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111 Comments
- furtwan1, on 10/12/2007, -25/+73beta still means "beta" at Microsoft. get over it.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+45"Agreed. Reviews on products that are Beta shouldn't count."
Then Microsoft shouldn't release them publicly for review. OF COURSE a beta should be reviewed--that's the point of a beta, so you can improve the product before final release!
Sheesh, come on, people... - SteaminTmann, on 10/12/2007, -0/+22Nothing is worse than coding your page up, only to test it in IE6 (after firefox and safari which come out perfect) and it's all f'd up,and you know you have to fix it because that's 85% of your audience. There's no reason why it should be that way.
- SuperSloth, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15I have no problem with them releasing a beta. I have no problem with reviewers writing reviews of a beta. I do have a problem with reviewers reviwing a beta and having their number one complaint be "it's buggy". It's a beta. It's not a release candidate.
MS says that Beta 2 is LAYOUT COMPLETE. It says *nothing* about being *feature* complete. All this means is that there won't be any new menus or toolbars or crap like that that appear between now and RTM. It's exactly what MS said it is: an example of how IE 7 will look and feel, and what some of the promised features actually do. - KYDS3K, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15"jumping up-and-down and spitting nickels"???
- tempusrob, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13IE7 won't have real XHTML (read: application/xhtml+xml) support.
- onceler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10The web developers still care. We would like a product that will make our lives in the future easier. The majority of the users haven't switched browsers because they have something that works and they do not know there is something better out there. With IE7, it will be a logical upgrade (possibly even forced or at least included in Windows Update). Once this user group, or at least the majority of this user group migrate over, we as web developers will at least begin to see an end to our troubles and a wider adoption of true web standards.
- burke, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Willingly? I doubt it.
Blindly? Oh, hell yes. - mistshadow2k4, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9you firefox hating, internet explorer loving, netflix hating, blockbuster hugging, windows kissing idiots need to get a clue...
- burke, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7At least they're releasing betas. It seems they're taking a page (admittedly more of a footnote) from the firefox development paradigm, which, by it's very nature has new versions available more than hourly.
Betas generate feedback on bugs, which we all know is exactly IE needs. - kolanos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6If there was ever a positive use for a virus, it would be this:
Use an IE exploit to install Firefox with a theme that looks just like IE, then change the Internet Explorer shortcuts on the desktop and the Start menu to run Firefox.
At the very least it would allow web developers to sleep at night. - MHZmaster, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Well, then they don't get to control/own the internet. What kind of a question is that? And Microsoft would never endorse an open source product, anyway.
- burnt1ce85, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12All the smart software engineers that was working for Microsoft went to google.
- tempusrob, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I dunno if you're trying to incite flames or if it's an honest quesition, but I'll assume the latter.
A lot of corporate development banks on certain IE features, be it ActiveX or its "unique" CSS behaviour or whatever. To completely abandon IE would be to completely abandon a good chunk of the corporate sector. This is part of the reason there's been so little change in IE since IE6. It's also why MS is being *very* cautious with how they go about fixing all of IE's problems.
A lot of standalone applications also hook into IE for display functions, so it needs to be there in that respect, too. - Lumiras, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I really don't know why people still care about this. The people who are in the know already use Firefox or Opera, and they already have all the features that IE7 will offer
- teamparadox, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10its still months from being final, give it up already. i could care less if the beta sucks and is full of bugs as long as they use the feedback they are getting from these beta tests to improve the product which they are because Beta 2 is alot better then Beta 1, and Beta 1 was a whole hell of alot better then the Alpha builds.
- theone3, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8As long as it brings genuine xhtml, css, transparent pngs, tab support and font smoothing to a wider audience, I'm all for it. Screw the interface and screw the bugs. Frankly, I'm not going to be using it anyway. But if it gives me those design tools, I'm happy.
