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134 Comments
- Create, on 10/12/2007, -19/+167i agree, sorry, but the majority of users *are* idiots
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -7/+43"I disagree. Many trojans and viruses are spread due to the lax security of IE and Outlook and various other services."
I agree with that sentiment, but after explaining to people how to run Adware/Spyware defense software, set up their machines to run AV constantly and automatically grab updates, and them STILL contracting spyware and trojans, I agree that a great deal of it is "stupid users".
For that reason alone, I'm glad OSes like Linux exist, because the great deal of "Stupid Users" will never use it because they think it's too difficult, thus Trojans and Adware won't recieve nearly the same kind of penetration on these platforms. Even if Linux's market share were 20%, I don't think we'd see the same, braindead "CLICK HERE TO WIN A PRIZE" audience, and that's good news for system admins, computer-literate brothers, and computer support personel everywhere. - eliomar, on 10/12/2007, -14/+47I agree with micoshaft. people are stupid. they d-load anything that will get the music or videos online and disregard security. I guess thats why i quit fixing computers, becuase most of them were " My computer is Slow" not something challenging. but thats IMHO
digg me down if need be. - Bobski, on 10/12/2007, -4/+32Like my pappy always said, "The trouble with making computers complete idiots can use is that you have complete idiots using computers."
- Gizza, on 10/12/2007, -4/+25No doubt users are dumb. Countless times have I had to fix my uncles computer due to spyware and viruses, even tho he has virus and spyware scanners.
I use firefox and have no virus or spyware scanners at all and my computer stays perfectly healthy, how hard is it to not open that email that tells you that "u can be 3 times larger!!11"?
In my mind, anti-virus software is the worst virus there is, it slows your computer down more than any virus ive ever had and is a hell of a lot harder to remove. - vantreeseda, on 06/14/2009, -2/+20At work, I repair ad/spy/malware issues on people's computers. I can't understand how people get some of this stuff. I've been working with computers both on the Microsoft and *nix side for over 10 years and I couldn't get half of this stuff if I tried. I believe it's a combination of user ignorance and the problems with the software.
- yaosio, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20I don't see how running "not a virus.exe" is Microsoft's fault.
- ilitirit, on 10/12/2007, -7/+25"Open source gets results"? What does that have to do malware? And are you implying that closed source produces very few results, if any? (Any comment from OS X users?)
Open source denotes that the source code is (usually) publically available (either completely or in part). It doesn't even mean that:
a) You will be able to understand it the source code
b) You will be able to compile it
c) You will be able to modify it
d) The software is free
and most importantly, it definitely doesn't mean that:
e) The software is of high quality
(A) to (D) depend largely on the user him/herself and the software license amongst other things (availability and licenses parameters of build tools). While (E) should be plainly obvious, it sadly isn't for most people.
Personally, I don't have a problem with closed or open source. I do have a problem with poorly designed or poorly written software though.
If you're referring to a specific software or operating systems, then say so. Referring to the general term "open source" in this context just makes you look ignorant - CorDawg, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18"He goes on to say that phishing is a problem because "there really is no patch for human stupidity"."
They are talking about phishing here, phishing isnt usually because of bad ms products, If you get a fake email from your bank, are you going to blame microsoft?
Same with the comment above, people are downloading attachments because they dont think before they act - radu79, on 10/12/2007, -46/+62I disagree. Many trojans and viruses are spread due to the lax security of IE and Outlook and various other services.
Unless they claim people are stupid for using their products, in which case I agree. - silenceHR, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19yes, some are more then just dumb.
i cleaned friend's comp once, installed Firefox and the whole lot of security stuff and 2 weeks later he calls me that his comp is slow again... i come over and i see he removed Firefox and is using IE. i ask him why he did it and answer was "i like those cool toolbars"... at that moment i just stood up and said "never call me again about your comp" - qedx, on 01/11/2009, -3/+18I'm actually agreeing with Microsoft here. While certain aspects of MS software is just bad, a windows PC can be kept reasonably safe by following certain precautions which some idiots seem to be unable to follow.
