What is Digg?145 Comments
- leszek, on 10/12/2007, -4/+101users will not be apt to disable UAP but they will learn to click on Allow as fast as possible without reading.
- puffarthur, on 10/12/2007, -3/+70Very insightful and brutally honest. I am impressed (Thurnott usually comes off sounding like a MS lackey).
- paolonorte, on 10/12/2007, -1/+48and isn't that every man's dream
- foolfromhell, on 10/12/2007, -5/+40Next u will hear "Gates upset about Windows Vista because his computer cant run it"
- schwit, on 10/12/2007, -2/+33He flays Vista but good.
He describes Vista's user account protection(UAP) as annoying. This is incredible since Apple and Linux have had this capability forever and MS could've used their systems as easy examples to emulate. I expect users will be apt to disable UAP as soon as it gets to be too much of a hassle. So much for security being a reason to buy Vista. - albrad84, on 10/12/2007, -3/+25I actually think Paul is one of the more balanced tech writers, despite people's perception. He may focus on microsoft stuff, but he's never afraid to bash them and praise apple (or the reverse)
- TheJenks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23Well after being so disappointed with the last 3 test builds I didn't download the latest. Im glad Paul is saying what we have all been reporting back to MS for ages. They haven't once listened to us.
- Takteek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+22@ leszek
You hit the nail on the head. - the_snitch, on 10/12/2007, -5/+25I dont trust his journalism, he often throws little tantrums at the spur of the moment about little things. Remember that one article he wrote telling everyone to boycott IE. and then two days or so later he followed it up with an apology after many people pointed out how ridiculous his little rant was.
And then he bought an intel iMac off the mark when they were announced as he heard rumors that they would run windows. Afetr buying it and being disappointed as he couldn't run windows, he sold it again. And then narf and co. soon got windows running on the iMacs. And then Apple released boot camp beta.
Thurrott jumps the gun once again. I have no respect for this guy. - rauz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19They've had six-seven years...what makes you think they'll be able to fix these major flaws in six months, not forgetting they have to be in rc long before that in order for the pr people to be able to do their part.
- deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19Paul Thurrott is definitely a lackey but I agree with him 100% on this. Windows is becoming Microsoft's "Spruce Goose" They need to cut their losses and develop a truly next-gen OS or simply embrace Linux. I know it sounds hard to believe but the Linux community has proven it can scale to include thousands of developers and millions of users. As long as Microsoft can continue to control the GUI & user space apps it would be a non-issue. Most people wouldn't even realize they were running Linux underneath it all.
- laddr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17Wow, powerful stuff, Paul Thurrott really goes off on MS here, very unlike him, but very true reading and interesting. I agree with him 100%...
- hchaudh1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19Oh come on now. This is like the 3rd time I have come across "but its a beta" excuse by MS apologists today.
- DaffyDuck, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17This section is interesting...
"The bad news, then, is that UAP is a sad, sad joke. It's the most annoying feature that Microsoft has ever added to any software product, and yes, that includes that ridiculous Clippy character from older Office versions. The problem with UAP is that it throws up an unbelievable number of warning dialogs for even the simplest of tasks. That these dialogs pop up repeatedly for the same action would be comical if it weren't so amazingly frustrating. It would be hilarious if it weren't going to affect hundreds of millions of people in a few short months. It is, in fact, almost criminal in its insidiousness."
I can forsee a lot of really annoyed individuals. I hope they change this. If not, I hope we never switch to Vista.
By the way, I've been following his writings for quite a while and I am amazed to see this. I hope this is a wake up call for MS. - elioty, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17Everyone seems to "agree with him 100%," but did anyone read the conclusion? Is it just me or did he sort of flip gears at the end there? He's going on and on about these terrible features that they've poorly implemented, and, all of a sudden at the end says that "Windows Vista actually will exceed Mac OS X and Linux." I guess I see the point he was trying to make, but it just seems like an unusual conclusion given what he had just spent 5 pages ranting about.
Or maybe thats just the sign of a true MSFT lackey. - STDOUBT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15"Three years from now, Vista will be the dominate OS, replacing XP. Linux will still be in the realm of the non-conformist alter-reality, and Apple will announce the end of it's OS line."
Thanks for the chuckle ;] - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15The reason that UAP is so damn annoying is that Microsoft is just NOW trying to put milti-user type security on top of a system that is totally developed to be used by a single person with full access.
Without serious amounts of totally re-doing who lots of parts of the OS and many applications behave its just gonna be a kludge. - STDOUBT, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16This article reminds me:
"Those who don't understand UNIX are doomed to reinvent it, poorly."
--Henry Spencer
Anyone waiting for Microsoft to "get it right",
...is wasting their time. - wilf_brim, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15RTFA. The reason that he dumps on the UAP isn't because it is there. He dumps on it (correctly) because it alerts you to everything. This is what we call in my buisness an unacceptable false positive rate (or insufficiently specific). It screams about everything. And (as above) when this happens the users will just click thorugh everything, thus making this tool virtually useless.
