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295 Comments
- dWhisper, on 10/12/2007, -36/+174I think they're marked down because they have little to do with the topic at hand.
- mark1372, on 10/12/2007, -32/+143Why are people always asking why their comments are being modded-down? I mean, this question is in every single article's discussion! You are being modded-down because either (1) people disagree with what you are saying, or (b) because your post added little or nothing of relevance discussion. That's it. Figure out which category yours falls under your damn self.
- kimos, on 10/12/2007, -32/+113@DCJoeDog:
As much as I'm a Linux fan, you can't say you can do EVERYTHING in Linux that you can under Windows. Also, it is usually way harder to get Linux setup to do some pretty standard stuff.
I hate MS. I thing everyone should move away from it. But I still think that you are loosing touch with how normal people don't want to screw around trying to get stuff to work. It's what makes Linux so powerful, customizable and totally under your control, but at the same time it makes it harder to get working and way less approachable... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -40/+102"Tell me one thing you can do in Windows that you can't in Linux. Come on, one thing."
Play C&C, WoW, Starcraft, Madden, KotOR, Oblivion, Act of War, Civ4, The Sims 2, Star Wars Empire at War, Age of Empires III, The Battle for Middle Earth..
Pretty much all games. Except Tux Racer.
And don't tell me that "wine" crap. I've tried it, it's the suck. - yoyoyoyo, on 10/12/2007, -61/+105hey mooninite
i can plug my digital camera, ipod, and usb memory sticks right into windows and they are recognized and accessible within 3 seconds PRIOR to installing anything. can you say that about linux? no, because there you'd have to "man mount" and spend 3 hours configuring it. oh, and good luck getting help from linux forums since they'll just insult you over there.
oh, and i also enjoy being able to plug in a printer and have it work right away.
think before you speak. - loof, on 10/12/2007, -29/+60mooninite: How about play some dod or cs?
Linux is a good OS it just isn't for everybody. In terms of ease of use Windows is way ahead of Linux. - Prol1fic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+31Or you could just configure it not to install/reboot without you saying 'yes'.
- neurogenesis, on 10/12/2007, -10/+38my copy is legit. but it still pisses me off because I hate coming home and seing that my pc rebooted when i expected it to be up.
im turning auto updates off. - spectre, on 10/12/2007, -6/+32This is 'uncool' because they are scanning your machine without your permission and without notifying you. In theory, I really don't have a problem that they are scanning, but when they try to be clandestine about it and assume we won't figure it out, I feel we're sliding down a slippery slope.
You may not be complaining about them secretly scanning your machine for whatever they feel is 'pirated software' now, but if they get in the habit of scanning your machine for a serial, how long before they realize they can scan you for anything else interesting on your hard drive? After all, if they can attach the reason to combating piracy, you've already proven that you won't stand up and say something about it.
I refuse to behave like some slack-jawed sheep and bend over every time Microsoft decides that I (a paying customer) have committed some crime. I'm on my last install of Windows. I don't know ***** about OSX and even less about Linux, but there's got to be something better than these kind of random invasions of privacy. If they're really doing this, ***** them.
Live free or die. - dWhisper, on 10/12/2007, -3/+28It's not. This has been on the front page in a few different forms over the last couple of days, this one is just a bit more "legitimate" because it's from the Washington Post.
This isn't anything new though, Microsoft has always done this with the WGA program. They don't "scan" the computer to look for pirated software, they check keys and files already accessable to Windows Update to check for known pirated copies. It goes back as far as SP2 with the keycode lockout for the most common "enterprise" copies that were leaked.
They aren't pulling any information on you, your activities, or even your system, only your OS install which is available to them (and outlined in the EULA that they can have access to it). This also isn't a DRM issue, and even if it was, there isn't anything inherently bad about DRM, only the ways that DRM may be used. iTunes, Real Media, Windows Media... they're all DRM and have been around for years, and it wasn't ever that big of a deal. - Elixon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+27"Users who have not validated their machines as genuine through WGA will not be able to download IE 7 and Windows Defender among other downloads and updates."