/"No that email does NOT have a screensaver of jessica alba naked" - kazsymonds, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Most phishing attacks can be avoided by using a bit of common sense, this also applies for trojans etc,
I agree, imo the computers achiles heel is the squidgy organic bit sat in front of it. - angelp, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17Dumb enough to use IE and Outlook? We're calling these people dumb because they're using the products that came with their computer? We have to realize that there are parents and grandparents out there they don't know that IE is a piece of crap and that they should use an alternative browser. How would they automatically know that?
- rderveloy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11If you read the article, Microsoft didn't say they blame all malware on stupid users, just phishing.
FTA:
..."He goes on to say that phishing is a problem because 'there really is no patch for human stupidity'."
And that, of course, is %100 correct. Phishing attempts are pretty much only effective against the ignorant and stupid.
The title, although the correct title of the blog, is very inaccurate and blows a comment about phishing way out of proportion to include all of malware in general.
If you belive otherwise, then I'm an African price who needs mony to help restore me to power and get rid of my opressive stepfather. - futurepastnow, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16I've been using Firefox, AVG, Spybot+Ad Aware for over two years and haven't had a single problem in that time. I set my dad (a "stupid" user) up with the same setup and he has no malware. The problem is with people who are dumb enough to use IE and Outlook, and open every attachment they receive.
I don't have any dislike for Microsoft, but some of their products are the cause of this problem. It won't get better, either- now that Microsoft is internalizing malware removal (and putting 3rd parties out of business), they have less incentive than ever to make their stuff secure. - ShrimpCrackers, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12"Egotistical Egghead Speak"? You are at the wrong wrong wrong website. I'm not so offended as amused by your statement.
- wmoisis, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Does this mean that Steve Ballmer is stupid?
- giancydni, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I own an Internet Cafe that runs both Windows and Linux.. last year, one "stupid" customer managed to open a virus/trojan which infected all my MS Windows machines.. Linux machines were spared.. I don't know which to blame.. my 'stupid" customer.. or MS...
- SyDIGG, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6If you want to compare an OS to a car ...lets make the analogy. Microsoft is like selling you a car with a faulty steering wheel. In order to drive safe, the user must replace the steering wheel with a 3rd party one named Firefox. Enough said.
- dstroyer, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Agreed. My wife is fairly computer-savvy, but she *nearly* fell for a paypal scam a few weeks back.
- SBelyea, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Sorry, but Gates is right here. My brother works IT for the local town office, and he also helps manage the police station computers. Those boxes had antivirus, malware, the works on them, yet the incompetant staff - when they found an e-mail attachment they couldn't open because it was quarantined - found the quarantined folder on the computer, put it on a disk, stuck it in another computer and ran it.
Persistant idiocy is the problem, not flawed software. Put an idiot in a padded room with a spork and he'd still find a way to kill himself. - mecc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I think malware and phishing are two completely separate issues. Yes, there will always be people who fall victim to cons (phishing), and nothing will likely ever change that. But the fact that windows malware spreads faster than a whore on a submarine is absolutely 100% microsoft's fault. Here's why
Their design paradigm is to this day rooted in CP/M the OS they stole to make DOS. It had no privilege separation model. Today, while their OS *does* have a privilege separation model, their system is designed NOT TO USE IT. Nearly everyone runs with full admin privs because it is for the most part the only way to get anything usefull done. For this reason alone, all malware is 100% the fault of microsoft. The guy in the article is right - there's no patch for stupidity, especially microsoft's stupidity.
Worse, everytime MS talks about security, you can tell their still thinking in DOS mode, where people are in no way encouraged to even think at all about good security practices. At least Apple tried (kind of succeeded) by incorporating sudo and forcing people to cough up a password to change anything (they need to do that even more, like for putting items in the 'Applications' folder for example) and disabling the administrator (root) account. MS doesn't even show any signs of trying.
