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70 Comments
- crilen007, on 10/12/2007, -9/+43Considering they are the dominant OS, I would say a lot of people do.
- crilen007, on 10/12/2007, -10/+37They are? You know this for sure? Do you work there?
No. No. No.
So if you don't know for sure, why post something to stupid and useless. - mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -8/+21It is not as much the security flaws in windows, but the large ammount of people who expose them. Linux and Unix varients are built with more security in mind but there are also alot less people trying to exploit them.
- DigitalDud, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14What's sadder is the number of people who actually believed the story.
- phoenix11, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Actually, the code change mentioned in the earlier article was ancient news, reported in WSJ on Sept. 23, 2005. The WSJ article talked about the re-vamp; it sounded mostly like better modularization, better multi-thread support, and better security.
The code change DID happen AFAIK, it is just long done and ancient news. - dioscaido, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I'm a developer on windows. The 60% rewrite story is really amusing, and obviously wrong.
I'm posting this comment at home from the Feb CTP of Vista, which is perfectly stable for me, and at work the builds driving towards Beta 2 are a huge improvement.
The fact is, for Vista we don't want to release an OS where everyone says "wait for SP1". Some teams need a few extra weeks to guarantee that.
Flame on! :) - firemaker103, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13I bet if Linux was mainstream, people would switch over to Windows...
Less people trying to target it. - crilen007, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10How are they obviously way behind? What evidence is there of this?
What evidence is there of your 2007-2008 theory? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Also, to people mercilessly raggin' on Vista, let's not forget the launch of OSX. It was also delayed (considerably so when you count the search for OS9's successor, too) and the first version was missing quite a few features (DVD? Oops!). Launching an operating system is very tough work for all involved, and you kind of have to expect these things to happen. Let's leave final judgement to when we have the final build Vista in our hands.
- tsbardella, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Now that I think about it the article did seem hysterical
- redsrule2500, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10Okay now I can tell you that this place is a Mac Fanboy hangout.
The original story, bashing MS, got TONS of diggs and comments galore.
This story, however, much less diggs and the first 10 comments were simple bashing. - iSEPIC, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8I'd say it would be more like a BMW, reinventing the ENTIRE car for each new model that comes out. It is a waste of time if the part is good enough. I mean, do you really need to update the siver in the rear view mirror coating for the next model?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Scoble is not one to lie, so when he says that his contacts on the Vista team told him something, I believe him. Still, with the frequent delays of Vista and Office, it's hard not to expect the rumor mills to fill in the blanks. Most of us know that Microsoft probably has very good reasons for delaying the rollout of Vista, but it's hard not to give credence to the rumors when they're the only real explanation at hand.
That being said, though, I can't wait to put Vista through its paces when it ships. Though I use a Mac as my primary machine, I do keep a PC around and I really want to see what Vista has to offer. - dominowrecker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4if linux was the only OS in town....I think computers in general would be looked at as a "geek thing" only. And would not be anywhere near as popular as they are today. Like um or hate um, MS brought computing to the masses with 95. It was a huge leap forward in terms of ease of use, and vendor standardization (and BSOD, but hey that was a long time ago)
Linux couldn't be mainstream because the interface on most distros is really really basic (and not in a good way). But more importantly cause there is no standard for the interface. Its different from distro, to distro. The only thing they all have in common is that they feel slapped together. Now I do think that a specific distro COULD work as a mainstream product (unbuntu for example), but that would require one distro to become the standard. Like it or not, computers need standards to work. Otherwise it will always be for geeks only.
I would like to say that I love Linux and use it a lot...but I am in terminal 90% of the time, or I dont use a front end at all (which is how I have my home machines set up). - GliTCH82, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Actually, according to this:
http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_Updates_Vista_Design_Tools/1142277862
WinFX is alive and kicking - Mysidia, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Really..
If everything were clean and good with these claims allegedly made by a MS spokesperson, then, clearly this _unnamed_ Microsoft spokesperson could say better than: "This is speculation with no demonstrable basis in fact,"
If anything, this announcement suggests something is amiss: otherwise, the spokesperson should have been identified by first and last name, AND rather than calling the article speculation, a clear and outright denial would have been made, rather than leave any question. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6InfoWorld says Microsoft is not telling the whole truth here...and that the problems are worse than Microsoft has admited.
http://www.infoworld.com/article/06/03/24/76795_HNvista...staprobsworse_1.html
More delays in the release schedule for Windows Vista revealed Friday hint that problems with getting the OS out the door may be broader than Microsoft has articulated.
eta testers familiar with Microsoft's (Profile, Products, Articles) plans to release test versions of the OS said that although Microsoft has said Vista development has been delayed a few weeks, the date the OS will be released to manufacturers has been pushed back two months.
