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264 Comments
- Endemoniada, on 10/12/2007, -35/+891. Can't install Vegas, Photoshop, or Illustrator.
2. Pain in the ass to install something as simple as Adobe Flash.
3. Doesn't officially support the iPod.
1. Sure you can, just not natively. Blaim Vegas, Photoshop or Illustrator for not releasing Linux compatible versions. It's not Linux's fault that they don't work.
2. Yeah? Really? I don't know about you, but the last time I checked flash for Firefox was a simple "apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree" away. It's in the reps, just enable them and install. Couldn't be easier.
3. Are you kidding me? So Apple not releasing iTunes for Linux is Linux's fault?
Linux is not supposed to be compatible with Windows. It has plenty of ways to do whatever it is you want to do, whether it's flash, photo editing or handling an iPod. Just because you don't know how to do it, doesn't mean it's not possible.
And the ultimate statement:
If you don't like Linux, don't use it. Who's forcing you? Just keep your Windows and stay out of my way. Linux is about choice, even the choice NOT to use Linux. - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -11/+62Yeah, they have to fix the wi-fi. Broadcom wi-fi chipsets are the most widely used right now and Ubuntu doesn't support them natively. You have to use ndiswrapper, which sucks and barely works. I cringe when thinking about a noob attempting to get it to run, they're going to think Linux is crap.
Broadcom is primarily at fault here, not Linux devs, because Broadcom won't open-source the drivers, unlike many other companies that have. Not much you can do about that, but there should then at least be a warning about it, and a list of cards that do work, not a deceptive claim that Ubuntu "supports wi-fi." - nazadus, on 10/12/2007, -6/+42Ubuntu was the FIRST Linux distro to which my wireless worked (sort of) out of the box. What happened was that it worked on the CD, but on install it stopped. An update fixed it.
The lovely and wonderful thing was that it detected Windows and did the dual boot thing automatically. The evil and very bad thing is that every ***** kernel update, it whacks the Windows entry in grub forcing me to place it back in by hand. Scared the ***** out of me -- as I'm an .NET programmer and I use my laptop for work... While I still have it installed on the laptop, I haven't used it because I'm just not going to update it and have to go through that.
I'm about to try OpenBSD because they finally support my wireless chipset, so yeah.. I guess I'll see if it works as a desktop (I use it as a server frequently)...
I disagree with the parent poster on points 2 and 3 as the average Joe doesn't use those. Perhaps HE does, but the average Joe does not.
@ ObeKenobi
Doesn't matter whose fault it is if they want to compare themselves to Linux. People aren't going to say "ohh, it's not the dev's fault. I guess I'll use it anyways" -- no, they are going to say "oh, it doesn't do what I need? then umm.. why am I using it?". People don't care.
@ Others:
As far as the common person is concnered -- Ubuntu is an Operating System. Depending on the Joe asking, I may explain what a distribution is and what a kernel is and why Linux isn't a distribution -- technically; however Many Joe's just don't care enough about computers to really care. - ThugEsquire, on 10/12/2007, -60/+951. Can't install Vegas, Photoshop, or Illustrator.
2. Pain in the ass to install something as simple as Adobe Flash.
3. Doesn't officially support the iPod.
Until the Ubuntu developers get those three things worked out, average Joe isn't going to really bother with it. I tried switching to Ubuntu just for email and web browsing, but having to reboot to use creativity apps and listen to music (I want to use iTunes) was a pain in the ass. And while Ubuntu's install procedure works really well even if you already have Windows installed, it's a pain in the ass to configure GRUB so that Windows is the default OS if you don't already know how. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+35I'd like to see the operating system that you've made... you know the one without "garbage code by ***** programmers" because you must be a pro when it comes to coding. Until you make your own OS, go ***** yourself.
- mercurysquad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+23How is it a pain to install Flash.... if you don't want to type a command, then just go to Applications > Add/Remove, then type "flash" in the search bar (or scroll through if you dont want to touch the keyboard), check it and click Apply.