- DaffyDuck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12I agree. The article has two sides. Most of the article describes how horribly bad many of the biggest new features are. Then at the end he turns around and says it's still good and better than OS X. I really wish he would have gone into detail about which aspects of Vista are better than OS X because I am honestly curious to know what his thoughts are there.
Anyway, I think he does a turn-around at the end because he wants to maintain a relationship with Microsoft so he realizes he cannot be too critical. - funkytaco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Quote from article "Here's the good news. In Windows Vista, Microsoft is indeed moving to this kind of security model. The feature is called User Account Protection (UAP) and, as you might expect, it prevents even administrative users from performing potentially dangerous tasks without first providing security credentials, thus ensuring that the user understands what they're doing before making a critical mistake. It sounds like a good system. But this is Microsoft, we're talking about here. They completely botched UAP.
The bad news, then, is that UAP is a sad, sad joke. It's the most annoying feature that Microsoft has ever added to any software product, and yes, that includes that ridiculous Clippy character from older Office versions."
UAP is more annoying than Clippy, the paperclip????! OH GOD. - g00n, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15I agree, I have a new respect for Thurnott. He previously seemed to be nothing more than an MS lackey. I'm very suprised to see him biting the hand that feeds but its refreshing.
- SPNKrPunk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Thurrot has a real problem with unsupported claims in his introductory/concluding paragraphs. This is not the first instance of that mistake, either. Look at what he wrote for other articles that concentrate on Mac OS X. Both the introductions and conclusions have unsupported claims, often amounting to "you've done a good job with this, but you still suck and I hate you!!!"
Its highly annoying. - hchaudh1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Turns out he didn't wait a few days to deny the article as he usually does. He just tagged his MS cheerleading stuff at the end of the article.
From the conclusions piece in the article.
"It some ways, Windows Vista actually will exceed Mac OS X and Linux, but not to the depth we were promised. Instead, Windows Vista will do what so many other Windows releases have done, and simply offer consumers and business users a few major changes and many subtle or minor updates. That's not horrible." - filmo, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16I've become majorly disheartened with MS over the past few months. After promising the moon on a stick when Longhorn was first announced I was pretty disappointed to see the state of the more recent builds of Vista. I truly can't believe they expect to ship this in ~6 months as their first major upgrade since late 2001. I really thought they'd get their act together on this one and blow everyone away the way Windows 95 did. Of course what bothers me more is the lack of an alternative - too much use of OS X makes me feel sea-sick and after using Linux derivatives for three years I've grown bored and want something that 'just works'. Looks like it's a de-themed Windows XP for another five years then...
- kalphegor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Glass Windows, only a red close button distinctive?
And that mouse pointer, the white arrow is the same since Window 9x..
"Feature complete, my butt" - Qdub, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11uhhhhhh, just ONE exmple
http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/ - bradbeattie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Sorry to say it, but the chances of MS adopting Linux are nil.
- Rigbymatt, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15Thurrott almost sounds suicidal. its scarey
- hchaudh1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Actually people don't, only MS lackeys do. Ever seen Google betas.
- ThePhilomath, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17Well it is a windows supersite .... and I frankly don't agree with you. He's a pretty fair guy; he likes Mac's and he lets it be known despite working for windows.
Yes there's a spin to his news, but what news doesn't have a angle it works from? Do you think Apple lovers aren't biased? - monkeyrun, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12Don't worry a thing, the Article's Title is "Where Vista Fails" 2 days later he will publish another article about "Where Vista Fails kicks MacOSX's butt" and 4 days later he'll publish anohter article about "Where Vista kicks Linux's butt".
it's Thurrott he's probably just staging some "dramatic" turn around for vista. - frem001, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12ouch bad idea for a company to piss off its users and developers
- 1010011010, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Five "pauls"? Sheesh.
- jer2eydevil88, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I love how angry he seems to be... Many Apple users get this angry when Apple breaks compatibility with a new OS update but its unusual for anyone to get this peeved at Microsoft for making changes to the OS.
- steger, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10I've never seen Paul so disappointed.
- StuGazzO, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10And now for the token Oliver Stone conspiracy screenplay:
GATES
Paul, I want you to write an impassioned, hateful article about Vista. Tell everyone how it sucks and how we as a company suck. And that things just suck, suck suck!
THURROTT
Why would I want to do that Bill?
(Bill tilts his head down, peers over his nerdy glasses and gives Paul a dirty look for being so informal)
THURROT
I'm sorry...I meant "Why would I want to do that, Lord Vader?"
GATES
Paul, Paul, Paul. My young and naive apprentice. When are you going to learn the Microsoft way? After all these years of OS releases?
(LETS OUT A DEEP HEAVY SIGH)
First we hype the ***** out of the OS, then we polish and pimp the demos, then we slowly but surely remove what we knew we couldn't deliver until finally...
