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178 Comments
- subgeniusd, on 10/12/2007, -26/+107Torvalds does not "overhype" anything....as if you have the slightest idea wtf you're talking about. Troll.
- philz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+38As a Swiss I must state that the QA for Swiss cheese is much better. Our cheese has got holes, but at least it has no bugs!
- rompom7, on 10/12/2007, -13/+47What are you on about? No one hypes Linux. Linux developers don't have marketing strategies or billion dollar promotional budgets. Nothing is being hyped. It's all real.
- 1iProd, on 10/12/2007, -8/+42"I don't actually think that something like Vista will change how people work that much."
I do.
It will make them work slower. - Zippo, on 10/12/2007, -9/+35Torvalds knocking down Windows? Shock and surprise! To be fair, I have to agree with him.
- conmulligan, on 10/12/2007, -7/+33"Like 98 would be more secure then 95?
Like Me would be more secure then 98?
Like 2000 would be more secure then Me?
Like XP would be more secure then 2000?"
Where the ***** have you been, every Windows release has been more secure than previous versions; remarkably so with Windows 2000. - baxtermaddux, on 10/12/2007, -9/+35i would think Linux is a pretty damn big deal. especially for a product that generates zero dollars from the distribution of it. unlike windows which is able to take your first born baby and castrate it
- somerandomnerd, on 10/12/2007, -8/+33@bias;
Newsflash- nobody wants you to use Linux. You clearly don't want to use Linux. So why are you trolling about it?
Linux users are in favour of more people joining the Linux community, because it benefits the community. However, don't make the mistake of thinking that means that every single Linux user wants everyone to use Linux, because obviously not everyone would benefit from it, or be a benefit to the community.
For example, someone who complains about things that don't work "out of the box" on Linux, which also don't work "out of the box" on Windows tends to flag themselves as someone with a chip on their shoulder who doesn't know what they are talking about, and therefore unlikely to contribute anything useful to the community.
Someone who does it in the comments to a Digg story about Linus Torvalds criticising Vista tends to flag themselves as a Windows fanboy.
Microsoft made an OS so simple that it meant even idiots can use computers. The problem is that idiots now use computers... - rompom7, on 10/12/2007, -7/+32I stick up for Microsoft when Apple fanboys start bashing. But damn fs77, you have no idea what you are talking about do you?
This is why Apple fanboys hate Windows users: because they think they are all like fs77.
@fs77: You can't rate how good a product is by its success. There are countless products that are better than existing products, but never make it to the top (Dvorak keyboard, Firefox, etc)
Microsoft made a deal with IBM, that is how they 'revolutionized' the computer industry.
I don't care who you are, if you cannot respect what Linus Torvalds has done, then gtfo my internets. - drizek, on 10/12/2007, -9/+31"BSD > Linux"
Brought to you by a second rate fanboy. - jellygraph, on 10/12/2007, -12/+33And Linus Torvalds would be absolutely correct. There is hardly anything evolutionary, let alone revolutionary, about Windows Vista. It's a step backwards, in many ways... and, when you get to the bottom of it, Windows Vista is pretty much only about getting Hollywood's DRM built directly into the operating system. There's not much more than that.
So there you have it, boys and girls. Windows Vista is a trojan horse, wrapped up in a fancy(-er) interface.
I feel sorry for you guys, who will buy into it.
Stick to XP or switch to Linux or OSX. This, coming from someone who was absolutely excited about Vista until about a year and a half ago. - schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -17/+35You want it from an unbiased source? There you go, troll.
Full Disclosure: Windows--New! Improved! Yada Yada Yada!
,----[ Quote ]
| Every Microsoft upgrade sets a new standard--in hype.
|
| [...]
|
| I'm not masochistic enough to test Microsoft's betas and release
| candidates. The final product is usually rough enough; and as I write,
| that's not yet available. But I've seen the demos and read the propaganda
| and first looks. Vista promises a lot of potentially useful new stuff. But
| for now I can think of only one reason to worry about the thing: It will
| come with your next PC.
`----
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,127927-c,vistalonghorn/article.html - paulmdx, on 10/12/2007, -6/+24Linux has revolutionised the computer industry. However that doesn't change the fact Windows is *hugely* more successful than Linux.
