What is Digg?Sponsored by Dragon Age: Origins
Can't get enough Dragon Age: Origins? Check out new footage. view!
DragonAge.BioWare.com - EA presents BioWare's new dark fantasy epic Dragon Age: Origins. '9/10' from Game Informer.
121 Comments
- nord, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21This Paul Thurrott's article - http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp - has a pretty good summary on what is missing in Vista.
- NotParker, on 10/12/2007, -11/+27Windows PowerShell is available now to download for XP. What makes you think it won't run on Vista?
- estvir, on 10/12/2007, -10/+24- winfs, yeah, that what was disapointing, more so for bill gates though.
- monad was never intended for vista.
- tpm was never touted as a primary feature for vista.
- ngscb (i prefer the old name, palladium) wasn't necessarilly planned for vista, like tpm (similar things), it was just a project they were working on and has more or less been terminated.
- efi, yup, they ditched that which was disapointing.
so there we have it, 2 let downs, certainly not 'most every promised' feature & nowhere near as bad as people (like dwntwnboi) make it sound.
edit: nord just posted, i forgot about that article.
he basically just points out winfs & virtual folders (which is 'kind of' back in the latest build) & he mentions there are others but they are minor things .. once again, it's a let down ms has dropped some 'features' from the vista launch, but it's too be expected and it isn't very bad.
why is notparker being modded down ? he made a valid point, but even so, monad won't be released with vista. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16People don't hate IBM today you mean. Ask that question about 20 years ago.
Youngin..... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19jst because defender doesnt complain everytime you get a cookie
just cause defender doesnt complain that someone might break in and grab your folder settings,
doesnt mean it wont work.. defender was actually a very fine piece of software micrsoft bought from a company called giant.
Further MS knows that too many pop ups comfuse people,(ok maybe not with vista), they also know that alot of people want to keep some cookies.. SO it ignores everything that isnt a threat to mess up your computer.. BUt dont just trash a piece of software because of your untested claim it never finds anything...
at the same time dont praise software because it finds something everytime. - - sremick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12I got more excited about FreeBSD 6.1's release this week and Gnome 2.14 than I'll ever be about Vista.
- dobesov, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Yeah i get those people all the time... Though it might be the most evil concept ever envisioned... what those people really need... is for AOL and MS to team up and make the AOLOS. Nothing but AOL sitting on an NT kernel... Shell = AOL.
Oh god... it burns my mind even thinking of it! - evanfraser, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Dude, thats not a preview, thats a Mac and Linux bashing session. Completely biased and unfounded.
- adamkmccarthy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9to be honest, vista really sounds like xp sp3 with a new skin in its current form. Original features dropped from production, delays etc...it certainly wont want to pull me off xp pro in a hurry.
- Greyarea, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8"to be honest, vista really sounds like xp sp3 with a new skin in its current form"
Having used the 5308 beta I can say that you're not far from the truth. - Greyarea, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8(reads article)
Wow. As a work of humor/fiction, it's rather good.
If it's a work of fact then it's one of the most blatent examples of Windows Stockholm Syndrome that I've ever seen. - grizwald, on 10/12/2007, -10/+18people complain today how MS is the worst company ever and how all of their stuff 'sucks' ... even though they are bashing MS on internet forums via their Windows XP machine. It will be no different in the future. People will bash MS and claim they are the worst company ever, but they will be doing it on their Windows Vista machines.
yeah yeah, i know some of you have macs, but even you have to get a real job someday. - adolfojp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9"I lost all hope for Windows back when ME came out."
Then you will be glad to know that ME was the last of the 9x.
Windows 2K and XP are direct descendants of NT, and the NT series is a completely different OS than the 9x series. - Maverick83, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8That was by far the most ignorant rant about Vista/Windows/Linux I've ever read.
Someone who thinks Vista security is better than Linux hasn't used Linux. I used it for a couple of years solid as a desktop, and now have it running a server in my house.
As far as not having problems with XP, until recently I was using SP1 with no anti-virus for months solid. I didn't have a problem. Most problems with viruses and spyware is a problem with the user, not the OS. I realize this statement shows more favor for XP, but it's the truth.
I still don't have anti-virus, and I have a hardware firewall.
