What is Digg?94 Comments
- lane.montgomery, on 10/12/2007, -4/+25Dugg, but it sounds like this is all "imagined". I don't think the company mentioned is supposed to be real.
- Dradis, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15It's a nice article, and for business owners out there who didn't already know about the software mentioned, a good resource.. but for many I think this article won't provide anything new.
Dugg for the OSS beginners though. - boredzo, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15dugg, but reported as inaccurate because the title and description aren't clear that this is a hypothesis, not an actual company.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11One more thing on Compiere,
Imagine a company where each and every user has to pay a $120 *yearly subscription* to access the manual
http://www.compiere.com/wstore - curlewfish, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10The white text on white background links at the bottom about insurance makes this page seem pretty suspicious, although I imagine that would cause a low pagerank. I can't tell if that's a Blogspot-based ad or not.
- aractor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8"...let's put some perspective in this, shall we. Propritary software costs money, but having poor UI, no decent manuals, having to wait until some programmer halfway around the world gets some free time from his busy life to fix things, and not having anyone to call when you have problems or find bugs could cost a hell of a lot more."
While true, I have had the exact same issues with closed source software. So to say that like it is a specific issue with open source software is just wrong. As for waiting for a programmer to have the free time to fix things...Do we not all have to wait for closed source software companies to release updates/patches on their time? While with open source technically anyone can grab a copy of the source code (Even you if you were so inclined to learn how to code for the specific language), and fix whatever the bug or error is right there on the spot. Suddenly it is all fixed. Granted, I'm not saying that really happens very often but the possibility is there.
As for not having anyone to call when you have problems, well I don't know which open source software you've been using but all the ones you mentioned have an amazing community following who are more than willing to help with any problems you might be having. Sure you might have to wait for a forum response in order to figure it out, but is that really so much worse than waiting on hold or talking to some foreign outsourced tech support rep? - murdoch, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12Going open source is great but at the same time there are some hidden costs. Unix systems administrators do command a higher salary than MCSA's do. MCSA's are pretty common and not as hard to find. SalaryExpert.com lists Unix Systems Administrators, nationally have an average annual income of 66,939 where MCSA's have an average income of 29,993.
http://www.salaryexpert.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=Free_Salary_NA.Report&DC=Yes&job=104408&zip=&area=064480&JobCategory=unknown&JobAvailabilitySourceVar=28
http://www.salaryexpert.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=Free_Salary_NA.Report&DC=Yes&job=97914&zip=&area=064480&JobCategory=unknown&JobAvailabilitySourceVar=28 - aractor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7What a nice concept...And that is exactly what it is, a concept. The author makes no statement that this idea is easy to do, or even simple to do, just that it is possible to do. All while lightly poking fun at closed source software.
@Murdoch: As for needing Unix Sys Admins, I just don't think (At least in this case) all that would really be needed. The example used here is, from my understanding, a relatively small personal company. Now if you start to expand this idea to a much larger scale, of course you're right, but when looking at the article it seems clear to me that the suggestion is saving costs when dealing with smaller businesses. - sporkwitch, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11Actually, yes, a properly configured Linux install is just as usable as windows, just as easily (depending on the distro.)
An old girlfriend of mine knows NOTHING of computers (as in I had to show her how to set up a myspace account when she wanted to see her friends myspace accounts). When we walked into the local coffee shop we always hung out at (we're good friends with the owner and employees, great people,and techies) she sat down a the computer that was set up for the customers to use. She sat there, hanging out, surfing the net, and checking her mail and myspace.
About half an hour later I went over to see what she was up to. I noticed that it was a new computer she was using (since we had another one already, and that was a second that wasn't there before). Asked her what it was running and she was like "oh, it's just windows." On closer inspection (i.e. I actually looked at the computer) I noticed that it was Gentoo Linux.
Gentoo isn't known for being the ultimate user-friendly linux distribution (unlike Lindows or Linare, and other similar ones), as such I think this is a great example. Someone with little to no knowledge of computers, let alone Linux, sat using a well-configured machine for an extended period of time, and all the while, never realized it wasn't windows (though personally the fact that it didn't crash at any point would have given it away to me :P) - naich, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9Linux is just as useable as Windows. If you want to, you can set it up to look and behave exactly like Windows and your average user sitting down in front of it wouldn't know the difference. My GF and my sister (neither of who are in any way geeky) both use Linux at home with no trouble whatsoever. If someone is used to Windows, get them over the initial shock of "oh my god, Linux looks different", and they are fine.
- DoubtfulSalmon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Well spotted. Google's http://www.google.com/contact/spamreport.html spam report is your friend!