So Vista will have a good security model, which ALL MS users will promptly go around, thanks to how MS has hopelessly dumbed down their userbase. And they'll get their brand new boxen owed. The fact that MS users are so dumbed down is really MS's doing. - gd007, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5MS (Microsoft) relies on stupid people who keep buying their products.
- astrotrain, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Yes most users do not know better when it comes to using a computer and getting into issues that tend to
computer problems.
But also Microsoft is to blame, for forcing their browser down peoples throats, and interlocking it with their OS so much that 'black scripts' can easily be written and executed in the Internet Browser (via ActiveX) which as a result ruin the users OS or install Spyware. - adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I kinda agree, it's a mix I think of bad programming and people not having enough commen sense. All the PC's I dis-infect for people amazes me to this day, I've given them all firm "DON'T OPEN EMAIL ATTATCHMENTS FROM PEOLE YOU DON'T KNOW!!!" But theres always those who get the "click here for a cute kitties screensaver!" or "Open this link for the best Dale Jr. screenavers!" and have to open the damn things.
- SpyDerMann, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5OK letme get this straight. Your Internet Explorer gets infected with a virus because activeX is as full of holes as a gruyere cheese, and suddenly the user's an idiot?
- AttroPheed, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Malware, most viruses and most definitely phishing, can all be blamed squarely on idiocy. So can this *****'s blog post.
+lame - jellygraph, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Elisabeth Kübler-Ross M.D. developed the five-stage grief model that we use today. It is a guide to the stages that a dying or grieving person goes through while accepting death.
The five stages are:
- Denial
- Anger
- Bargaining
- Depression
- Acceptance
Seems like they are on stage 2.
I'm sorry, but a fully secure operating system is not as hard as it seems to be. Microsoft are just so panic stricken from never having had to care about security, to suddenly seeing security problems everywhere, that they might be losing the big picture. They might as well be telling users to move to MacOSX, which was designed better for stupid users.
Email needs to be fixed as well, so that email can be a trusted form of communication and email clients are able to distinguish between questionable and trusted emails without using crazy algorithms and such. This is not hard, but it means someone has to take initiative.
Come on people - Salvo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Have you tried locking down the Windows Accounts with Limited or Restricted User Accounts?
In an Internet Café, the User shouldn't have the ability to change System Settings or Install Viruses or MalWare.
While it will never be as secure as a properly configured Linux Box, you can make a Windows Box which is at least resistant to MalWare and Viruses. - Salvo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7You can't blame users for following the instructions given to them by the Guy who sold them the computer.
They bought the machine for a specific purpose. They shouldn't have to seek third-party advice on installing Alternate Browsers or Anti-Virus which wasn't bundled on the computer.
They shouldn't have to find out about Picasa because the bundled HP, Canon or Sony Image Management software destroys their digital photos.
These people deserve a custom Ubuntu or Kubuntu Install or a Mac. Something which won't let them get into trouble, but gives them enough power to get their tasks completed. - benitojuarez, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4This is true. Pc Users do not have a clue. With safe browsing habits one can have a safe browsing experience with IE. However you guys give way to much credit to the average user. Most people wouldnt even know what open source is if you ask them. Were not talking about people that go around installing new shells here, were talking about Susie from accounting, and Jeff from customer relations. 90% of the people that use WinOS dont know anything about computing beyond the demands of their job E.G. Word, Excel, Lotus Notes and such.
- paulmdx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Agreeing or disagreeing on if the users are "stupid" depends on your threshold for stupidity.
If the threshold is anyone below security expert is stupid, then yes, stupid users are the problem. If the threshold is anyone above newbie is NOT stupid, then the problem is Windows.
Chances are it's somewhere in the middle, where users are somewhat stupid, therefore it's half Microsoft's fault, half the stupid users' faults.
What is the solution for Microsoft? Nanny users more and don't give them as much scope for exercising their 'stupidity'. This is why I think Vista is likely to be more restrictive on what users can do. - Hortnon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Honestly, as soon as I see MS spelled M$ or Microsoft spelled Micro$oft, I stop caring.