- M2Ys4U, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17My Troll-o-meter is going nuts reading these comments.
- alx242, on 10/12/2007, -7/+22@bias:
Well it's kinda easy to tell if something is overhyped by looking on the specs to see what i delivers vs why everyone wants it. That is when something should be classified as overhyped or not. As it is people should stick with XP seeing as it delivers most of the bang for the buck vs vista.
As for your comments on Linux you haven't got a clue to what you are talking about! - stuf, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17There's one thing annoys the hell out of me with Windows. It's not Windows per se — but it's the constant brainfarts I feel that Microsoft made when designing their product. That's actually one reason why I switched over to Apple, because when I'm OSX, it can take days before the OS itself has something to tell me, or I notice the OS itself. I know, these are some incredibly small things and many people might think that I shouldn't be using a computer at all , but for me, some of these things are really frustrating and they make the user experience worse.
Now, I don't mean to start the traditional Windows vs OS X war, but here are a few points I have noticed with my somewhat long experience with working in Windows — the most recent one that I came to think about is how XP for instance is nagging about cleaning up your desktop icons, *even when they're hidden*. I know for one thing that I usually use the desktop for alot of stuff, and hide the icons because I rarely have to use it anyway, and this is something that I feel that Windows is screwing up with; it doesn't take into account the things you have done, e.g. hid your desktop icons.
Then, let's take another thing — dialogs. The thing that strikes me with the dialog boxes in Windows is that they rarely tell you in a coherent way what the dialog does. Of course, you have the usual "The text in the file X has changed. Do you want to save changes?" dialog box — with Yes, No and Cancel buttons. This is just normal, right? Usually, the normal user would just click the button that they think is the right choice — and I think anybody who has worked as computer support knows, that when people work a little bit longer with computers, they stop reading the dialogs and go with routine — and this usually ends up in something being lost; "I clicked that one button and it disappeared". Another example of stupid dialog boxes is the WinXP Safe Mode prompt, when you get to choose whether you want to go to Safe Mode or System Recovery; "Press Yes to continue to Safe Mode, No to go to System Recovery", followed with a dialog box filled with a lot of text. What I do like, is the OSX way of dialog boxes; they have the same text, usually, but instead of having a generic Yes/No/Cancel-selection of buttons, the buttons themselves are captioned by what they do when you press them — e.g. "Save/Don't Save/Cancel".
As with Vista, the user access control is another nice feature, that I'm puzzled over what it's supposed to do. Sure, it's supposed to have your attention when a program wants to do something what the program isn't supposed to do. I've grown a bit tired in "authenticating" — or to put it more accurately — "approving" the actions programs want to take. I'll go to the Task Manager, start up the Resource Monitor - I get to click the approve button there already once. I wish to install Firefox? Sure, after I approve.
Of course — after the initial installation, I'm being bombarded with tips, tricks, tutorials and balloon tips what I can and can't do. There isn't even a checkbox anywhere, that I have the possibility to tell the System that "Yes, I have used Windows before and I would not like to receive any notification [about new features]." This is the thing that frustrates me — the System is so in my face the whole time, that it distracts me from the work I'm supposed to do, instead of babysitting the computer.
But this is just me. I'm sure there are somebody who agrees with these things and some others that think that maybe I should stop using computers. Maybe I should — because with the current usability and frustration, I think we'd be better off. - Guard, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16I've tried using Linux on my desktop, however I've ran into many problems across multiple builds.
Installing graphic card drivers failed on every build was my major problem and my ATI Radeon X1900 was never installed correctly.
Theres nothing wrong with Linux itself, the main problem rests in that there is no common build. Too many versions out there (SUSE, openSUSE, Knoppix, Debian, Red Hat, the list goes on and on) means software and drivers developed for one might not work for another, and having to compile code yourself when you want a program isn't what I want to be doing. Most companies I've seen don't even attempt to make Linux ports of their products, resulting in a lower application base and having to rely on the open source community for any software you need. - neko, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17Really? Because I wish Steve Ballmer would stop slandering my OS of choice, and suggesting I owe him money for using it.
- alx242, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13I would never like to copy a badly written file-system, an inferior web server, a crappy database, a drm-controlling system, a locked down media system, a almost total lack of customizing the os, a ***** none standardized web browser...now think again!