- prockcore, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I don't get it.. there are plenty of companies that are 100% opensource. Ernie Ball switched 100% linux after being raided by the BSA. Four years later, they're doing great.
A lot of companies (like OSDN, digg, etc) are 100% web based.. the only thing you need is a browser and the ability to ssh. No reason they couldn't be completely opensource. - WDot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5If your company is called "Doug's Discount Paints," you should take the money you save from Open Source and pour that into some marketing, post-haste. =P
- addw, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Yes Unix/Linux admins might charge more ... but study after study has shown that they can look after many more machines, so the cost/administered_machine is lower.
- DoubtfulSalmon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Jusr some tips on reporting the site as spam in google's search results. Scroll down to the white-on-white spam, cut/paste the text (not the link) of one of the 'hidden' insurance spam links in to google. Confirm that the google page
that is returned links back to one of his spam pages, then fill out the google spam report with the information from the search query, search results and destination page.
The page that this digg report links to doesn't seem to be in google's db yet, so it won't be this one you're reporting, but this guy has the same insurance and domain squat scam linked on all of his non-front pages. - ninti, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Sigh. And if you think any of these software mentioned is as good as the pay alternative, you are on crack. You know, I use my share of open source software, and while I do appreciate them, there is no way in hell I could ever mistake them for professional programs in terms of quality, stability, or user interface. My MythTV box is currently sitting at the Xwindows desktop, because the frontend crashed for the third time this week and I haven't bothered to start it again. Not to mention the user interface is very poor in parts and it is horribly slow. I would switch to a Tivo in a heartbeat if Tivo would play my MP3s. My work won't buy me Illustrator or Photoshop, so I was using the Gimp and Inkscape to do a bunch of graphics work this week, both of which are actually pretty good programs except for the fact that they crash about once an hour, and the Gimp leaks memory like a sieve.
I use these programs because of their free nature (free as in beer for the Gimp and Inkscape, and free as in freedom for MythTV) but the thought of having my business rely on open source gives me the willys. I like Open Source, but let's put some perspective in this, shall we. Propritary software costs money, but having poor UI, no decent manuals, having to wait until some programmer halfway around the world gets some free time from his busy life to fix things, and not having anyone to call when you have problems or find bugs could cost a hell of a lot more. - mouthster, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Emostar called it. Pure fiction to generate hits. Do the right thing and bury this piece.
- coredump0x01, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6non-standard software? Last I checked, firefox was massively more standards-compliant than IE (google for yourself and find out.) The only reason why open source software is not standardized is because of companies (microsoft) bullying them out of the market and establishing their own "standards" that people have to pay to use (ms office). OSS is for the world. proprietary software is for the pocket-linings of the companie's CEO's, even if that means taking that bit of freedom away from the world. And after reading the article, the only problem compatibility-wise would be if they had gotten some MS-produced powerpoint presentation, or other ms office excrement because, thankfully, the internet's base tcp/ip stacks are still standard and cross-platform (translation: unperverted by MS) and the web apps the company described in this article uses are php-based, meaning they run on all browsers because they use *gasp* standards, and actually care about universal user experience enough to not restrict it to a single platform/browser, which, IMO, is the way the software world should work.
- Bigcat1021, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Open source is a great concept and has produced some truly great software. I am curious to see, however, how much momentum OSS will gain in the coming years, and if it will maintain that momentum.
OSS is littered with abandoned projects (of course, so is the rest of the world), but when a software company producing software is facing competition it is going to bust ass to take their product to the next level, because if they don't, the company tanks and people are out of jobs.
With OSS, this pressure just isn't there. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but I think it puts strains on future growth. - arnorhs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3That's a totally horrible article. When a paint manufacturing company would need all that software it would have grown so big that the cost of software was very small compared to the size of the company.
Another thing this guy totally didn't think of is that you would need to train all your staff in using this software.
Another angle you guys never think about when you're discussing the cheapness of open source software is that when something goes wrong, you don't have anyone that's responsible. You could hope for an answer on some forum to your problems (usually that would mostly consist of RTFM and STFU comments).
When there's a company behind a product you can hold someone accountable when something goes wrong and they will have to help you and they will BE POLITE!
I know this is a flame, but this guy obviously doesn't know much about running a company and should place his feet on the ground. - DoubtfulSalmon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I dunno how I missed that before today, but THANK YOU, Ernie Ball -v- BSA/Microsoft is a FANTASTIC story, priceless. This story http://news.com.com/2008-1082_3-5065859.html is pure gold.