- benitojuarez, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Its true, Most PC users dont have a clue. With safe browsing habits one can use IE and feel safe and secure. Seriously how many of your _average_ users even know what open source means. We arent talking about people who install a new shell here, were talking about Susie in accounting or Jeff in the customer relations and support office. People dont seem to realize that even though computers are ubiquitous in our society a good 90% dont know anything about computers beyond what their job demans of them E.G. Word, Excel, Lotus Notes, and what have you.
- rderveloy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"look at you, you can't build a rocket to fly to the moon, you stupid C**T." said the rocket scientist to the coputer geek."
Yeah, but without sophisticated computer-driven guidance systems the rocket would never get to the moon in the first place.
Think, then type. It's a very simple concept. - ACalcutt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Vista Promp *This programs is trying to modify system files and is malware*
*User wanting just to install the Program just hits continue* - xbasilx, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5"there really is no patch for human stupidity"
there's no patch for really ***** programming derived from bad system analysis derived from stupid OS "features" from a greedy ***** whose only talent is setting up and exploiting a monopoly, either.
.......or were they really talking about bill gates? - KevinJ, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I blame it on stupid programmers
- jm9206755, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2One good way to prevent this is to ghost the hard drives. I see this alot with internet cafes. If something goes wrong you can just restart and your back to normal.
- pornel, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Users are "stupid" when using computer, but it's not because they are stupid people, but because they're not geeks and don't care how computers work and can't figure out what risks are involved. It's unlikely that everyone will become geeks, so this problem won't go away.
Microsoft is here to blame for malware. If Windows, like *nix systems, required admin password for modification of startup items, browser plugins and other important system areas, most malware couldn't get installed so easily and problem would be much smaller.
But phishing... that's fault of naiive people. - NetJoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2the quote referred to 'social engineering attacks' in particular. By definition those exploit the people and the process not technical vulnerabilities.
There are some technical changes that can make the attacks more difficult, especially clear and obvious privilege escalation, but by their nature they are social attacks, not technical ones. people have had their identities stolen for financial gain using these tactics for many years. - lefthandedlinux, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3both is true, users are stupid and microsoft makes a vulnerable system that is easily infected by the stupid users, (happy now?)
- stmiller, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4It's all of those 'free' flash games that people play. I've seen people playing those on their computers with flashing ads and popups galore, and they don't seem to mind. They are inside their flash game. Meanwhile, their computer is getting owned.
- ACalcutt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Damn...he's crazy
- EGOvoruhk, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8My car has no alarm. If it was broken into, I would only blame myself. I don't see why an OS should be any different
If you buy something, its up to you to learn about how to use it. It's not the OS creator's job to hold your hand - SpyDerMann, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Except when that file is being run through a security hole via a buffer overflow on port 139, and was sent by a computer residing in South Korea.
Oh yeah, it's TOTALLY the user's fault! He should have updated to SP2, run his rootkit detector and purchased a hardware firewall! Any idiot can do that! (/sarcasm) - hypercube33, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Steve Balmer...
I submit to you the following:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6304687408656696643&q=steve+balmer - variety567, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Get with the program Microsoft. Of course most of your users are morons. Most people are morons. Every other product is made and remade and remade so that it is usable by the average idiot. If you can't make your products do that then you need to work harder at it. I mean think about it, there is a warning on coffee cups now that the coffee may be hot, there are warning labels on Ovens that you should not stand on the oven door and the companies that make them now have to add a weight device so that if someone doesn't read the warning they are still safe from injury... These kind of warnings and product refinements happen all the time because of consumer stupidity. What makes you think you shouldn't have to deal with it. And BTW calling your customers stupid isn't going to win you any popularity contests. Dimwits.
- MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It's turned on by default, but you have to click 'yes' about 3 times to use it anywhere (Thanks, SP2)
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