And, to give Microsoft some credit, beta really does mean beta around there, and this article does seem heavily biased. - fredclown, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Firefox doesn't pass ACID2. Neither does Opera. The daily build does, but the real build doesn't. Also ACID2 is a flawed test. It does not assess the CSS spec but rather bleeding edge recommendations. Molly Holtzschlag of WASP has even said that when they do ACID3 they would do it differently. Many of the features in ACID2 are only recommendations and have not been officially added into the CSS specs. They could be easily revoked, and then you have the same issue that Microsoft is in right now ... adding features that are later revoked.
- msaleem, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10About time people switched to firefox then, no?
- dixonr315, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6"Paul Thurott is cautiously optimistic"
Now there is a surprise, lol. - dougbdl, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5My IE7 beta crashes here on digg like nutz. Alot of the time I unbury a comment or digg an article and BAM!
I send the error report though, because it HAS to work on digg.com! - cavanaughphoto, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10"Overall, given Microsoft's timeline and presumed budget for the new browser, it's disappointing that this first beta version of IE7 feels more like a catch-up than a truly innovative new product."
When has Microsoft been innovative? - babelfishi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The funny thing is that they IE decided microsoft's own site is a phishing website....
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/reviews/ie7_beta1_suspicious.jpg - MHZmaster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4All I know is that a Microsoft product that crashes repeatedly on msn.com is not a good thing. I seriously had to open it 3 times before it would stay open for more than a minute... And it couldn't fully load digg without crashing. Thank god for Firefox!
- gigabitten, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7how is it a monopoly if there is firefox.... and apple..... and google.... and linux... monopoly would mean there are no other options.
- FullMetalMonkey, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12Releasing a Beta for an Application. $0
Releasing a 2nd Beta for the same Application. $0
Application still not working right. Priceless!
There are some browsers that don't work. For everyone else there is Firefox. - thecwin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4In theory, if their browser architecture is well made, they should be able to implement XHTML a lot quicker than it'll be to fix their strange HTML parsing.
Can't they at least push it through an XML parser or even have it accept application/xhtml+xml.. just so we don't need to use strange apache config or server side languages depending on the server to serve xhtml pages...
I just wish companies (and indeed OSS projects) used the "Release when ready" idea, rather than releasing it when it's buggy and unfinished because of some deadline (unless of course they use the deadline as one of the main features of the product). - msaleem, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5perhaps that is due to compatability issues if the version of ie7 is different from version if vista beta...
- babelfishi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Also, it seems that step 1 of download IE 7 Beta 2 is to add their site to your favorites...how retarded is that?!
"Step 1: ADD THIS PAGE TO YOUR FAVORITES"
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/ie7/ie7betaredirect.mspx - Splitz, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Those who think the article is unfairly biased should try googling: IE7b2 OR "Internet Explorer 7 Beta 2" review
- KielEWyote, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3We've come a long way from the Netscape days when everyone was mad that Microsoft came and monopolized the browser market. Well folks, they've gotten what they deserve... Firefox is much better than what Microsoft is putting out. But I will agree with everyone on here, it IS still in Beta... so you can cut them a little slack. I don't even care anymore, I just stick to Firefox and love it.
- richardtallent, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Now that I've been testing it a few months on my sites, my biggest issues are:
- no support for min/max height/width, a real issue now that they use the CSS "content-box" model for width/height
- no support for border-box
- no support for outline
- no support for CSS attribute selectors - fredinator, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I hate the way that in IE7 the menu bar is in the middle of the address bar and the tab bar... can't MS follow their own design principles?
- quesera, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7"Layout complete" does not mean "GUI complete". It means "rendering engine feature complete", which is exactly the problem.
If IE7 doesn't pass ACID2, it shouldn't be released. Microsoft is a big company. They should be able to play with the big boys. If they can't, they should stop wasting our time. - scotty1024, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3My worst IE 7 offense? On Vista 5308 IE7 breaks Microsoft's MS Reader Activation. I have been unable to register their DRM so I am unable to read my eBooks.
