Linux or buy a ***** Mac.
- Alphateam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+26This might be a stupid question and I apologized if it is......
But why does Microsoft care?
Lets say I try to copy a DVD....why does Microsoft care that I just screwed 20th Century Fox out of the 500th "alternate" version of Star Wars? - Ramtech, on 10/12/2007, -6/+32I've tested it... fully.. and let me tell you... i'll wait till they come out with another OS... Vista is a cpu hog and my music sounded like *****...
A note to everyone... just wait. - cquinnd, on 10/12/2007, -10/+36Has anyone actually tested the claims Mr. Gutmann makes, or is everyone too busy spreading the story to bother?
- toppgun, on 10/12/2007, -6/+32If I werent a gamer, I would have been on a mac months, if not years, ago. The only thing keeping me from switching is gaming and hardware, but overall I find the mac interface and use much better than windows
- lostczech, on 10/12/2007, -8/+29@mrwiggl3s
Oh yeah, use Vista and you will "get pussy" - FushBuck, on 10/12/2007, -7/+26I'm not a geek, but Vista sounds truely nasty in several respects. System performance decreases, increased costs for various "add ons" which used to be free, yuk. I'm switching operating systems and if the gaming manufacturers don't want to support anything besides windows, well, I guess I have better things to do than play games. Or I could buy one of those wii thingies you kids keep going on about. :)
- colto, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17@tardpicard
Your comment is void. He has just as much right to express his opinion as you are I. Trying to tell him he's not allowed to voice his own opinion is like.....DRM. ;) - foolfromhell, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18Because MS would rather you rip the Original version.
Han shot first! Bill believes it! - goldfyngor, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17I have performed testing and troubleshooting on Vista/Longhorn for about 2 years for work in every language available from MS on many different types and performance levels of PC and it is indeed ridiculous. This seems like a last ditch effort by MS to screw the public into buying their product. The hardware requirements are absolutely ludicrous! The benefits they boast are very AOLish with the user friendly target when in actuality, it is just as non-standard, proprietary and protected as ever before and in the end, is nothing resembling user friendly. Most "new and exciting" features are obviously ripped off from Mac, Firefox, etc. and other sources (I am not a mac fanboy either) and it seems pretty sad. I think the saddest part is that they are trying to force people into buying something that they absolutely do not need and will end up costing them soooo much more to run than ever necessary, and yet they will probably succeed as usual. It's just sad that everyone will probably give in eventually...just sad :)
- birdwatcher3000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15I'll stick to XP for as long as there is support for them. Besides, a new system will behave much better under XP since it's not the resource hog that Vista sounds like to be.
- cjpro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14TO Omalika
SENDER Worker Drone, Sector 7G, SNPP
SUBJECT Say Hello to Vista
We would like to offer you Windows Vista Ultimate for a special price of $ARM. If you would prefer, we could throw in Microsoft Office 2007 for just $LEG too. We are sorry you feel discomfort with our company but we take pride in setting limits on the user experience to protect them and their work. If you would like any further support, please feel free to send us the request number of your support case (included in the subject line of this header) and your first born and we will be happy to provide you with support that will get you nowhere. Thank you for choosing Microsoft. Remember, the limits are to protect you.
Also, on a side note, we like Apple. If it weren't for them, where would we get our ideas for Windows Vista?
Worker Drone
Sector 7G
SNPP
Microsoft
A--hole - cjpro, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13And it is the little things like this that remind me of why I am never going to put Windows Vista in a recording studio. I'm switching off of Windows XP and onto Mac OS X and Linux servers ASAP.
- ajb2015, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11I don't know about you, but I'm kind of sick of worrying about the next time microsoft updates windows and trying to find cracks and hacks. I'm not saying I plan to just buy Vista because I hate DRM, but I think I'll stick with XP for awhile until there is a mass exodus to Linux or Mac (I hope). I love PC gaming and I'm worried that I will eventually have to go to Vista to continue playing. At this point, the games are the only thing that keeps me from switching.