Trust me, I'll be giving Ernie Ball centre stage in my teaching this coming semester. I've been struggling to find sufficiently convincing examples for my Bachelor of Business students - they really have trouble understanding what this "Free Software" and "Open Source" malarkey is all about, and they can't seem to get past the "but why would you bother if you can't charge the customer for it?" position (They meet a dozen or more lecturers in their short academic career en-route to becoming business people, I'm the only one that tries to show them OSS. It's an uphill battle!). This is brilliant! - sspooner, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8That's because MS admins are only slightly above working for McDonalds.
When i was 18 and starting out programming, some 20 years ago I heard a very wise manager once say "if you pay peanuts you get monkeys" ... you only really need to pay peanuts to people with no skills. Those people are MS people, they really are the bottom rung of tech life. It's not that *nix requires more knowledge, it's that MS requires less ... like 7-11 less. - dstz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm not 100% sure that the title is misleading on purpose.
- wolever, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3(@ second poster)
Wll duh... You just edit /etc/X11/{xorg.conf, XFree86.conf}, find the mouse InputDevice and add the "ZAxisMapping" option with a value of "4 5".
Here is how you do it:
# ed /etc/X11/xorg.conf
2634
/InputDevice
InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
a
Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
.
w
2676
q
I mean, that sorta thing is tricky for you... Maybe computers just aren't your thing. Get a mac?
[/humor] - theone3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I don't get why people are modding down the parent comment. It's factual, well written, and an important factor. If you disagree with it, that's no reason to discount it.
- RickySan65, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5It says imagine.. so it's just a wet dream of some OSS devotee who thinks that his dream might come true one day..
- Mambo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The key word is imagine....
- murdoch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I agree, this company probably doesn't need a Unix systems admin. My point was more geared towards open source software in general. It has it's pro's and con's just like closed source software. The company I work for had considered switching all of it servers to unix but it was tough to find people that were trained in it. MCSA's are a lot easier to find.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3what is the point of this, it is not like he actully did it or anything
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Damn, maybe I need to be a Unix Systems Administrator.
- igzStreet, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4oh good this article is exactly as I perceive MOST open source solutions
LAME and childish
come on ,
1. firts and formost thing if I make paints i dont care about my APACHE , my PHP command line or
my MySql I MAKE PAINTS !!!!!
2. how do you maintain all of this ?? at no cost ? , did you consider the offer of the vendor
in a long run ? , i personally know of number of great lease plans from commercial companies
that are very well priced and are WORTH it even though I could well enough use and oSS
3. Communication with other companies ?? its not fun but true you do need MS office ,
i can not imagine run a biz without it it just not possible today ( if you want to make thing easy for your clients that is)
SO to end this
COME on people how could this get to the front page ?? , this is one of the lame articles i have ead so far , i welcome oss pro articles but they need to be well written with arguments , numbers and
not this - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7My company will only use open source as well!
- ninti, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4> Do we not all have to wait for closed source software companies to release updates/patches on their time?
That is true, but I know of outstanding issues with Myth that I and others have run into that have been going on for more than a year. Meanwhile after 9 months a new, very minor release was put out. The problem is that Open Source software is written on people's free time. The theory is that everyone can participate, but the reality is that most projects have a very small number of very part time people working on them.
> amazing community following who are more than willing to help with any problems you might be having.
Well, as far as Myth goes, I find about half the time I have a problem and go looking for a solution, someone knowledgable answers. And half of those times, the answer solves the issue. That's not a great batting average. Again, these people are volunteers, and don't have any special insight into the software in question other than they use it a lot and are willing to spend time helping people. The last time I had to talk to someone I bought software from, I talked to the programmer for a bit and he sent me a patch the next day. - emostar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Reported as inaccurate since this is a fictional piece, although the title makes it sound like a rea company. Besides, what is the point of this article? Is it a listing of open source software or what? And why are there so many insurance links at the very bottom of the page? Something is very amiss here.. Blocking "directorblue" because of all this.
- Virak, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7@Ninti:
You know, I had a really great comment written up that parodied your comment by comparing it with my experience with Windows' ***** hardware detection, but for some reason that didn't get submitted, so I'll just sum it up here:
Linux isn't Windows; stop expecting it to be. Linux wasn't made by or for Windows people, it was made by and for Linux people. And if you think editing a ***** text file is any worse than the Windows registry, then you've obviously not done the latter.
And just because Linux doesn't detect your mouse properly doesn't mean its zomg teh suxx0rz. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I love that he has to imagine it. If it was so great, and it saved so much money and time, he would not only not have to imagine it, he'd have to imagine the closed-source alternative. The savings would provide an obvious competitive advantage and businesses would have to use it to stay in business, period.