When Microsoft can't keep their DRM working it truly becomes bad news time for those owning DRM content. - siouxmoux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3When you run Soulseek with installed ie7 beta2 you get an Unsupported operation was attempted error Dialog box. Hint Hint Soulseek is trying tell you. You should be running Firefox or Opera. ;-)
- spyres, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Folks out there offer .msi versions of Firefox that can be pushed to users machines to easily effect upgrades via group policy.
http://www.frontmotion.com/Firefox/
Got any more FUD you'd like to share? - ForbesBingley, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I've found Safari to have more than its fair share of problems. It's certainly not perfect. I'm still waiting for Camino to make that last 5% of effort and give me a reason to use it more often...
- MindTrigger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3
In terms of software, Beta usually means the major feature set has been frozen, and bugs are being hunted down. I wouldn't expect any major changes to IE7 functionality. They may make a few tweaks here and there, but this *should* be close to final. - scutter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I ran beta1 with no major problems. Beta2 had more features implemented, but it was a big steaming turd IMHO. I couldn't even use it to access the sharepoint sites at work (I could get there, but things like saving and editing files didn't work).
- nayr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3...called alpha. except they don't call it that.
- Wavey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4That was the wrong saying for the context. Jumping up and down spitting nickels = being really mad, ranting and raving...spittin' mad.
A more appropriate phrase would have been something like, "...they aren't exactly waving their arms in the air and shouting Hallelujah..." - JasonPrini, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It fried one of our new Dual Core Dell desktops when we installed it.... 4 hours later I had XP reinstalled and prepping Ghosting for future IE 7 beta releases.
It's such a shame that most users online don't even know what a browser is.... - Bigcat1021, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"All the smart software engineers that was working for Microsoft went to google."
http://mattgemmell.com/2006/04/08/the-grammarian#more-226 - SuperSloth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3But the thing is, MS has said it's *not* feature complete. It's only *layout* complete. Read the main MS website for the IE 7 Beta.
- mistshadow2k4, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3People keep saying "well, it's a beta, of course it's buggy". How long has it been beta now? I'm not sure, but it's been months. Has firefox ever been in beta this long? Considering that Microsoft has a helluva lot more money to throw at this project than the Mozilla foundation does for firefox, why is IE 7 still in beta?
- dchesterton, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The lastest build from Mix06 does support min/max-width/height. Personally i'm very pleased with the latest IE releases, I will forever be a Firefox user but it's good to see that Microsoft has finally woken up to web standards and is working as hard as they can to implement them in IE 7
- fredclown, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4No one has even bothered to mention that in a corporate environment Firefox is very difficult to implement. How do you make sure that your users have an up to date copy of Firefox in a corporate institution? There is no way to push out new versions. With IE you can use SUS or something similar to make sure that the machine's copy of IE is the most up to date.
- akinder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I don't use Firefox, I only have 512mb of ram.
- tidejwe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2True, but you have to realize they are doing stupid things. I had beta 1, I had beta 2 preview, then I have the officially released beta 2 and it's just gotten worse! I tried to switch back to beta 2 preview, but it won't let me anymore, I am stuck with the crappy beta 2 that degressed. For example, when you hit CTRL-TAB in beta two it doesn't cycle through the tabs from left to right in any kind of order, it cycles through them in seemingly random order, and if you quit pressing CTRL-TAB for more than 5 seconds, it makes you start over from the beginning of the cycle. Beta 1 and beta 2 preview didn't do that. Also, on the right side of the tabs thing there is a toolbar that can't be moved or removed anymore and is really annoying. Also, if you have several tabs up, if they go off the screen, instead of following the tab you're on like the previous versions, you are simply off-screen until you manually click the double arrows on the last tab to move over to view the others. REALLY ANNOYING! There are other minor issues as well, but I found that I could fix most of those with the "OPTIONS" but at least those three didn't have an option...I LOVED IE Beta 2 preview, but the official public beta 2 REALLY SUCKS! I find myself going back to firefox more often now whereas I used to be addicted to the new IE7 betas...I was becoming a fan of IE again...it WAS a good program till they officially released it and made stupid changes that you can't fix with options...
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