- Ramtech, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13@hobgobbler
I have both.. and i love both... but for those who cant afford a Mac ... usually use windows.. and those who use windows... are afraid of linux.... telling people to something is one thing... but teaching them how to use it is another.. - flr666, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11M$ doesn't care about piracy. They have been around long enough to know that it will never go away. They DO want a piece of the on-line content delivery pie tho and this DRM crap is there to placate the content providers.
As another poster mentioned above: The only users who will suffer will be the paying customers of the content providers. Piracy will prosper and the paying users will get pissed off and start pirating as well.
DRM is suicidal indeed. It used to be MORE complicated dealing with a ware than with a legit copy. DRM turns that on its head and the remaining 'honest' paying customers (many of whom are already paying 100+ bux a month for cable/internet connections - read: entertainment budget) will say ***** it and move to the path of least resistance for their media: Piracy. - ajb2015, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10There comes a time when you have to ask "is it really worth all the trouble?"
- cosm0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Although I am a Mac user, I really hope Vista does not turn out to be as it is described in this article. Because that isn't just bad for Windows users, it's bad for the computer industry as a whole. Imagine the disillusionment many users will feel when they find how ridiculously restrictive Vista is. The degree to which DRM is integrated into Vista has not been the subject of a great deal of media coverage thus far. So unless people are getting their geek on and reading tech oriented sites, they will be unaware of the downsides of Vista until they've shelled out all that money for a new computer or the retail version of the OS. I really hope that in practice Vista is not as draconian as it is starting to sound. Either way, now that I have the option of installing Windows on my MacBook Pro, I think I'll get a copy of XP and pass on Vista.
- demortes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10DRM is the software/code that prevents people from copying music, movies, software, and anything else that might come up. Windows Vista, according to this article, takes it to extremes to where it hurts the performance of the operating system.
As for the Zune, I'll stick with my Muvo MP3 player. - flr666, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Why do I need faster hardware than I have now simpy to run an operating system?
- hobgobbler, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11and removing their spyware for them is another too :P
- Jugalator, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10So much extra resource usage and annoying restrictions, when the pirated material will still be downloaded from BitTorrent sites where they have their protections stripped due to whatever reasons, like leaks from the movie industry or just plain stripped by the warez group. You'll then not be touched by this, because note these restrictions apply only to DRM'ed material -- it's DRM protections. So you'll still be able to play your mp3's or ogg's just fine in any media player on Vista, or unprotected DVD's, or unprotected HD-DVD's. And guess if e.g. The Pirate Bay will distribute content with stripped protections?
All this junk in Vista will then just lie dormant to pirates and as usual, as we've always seen before, the only users who see the real disadvantages are the paying ones. *They* will have the copyright flags set so e.g. the video quality is reduced if you lack HDMI, etc, just like they have ALL the fun annoyances to deal with if actually purchasing music from iTunes, while pirates are happily sidestepping all that crap, along with the DRM protections.
This is not considered a problem to either Microsoft or the movie industry.
Crazy world. - Istario, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9The latest Windows Weekly talks about this. Apparently, Microsoft had large plans for major DRM in Vista, but it fell apart and what is left is really limited. For once, we should be thankful Microsoft failed at something. The summary of the podcast was that this mostly affects businesses and not home users, but they go into much greater detail. A great listen.
The episode:
http://digg.com/podcasts/Windows_Weekly_with_Paul_Thurrott/112888 - GrayOne, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9First of all most of this sounds like bull *****, I didn't see any references.
I truly believe DRM will disappear. It will only take massive consumer pressure on the softwareconsumer electronics industry.
Basically when our collective mothers get pissed off because they can't watch their legally downloaded episode of Survivor on Vista Media Center because our $2000 LCD Screen isn't compatible with the DRM it uses and our sound card is 4 years old I am sure that the ensuing complaints, boycotts, and revenue loss will force Microsoft, Samsung, Creative, Apple, back into the consumers corner. - there, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10
I hope Vista is DRMed up the wazoo. They should add 2000 bit encryption and force you to have an anal probe administered every time you log on. They should also make sure you can't play music or watch a movie unless everything is preapproved by some RIAA or MPAA.agent monitoring you secretly via your webcam and mic.
Why? Because it will be the first real step towards the end of windows and when that ending comes it'll be all she wrote on the windows saga and more importantly closed source.