- zetsurin, on 10/12/2007, -8/+19Yeah, Ubuntu in particular has never been hyped. Ever. /sarcasm
- Syntaxis, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17Different needs, different operating systems.
GAMES: Windows Vista, mostly because of DirectX 10.
OFFICE: Windows XP, it just works. Reason: Software/driver compatibility.
DESIGN: Mac is hot, but Photoshop/Illustrator etc. work fine on Windows, too.
SERVER: For PHP definately Linux/Unix, for .Net definately a Windows server.
Technically Linux should be best because of all the free software. Realistically the learning curve to get regular people to work with Linux is far too high.
Besides that, I play games. A lot of games. Among others World of Warcraft. As do ~10 million other people around the globe. That means there's 10 million people who will need a Windows of Mac OS in order to play World of Warcraft. Oh, sure.. Ubuntu with WINE can run it, but yeah.. before you have installed THAT properly, your friends are already level 70.. - ajifans, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15After installing many different flavours in Windows and Linux, I've found that hardware recognition is greater in Linux.
With windows I need to visit 3P sites and download drivers, in Linux they are recognised straight away.
Admittedly wireless recognition is a bit of a bugbear for some distributions, but that is purely the fault of the wireless card manufacturers. - Shirokun, on 10/12/2007, -11/+20Actually Linux did revolutionize the computer industry. 90% of the servers run Linux.
Now Linux just needs the desktop users.
Why Linux and not apple or Microsoft?
Because it's free and open source. Everyone in the world should be able to afford a computer without having to pay hundreds of dollars for an Operating System. Specially students.
My philosophy: Better open source than proprietary Software. - viktro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Way to make headline based on 1 sentence that has little to do with the article itself.
- groovemaneuver, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12Oh there's more to it than that... forced hardware upgrade, forced application software upgrade, forced infrastructural support software upgrade, etc.
- srg13, on 10/12/2007, -11/+18"As for your comments on Linux you haven't got a clue to what you are talking about!"
Funny, that was exactly what I thought when I read your comment, bias.
"poor GUI, poor compatibility, poor softwares support, poor hardware support, the least user friendly OS in the market"
What is your source on these claims... It's obvious that you have absolutely no first hand experience with a recent Linux distribution. - BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8"""Sure, because spending hours trying to get my hardware recognized by (insert Linux distro here) is being more productive."""
Another piece of unfounded negativity from someone who sat tearing their hair out and weeping because the ubuntu installer asked them "yes or no", or the SuSE manual told them to use sysconfig when they wanted control panel.
Hardware support is generally included with the OS for most stuff, meaning zero tweaktime for your average (say) SuSE user who wants to do work on it, and Linux has very decent hardware support on the scale of things.
I can only conclude from the average installation experience of the windows zealots around here that they are either 1. lying or 2. retarded.
As it happens, no windows user I know is like that, where do these people come from?
You know, you guys make it painfully obvious you haven't spent 30 seconds using Linux.
(OMG I SPENT FOwR HOURS RECOMPILING MY KERNEL TO USE EXT3 LOL!!!, I HAD TO GO ON ANTIDEPRESSANTS LOOKIUNG FOR THE START BUTTON LOL!!! OMG I ate my own knuckles because it asked me for a password and I couldn't remember the random password I made LOL!! OMG LINUX ISN'T READY FOR THE DESKTOP BECAUSE I TRIED TO PLAY MP3S IN XPDF AND IT DIDNT WORK LOL!!!)
You're the same about the Mac GUI too, it makes me wonder how you guys get through life without swallowing your own tongues.
Keep windows - Microsoft will take care of you. :) - Oldschoolhack, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Yeah, go figure. People enjoying an operating system and helping eachother out on forums... thats just odd. //sarcasm
- mooninite, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Wine and WoW have been working *perfectly* (read NO CONFIGURATION REQUIRED) for the past year.
I don't like people like you.