THURROTT & GATES (IN UNISON)
We copy Apple!
GATES
That's my boy! I've been doing this since I sandbagged IBM!
THURROTT
But I'm still confused; why the scathing article?
GATES
Because it won't suck as bad as you're going to make it sound. It'll suck a lot less. You'll sound like a raving jack-ass and Vista will surpass everyone's lowered expectations. I like to call it: "Over hype, under suck".
THURROTT
Genius!
GATES
(THROWS ARM OVER PAUL'S SHOULDER)
Come on, let's go drop some flaming poop bags from the WinCopter on Larry Ellison's house. - asdfer, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12"Windows Vista actually will exceed Mac OS X and Linux."
Which Mac OS X? 10.0 10.1 10.2 10.3 10.4 10.5 10.6???
That's such a cop out.
Anybody else can easily argue that Mac OS X 10.6 WILL exceed Windows Vista because it'll be released AFTER Windows Vista.
Doesn't matter what Thurrott is saying, he seems to prefer Microsoft. All the backhanded complements Thurrott gives to any non-Microsoft products. "This product is great, BUT it's not as good as Microsoft's......."
To think that Leo Laporte is going to start a podcast with Paul Thurrott is somewhat appalling. Thurrott does not belong in TWiT.tv! - Hyperion, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10@sbstewart: Intel didn't "team up" with Apple. Apple simply became a customer of Intel and now use their Core Duo/Solo processors in their newer computers. That's all there is to it.
- fatcat, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1110 bucks says M$ pushes back Vista another few month because of this article
- trunkster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Wow, I wonder how he likes linux since he bad mouths both windows and os x.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -20/+26meanwhile back in the real world...
- vpisteve, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I used a WindowBlinds Vista skin for a while, and he's right, the transparent window frames were, in a word, horrible. Pretty to look at, but just plain awful to use, for the reasons stated. It was impossible to figure out what was what when you had windows stacked on top of each other.
I closed the wrong window countless times, until I finally got so frustrated I uninstalled the whole thing. Back to regular XP Royale for me. - Jozer99, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I agree, this definitely proves he is no MS lacky. However, I disagree with him on several counts. The glass theme is not bad at all. People tend to click on the window they want to use, when they want to use it, making "focus" pretty unecessary, a relic of the non-multitasking days of Windows 3.1.
Plus, he downplays as "minor" the huge overhall of the Windows video, sound, and driver architecture, that will improve performance hugely for 3D acceleration, and also for sound recording (the reason Macs dominate in music studios is Core Audio). Hopefully, it will also mean huge improvement in stability, even with not-so-great drivers.
Perhaps security dialogs are a nuisance, but so is getting a virus. Making it harder for programs to get administrator privildges is something Windows really needs. I'm sure they will reduce the number of dialog boxes as Vista moves from being tested by engineers to being tested by consumer focus groups. However, we will all have to learn that sometimes dialog boxes are what keep us safe. Anyone who runs Mac OS X or Linux can vouch for that.
Vista is a shell of its former self, I will agree. I was looking forward to WinFS. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6which will come first
duke nukem forever
windows vista
or google os? - mr.hostility, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6He well admits he's an MS Lacky, his f'ing site is WinSuperSite. Nobody is surprised by the fact he wouldn't admit Apple has a better OS. But he did a pretty flattering review of OS X Tiger if I recall correctly, and he mentioned MS ripping off Spotlight.
Is he impartial? No. But is he usually pretty fair, I think so. But I do agree that Vista will still not catch up to nor surpass OS X Tiger or Leopard. - quoigonfishin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I can't understand how he can say this. He writes an entire article about what a huge disappointment Vista is and then he says it will exceed OS X and Linux. How? Early on Vista did promise some features that are not available in OS X but they're having a hard time delivering on any of them. Besides, Thurrot even admits that the features that MS has copied from OS X and Linux don't work nearly as well to the point of being completely frustrating. Also when you consider that Leopard will most probably ship around the same time (or before) I think that statement is little more than wishful thinking.
- Kypt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I agree, I'm an OS X user myself, yet have played w/ Ubuntu on my PC and it is REALLY good. Very easy to install, very easy to install applications, very stable and its looks are not too shabby. I installed it for my grandma's pc a while ago and she likes it. (Of course she's not installing anything, she just uses it for email, web browsing, and a few other things but it works).
- Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6From the conclusion: "Windows Vista was Microsoft's first chance since Windows 95 to reach for the golden ring."
What about Windows XP? XP was the big shift to an NT-based (read: real) consumer operating system (previous versions were barely more than graphical shells for DOS). Sure, the UI was hardly an improvement, but the reason XP has hung on for so long is because it really is "good enough", unlike previous versions. - embraceware, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6He refers to Panther because he is talking about the year 2003 in that paragraph... "It was PDC 2003 (see my review) and everything was right with my world".
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