What is Digg?139 Comments
- Shogi, on 08/19/2008, -5/+143Dugg, everyone needs to see how Mozilla is picking up where Microsoft has utterly failed. It's pretty pathetic when your competitors actually start working on making your product not suck ass.
- mikephimikephi, on 08/19/2008, -3/+109I really hope Mozilla can pull this off. The article says that the user experience is currently clunky with someone having to click 'approve' and 'yes' a couple of times to run the plugin. Fortunately, the majority of IE users are so inept at deciding what is and isn't malware that they simply approve every ActiveX prompt.
All in all, great news for users. And even greater news for web developers wanting to use the latest and greatest features of HTML5 and CSS3. Now if only Mozilla can develop a plugin to patch the entire IE rendering engine. - snek, on 08/19/2008, -6/+67Gogo Mozilla! This article really made me laugh.. It's a step in the right direction though, the world should ditch IE completely, it is the most annoying browser to code for these days. We constantly have to fix sites just for IE, but they work fine (ie. the way we want them to) in Firefox, Opera & Safari. But oh no, IE never wants to play fair and has to be the annoying little brat who won't budge until you feed it the candy it wants..
- sloppychris, on 08/20/2008, -9/+52In case you haven't heard, we all decided to stop custom tailoring websites just for IE.
From now on, if you're going to use IE you'll have to deal with crappy rendering. Join the revolution! - stoanhart, on 08/19/2008, -3/+34Getting Adobe on board and having it distributed with flash would definately help. What would help even more, though, is if a site like Facebook suddenly required Canvas, and IE users had to download the plugins to use it.
- bmdt2000, on 08/19/2008, -1/+29I think they have the right idea by working to have it bundled with Flash. Otherwise, the adoption is likely to be less than stellar.
- EtherGnat, on 08/20/2008, -2/+25You exist to serve your customers, not the other way around. Your customers don't give a ***** about the good reasons you have to not support their browser. If you don't provide them with a good service they'll leave.
- jggube, on 08/19/2008, -5/+28No more canvas.js just for IE?! :)
- kaiser79, on 08/20/2008, -2/+25This is exactly the right approach. The W3C moves too slowly and has no leverage. Microsoft will rarely implement standards and only release optional updates every 3-4 years. Mozilla, Apple, and Adobe have real dedication to evolving the web. They know IE's continued failure is the single barrier to this effort and the plug-in model makes a lot of sense.
I only hope Mozilla's next IE plug-in is the Gecko rendering engine. - ThEDeMoNKiNg, on 08/20/2008, -2/+24You know you're lazy and/or your product sucks when your COMPETITOR fixes your product for you.
- inactive, on 08/20/2008, -1/+23Or maybe Mozilla just wants to fix the internet.
- DeathfireD, on 08/20/2008, -3/+22unfortunately "we all" does not include major company's that insist their sites look good in all browsers.
- Gavagai80, on 08/20/2008, -3/+22"Microsoft has already implemented Silverlight on Windows, OS X and Linux"
You read too many Microsoft/Novell press releases. There's no remotely workable (i.e. functioning without a crash on more than 50% of websites, or possible to install as a non-expert) silverlight on linux. Nor will there ever be, since it depends on mono, which is always a few steps behind .NET. - inactive, on 08/20/2008, -2/+21IE finally supports transparent PNGs?
- evilregis, on 08/20/2008, -2/+16I would say that it's pretty short-sighted to not give a ***** how your site appears to two-thirds of your visitors.
Like it or not, it's out there and it's your job to deal with that reality. If I was an IE user (and I'm not) and I went to a site that looked broken then that site would have lost a customer.
If this is your personal thing, then so be it but if you have clients and that's how you treat their sites as well then you are highly unprofessional and your clients are being ill-served by your practices.
I'm as anti-IE as anyone, but I realize it's in the wild and I have to code accordingly. If that means separate CSS files then tough *****. Do your job and do it right. - hufman, on 08/20/2008, -1/+15The main difference between IE's partial PNG implementation and Firefox's partial standards implementations is that Firefox releases a new version every 2 years while IE didn't release a new version for 5 years.
- Atomic1fire, on 08/20/2008, -1/+15http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canvas_(HTML_element) ...