I couldn't care less what people use, but at the same time, using open-source software doesn't make you Jesus either. I almost wish it was all more popular so I wouldn't have to listen to the constant refrains of people trying to convince themselves what they're doing is great. - cmiller1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I microsoft has the most open and best documented APIs, then how come they are in court in europe right now for doing the exact opposite, hm?
- directorblue, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2A really good MS systems administrator will cost $60K based on what I saw several years ago at a large company. They tested a whole range of folks on a test domain and, bizarrely, the best guy hadn't even taken the MCSE. He just had plenty of real world experience...
- Xiol, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I agree with everyone who has replied to the parent. Linux isn't Windows, and it's no more difficult than using Windows, it's just different.
Case in point, my mum has NEVER used a Windows box, hell, I don't think she's ever seen one. She uses Linux on a daily basis to get things done - write letters, send emails, browse the web, manage her pictures, use the digital camera... She doesn't know any better, she just gets things done. She uses Ubuntu, I use Gentoo (but I like things complicated and tinkerable). - coredump0x01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ninti:
Allow me to remind you that the latest version of MythTV is 0.19. For the sake of $deity, give it a little time before you go bashing it's quality. I'm sure windows was not almighty usable and functional when it was at ver. 0.19. And your one (lucky) receipt of one patch from the vendor does not even begin to compare to the countless patches, compiling help, code optimizations that I have received from developers and forums throughout my OSS experience. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5...Imagining an Open-Source World...?
Imagine you could name a company such as this. I had to evaluate Compiere ERP/CRM and it's a mess. From the setup process to the "support"... It's a mess. Most people have to pay other groups to setup Compiere anyways - directorblue, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I would agree regarding the last version GNOME. I just saw the new Novell Linux Desktop, though, and it's outstanding! It has all the Vista-style graphical widgets, a much more consistent interface, and -- weirdly -- it doesn't require the high-end graphics chipsets that Vista does.
- wolever, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Google is your friend :)
Now, I know you've probably heard that a million times, but take it seriously. If you learn how to google properly, it makes finding things much easer. For instance, a gentleman above complained of spending two days trying to get his mouse wheel working. I'm not exactly sure what he was doing, but I just searched for: mouse wheel linux OR xorg and the fourth link was exactly it.
Another good way to get support is by using a popular distribution. If you use Linux from Scratch, its going to be a _lot_ harder to find support then if you are using, say, RedHat or Ubuntu. In fact, there are Ubuntu tutorials out there for just about everything. - wolever, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1For all those folks saying "Linux is harder than Windows!!!", you might very well be right. Usually, it works pretty well out of the box. Some times it dosen't. The real question here is "Have you ever had to install _Windows_ on ugly hardware?" Let me tell you... it makes verbose error messages very nice...
But, seriously. If I were running an office with a bunch of people in it who had to read e-mail and go on the internet, it doesn't matter if they don't know how to reconfigure GDM or make a broken mouse wheel work -- thats my job. If they are running Linux, it means it is mighty hard for them to break things. No more viri, worms, etc, and if something breaks all I need to do is SSH in to fix it (none of this fussing around with VNC or Remote Desktop -- although why an office would run WinXP Pro on the client machines is beyond me).
[/rant] - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Have you ever install Linux on "pretty hardware"? Linux doesn't even have drivers for the more popular ATI cards....shame on them.
Second of all, the author said the vendor that was trying to sell Windows said that they'd have to buy new liscenses everytime a platform becomes unsupported....that won't happen for a nother 10 years or so...by that time...hopefully they've upgraded by then....
*sigh*...just another anti-Microsoft ficticious article. when will people forget their biases and realize that facts: Microsoft is a good OS, Linux is a good OS, MacOSX is a good OS.....quit fighting.
Anyway, I believe this company is actually ficticious.
First of all, if their paint price is lower than their competitors, how can they say that their product is way better? Believe it or not, price is actually an indicator of quality most of the time. Software licsensing isn't factored into overhead when setting prices, however, labor is factored in from maintaining Linux because obviously they're more skilled hence cost more. So if anything open-source actually would jack their prices up. - calabria, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1this would be practical in a small business situation. The costs saved would be a great benefit. however in a large business the costs alone to train the staff in linux would render this scenario useless.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is bizarre. I know of companies that use F/OSS software exclusively. What's the big deal? Is this such a radical concept that it has to be dugg? Actually, this is quite common.
- mr.hostility, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Unimaginative, as well as lame. No digg here.
- KoZo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1our product is based in OSS, PHP to be exact however..... its still Windows only here..... and the .NET guy is laughing at me because as much as I'm a linux folk im still using Windows....
- ramallama, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think many missed the point of this article. I think he was pointing out that most of the areas a small business might need software for is covered by an open source initiative.
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