They should be thankful that somebody wishes to download IE7 - if you cannot download it, what will you do? Install Firefox.
They probably think that IE7 is still so irreplaceable that everybody are willing to download it even for the price of registering their pirated copy of Windows OS... I think that they are simply wrong. It is simpler to start using Firefox then...
What they expect? They decided to loose their only MSIE weapon - the market share by this stupid move... Once the market share starts slipping... spiral of death. - Lindquist, on 10/12/2007, -22/+45Because the constitution protects uses from searches without our permission or permission from the courts.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+31"Only a problem for pirates ;)"
Or people that value privacy, and feel that someone sniffing around their property constitutes an invasion.
What you're saying is analagous to "I didn't steal my television, but it's cool for the cops to come in every day and make sure."
It's stupidity like this that erodes the 4th Amendment of the Constitution.
Relinquish your right to vote. You're not using it anyway... - edmcguirk, on 10/12/2007, -6/+28Ummm, the Constitution protects us from the government. Laws protect us from companies and people.
- theschitzobob, on 10/12/2007, -16/+36I'm a big fan of Linux, but I'm also realistic and I still use Windows on my primary computer. This is mostly because it's a laptop and has some interesting hardware, but it still effectively destroys the eloquent "OMG Windows is teh suxx0rz" argument.
On Windows, I can pop the OS CD in the drive and reboot. A few clicks gets me a fully installed operating system. I can then use the computer manufacturer's website to download drivers that will install and function with no problems. Install all my favorite open-source and otherwise free software, spend a while setting up the necessary security like virus scan and Windows Updates, and I have a fully functional computer. I can connect to wireless networks, I can view many types of media, and I can connect a second monitor to the computer and set up dual displays in whatever fashion I would like. This will probably have taken about five hours, especially since there's so much to install with the updates and programs, but the whole process is just downloading, clicking, and waiting.
On Linux, I can pop the OS CD in the drive and reboot. A few clicks gets me a fully installed operating system (did you notice that this sentence is the same?). I already have an impressively powerful system with many free programs preinstalled, and excellent security and performance. But if I want my wireless network to work, I might have some work ahead of me. And if I want hardware accelerated graphics on my ATI card, I'll have to download the driver on kynaptic, then run through a command-line utility that requires me to know all about my monitors and my adapter. And even after all of that, I won't have dual monitors working correctly - I'll only have a broken implementation. Then, if I want my games to work, I have to learn how to set up and use *insert emulator or library package here*.
So yeah, Linux is great. But it's not the silver bullet you're making it out to be. - Shadowe, on 10/12/2007, -4/+24Read the EULA (End User Lic Agreement), If you are using Microsoft Software you have agreed to the conditions set forth in this agreement. Even if you are running a pirated copy, by simply running it, you have agreed.
- ZenTaff, on 10/12/2007, -43/+63"why are people marking down our linux comments, they're all true, sorry you windows users can't get a clue"
Hmm. Perhaps it's your unbearable smugness that rubbed them the wrong way. - mkaufman, on 10/12/2007, -37/+53@DCJoeDog
No, it's not jealousy. Your comments were nothing but linux fanboy speak and added no value to the discussion.
Oh, and BTW: no, you cannot do everything with linux. (and it's not just games) - Sandtiger, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15My MSFT software is all legal versions that I had to buy. With that in mind here is a quote from history that directly relates to the "if your not a pirate what does it matter" comment. History does repeat itself if your around long enough.
They came for the Communists, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Communist;
They came for the Socialists, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Socialist;
They came for the labor leaders, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a labor leader;
They came for the Jews, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Jew;
Then they came for me - And there was no one left to object.
- Martin Niemoller, German Protestant Pastor, 1892-1984 - zoltan, on 10/12/2007, -12/+23dang i had the patch from a week ago and just turned updates off. looks like i did it right in time!
- djdole, on 10/12/2007, -19/+29mooninite:
"Tell me one thing you can do in Windows that you can't in Linux. Come on, one thing."
One thing? Sure I'll nibble at that challenge...
How about: "Maintain a majority OS user-base in spite of constant fanatical fanboi/cult opposition."