(short summery: apple made its patents royalty free)
and not only that, but canvas support is already availible in firefox, so testing has allready been done, considering its allready stable enough to also be featured in macs official browser, safari
in fact the open standard is based on the safari version.
not only that but its allso availible on other webkit based applications, I would venture to say that you could use canvas on many other browsers without issue, so that whole stabillity thing is a nonissue - troye, on 08/20/2008, -1/+14"some eye of newt, and a pinch of garlic"
Mozilla engineers have all the humor. - OpenRevolt, on 08/20/2008, -6/+18They should just package the Mozilla Browser and Flash Player into one tightly integrated program.
That way with one click to upgrade everyone's flash they will effectively install Firefox/Mozilla on everyone's computer.
It's time for MS to start getting a taste of their own bullsh*t. - Lunarbunny, on 08/20/2008, -3/+15"...it seems unlikely that such users will be willing to install Internet Explorer plugins that provide Firefox features."
I dunno, I figure a lot of the people who use IE are willing to click yes to anything that pops up. OOOOH! SHINY NEW SMILEYS! *click* - Gavagai80, on 08/20/2008, -0/+12You've outlined the perfect plan to kill Flash -- make Flash into a virus that forces people to use a browser they don't want to, and suddenly everyone will move the Silverlight.
- badriram, on 08/19/2008, -5/+17Of course what ars fails to mention is that HTML 5 is not a standard yet, and wont be for a long time, and that apple also has patents in Canvas. Implementing development standards in real life instead of testing is the same as non standard.
And frankly i dont need yet another plugin to keep track of security updates or crashing the browser (flash and quitcktime i am looking at you) - TimDigg, on 08/20/2008, -0/+11Just like Apple should inlude Safari as an Apple update
/sarcasm
Let's not play dirty kids.... - maximumsteve1, on 08/20/2008, -1/+12double fail for both of you guys. Flash is huge, bigger than the amount of people on facebook. I think flash is installed on something like 98-99% of all browsers. If something is rolled out with flash, everybody has it... period.
- poprocksandsoda, on 08/20/2008, -19/+30This is quite a biased article considering that no browser fully supports HTML 5 yet ... since the spec is still in Draft. And I'm sorry, Firefox and Opera stuffing in partial support only creates the same problems that MS did years ago with their own take on DHTML and transparent PNGs.
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/
It's also one thing for Mozilla to run off an interpret the Canvas functionality, and another for them to wait until everyone has settled on the implementation. Granted, why such a rush to push Canvas when SVG has been gathering dust for nearly a decade? Obviously the market has spoken and the limited use of SVG demonstrates Canvas will not be delivering anything exceptional beyond what you can get with server-side generators, flash and Java. And you can't really blame IE for not supporting SVG native for this. Frankly, if it were useful you'd download it like you did flash and Java.
Microsoft has already implemented Silverlight on Windows, OS X and Linux which pretty much encapsulates the capabilities of Canvas and thensome (RIA, video, etc.)... so I imagine it's not a far journey for them to make this the route to support it once a spec is finalized. The real question is why?
Quite frankly, what's really irking people at Mozilla & Adobe is that SVG was such a failure and somehow they think they can right this with Canvas? Also, Adobe was happy to ride the Flash bandwagon until they realized it and AIR are not going to become defacto platforms for web content presentation across toolsets. They are now looking to get sympathy from the community (and sell their tools) for a standard that has all the magic and compelling features of flashing text and animated gifs. There is zero innovation in Canvas. - xyqxyq, on 08/20/2008, -0/+11You just have to unplug it for a few seconds.
- quii, on 08/20/2008, -2/+11So, you're punishing your end users.
You're quite the pro. - thelizardreborn, on 08/20/2008, -1/+10No, the W3C decides what is standard. If Apple happened to influence one element of it, good for them.
EDIT: I know canvas isn't standard yet. But if the HTML 5 specification is finalized without it, then it is unlikely to be the "future". - Atomic1fire, on 08/20/2008, -0/+9Well, what else do you call making IE more compatible with everything else,
- blaze03, on 08/20/2008, -4/+11Speak for yourself, please. Unless you qualify "we all" as freelancers and people who work for companies that hate 90% of their customers.
- linuxpenguin, on 08/20/2008, -0/+6. . . so you don't give a ***** about IE, but you want more people to stop using Firefox? Something tells me that's not what you meant to say. . .
