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- plasmatic, on 10/12/2007, -18/+74Mozilla is the one who needs the help? Shouldn't it be the other way around?
- dtrinh, on 10/12/2007, -2/+46Its honestly the smartest decision for Microsoft.
They can't really buy Mozilla (knock on wood) - but, to be quite honest, ffx has been regarded for quite some time as the much better browser. Heck, even some PC hardware suppliers distribute Firefox as a default browser. There's no real reason for Microsoft _not_ to work with Mozilla.
In the end, it just gives the end user an even better browser to use. - mfratt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+45I think this is a very good move on both the parts of Microsoft and Mozilla. If nothing else, it will imporve Microsoft's image among the more technical crowd. Some expected Microsoft to make Firefox less operable on Vista, and they have done just the opposite. No matter what their reasons for doing so, kudos to Microsoft, and thats not something you'll hear me say a lot. As for Mozilla, cooperation with MS is a big plus. It means people will be more motivated to use Firefox if it supported by Microsoft.
- Paktu, on 10/12/2007, -5/+38Embace, Extend, Extinguish.
- smiley2billion, on 10/12/2007, -2/+27Meh, Firefox is open source. I don't think they can kill it.
- Scruffydan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19Its also the better decision for mozilla.
The better Mozilla runs in Vista the more viable of a browser and email client mozilla will be able to provide. - szelij, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14I often wonder about Microsoft. They don't make money off Internet Explorer do they?
Then as a businessman, it's perfectly logical to let outsiders develop an web-brower for you FREE OF CHARGE thats constantly updated...i mean really, why bother with things that don't make you money?! - forgottenred, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12options. If Microsoft wants its OS's to continue to be successful it has to keep with the "works with everything" image.
- razei, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Even if IE had decent standards support, I would still take Firefox over it any day. I like my [heavily] customized browsing experience, and don't wanna pay $29 for an extension via ieaddons.com that I could get for free on Firefox.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16shows to prove that everyone has a price...except for jack bauer
- Aiwanei, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I think you are forgetting the whole netscape fiasco microsoft had. At the time, at least I found netscape to be the superior browser, but microsoft would not play ball. The reason why? competition. Competition is what drives markets, if all buisnesses were just saying oh your product is better, lets help you make sure it works with us, we would a.) have a severe lack of innovation and b.) and a lot fewer startup companies.
Don't get me wrong, this is a really smart decision decision by both firms. Microsoft gets a some good PR, and Mozilla doesn't have to spend extra time after the release of Vista to get their code up to snuff. - pixelmixer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9+ its open source.... so what does MS really have to lose from making it compatible? Its not like they're buying Mozilla or anything. And if they lose IE users to FF, whats the big deal, they'll at least still be using Windows.
- cubbieco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10I think you may have missed the browser war when it was fierce. There was a point with Netscape 2 that updating IE to 2 (maybe 3 I don't remember) actually overwrote some of netscapes files making it inoperable.
Your comparison is flawed. Microsoft has never tried to kill hardware drivers. Microsoft has tried to kill other browsers.
So when Microsoft does something like this it is natural for others to be skeptical. - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Simple, portability. If everyone uses IE7 then Windows has a monopoly on the OS by default since IE7 doesn't work natively elsewhere. If everyone starts using Firefox then it makes it easier to switch to OSX or Linux.
MS are doing this for the PR but secretly they'd like to see Firefox die.
Or maybe its an indication of a potential move away from the OS market and into a different one. Given VM's, web apps and app houses developing specifically for portability it will soon be the case that the OS will be irrelevant for all but a few specialist areas. MS must surely try to make other areas their focus but the question is when. - alahiri, on 10/12/2007, -8/+16Recall what happened to Netscape.. Microsoft played nice with them for a while and then crawled into its heart and broke it into pieces...
Same is going to happen with Mozilla. 2 years from now IE will be the only browser again in the market.
Never beleive Microsoft.. at least not from its history. - Haplo, on 10/12/2007, -11/+18"Mozilla is the one who needs the help?"