- Buelldozer, on 10/12/2007, -7/+28@ OBKenobi,
Wrong wrong wrong. My laptop has a Broadcom AirForce One 4318 Rev.2 intergated B/G/Bluetooth adaptor and it's supported NATIVELY (no ndiswrappers) just fine under both Dapper and Edgy.
I use it every day so I think I'd know. - bigtrouble77, on 10/12/2007, -5/+22I can't believe the amount of linux misinformation here. I feel like 90% of the negative ubuntu posts are from people that spent a few hours trying to figure things out, then gave up. You really have to look back to when you started using windows to truely understand that it takes a bit of effort to get productive in a completely new environment.
Now to address the points of the original poster, as other have done already...
1. This is a COMPLETELY unfair comment to make. It's like saying a Sega Genesis is a piece of crap because I can't play mario brothers on it. I have no idea what vegas is, but you can actually install photoshop and illustrator in linux. Plus there are linux native alternatives. Now where is my amaroK, bluefish and pan for windows???
2. This is another completely BS comment. Just because you never bothered to understand the linux file system doesn't mean it's a pain in the ass to install something. All you have to do is copy a plugin file to the proper directory. It takes all of 2 seconds. Why the hell would you want an installer that adds additional services to do such a simple job? Installers should be used for install applications, not single files.
BTW, using apt and synaptic is about the easiest way to install software ever.
3. Actually, linux does support the ipod. It's just that things are rarely 'official' in the linux community because it generally implies a legal responsibility. The only thing an app like amarok does not support is DRM infected files. That's not linux's fault, that's apple's fault for being anti consumer. I'll prolly get dig down just for this last comment from the apple fankids.
One last thing... I had to setup a .NET development machine this weekend. Never worked in that environment before. I had to install about 20 patches on my win2k vm manually just to satisfy dependencies, then it took me hours of searching google to find work-arounds for known problems. I'm finally about to have everything working well, but it was an absolute bitch. I can setup a linux web server with php in under an hour from scratch because that's what i'm familiar with. People simply hate being out of their comfort zone, myself included. If people give linux a bit more of a chance and try and break some of their bad windows habits, then a lot of the misinformend comments posted here will go away. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18"I have tried the Automatrix wireless setup program which is supposed to solve this problem but even it was flawed and gave me numerous scripting errors and no added solution."
You might want to try Automatix there Neo. - Endemoniada, on 10/12/2007, -7/+23@warbird:
Thank you for proving my point. Linux is an OS with a totally different focus than Windows. To then cry and whine about it not doing everything exactly like Windows is just stupid, because you're missing the entire point.
If you want Windows, then use Windows! Don't use Linux, because obviously you don't want to use it. No one is forcing you to use Linux (that, of course, doesn't mean you don't have a right to complain when things don't work. But complaining that it's not 100% compatible with Windows is just plain stupid).
Linux does everything Windows does, but not necessarily in the exact same way. Photoshop? Just use GIMP instead, it's as native as can be. Winamp? There's atleast 10 players native to Linux I know of that does everything Winamp does, and more. - Buelldozer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16It's threads like this that make me realize that 90% of computer users are morons with the attention span of of a housefly. Their computer is one of the most power and sophisticated 'appliances' that they will every buy and they are willing to invest zero time and energy in learning how to actually USE it.
- Inhibit, on 10/12/2007, -15/+30No offense, but you might want to research a subject before writing on it. While it's perfectly reasonable to not use Ubuntu for lack of supported hardware, at least look into it enough to understand *why* it's not supported before *writing* on it.
Namely that the hardware manufacturer won't allow the developer community to support it.
So. In conclusion. Before writing a couple pages of meandering rant on why Windows is horrible (it's not) and how much you'd love to use Ubuntu if it weren't for those pernicious but easily fixed driver issues (they're not)... find out why there's no driver on the CD that came with your card from the manufacturer.
This is what journalists should have... a clearer grasp of a subject than those reading your article. Unless having said grasp would negate the article in question, and you're just trying to spew out a few pages.