As far as Linux having no userbase, you're right, when considering Desktops. Linux has 3% market shares with desktops. One tenth of a percent less than Macs with a 3.1% market share.
But in the server market, it has 22%. And it's giving Microsoft a good run for it's money. MS has a 53% market share in servers, and it's shrinking.
So, 22% of the server market is Linux. You would say that's not worth attacking?
I used to be as much a rabid fan for Microsoft as you. Then I got curious and actually tried Linux.
EDIT: I rescind my "not trying Linux" statements, I see you have tried it. But you are still incredibly ignorant. - dobesov, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10@PowerCow
I agree! Having used Defender back when it was called MS anti-spyware, I can say it was one of the best Spy-ware removal tools out there. I used it all the time along with spysweeper and your general free tools. It did a great job. They took out (or maybe hid) some of the system tools anti-spyware had, but the scanning and removal remains the same. - ArchonMagnus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"Linux releases do nothing more than cosmetic changes for the most part. *Sure they fix other things* but..."
Linux is really only the CLI. The Linux GUIs are handled by the developers of Gnome, KDE, Enlightenment, Fluxbox, etc. for interfacing the CLI. Linux releases have significant updates in them--the most obvious typically is additional hardware support. If you are going to release a kernel and driver update, why not include the latest GUI updates as well? Read the release notes and you will see the error of your thinking. - .mark, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Well, I do agree that the "MS bashing" does happen a little more often than is needs to. However, it isn't as if the company doesn't deserve it. They've got big ideas, but can't execute many of them because when you get down to it; their operating system simply hasn't evolved enough over the years. I like what one of the previous posters said; "XP SP3", and as someone who has used the new system, I'd have to agree.
- frem001, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7aren't people bored with what microsoft is producing... their "me too" approach isn't helping either.
- msgyrd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Does anyone else think that the latest Vista screenshots just look like a Microsoft theme for Gnome or KDE?
Compare:
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/vista_bus_5308_01.jpg
http://www.cs.umu.se/%7Ec99drn/xgl/xgl-shot3.png
Wake me up when windows can handle this:
http://www.ossblog.it/uploads/xglshot1.jpg
Not to say it's difficult for MS, but that they're so behind the curve it's just not even funny. When free software is blowing past your bazillion-dollar company in terms of security, features, standards and hardware usage, you really need to step back and take a hard look at what your doing wrong. MS isn't going to disappear anytime soon, and it's OS has it's uses, but the company is headed in the wrong direction. MS is the jack of all trades and master of nothing. They have an OS, but it's mediocre, they have a console, but there's no strong reason to choose it over others, they have a search engine, but it doesn't do any better than google, they've tried the media center, but mucked it all up with drm (compare it to MythTV), they've monopolized the PDA OS market, and now our PDA have to be rebooted, they've proprietized mail with exchange servers and now my school's mail has outtages. The pump out flight simulators year after year (does anyone buy those?) and other mediocre games, while buying out any company that might pose a threat before it gets to big.
MS as a company has become to bloated and lost focus. They're actively trying to monopolize anything technology related and it's spreading them too thin. They havn't ever made a "good" product because they get too wrapped up trying to dominate the market. I don't want one company controlling all of my media experiences, I don't want one company creating all my software and I don't want one company to be able to bypass monopoly laws. Microsoft: Please retreat from your war on choice. Give us a quality product and the market will eventually sway in your direction. Quit securing dominance through contracts and instead secure dominance by user preference. Quit treating us as criminals (DRM schemes, Genuine Advantage, serial numbers galore, windows activation, etc, etc, etc).
P.S. Kudos to MS for producing excellent keyboards and mice. - nathanrobinson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6and what's funny.... ms took some peeps to court because of a theme for XP that made it look just like vista.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9Vista more secure than Linux!!?!? HA!!! NO DIGG FOR ELIAS!!! And don't tell us we need to know and manage Windows to get it to run right. I don't want to have to debug and fix photoshop in order to make pretty pictures
- Harlequn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Backwards compatibility was an issue when pc software cost $400 per app. People had a huge investment in software to worry about. Also this assumes that nobody wants to buy the new apps. Apple dumped Copeland when they saw it was all bad and came out smelling like a rose with a beautiful new OS.