You really think that Mozilla code is perfect? Have a look at how history is stored (It's called Mork: the format was a brain fart of someone who probably shouldn't be programming, ever). - Lifestory, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9was there a mentioned about war in regards to this whole event? try not to hype up on something that isn't there.
it's a cooperation to help ensure interoperability, which i believe is what community needs badly to provide good content and function to a wider target audience. - chubbymidget, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7And they were never seen or heard from again....
- apotropaic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Its kinda part of Microsofts job to help make sure popular products are useful in Vista. They are working with all sorts of software to make sure its compatible with Vista. Because people wont swtich if their favorite program doesn't work and MS knows that. And... Microsoft in this case != IE7. Weather or not courts or MS believe it Microsoft really should be a few different companies. And in this case its not like its IE7 developers helping Mozilla developers. Its Vista (OS) developers that are helping.
- IcerC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"The offer includes help with the Thunderbird email client."
So Microsoft invites Mozilla to team up with their open source team to work on Firefox and Thunderbird?
I can see Microsoft supporting Mozilla, but helping to steal people from ie and outlook?
I am STILL confused. - babbling, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7wistar,
They should stop trying to exclude users of non-Microsoft software. This means (unpatented) open standards to allow interoperability between users of Microsoft software and users of other software.
For example, they should document the MS Word file formats. Another example would be providing a legally-binding promise not to sue people for implementing software that can play Windows Media files.
I don't think Microsoft has a moral obligation to make their software Free Software, but they should stop sabotaging interactions between people. If my friend uses MS Word and I use OpenOffice, Microsoft has no right to prevent me from fully communicating with my friend.
If you agree, please check out:
http://digg.com/tech_news/Ask_the_BBC_to_support_Ogg_Vorbis_Theora - atmofunk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7respect
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Lets be fair MS have lots of experience with memory leaks ;).
As for MS learning Acid2 trickery from Mozilla, have you seen Firefoxs attempts at Acid2. To be fair Mozilla have quite rightly ignored Acid2 up until now because its a very strict test and they have other things to deal with and they are good at current standards. Aren't they targeting Acid2 success for Firefox v3 which will come out in the first quarter next year. - Reddog_x2000, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Maybe I missed something. What's in it for Microsoft?
- Escamillo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4How old are you, twelve?
I'm glad that Mozilla's devs are a lot more mature than Mozilla's fanboys are. - skunkman62, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5are you kidding, netscape did it to themselves. remember communicator? a pos bloatware.
- MisterCookie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4If they include Firefox with Vista, the internet will be saved ^^(if they hide the IE icon that is)
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4As long as Mozilla stays open source, I cold care less.
- mike503, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5why would they NOT accept an offer?
oh and @reddog: microsoft gets an image boost, too. working with open source instead of against it. - homerhomer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3####### Prediction #######
* Microsoft shows Mozilla how to work with Vista. The new integration makes Mozilla cause browser havoc just like IE.
Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer.
- MalDON, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Very smart. Gives more power to Mozilla. This is a great sign of the success of Firefox.
- orgasmatron, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Yeah because competition is horrible...
- radiofrequency, on 10/12/2007, -8/+11"While IE7 is said to be more secure and follow the standards more"
Someone this clueless can only be getting a paycheck from Microsoft. - kevgig, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Finally! Thanks for someday making my life, as a developer easier.
- WiseWeasel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4IT'S A TRAP!!!!
: P - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Yea and Apple needs to just make portable music players and forget about computers, OS, etc.
- jpyun, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Learn to reply fool.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4MS are only one entity financially. The corperation is run very much as a series of mini-empires. Generally the Office team do not see the Windows team. This is why Office can be so great when Windows can be so flawed, there is no mind sharing between the teams as such.
Anyway given this they can fully focus on each of these diverse areas. - mjpatey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4muikano, you're certainly entitled to your own perspective. You mentioned "the dominoes clicking"... you must be playing with custom, extra-tall dominoes, because the gaps between them are pretty wide.
I guess we'll know more in time, but for now I can only see this as a good thing for everybody. Sorry, not buying your wild theory. - noGoodNamesLeft, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Regardless of whether this is ultimately a good move or not, given MS's behaviour in the past and repeated displays of bad faith, it would be incredibly naive to automatically assume that Microsoft are Just Being Nice and that there are no other issues to consider.