Also, if those paragraphs get any longer you'll qualify for a Stephen King Writing Award. - RobertBIrish, on 10/12/2007, -54/+67I can do a fresh install of Ubuntu in an hour and have everything working, Flash, Java, watch DVDs and listen to MP3s. The only thing I can't do in Ubuntu that you can do in Windows is Play the games that is the only thing!
- someguyouknow, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15I blame the person using the computer.....
- TonyCubed, on 10/12/2007, -7/+191) They are Mac/Windows Applications which ain't native to the Operating System, they can't be blamed for this.
2) Depends how you install it, I start up Firefox, visit a Flash website, install the plugin and it's done?
3) Well, ain't sure who's fault is that, could be the Developers or Apples fault. - Felion, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Amarok is a fantastic alternative to iTunes, and it supports your iPod without too much effort
- epileet, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15I really think the person writing the article should have taken more time to actually learn how to use ubuntu before complaining.
- archlich, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Yes it's much easier to work at a job for a few hours, get enough money to pay 400$ for vista than it is to learn how to apt-get your-mp3-player-here. clearly.
- grumpyrain, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12
1. Can't install Vegas, Photoshop, or Illustrator.
1. Sure you can, just not natively. Blaim Vegas, Photoshop or Illustrator for not releasing Linux compatible versions. It's not Linux's fault that they don't work.
I totally agree (with the article) that Ubuntu still has a way to go before Joe Average can figure out how to install a new wireless card or share a printer. While the finger can be pointed at hardware companies for not releasing Linux drivers, Joe Average doesn't make the distinction. To them, you can't use wireless on Ubuntu without being an expert.
But on point 1, Thug has got it right. If Adobe don't release a Linux port of their software, there is nothing Ubuntu could do about that. There are some alternatives to the listed software, and although generally these lack all the features, they may have enough of the features Joe Average needs to do their work. If Adobe sees they are losing customers, that will trigger them to develop a port. In the interim, Ubuntu should develop Joe Average friendly instructions to install Photoshop etc through Wine.
2. Pain in the ass to install something as simple as Adobe Flash.
2. Yeah? Really? I don't know about you, but the last time I checked flash for Firefox was a simple "apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree" away. It's in the reps, just enable them and install. Couldn't be easier.
Thug, I am pretty sure you just proved his point. You need to understand how it is done in Windows. Joe Average is told when they go to a page that they need flash, click the link to download the installer, and double click it. You can be a windows user and never use the cmd console. That is what they are expecting, now you are telling them to go and play some online sodoku game they need to jump to a terminal window and type in some mystery command.
3. Doesn't officially support the iPod.
3. Are you kidding me? So Apple not releasing iTunes for Linux is Linux's fault?
Linux is not supposed to be compatible with Windows. It has plenty of ways to do whatever it is you want to do, whether it's flash, photo editing or handling an iPod. Just because you don't know how to do it, doesn't mean it's not possible.
I agree that Linux is not at fault here. In fact, iPod is just a mass storage device, so I don't see any problem using one. - archlich, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Each linux distribution has a self consistent software install mechanism, so don't clump all Linux as one entity.
emerge, apt-get, rpms, etc - pufuwozu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Ubuntu is an operating system.
What do you think a Linux distribution is? Linux is a kernel, GNU has a heap of utilities, GNOME is a desktop environment add everything else and you get an operating system.
Hell, an operating system doesn't need all that. A Linux distro could still be considered and operating system if it were just the Linux kernel plus some vital GNU utilities.
Linux distro = Operating system - vh1`, on 10/12/2007, -6/+141. not ubuntu's fault.
2. ubuntu uses Firefox 2.0 as its official browser. and isn't it just a simple case of going through a few dialogs to install flash.
3. officialy: no. works just fine: yes - Endemoniada, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13And I don't want to use .rar, .zip, .exe, .msi, .7zip, .cab or any other three-letter combination to install my Windows software. I'd much rather have it at a simple "apt-get install " away. Wouldn't you?