You can't be a flaming Linux zealot boycotting Windows in today's world and expect to get a job. If you're going to be working in the real-world, you are going to be using Windows one way or another. It's a fact. - o0joshua0o, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13This, too, shall be cracked.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11umm yeah.. first there was a better version of this artcile on digg front page last night
second windows update has scanned for pirated keys for years.. just now they are doing something about it.
they also scan for pirated vs of their software like office.. but i dont think they are doing anything about that yet.
if concerned use http://windowsupdate.62nds.com/ for updates which works for firefox.
also there is already a crack for this. o torrents.. came out a week before the ms patch, as well as a work arround here on digg. FOr information purposes only http://www.mininova.org/tor/288384
even if you dont run autoupdate, you will need to get this if you want some of the ms updates..
last they claim to not harvest any identifible information.. they just put the piracy thing on your pc and gather standard web demographics. - pdiddle, on 10/12/2007, -46/+55The reason you are being marked down is your idiotic "holyer than thou" attitude you're taking to being an apparent "linux user". Just because you managed to burn an ubuntu cd and point and click a few times doesnt make you any way smarter.
@mooninite: run new directx games, ala oblivion. - lukescammell, on 10/12/2007, -9/+18Only a problem for pirates ;) But still, MS should tell people. Hasn't WinXP been massively "chatty" since day one though?
- adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -9/+18Good thing I don't run auto update then...
- Tomos, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11I own a valid copy of XP but CHOOSE to use a pirated stripped out version for speed reasons. I don't consider this illegal because I own a valid license. But I don't want to use the bloated CD version. Currently my XP install folder takes up only 400mb and runs really fast. I'm not installing the full version from the CD after gaining all this speed. I think people should be allowed to do what they want to their copy after they've bought it.
- FlyboyP, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11dWhisper: exactly so.
It isn't "illegal" search by any stretch of the imagination, no more than your electric company noticing that you are bypassing their meter, and taking action against you. If you are ripping them off, and connecting to them, I think they have the right to check into that. - ByteGuerilla, on 10/12/2007, -10/+18mooninite, stop being so smug - you just come off as someone who doesn't understand what you are talking about.
Whether you have WINE or Cedega or whatever running on your Linux boot to get Win32 applications to run, the average John Q. Computer-Owner will not have a clue what you're talking about when you say "Operating System", never mind "Dual-boot", "Ubuntu", "Emulation", etc. What is important to people is that they can set up their system with a minimum of fuss, and everything to work from the get-go. Windows offers them this; Linux does not. The closest Linux can get to this is Ubuntu, which admittedly is a very good desktop OS, but again, people are uninterested in debating the OS for their new PC. Both work fine. Such a debate wouldn't get very far: "What do you mean 'other than Windows'? ... You-bun-two? ... What's a distribution? ... A type of Linux? What's a Linux?"
Until Windows stops working fine (which it does, by the way, so long as you're not naïve about security), people will be quite happy with it, and rightly so. Different needs for different people. - yatpay, on 10/12/2007, -9/+17i'm not putting linux down, but i'm sick and damn tired of people claming you can do EVERYTHING on linux that you can do on windows. can i use all of my adobe products? can i use 3DS max? can i use all the little random windows programs that i've become accustomed to? no! that doens't make linux bad, but if i feel more comfortable using linux only on my web server and using windows on my main machine, don't pull that condescending ***** on me!
- ModernTenshi, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13I was wondering why it's a Wednesday, late in the month of April, and there's an update out.
Maybe I'll just not install this one, and disable it from appearing again in Windows Updates, even though I'm running a legit copy of XP. - sundancekid503, on 10/12/2007, -15/+23What's so "uncool" about this. Why is everyone up in arms about a company expecting payment for a product they sell? If you don't like it, there ARE free alternatives.
You pay for pretty much everything else you use in life, I fail to see how Microsoft is evil because they expect to be paid for their main product.
If you don't want the hassle and don't want to pay, then use Linux. There is really nothing to complain about here. - MrKite, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14Information collected during validation
Q: What information is collected from my computer?