- EdLesMann, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Mostly what ticks me off about Vista is that MS seems to have lost all originallity. They are no longer pushing the field of innovation. Heres a few things that will be missing, and a few examples of why I say they are no longer the "leaders of innovation".
-WinFS was mentioned earlier as being dropped, but the thing that gets me is that they dropped the journalling improvements. They talked about that a few years ago in the Dot Net Show. Yeah yeah, ntfs has journaling...but its crap! You still have to defrag dont you? Try a real filesystem, like one that WinFS is trying to immitate.
-Windows PowerShell (Monad) was supposed to be competition for *nix shells, and they had alot more planned for it (again watch the Dot Net Show for more info). They had plans for things like taking a stream, performing actions on it, piping it to a program (say for example excel) where it would open the program and let you modify the contents and upon closing the program it would return the contents to the shell. As a strong bash guy, thats AWSOME! I was itching to get my hands on it, and when I did I was very disappointed...its little more then bash 10 years ago...they completely failed at trying to get *nix converts with this one (I dont know anyone, *nix or MS or otherwise that thinks that this is a good product that lived anywhere close to its hype).
-vectoring. Yeah its going to have it, but KDE/Gnome has had some resemblence of it for a while and Apple had it long before that! Shoot, even 3 party people have started supporting it under windows because MS hasnt! (Adobe is one that has had it for a while). Not only is it old news, but they got rushed to get it working and so they pulled the processing off of the graphics card and onto the CPU! WTF? I dont want my CPU crunching the damn eye candy that I cant even disable! I dont play many games, so I dont care if my vid card is hard at work crunching eye candy, but NOT my CPU!
-Less reboots for updates. ABOUT DAMN TIME! How long has the rest of the universe had this? Pisses me off everytime I have to restart to install programs...
-Scaleable install. For many this would be nothing. As an administrator of Linux and Windows machines this would be awsome! I have several systems that run 2k GREAT, but XP struggles. I would love having ALL the windows systems the same OS. Even if some of the eye candy was gone, the base features would be there! Uniform systems would make my life SO much easier. But alas, it too was cut. (side note, yeah yeah I know "computers are soooo cheap now! just upgrade!" sure...as soon as you send my company the money to do so! They may be cheap but they are not free)
There are MANY things that were promised that will not be there or just dont live up to the hype. I was /hooked/ on the Dot Net Show listening to all the "great" features of longhorn...and they simply are not there. Dont believe me? PLEASE check it out!
http://msdn.microsoft.com/theshow/
I used to eagerly await our companies beta test of Longhorn to see how things were. Now, with the last beta, it was not even close to the promises/support/stability to get me to switch back off of Debian... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6spare me, besides, I wouldn't recommend Linux for my Mom, but I would recommend os x and she loves it too. ;) I'm sure you have an os x bashing article somewhere on your site you can spam for us.
- ArchonMagnus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5They couldn't *license* (for monetary gain) to end users then except under GPL. Thus ending MS sales revenue. They could charge for support though like Red Hat. Yes--I know you were being sarcastic, though.
- johnnyrotten, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Sounds a little like what happened with "Bob". It was over a year late, was still too hefty for typical systems, and really didn't improve things significantly.
- DudeMacfarlane, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@EgoDemens
Which distros sell pumped up/proprietary *distibutions*? I know of several that have proprietary applications/codecs like RealPlayer, mp3 codecs, etc. MS could charge for applications, but not the Microsoft Linux kernel. - crilen007, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9@nord
That article seems to take all the small silly things and bloat them as if they are a core part of the OS.
Windows Movie Maker?
The look of the windows? (which can be changed I'm sure)
The first thing he lists is "a Texas Hold-em game". I mean, these things can be changed/added. - kwilliam71, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Also known as "design by committee." My company does the same crap. People making decisions that about things they shouldn't for political and/or public relations. They lose site of trying something revolutionary that might be risky.
- estvir, on 10/12/2007, -22/+26can you honestly give an example besides winfs ? everyone goes around retorting how they've dropped every half decent and feature and go 'for example, winfs' then they disappear.