I've switched exclusively to Linux a few months ago. I was a *huge* Windows gamer. I started on MS-DOS 4.0. Microsoft lost a customer when it stopped innovating. I haven't used Windows since switching to Linux. No need to. - uownedge, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Well, over all, Linus is right. Vista is over-hyped. At one time, maybe not. If you think back a few years, when Vista was supposed to be out, it boasted a lot of things that actually were new, good, useful features. Now step back and take a look at what Vista has become. For just one moment, completely disregard your own personal choice of OS. Now look at the "new" features in Vista. Look at the "innovations". Now think about it. Is any of this stuff actually new? Is any of it really ground breaking? Hell, half of it isn't even necessary. Yes, it's good that Microsoft has finally brought an update to it's OS, but quite honestly, I don't believe it lives up to the hype at all.
I'm not just trying to bash Microsoft here, but you need to put things into perspective before you jump on the bandwagon. Regardless of which bandwagon you're jumping on (Microsoft, Apple, Linux, whatever). If Windows is the OS you prefer, that's just fine, and if you really think Vista offers you something that you didn't have before, by all means, go buy it.
Seriously people, look at what you're saying. What if this had been written by a Journalist for a prominent news magazine. I bet you wouldn't be jumping all over Linux then, huh? How about if Steve Jobs wrote it? Then it'd be Apple that's the problem. Mean ol' Apple, bashing on Microsoft like that!
Just settle down and take the article for what it's worth. You're all going to have strokes by the age of 16 if you don't cool it. It's just not healthy! - spider-man, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Microsoft's latest desktop effort is over-hyped"
Got anything else to tell us professor obvious? Can anyone remember the last time something WASN'T over-hyped by Microsoft? Or Apple or tons of other companies for that matter? - alfredomancho, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6You guys missed the point. jamble implied that Linus' comment was biased. How can anyone argue with that?
- MVP6100, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I'm pretty sure I wont get Vista, UT2007 will be Linux compatible and that is all that matters for me. Personally I don't know anyone that is hyped in a positive way about Vista.
- alx242, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Well he does that already but still if someone asks him a question he will still answer it (something that can't be said about the MS call-center). No go back to rebooting your computer or something else you prefer doing.
- ArchAngel21x, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11I am switching to OS X
- zetsurin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Linus doesn't realise that he is helping to hype Vista by saying that.
And to the poster above, DLL hell in Windows is replaced with RPM hell in Linux (various distros).
(PS. I am not a Windows user, just develop on it by day as I want to earn more than a 3rd world salary). - vheissu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Not that I'm a huge fan of Vista, but if anything is over hyped its any and all Apple products.
- raynevandunem, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10The Linux press does hype it quite a bit, however. Especially that no-talent hack of a "journalist" from Ziff Davis and Linux-Watch, Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols.
The only point where I can call it OVERhyped is when some distro can get onto TV commercials and newspaper ads (like WinVista).
I mean, that's also a sign that it's made it big, but at what price glory? - zeitgueist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4In other news, Linus Torvalds stated that "George Bush has been bad for the US's image", "Grass is green", and "M. Knight Shyamalan hasn't made a good movie since the sixth sense".
Seriously, if he took a *****, somebody would post on Digg if there was corn in it. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I love how everybody diggs down counter points, even if they are valid or respectable. It's like there is only one way of thinking at this site and the sheep just chug right along. lol
- Oldschoolhack, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Thats funny, I don't remember viruses being too much an issue for Linux. Why don't you go back to playing WoW, and let those who know whats going on in the real world talk.
- BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I'll say this for Apple, they have consistently innovated for years and years.
By that, I don't mean "innovated" as a marketing term, I mean they have clearly had good ideas and implemented them, and done it well, always making an effort to provide good stuff for people.
There are things about their approach now I don't agree with, and they are no less "proprietary" minded than any other company, and they've a tendency to make silly/technologically bad decisions every now and then like most companies, but you just cannot argue that Apple aren't out to work damned hard on the software and make NEW STUFF, because that's exactly what they do.
In fact, as far as proprietary operating system software goes, I think they make fools of Microsoft, even if their product isn't perfect (whose is?).
"While most of the "touted" new features of OS X over the years have been less than impressive in the long run (widgets for example) some have been absolute time savers. Because I don't want to turn this into a long discourse I'll mention only two. One has been Expose. Being able to tile every window on my desktop has been a huge time saver. Compared to the Dock or even Window's Taskbar, it is brilliant. Of course you can get something very similar on Windows and Linux, but it's not built in which is the point. Most people running Windows aren't going to know where to find it or that it even exists."