A:
The genuine validation process will collect information about your system to determine if your Microsoft software is genuine. This process does not collect or send any information that can be used to identify you or contact you. The only information collected in the validation process is:
* Windows product key
* PC manufacturer
* Operating System version
* PID/SID
* BIOS information (make, version, date)
* BIOS MD5 Checksum
* User locale (language setting for displaying Windows)
* System locale (language version of the operating system)
* Office product key (if validating Office)
* Hard drive serial number
Why would anyone other than a pirate care about that? - justice7, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10So if you pirate, don't sweat it yet... lol
What exactly happens in the event that the tool finds a PC that is suspected of running a counterfeit version of Windows (what info, if any, is then shared with Redmond)?:
"WGA Notifications is for Windows XP users. Our client software does not collect any information that can be used to identify or contact a user. We use the same process used by many popular search engines and Web sites to determine where their users are from -- a form of IP lookup. This IP lookup process does not include any information that is used to identify you or contact you, and only gives a rough geographic representation of where users are located." - webcrumb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"* Windows product key
OK, fine
* PC manufacturer
Umm, OK
* Operating System version
Yeah, OK. I'd have thought you could tell from the product key, though.
* PID/SID
Surely that goes along with the product key?
* BIOS information (make, version, date)
* BIOS MD5 Checksum
Umm... why do you need this? It's got nothing to do with the OS.
* User locale (language setting for displaying Windows)
* System locale (language version of the operating system)
Yeah, why not.
* Office product key (if validating Office)
Fine.
* Hard drive serial number"
Holy *****. So when my drive is erased and shredded 25 times they still know the hard drive had Windows on it at some point, and can pin the drive to me? Not good. I may have to engage in some community drive swapping. :) - dWhisper, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Constitutional rights against search and seizure applys to public and safety officials only. If a private enterprise attempted this, it would fall under "breaking & entering." Beyond that, probable cause exists to get around search and seizure, and if the government believes you are stealing, they can argue they had the right to go in.
However, that being said, there are plenty of ways around a private enterprise to do that. A work computer belongs to your business, they have the right to claim and access it, regardless of where it is (for example, they can still remote in to that laptop you have at home and see what you're doing). Leases and homeowner agreements can also give certain entities the right for search.
The Windows EULA (as well as the EULA for several other companies... take a look through those Linux EULAs some time) gives Microsoft the right to check for certain indicators and information. They're not looking at your documents, your data, or your user information. The closest comparison I can come up with is running a license plate. - uownedge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I talked a little bit about this yesterday, and I'd like to bring up the same point here. This feature isn't too bad if you're talking about home users who should in fact have purchased a proper license for the software. BUT, what about businesses who have in fact purchased proper licenses of the software? "Well, then you shouldn't have problems!" That's just not true. Regardless of how much of a windows fanatic you are, you've got to admit that there will be problems, just like with activation. When upgrading, reinstalling, repairing, etc machines at my place of work, I'm constantly running into problems with activation, as are many other IT workers. It's annoying, frustrating, and a waste of time for us.
Now, I'm not saying windows is bad (no, I am in fact not a fan of windows, but I'm also not the type to blindly claim it's completely worthless either). But I can't help but ask myself, is there not a better way to fight against piracy?
I also have to ask myself weather the problem is SO bad that they have to take such tactics, or if they are just looking for even more money. Is Microsoft not a multi-billion dollar company? Are they now going broke because so many people are pirating their software? The last time I checked, the only things they had to be afraid of were OS X and Linux, and by moving to methods such as this, I would think it would be sort of a step in the wrong direction.
Let's say that MS makes it so that you simply cannot pirate windows anymore (I know, this will never happen, but let's just assume). Put yourself in the shoes of your average every day pirate. Your options are to either go out and spend x hundred dollars on a piece of software you really don't like enough to pay for, or simply give up and learn *nix or purchase a Mac.
Yes, this might encourage *some* people to purchase a legit copy of their software, but I think instead of focusing on how to force everyone to pay for something that they don't want to (and probably still wont) pay for, they should be focusing on making the product into something that more people DO want to pay for.