- linuxpenguin, on 08/20/2008, -0/+6You've never seen an IE user click "yes" to install any plugin or ActiveX control they're asked to? Having done IT support, I can tell you that there are plenty IE users who click "Yes" all the time - whether the site's trying to install a new Flash plugin or some spyware program.
- irriadin, on 08/20/2008, -0/+6Internet Explorer 7 supports alpha transparency in PNGs. Too bad a lot of people are still using IE6, though.
- Atomic1fire, on 08/20/2008, -0/+6adobe would kill itself with that,
the smarter move would be making ie more compatible with other browsers, making a switch to other browsers easier, and hampering microsofts dominence less powerful, not only that but flash is multiplatform so adobe can easily make the switch even easier reducing silverlights dominence. because of flash making websites more standard, and then more people switching because of it. After standards, the only remaining hamper is advertising, mozilla and apple need to advertise more. - fsuarez2005, on 08/20/2008, -0/+6If new tags aren't important, why aren't we still at HTML 1.0? Just like a website stating that we need to upgrade our Flash plugin, websites should inform us to upgrade our browsers.
- budsstud26, on 08/20/2008, -2/+8If you don't use IE, you won't need the plugin. If you do use IE, you're an idiot.
- shawnanigans, on 08/20/2008, -0/+6WTF Microsoft. At least try to slow down the entropy.
- thelizardreborn, on 08/20/2008, -0/+5Unfortunately, most web developers are paid to develop sites by people who use IE.
- Atomic1fire, on 08/20/2008, -0/+5Actually making IE work with webstandards would be completely a smart move on the part of mozilla
by making more IE only sites work with firefox, which intern would allow more people to switch to firefox on all platform, as compatibillity becomes less of an issue. - rchargel, on 08/20/2008, -0/+5You do have a good point. Firefox 2 was notoriously hungry for memory. I could watch that sucker eat up 500+MB in no time. Those memory errors have been fixed in Firefox 3 (along with some great improvements in the way they manage plugins). That said, if you have an older box I might recommend Opera. Of course, if you really do have an older box you might consider installing GNU/Linux with Xfce (try Xubuntu).
- Chewie67, on 08/20/2008, -2/+6Maybe one of those confirmation messages could just say...
"This is a real hassle, isn't it? Why not just change to Firefox and be done with it." - GhostFreeman, on 08/20/2008, -3/+7I refuse to acknowledge canvas as being a web standard until Apple's patents on it expire. If Mozilla wants to waste my time with another ***** plugin for IE, then it should be SVG!
- mohtasham, on 08/20/2008, -0/+4"Unfortunately, most web developers are paid to develop sites by people who use IE."
True. If I get paid, I will make it compatible with IE, as well. But when I do something just for fun, I want to enjoy it. I don't want to spend time on making it compatible with IE. I rather add new functionalities to the website. - sephiroth965, on 08/20/2008, -0/+4in turn ≠ intern
- Jektal, on 08/20/2008, -1/+5He didn't suggest removing the bundled browser. He suggested switching the bundled browser from IE to Firefox.
Which is a great idea, that I can't see happening any time soon. - nhprm, on 08/20/2008, -0/+3IE users install bad plugins. Like Yahoo Toolbar.
- thelizardreborn, on 08/20/2008, -0/+3What incentive does Adobe have to package this with Flash? Canvas is an alternative to Flash (a competitor).
Btw, I'm not saying that canvas is designed to replace flash, but I'm sure Adobe would prefer some applications (Google Maps for example) to use flash instead of canvas. - Culyt, on 08/20/2008, -0/+3I knew someone who had their browser setup to warn them about every cookie, they would always click "no" and they didn't know there where legitimate uses for cookies (such as login information). Just think about getting about 3 popup boxes every time you Google. I did tell them they could auto reject but they didn't care.
They also freaked out when I changed their resolution (from the 640x480 that it had defaulted to at some time). I ended up having to change it back.
☢ - thelizardreborn, on 08/20/2008, -0/+3It's not just the installation process that makes you click yes. It's EVERY time the plugin is run.
To compare that with Firefox plugins, imagine something like the XPI installation dialogue popping up on EVERY page that has ads that confirms you want to run Adblock Plus. - WomensUnderwear, on 08/20/2008, -1/+4you frigging moron
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