And as for .deb and .rpm... Debian and Red-Hat are two different Operating Systems. Would you expect Windows and MacOS installers to be compatible? No? Well then, go back to your cave, troll. - UltimaNut, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11"1. Can't install Vegas, Photoshop, or Illustrator.
2. Pain in the ass to install something as simple as Adobe Flash.
3. Doesn't officially support the iPod.
Until the Ubuntu developers get those three things worked out, average Joe isn't going to really bother with it."
Since when does the average joe use Vegas, Photoshop or Illustrator???? - Endemoniada, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9So Linux is harder because you don't know how to use it? Wow, what a surprise!
You don't think Windows would be just as "hard" if you knew how to use Linux, but not Windows? - Wootery, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9@people discussing wireless
If they ever address this, I hope they include the WPA support too - I couldn't get that to work, and I'm not going to use crackable-in-ten-minutes WEP, so even though Linux worked fine with my (Broadcom) chipset I couldn't use wifi. - Endemoniada, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Linux is about choice, even the choice not to use Linux at all. As soon as people realize that they don't HAVE to use either Windows nor Linux, we'll all be a lot happier.
In the end, using an OS is about getting things done. How you do that is ENTIRELY up to yourself. If you're more productive in Windows, so be it. If you get things done faster and easier in Linux, good for you. Just don't tell me or anyone else what to use, because it's not up to anyone else but myself to decide. - warbird, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@Endemoniada: Well, it seems everyone wants linux to do the same as Windows. It seems theres another comparison article on digg frontpage every week. I use linux, as a fileserver, and webserver. It works great as such, so dont tell me I don't want to use it. But you can't use linux for, for example advanced audio editing and mastering, because the applications just arent there(please dont say audacity). So I use Windows and Mac for that.
And this is why Ubuntu and Linux is imperfect(Tho I'm not saying there is any perfect OS either). You can have a perfect core, but without the apps, the OS just isnt gonna cut it in some areas. - Cl1mh4224rd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Endemoniada wrote: "2. Yeah? Really? I don't know about you, but the last time I checked flash for Firefox was a simple "apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree" away. It's in the reps, just enable them and install. Couldn't be easier."
Right, so, umm... How is the Ubuntu newb supposed to know that he needs to enable the Universe and Multiverse repositories first?
Sure it's easy... if you already know how to do it. - Buelldozer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6System > Administration > Synaptic Package Manager > Network-Manager > install
Done. - Haplo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8"And the ultimate statement: If you don't like Linux, don't use it. "
It's exactly that statement that's wrong with a major part of the OSS community. Instead of listening to what's wrong, and finding a solution, you first hear a long story about free this and that, choice, alternative, better, etc. And if you have complaints, the first attempt is to ignore them, and if they are serious, you are told to go (or fix it yourself).
It doesn't matter if an issue is a "Linux" issue. The community should just find a solution. Even if a third party is to blame. This has been done before often enough to prove me right.
GNU/Linux/OSS is good enough for a lot of people, sadly a part of their community isn't. - zugu, on 10/12/2007, -13/+19Would you then be so kind to tell us what is it?
- Buelldozer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Well instead of typing "sudo apt-get" perhaps you should use SYNAPTICS for Gnome or ADEPT for KDE. They're only installed BY DEFAULT with either Ubuntu or Kubuntu.
I've spent hours googling looking for WINDOWS drivers. Once the driver disk is gone some drivers can be very difficult to track down. - illu45, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7@Phocion55:
Using the American Heritage Dictionary definition, an operating system is:
"Software designed to control the hardware of a specific data-processing system in order to allow users and application programs to make use of it."
I'm not sure how Ubuntu fails to fit this definition. Ubuntu also fits the he Webopedia and Hyperdictionary definitions (which I won't post here because they're too long) as far as I can tell. You've stated that Ubuntu isn't an OS, but haven't explained why, instead talking about how much of a learning experience it is to try to compile your own kernel from command line. As you're trying to disprove a popular belief (Ubuntu is an OS), you're going to need some stronger evidence than that, I would say. - Endemoniada, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7You know, Windows destroyed my MBR so that I couldn't boot to Linux. Boo!