.. or even an example of 'every feature being dumbed down' ? - Greyarea, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5(quick [and possibly slightly inaccurate] recap of what Copland was)
Copland was Apple's attempt to build a cutting edge OS inhouse. Trouble is they had no clear focus and kept trying to get more and more features into it, and threw more and more manpower at it. It began to collapse under its own weight and they were eventually forced to ditch it and buy the new OS from outside the company. The first considered the Be operating system, but when the price of it went waaaaay up they went to NeXT...and the rest is history. - msgyrd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Wow Elias, your attempt to blatantly copy Maddox (maddox.xmission.com) only yielded a putrid site full of garbage. The "I hate everything"-esque site has been done. Please go learn some CSS and color coordination (blue on black hurts), and while your at it, try supporting your arguments when you rant about nothing. And I love your article title " Do you have a big dick? I don't. " I think it may really explain alot about where all this pent up angst comes from.
Simple inflammatory trolling is your entire site. It's like you went out of your way to act stupid. You should try harder to mask your trolling if you want to prevent getting buried into oblivion. - Rageous, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7@ PowerCow and dobesov:
Windows Defender is worthless. At my old job we were removing spyware and viruses on an average of 12-15 computers a day, and using a varied arsenal of about 14 different programs to do it. AntiSpyware Beta did a solid job of removing some odd ends, and worked great as a niche product. Whatever they did in the switch to Defender ruined that. It no longer detects anything the *good* programs do (like Spysweeper, Counterspy, Ewido and Spyware Doctor), not to mention any active protection from Microsoft in general was pretty useless.
That being said, I'm amused as all hell over the entire Vista debacle. For the longest time we joked it was really XP SP3, and that was back when they were expecting the complete feature list. Now it's actually the truth. A few security updates and a GUI tweak, a new operating system does not make. By the time Vista actually *does* hit (which I estimate will be pushed back again to March 2007), Apple will have jumped to Leopard 10.5 and be 3 1/2 years ahead of the curve, not 2. - soogy, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11I lost all hope for Windows back when ME came out.
God, why do they have to be like that? Instead of making an operating system which could run immensely faster on current processors, they put more and more bloated code into it to drive up sales for newer and more expensive parts.
Why? If we had faster operating systems today, all that missing processing power could have been put to good use. - zootm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"If I'm not mistaken, WPF is one of the features that will be available on Win XP as well."
This is an interesting problem. Most of the advantages to Vista, other than the Glass frontend, will not be visible to the user. Vista will be better in many ways, but the average user won't even notice. It's quite a difficult product to sell to non-techies for that reason. - headzoo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Regardless, Google is a bit out of line to bitch about MSN being the default home page in Vista. There *needs* to be some kind of default home page, so why not MSN? The idea of giving people a choice is stupid. I'll choose to switch the home page to Google when I finally get to install Vista. Most people don't know any better, so might as well have some default search engine.
- zootm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"From what I've seen, PowerShell is just VBScript extended to use the full Windows API."
Not the case. Monad has a syntax closer to UNIX shells, except it acts in terms of objects, rather than just text. It's based around the .NET Framework, and can call CLR stuff quite easily. It's most interesting because it's consistent and largely reflective (one can query about what a command can do without having to rely on people writing documentation and so on).
The development version has been available for download for ages, it's well worth a try out. It's very different in "feel" to something like bash. The tab completion is *terrible* though, it needs work. - ventaur, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You know...they dropped the whole code base, because that code base was the same one used to write Windows NT 1.0. I mean, we're talking about 16-bit code still embedded in XP right now. It absolutely needed to be scrapped and re-written. I say, it's about freaking time!
I would much rather they are delayed because they finally came to their senses about that original code base, than have Vista right now with idiotic Blue Screens simply to provide backward support for programs that I haven't used in over 10 years. If you still depend on ancient programs because your vendor can't write an upgrade for this century or because the vendor is dead; then do not upgrade your OS.
Feel free to hate MS, but how do you ever expect them to straighten out without tremendous shifts in their old ways of thinking? How else will they do a better job until they start firing the archaic IBM programmers from the 60's still complaining about how they were forced to learn C when they were perfectly miserable before with Cobol? - joeysixpack, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Sometimes I think that alot of the problem is backward compatibility. I know that is a can of worms we don't want to open, but if they had a version that was "Vista" only, get that working, working real good, then in 6 months release a version that runs older apps, they might get something out the door quicker.