Bill really does seems like a nice guy on a personal level (with all that charity work) but MS needs to become just another software company. It's unhealthy for the software industry to have a monopolistic player like MS. It stifles innovation (e.g. IE after they squashed netscape saw NO useful development for several years), it's bad for business (whats the point of developing software if MS is just going to steal your idea and find a way to stick it in windows?), and its terrible for privacy (imagine how much monitoring is going on for the government and large corporate interests via closed source Vista)
Ubuntu isn't quite as polished as OSX and Windows but functionally if you take away the gimmicky bells and whistles its almost there. The only hurdle I can see for it now is hardware support and even that has almost arrived. All it needs is one "event" to turn off the public masses (like the Sony rootkit incident) and it'll be RIP. - ChewyBass, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7DRM imposes many restrictions as to what you can do, when you can do it, and how often. If you are married, then by virtue you are fully aware of the limitations DRM can place on the content that you rightfully own.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Until people realise this is not FUD but is based entirely upon MS specs and statements from companies involved in the tech industry.
- demortes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8If we didn't have companies like M$, we'd all probably be using open source for almost anything. Linux, OpenOffice, you name it. Yup, I LIKE paying out the wazoo for crap that can be dirt cheap if it wern't run by greedy bastards.
Yup, if only...
BTW: I'm not really a fan of open source all the time, however, I am poor... - bubba9999, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Linux will be sorely affected when hardware manufacturers lock the firmware genies up in proprietary encrypted code that can't be as easily/legally reverse engineered. Or are you planning to run your computer using existing hardware forever? You better start stocking up now then.
It would be nice to get some sort of public commitment from places like ASUS, AMD, and Nvidia stating that they will continue to produce Linux-friendly hardware when this snowballs. - Baseclass, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8I made the switch years ago and I'm glad I did.
For those of you on the fence, you just need to do it. You will experience a bit of frustration at first, don't let that discourage you. Once you get a feel for it you'll realize just how superior Linux is in so many ways. - GnuTzu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@jrbrewin,
I won't claim to know the true statistics, but there are people--whether they use open source or not--who make an effort to ensure that they are not violating copyright laws or licenses. So, your blanket claim is a little too absolute.
Surely, there are hypocrites out there, but I'm sure they reside on both sides of the fence.
But, even though there are hypocrites, I don't believe in punishing the innocent in an attempt to go after the guilty.
No software can be judge and jury, and no software can truly determine legitimate use from illegitimate use. As such, DRM will ultimately impede legitimate use at some level, resulting in a punishment of the innocent. - markthebum, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Yes, I agree. Isn't it ashame that the game developers still stick with Microsoft. I would switch in a second if Valve and Bethesda supported Linux. :(
- omalika, on 10/12/2007, -11/+17Dear Microsoft,
I don't like you.
Sincerely,
Omalika - TheWriteGuy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I'd like to think you will be right, but I doubt it. Apple has proven through iTunes that the public will take DRM up the ass so long as there is sufficient amount of lube.
- markthebum, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I am sure that the ingenious hacking community that brought us pirates through all the stages of XP, SP2, and WGA, can do it again. Thank you so much guys. :D
- drilldown, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I read license agreements.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=158
I just love finding someone in a fight. It's enlightening when you've gotta back it up.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=166
So he says.
What does Microsoft say? Just crashed my FF browser a couple of times with this PDF,
http://download.microsoft.com/documents/useterms/Windows%20Vista_Ultimate_English_36d0fe99-75e4-4875-8153-889cf5105718.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/19y
Either way, upgrade in order to be able to read the license agreement. I'm so not jellin Hehehehe - aristotle0dude, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6No, we are complaining that RTM is too slow and crapified with DRM restriction.
- stisev, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6If this is true, then I won't be upgrading to Vista anytime soon, despite my free versions.
- SeBBBe, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I should've gotten a Mac.
- mutatron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I'm still refusing to upgrade from Windows 2000! Sorry, some of my most important apps don't run on Linux.
Maybe all this DRM is just Microsoft is trying to not be sued by software makers for offering a platform that allows people to use software that didn't pay for?
In any case, I'll keep looking for Linux-based software that will do what I need, so I can get the heck off of proprietary operating systems. -
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