With Linux, destroying the MBR is at least just a bug. With Windows, it's a feature. - NOFXY, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Google easyubuntu. If you really just even tried a little it would have come up to you. I'm new to Linux and when I encountered that same problem it was quickly and easily solved with a Google search. Didn't really take me more than 2 minutes of my life.
- BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"Linux defenders are hilarious.
I can't think of a more pathetic and nerdy thing to be passionate about."
It's probably slightly less pathetic than spending your time and energy voicing your indifference to things.
If I had nothing better to do than join conversations between other people and say "I'm apathetic, I don't care about the subject of this conversation, omg yawn", I'd probably end it all.
I'm passionate about OS development and I consider you pathetic and nerdy. You are now recursively pathetic. - Cl1mh4224rd, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8bigtrouble77 wrote: "All you have to do is copy a plugin file to the proper directory. It takes all of 2 seconds."
See... this is the problem with Linux "enthusiasts". Where do you get the plugin and what's the "proper directory"? And why do you expect others to implicitly know this? - Nerevar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The whole codec problem is one issue that the Ubuntu team is trying to make easier. It's not their fault that things like this are so hard, it's the fact that these things are proprietary and have restrictive licenses, and that is why they cannot be included by default.
- Taorluath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Ha Ha! I have Ubuntu myself (Xubuntu) and it works great for me. At first the wireless didn't work, but I actually TRIED to fix it, and I did. Thanks to Ubuntu's great FORUM it was really easy to make it work.
I find there's nothing can't get working. If you're using dapper drake, EasyUbuntu installs Flash, Java, Mp3 capability, and tons of Window codecs in a super user-friendly GUI. The whole thing takes like 2 minutes. I've had no problems with it so far.
By the way Epileet, I couldn't agree with you more. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -14/+18I'm always amazed at articles that keep blowing this crap out there.
Linux isn't for everyone. Who said it was? It's for folks with brains who don't mind figuring things out. If all you want to do is sync your iPod and visit iTunes, then screw off. Go find something easy enough for you. Don't bitch about it because you can't figure it out.
Teejmeister, WHY do people giving you free support have to kiss your ass too? That guy is right. Do your f'n homework, don't waste people's time until you have made an effort to work it out yourself. The folks who answer on Ubuntu support forums have spent years of their lives learning about linux, why should they then jump when a lazy ass calls for help on something clearly documented or can be solved with a search? You get the same type of response on ANY forum when you ask stupid questions. Let's see you get better support from MS. Give 'em a call. - bonked, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@jarland
You know if you don't assume that users find pointing and clicking easier you would find that often the command line is easier for them.
Case in point - which is easier to do over the phone with a typical user?
To find out their Internet connection settings through 7 windows and clicks and pretty graphics, or tell them to click start > run > type cmd > type ipconfig(space)/all and read what it says.
The problem is M$ has crippled their command line so it is for the most part worthless, especially compared to the competition. Also, there have been many recent studies based around Ubuntu with people who have never used a PC that have found that using the command line makes more sense to new users and is easier to grasp as well as being faster.
And along the lines of TFA, AVERAGE JOES ARE JUST AS LOST TRYING TO INSTALL A WIRELESS CARD IN WINDOWS! I know I deal with them all day long every day, most can't understand why "PASSWORD" is different than "password" and Linux has much more "out-of-the-box" support for hardware than Windows.
What does average Joe user do on the PC? Surf the web... Check e-mail... minor Word Processing... possibly a budget... and heck once in a while a game of spider solitaire!