- frankbardon, on 10/12/2007, -10/+13I'm currently sitting at my web development job (a real one) on an PowerMac G5. Every designer on staff uses a Mac at work and home. Also, every professional creative I know sans 4 uses a Mac at work. As do many scientific research organizations and sound engineers. Just thought you should know.
- Kazrog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Twice as much? Have you heard of Mac Mini? You get so much more for your money on a Mac, and their OS is clearly years ahead of Windows. You have to look at the whole package.
Linux isn't competing with Windows for the desktop space. Until they dump the X Windows engine, that OS will never properly serve typical desktop users OR creative professionals. It's still primarily a server OS. I believe that Linux has a lot of potential, but its UI engine is severely cumbersome. - HarryBauzonia, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Maybe they should stop trying to build it from scratch and just build their own Linux distro.
- dWhisper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I think the bigger fact to get straight here is that they did not, repeat, did not, drop the code base and start over. Microsoft flat out denied it, and the CTPs that were moved around didn't have the massive "rewrites" that were guessed on by the blogsphere.
The main misconception here was caused by the realignment of the "Media Center" and extender functions that were tied into base levels of Vista. Originally, there were 12-13 planned "flavors" of Vista, which has been slimmed down to 6 (or so).
WinFS was dropped from Longhorn very, very early in the lifecycle. Far before the Longhorn/Vista divide, in fact, so I'm not sure it could be called a missed feature of Vista. And some of the other things were delivered on, like DirectX 10 (being a re-write, not a tack-on), AeroGlass, etc. - jer2eydevil88, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If you want to really see XP fly turn off Cryptographic services inside services.msc (take note that some software won't install with this disabled).
I'd say it'll give it your pc a 60%+ snappier response in the interface, also applications will load faster. - pupkind, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"Here's a possible answer: complexity. Modern operating systems are staggeringly complicated."
That's plain wrong. This does apply to Windows, but the word is not 'complicated', but 'messed up'.
Windows is really unique in this sense. Consider its networking stack for example. Used to BSD at some point, but now it is a bloated inflexible monstrosity that looks more like a patchwork quilt rather than something lightweight and efficient, leave alone it being elegant. This is not the complexity, this is either a lack of design skills or a tendency to cut corners. Or both. - oneovernone, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6If I'm not mistaken, WPF is one of the features that will be available on Win XP as well. So given that, I don't think WPF will set Vista apart. Same with PowerShell. I can run it on XP.
- dipswitch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"You know...they dropped the whole code base, because that code base was the same one used to write Windows NT 1.0. I mean, we're talking about 16-bit code still embedded in XP right now. It absolutely needed to be scrapped and re-written. I say, it's about freaking time!"
You don't even know what you're talking about. NT started out with version 3.1, here look: http://toastytech.com/guis/nt31.html
The old win16 API is mostly emulated with win32 API under NT. It does NOT have all the ancient cruft from Win9x. As for "dropping the entire codebase", that would just be stupid. I mean, IE7 was built with IE6 (you can easily tell from the backwards compatible vulnerabilities). IIS7 was built with IIS6. Terminal Services, Server/client for MS networks, win/net logon, cmd, etc. etc. have all been improved upon, not rewritten.
I'm not trying to defend Microsoft (and I'm running Ubuntu), but atleast get _your_own_ facts right ;) - spectre_25gt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I hate to say it because it sounds so fanboyish, but look at OS X. That's built on a lot of open source code and they're able to charge a premium for the extra features. Cocoa, Quartz, CoreImage, etc. Not to mention the administration tools and things like iLife.
- headzoo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"Modern operating systems" ... "are far more complex than an Airbus or a jumbo jet"
I like that analogy. It helps put the whole thing into perspective. - shmatt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@technopundit
dude, you have just spewed every single pro-MS cliche argument there is... new to Digg?
I'm not even gonna answer you, you'll get enough when you actually spend some time here
you call yourself a pundit? Bah. -
Show 51 - 100 of 121 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is 