Allchin characterized the delay in development as "a few weeks" on Tuesday's call. But a two-month change in the RTM of the product clearly suggests development is off track by more than that. Moreover, analysts said missing its target date for the holiday season gives Microsoft breathing room to push back Vista's release even further into 2007. - scott1, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7I asuming that your new to Digg.
- feedscott, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Prior to this delay of Vista, Microsoft has conveyed that new OS releases will not be dictated by time target tables. I think it is good that they are taking their time to get it as right as possible.
- baijubawra, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5here's what Robert Scoble (MS employee) has to say about the entire fiasco: http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/2006/03/24/rewrite-of-windows-vista-underway-hogwash/
- smiley2billion, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"let's not forget the launch of OSX. It was also delayed (considerably so when you count the search for OS9's successor, too)"
While that is a very good point, don't forget that OSX was rewritten completely with UNIX as its base. While MS has had the time frame since Windows XP (or server 2003) to write a new OS from the ground up, that's not what I think they're doing. I'm not quite sure why it's being delayed for so long considering how they dropped several of the appealing features of Vista. (WinFX, monad, etc).
Does anyone know if they're thinking about adding these features back in given the new release date? - queefer, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Wow so many lies submitted to Digg
- sirplus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3heheh.. i guess i must qualify my own comment. no one's software works! i could peck at OSX too and i do, daily. the fact is that software, when you include UI and the complexity of writing consumer software for multiple users and languages, god knows it's not easy. what's more i've had a lot of fun with the windows machines i've owned. 98 2E was the most stable and useful of the lot. NT4 on the other hand was essentially hell. i think that's why i love linux so much. it isn't janky.
- Philodox, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Heh, wasn't Vista supposed to be designed from the ground up with security in mind? If that's the case why are they focusing on adding it now?
- thushan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4well when something is delayed, obviously the rumour mill spins...
i doubt any such changes are made this late in the game, 60% of code-rewrite is an insane amount of work & code for windows... (unless its 60% of the media-center specific components - whether or not that includes directshow internals or other "video" related stuff) - drawkbox, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8they are obvioulsy way behind but working on 60% of code can mean refactoring, commenting, documentaiton, testing etc. 60% seems REALLY high considereing new code since Win95 is essentially about 10% of the code of the previous one. i.e. about 10-20% new code per OS update. To say 60% needs rework that seems like a very undetailed statement. What kind of rework? I know at our shopw and from experience there is always a code clean up period after all the grunt work is done. Seems like they are at that stage but I still dont' expect it until mid 2007 to 2008.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Your link didn't work for me, here's a correct one:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/06/03/24/76795_HNvistaprobsworse_1.html - baijubawra, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I buried your comment and for the records I am neither a MS fan boy nor a MS employee, and I guess if indeed digg is full of fanboys then it's anybody's guess which company they're fan of.
- JeremyCade, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Why is there constant comparison made between OSX and Windows?? They're two completely different beasts..
Just think about it for a second:
With OSX, you don't have to worry about backwards compatability, legacy devices, legacy software etc etc etc etc.. and yes, OSX does a good job for what it's designed...
Windows.. You have backwards compatablity, legacy devices, legeacy software..... I personally think Windows does a good job of handling that.. Even with all the security issues..
Even linux distro's dont' have that type of compatability.. Regardless what all you fanboys think... - chickenlegs, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3First, they have release candidates(beta) that works in the wild (check out all those Vista screenshots). Second, and most importantly, they had a bug in Internet Explorer that affected both 6 and 7. How could anyone believe 60%?
- swax, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Oh Reginald...I disagree!
those first 10 comments got their comeuppance - smiley2billion, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I was always under the impression that most businesses and the like have a "wait for SP1" attitude. How is MS going to over come that bias?
Also, if you're a Windows dev, how in the world do I get the Windows Calendar to talk to a server so I can post my calendar online somewhere?! I've got plenty of servers to post it to, just apparently not the know-how to do it. : - Petronski, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@projek7: LMFAO
- darthsnoopy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Digg isnt a fan of OSX, Unix, Or MS. They bash everyone equally.
We all know that Commodore 64 with GEOS was the best OS ever anyway. Can you digg...that? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3
US: Hey isn't security supposed to be a feature of Vista over previous(every) crappy Windows versions??