- noGoodNamesLeft, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@GMorgan; Most. Stupid. Insular. Comment. Ever.
Do you really think that if Firefox were (for whatever reason) deemed illegal in the US, it wouldn't hurt its support or development, nor its support from various websites who suddenly had far fewer people using FF and hence less reason to support it? - havuk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Opera *did* get invited.
http://my.opera.com/dstorey/blog/show.dml/419834 - IcerC, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Not so fast! What about Opera, Redmond?
- someguy9, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3they shouldn't have done that, Microsoft is just going to screw them over
- wistar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I've said it before and I'll say it again: Netscape screwed themselves when, at the peak of their popularity after the release of NS4, they made the incredibly idiotic decision to re-write their codebase from scratch and didn't release anything for 3+ years. Microsoft coasted to a win. MS did not set out to destroy NS but got very lucky because NS did something unconscionably stupid.
Read a little about this travesty here:
http://joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html
http://joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000027.html - superterran, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It seems to me that if Microsoft is trying to shy away from the insecure Win9x codebase, and that's including ActiveX, then they will never be able to do that until people stop using ActiveX, vbscript and the flakey IE custom tags. Microsoft can't possibly strip out support for all of this at once, as that would destroy the notion of 'backwards compatability'. If Microsoft could get Firefox past the threshold of 'eliteness' and propel it into the ranks of a defacto standard, then practically all websites that use that crap will stop so it will work in Firefox. Then, Microsoft can start designing online services that are platform independant, and then Microsoft will be a step closer from getting out of the OS game.
Microsoft isn't a company full of idiots, they know that alternate platforms are starting to reach the critical mass required to unearth their stake, and they know that in order to survive, they have to have software on those platforms that people can't live without (Office and Media Center IMO). The best way to do that is through online services, and the first hurtle of that is to have a unifed standard for this platform. The W3C is just as good as any.
Microsoft has already won the internet, and now all Microsoft has to do is win it's users. I think that's what's going on here. Microsoft wants Firefox to pull ahead, so Microsoft can lock everybody in on proprietary web based services. I don't think Microsoft makes enough money on OS's to justify how much it dumps in to them, I think Microsoft would rather evolve in to a company more like Apple meets Novel. Who wouldn't? If Linux is free, and you don't have to pay developers, wouldn't you rather find a way to cash in on that instead of competing with it head on? - shawnanigans, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Well because FF and TB are open source even if Micro$oft; just kidding its Microsoft; buys Mozilla, people can just pick up right where they left off and create Foxyfire and Lightningbird. It makes it a bad business move for Microsoft to ever buy a popular open-source company.
- superterran, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Microsoft has won the internet, at least in the only meaningful way - IE is the browser to beat, and it's also the browser we code for. I'm a web developer, In my small oceanfront town, the 200+ websites in this area my company hosts (from all around North and South Carolina), over 90% of the hits to the sites on our server are from folks using some flavor of IE. Whats even more telling, IMO, is that I'm the only one in the company that develops sites on Firefox, and then makes them IE compatible - everybody else uses IE as a default browser.
Now, that might have something to do with the fact that I'm sitting in front of a brand new MBP and they aren't, but even when I was working on Windows day in and day out, I used Firefox. I am the purist, though - and I'm a one-in-a-thousand. I figure that web developers like the ones who work on many small projects instead of a few large projects, overwelmingly do the same thing.
IE6 isn't just the practical standard, it's the gold standard. Therefore, people keep developing ActiveX controls, and people keep designing sites with proprietary IE6 features and such, and Microsoft, as any practical thinking group would, knows that if people are still developing heavily for this generation, then they aren't preparing themselves for the next generation.
Microsoft can't possibly pull off what they're looking to pull off with this generation of browsers, who could? We've got some incredible stuff out there right now, but I could think of at least a dozen internet based applications that I couldn't even begin to work out how to make it with this generation of tools.
Microsoft, if they have an ounce of sense in them, knows that they need to change direction and get people on board with the new platforms; Backwards compatibility be damned. I think that's the secret plot. - NiGHTSChao, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7*waves a little flag* Go FireFox T_T
- wistar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2No, Apple and MS have wide and deep cross-licensing agreements whereby they share just about anything that they want to share.
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