For a windows PC from Dell, Average Joe is looking at: $369 for the PC (Windows included), which jumps to $448 to add MS Works suite (for that budget, and word processing functionality), now they need the Anti-virus protection, let's say $19.99 for that, and a good $20.00 for some decent spy ware protection, - now take away the cost of software and assume that Dell pays $20.00 for Windows XP HE, now we have a $349.00 PC, add Ubuntu and just like Windows someone at Dell to make a master image that works with that set of hardware, and out of the box you have saved the user close to $140.00, and given them the same functionality they would have had - and they would likely never miss any of the "features" that most of that would visit a site like digg would ever need worry about. - Endemoniada, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6A bad alternative to Windows is still that, an alternative. And until someone proves to me that Ubuntu is that much worse, I'll gladly keep using Ubuntu because frankly I don't give a damn about you and what you think. Ubuntu just works for me, Windows doesn't.
Use what's best for you, not what someone else *tells* you is best, mmkay? - downlo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5dylanrush -
You couldn't be more wrong. The article talks about how the writer was looking for a free operating system. Free as in beer. Linux (the kernel) is free as in speech. And I cannot think of anything to be more passionate about then free speech. - sameerb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Cant install photoshop in Ubuntu?
Is it because something is wrong with California that Niagra falls is in New York? - GooberPedy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6If your looking to install these things use Automatix2 for the ipod use Banshee and gtkpod and flash can easily installed. For photoshop and illustrator use wine. As for vegas i had to google to find what it is. If you want to try an new OS without deviating from the programs you currently use get a life. It's like a linux user complaining about the security on windows which is not the same if you want to drive a different car you get used to the interior if you aren't prepared to change don't be so short sighted and inflexible either be prepared to change or don't change at all.
- Nighthawke, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The wireless issue is an general problem with *NIX. There are plenty of people having problems installing and configuring WLAN's in LINUX help forums.
I myself have been hard at work installing and configuring a Belkin PCI WNIC in my system. So far i've been successful in building a jammer that locked my router solid. - Buelldozer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+31. Simplified Driver Installation - Installing drivers needs to be as simple as installing software on Windows or better.
It already is. The problem isn't getting the driver installed it's getting the hardware manufacturers to give you one in the first place! I can install a printer driver in 10 seconds flat, a video driver in less time than it takes to download it, drivers for my soundcard are trivial. Installation is easy, getting the driver is the hard part.
2. Cross-Distro Application Compatibility - Apps which might run on Ubuntu must also be able to run on Red Hat, SimplyMEPIS, TurboLinux, SUSE, and etc.
Okay, name me an app that works on one version of *nix but not another? I'm just not aware of any. Firefox, GiMP, KDE, GNome, Koffice, Xastir, shoot anything that works on one *nix platform has, or can be, ported to another one!
3. Gives Apps Sensible Names - Some apps in Linux can have some of the strangest names and this will confuse and confound the average Mom & Pop computer user. Simplify the names of apps so they sound like codenames or acronyms.
Sure, but this one is awfully subjective. Frankly the Windows universe has it's share of names with no meaning or that sound dumb. Tell me, without looking it up, what do Adobe FrameMaker and Adobe InDesign do? How about Ashampoo? What the hell does 'limewire' have to do with sharing files exactly?
4. GAMES - A standardized cross-distro graphics...
We already have one, it's called OpenGL and it's been around for YEARS. Perhaps you've heard of it since ID seems to make all kinds of games using it.
5. Embrace Standards-Work Together - One of Linux's strongest assets is the number of different distros there are, and its also one of its most fatal flaws.
I'll give you this one.
So, you've got one point out of five that was valid. You fail, please move on. - smartalecks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3EDGY EFT = Cleaned up code,
FEISTY FAWN = Cleaned up look? - Rikkochet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You're not being picky, you're being a tard.
For ALL intents and purposes, Ubuntu is an OS. If you don't like the shortened vernacular that that implies, you're in for a sad, frustrating life.
Ever heard of Xerox? Ever heard of xeroxing? Yep, it's now a verb. To xerox something makes no sense, because it's a product/company, right? Well tough *****, it's ubiquitous enough so that the anal retentives among us can still cry and punch themselves in the crotch, but "the people" know what they're talking about.
Sorry, get used to it. What people say isn't as useful as what they mean. Just be happy when they bother to use proper grammar and spelling. -
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