Microsoft: *****! Oh yeah, almost forgot. We will uh...hmmm.....uhhh.... whip something up right now. Give us a minute or two. /*runs off to find a consultant with a clue */ - GliTCH82, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2While they could very well delay the OS again and no one would be able to say anything about it, I highly doubt Microsoft is that incompetent.
They said part of the reason for the delay decision was to give OEMs enough time for a decent rollout, and given the timeframe involved that doesn't sound all too unreasonable.
In any case, while I am excited about having a new toy to play with and spending some of my free time getting to know Vista, I am perfectly content with my copy of Windows XP Professional at the moment - baijubawra, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3if you really want people to start using some MS alternative then you have to come with a software/os which appeals to the masses (i.e. non-geeky crowd), just telling people that MS is evil and hence you should use X or Y would never win you the majority. Fx for e.g. enjoys 10% (or whatever) market share not just because it's a non MS product but also it appeals to the masses somewhat.
bb - estvir, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3oh, and the same thing doesn't happen for apple and so on ? shh.
- sirplus, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5haha :) we'll see what's true.. they have to release it at some point. actually, none of their previous OS's have worked.. so if that continues, well, we'll never know if they re-wrote or not! who cares. why does anyone use their software? legacy, habit, ignorance.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Practically speaking there's no way MS could make major code changes at this stage and ship in January or February 2007. For most people Linux isn't a practical alternative. Most ordinary people don't install operating systems on computers. Instead they buy computers with OSs already installed. Linux has no hope of overtaking Windows and OS X unless major PC companies preinstall Linux on the majority of the systems they sell. PC companies won't do this until a majority of their customers insist on it.
- noamsml, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3I knew it! It's all just Windowblinds!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Don't want to release an OS where people say wait for SP1? When did this mentality start?
- lonnieh, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Clip from the article:
"Microsoft said that Vista is 'feature complete,' which means that the code writing process is basically over. 'The next phase of development focuses on security, testing and fit/finish - not writing new code,' the spokesperson added."
I'm all for Vista... but that quote makes me feel a bit uneasy. - inkswamp, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4So what's with the delays then?
- republicoftexas, on 10/12/2007, -8/+6Why are their so many MS lovers on digg? I thought smart & educated people frequent this site.
Go ahead and -digg me. I don't give a *****. - collywolly, on 10/12/2007, -8/+6"How are they obviously way behind? What evidence is there of this?"
Wasn't it supposed to be due out in 2003 to begin with? The fact they recently postponed the date to 2007 recently seems evidence to me...... - statmobile, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2You know, I don't fault SmartHouse as much as I fault us the digg community. People digg before reading, and I stand by my initial comments in the first posting where I pointed out the fact that the article was crap. Unfortunately, I think I too dugg it as something that needs to be shot down.
Apparently digg is getting so big that companies feel the need to respond to our "dugg" articles. Good for us, but in order to justify this attention we should take more care to critique our reading material before "digging" the link. I did notice that most comments agreed that the article wasn't worth the $$$ in bandwidth I spent to download it.
Maybe this implies we should also implement a minus digg system on the articles, so we have to stop seeing all these silly PR responses to ridiculous articles. Because after all, people seem to pay more attention to the diggs on the story than on the comments after the fact. Maybe I'm just expecting more of a slashdot system here, though. Well... just a thought. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1There is nothing that can be done to stop people from waiting for SP1--nothing. In IT departments, for starters, SOP is often all about ass covering. Installing a brand new OS before the first major patch release exposes the ass of the decision maker to raming if anything goes wrong.
This leaves aside the question of whether an OS SHOULD need a major patch release or not, that is a separate point.
Non-technical people will also likely want to wait. Ever since Windows 3.0, MS has trained people to wait for a secondary release that patches up holes. With XP they have even gotten people to expect patches first and then additional features (and patches) next. I really doubt this roll-out will be any different than the previous ones. OEMs first along with early-adopters/developers.
If MS is really trying to break this cycle then that is indeed ambitious but it won't have impact until the NEXT release (in 2013 I assume). - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2
You do know that MS has more shills running around in online forums and stuff doing their "bidding" (haha) than any other company.
They have a whole rewards program for people that do this for them with free MSDN subscriptions etc. They also encourage their employees to frequent sites like /., Digg, Ars etc to do the companies bidding. - ironcamel, on 10/12/2007, -8/+4Wow, all the anti-MS comments at the top got buried! This seems very fishy. Either digg is full of MS fanboys, or MS is behind this. Either way, this cannot be good for digg.
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