Regardless, these are just my thoughts. After all, if it weren't for windows, I would be unemployed right now ;) - millixaw, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7They do. And they also have the finanical resources. But I don't think they could handle a massive counter-sue regarding invasion of privacy.
My computer is my personal property, not Microsoft's, and I have the right to shoot-to-kill anyone who invades my personal property. ;-) - neurogenesis, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10You should care. You should care even if you are legit!!!
This is a security issue. If they are installing something on your PC in order to have it send information to them without you knowing it, why don't we label this as spyware?
I mean, think about this scenario: The government asks Microsoft to turn in all their records on piracy for whatever reasons. Microsoft complies. What's next?
"Microsoft, we now order you to bug all computers, log activity and keystrokes. We want to know who does porn and searches for the Hacker's Manifesto."
"Yes, master." - SoulMaster2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Make it so it only downloads updates automatically, and and ask permission to install them.
- Poolshark19, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7yea the title made me think they scanned everything when in fact its only the windows OS itself, nothing else
- jgclark123, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@mrkite
According to my System Properties, my PC manufacturer is http://thepiratebay.org : ) - Handcannons, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9Some of you need to actually read the article and not base your opinions on the incorrect summary. IT DOES NOT report back to Microsoft. The article specifically states that it is only a client side reporting tool, nothing is sent back to MS about the user.
If you want to use Windows get a legit copy. If you're to cheap or don't want MS to know anything then use Linux. Don't bitch and moan about a company trying to stop people from stealing their software. - jpt62089, on 10/12/2007, -12/+17Next thing we know MS will be scanning our PCs for private information to sell to the RIAA! AHHHH!
- spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6You can crack it with Microsoft's own Windows Update utilities. Uncheck the box next to this well described update and you've successfully hax0red Bill.
- 511pf, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10Because no vendor should have the right to access your computer without your consent.
- valen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4For more information on this program, there is an official Microsoft briefing on it in Microsoft Knowledge Base Article 905474. You can find this article at: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/905474/en-us
Additional information on Windows Genuine Advantage is available in Microsoft Knowledge Base Article 892130. The article is available at: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/892130/en-us
In brief, the program does the following:
* Logging into a non-genuine Windows copy will result in a "Get Genuine Now" message to come up. The message has two options: "Get Genuine" and "Remind Me"
* There will be an icon in the system tray for non-genuine Windows copies reminding the user to get genuine. The system tray icon launches the "Get Genuine Now" message described above.
* Using "Remind Me Later" puts a "This windows copy is not genuine." banner on the desktop.
* The update will most likely have "KB905474" or "KB892130" in the title on "Windows Update". I believe it appeared as "Windows Genuine Advantage Validator" under the Windows Update "Critical Updates" section. Users wishing to avoid installation of this software are advised to NOT use the "Express" option in Windows Update and NOT use the Automatic Updates feature. - astrotrain, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Just turn off Automatic Updates, or have it display what it is about to update. And uncheck the 'GWA' and of course the 'Malicious Software' thinga-ma-bob that Microsoft keeps trying to push. And of course assure your firewalls are up to report Microsoft's (LOL!!) "Malicious Software" from trying to phone home.
Microsoft does not have the right IMHO to go scanning around peoples PC. Sure they have the OS, but the data created by the user is the users sole property and not Microsoft's. I'm sure this will be brought to the attention of Privacy Groups. - Enitime, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5They don't want to stop piracy, they want to stop people from -selling- pirated copies as originals. If someone won't pay for windows, odds are they'd go elsewhere if they had to. For a lot of people, it's not a question of paying or not, it's a choice between using free windows or free linux. Better to have them use your product without paying than chasing them over to the competition.
No company wants piracy stopped. It wouldn't mean more profits for them if people had NO way of using an illegitimate copy. Ironically, an unbreakable software copyright mechanism would benefit open source software more than anyone else. People would find that they could use gimp to make the drop shadow for their blog's logo instead of pirating Photoshop. Gimp would get more users, more developers, more testers, more funding, etc. - pfdogs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4A small anal probe is not as intrusive (or painful) as a large anal probe, but it is still intrusive. :)
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