I don't think the Linux thing is entirely similar, scale is a bit better, but shouts a bit less about what it is (note the name "scale" vs "Expose". I do think that just this once Apple should take the hot corners idea from compiz and implement it, I'm almost certain nobody would mind - it works according to Fitt's Law and is actually replacing alt+tab for me, a lifelong keyboard shortcuts junkie - you just rush the mouse to your chosen corner, get the instant hardware-accelerated scale effect and choose or watch. alt+tab and f12 become a tiny, instinctively correct mouse movement.
My apologies if this is already implemented in OS X, I don't use it much and the last time I did it was just a key to use Expose.
"""The second feature isn't really a feature in the truest sense of the word. Every computer that I've put a new version of OS X on (starting with 10.2 which IMO was the first one worth a damn) has run faster than it did with the previous version. I can't say this about the various computers I've run with Windows starting with Win98. Each has run slower with the default hardware that the machine came with. Since I haven't seriously played with Linux, I can't say if the experience is the same."""
Yes, it generally is - by and large end user desktop experience gets better and better. Of course, since everything from the installed selection to the kernel clock is at the user's discretion (you could choose the latest installation of the fattest DE out there, and run lots of unnecessary servers and stuff, if you wanted), this seems less meaningful, but we Linux users, like you guys, are used to getting consistently better and better products as time goes on.
"""Back on topic: Linus doesn't like Windows. He helped to create an alternative, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that he's not impressed with Vista."""
Of course - but again, Linus doesn't tend to melodrama like certain parties. There are the Stallmans and Ballmers of this world who can barely contain their passion, then there are your Torvaldses, who you can honestly believe are interested in Technological Achievement and Software Freedom in the most rational sense. - bangmalley, on 08/30/2008, -3/+6ya. Vista doesn't improve productivity. Vista is created just to make sure that M$ still monopoly. I think this is very selfish. M$ just focus on money/market share not on users. What's the use of nice interface if you can't do things efficiently? I think most users want something that can improve productivity.
- Oldschoolhack, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Funny, I'd rather a person who actually created something get paid a bunch of money rather than a man who runs up and down a platform screaming developers.
- 21chrisp, on 10/12/2007, -11/+14"because spending hours trying to get my hardware recognized by (insert Linux distro here) is being more productive."
I just haven't had this problem in ages. It seems a default install of Windows almost never works though... Have you tried installing Linux within the past.. 3-4 years or so? Most Ubuntu installs take 20-30 minutes, which mostly just consists of copying the files. - alx242, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You would not want Stallman as the front person, believe me besides he already is the front figure towards GNU. Eric Raymond is the best person person to represent Linux/GNU in my opinion. Also you are forgetting the kernel is what everything else is based on. If it wasn't for that none of all the sweetness of Gnome etc would have flourished as much as it has. Yes there are alternatives to Linux but it is still the kernel with best hardware support seen today, not even Microsoft comes close (no it doesn't cause every time you get some bloody specific hardware you depend on 3rd party drivers, that is not the same thing as the kernel people).
- scottjl, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4vista isn't "overhyped" it's called "marketing".
- BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4When Steve Ballmer "strongly implies" that there is Microsoft's work in Linux, he KNOWS it is not true (as any programmer is well aware) and is simply making a mean-spirited and devious attempt to hurt Linux through creating false impressions of it.
We develop as part of a community, and don't necessarily agree with the political zealots and their loonfest about Vista (although to be fair, even the rants of Stallman largely have a robust kernel of truth - pun intended) - but Steve Ballmer has decided to knowingly create the false impression our pre-existing work infringes his company's IP to bolster his pocket.
For those reasons, it's pretty hard to sympathise with their OS, even if it gets a raw deal.
By the way, it's been "rumoured" that "strongly imply" is a term used internally at Microsoft to mean "lie" - as part of their policy in dealing with clients.
A good, completely hypothetical example example would be a quote like "if this bug manifests itself before then, we should strongly imply error on their part without actually saying it". - alfredomancho, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5ok, how's this: Ronald McDonald says that Burger King's new sandwich is overhyped.
Is Ronald's comment biased? - diggsIt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I'm sure Vista is very nice. It's no where near the value that Linux is though.
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