What is Digg?117 Comments
- Neticule, on 10/12/2007, -2/+38I tried making money in second life, it worked well, however, it actually ended up being more boring then any other job ive had!
- cr125er, on 10/12/2007, -2/+34Tell a girl on a date that you got hired for a job by talking through your avatar to another avatar. She'll put out so fast and then you'll have a girlfriend on top of a job thanks to a game.
- foobr, on 10/12/2007, -2/+30Abusing the reply function I know, but this is quite comical and related to the current post:
http://www.getafirstlife.com/ - rstarr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+26@tobias
Look, I know being on digg denotes instantly that we're all geeks here...but that comment crossed a geek line of no return. I don't care if you become a jewel thief ninja wielding a light saber and dating Scarlet Johansen all while on a high speed chase from a bunch of Mad Max road warriors simultaneously defusing a bomb to save the world, recording a smash album, and curing cancer....you can never become cool again.
I'm sorry that I had to break it to you like this, but I didn't see any other way. - m3mn0n, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21No. That's networth, not revenue or income.
I'm sure media who wants to see the "game" succeed may spin it to make it seem as if it's possible to start from scratch and work your way to becoming a millionaire, but I'm sure most, if not all of that avatar's networth is a result of money invested in the game from the owner's "first life."
Which is sort of sad isn't it? I mean, who literally spends THAT much on completely virtual things in a MMO game? - Fluidity, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19Sweet, a hat, and there was me thinking that generally most guys wanted sex, I guess a hat built out of pixels makes a great alternative to that. I bet you can't wait for valentines days, maybe you'll get some pixel shoes to go with your pixel hat. I'll have to put up with a kiss in first life, damn!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16This is nohing more than a big ole paid ad for secondlife.
Same ***** as when you hear leo or adam curry talk it up in their podcast. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11rstarr: I think the Geek Hierarchy needs updating...
http://jamillan.com/geek.gif
MMPORG Daters needs to be just above furies on the geek whipping boy chart. - adamc80, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13I played Second Life and it had all the graphical lustre of a Notepad beta.
- gord, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10becoming a hooker's probably pretty simple in real life too.
- jeffness, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I am perplexed by second life. It might be a case of being unable to "think outside the box" but I hesitate to feel so stupid as to not "get it". I've been using the internet since '94, and there were other phenomena I missed as well, so this wouldn't be the first, but this second life stuff just seems alien to me. I don't know why it garnishes so much media attention as it seems I read a new article about it every other day.
Does it have an appeal to media types that, as a technical person, inherently do not understand and are incapable of grasping? What makes second life so appealing? I tried it and I guess I just don't get it. I feel like I'm missing out, but I should probably just accept my gut instincts on this one and continue my lack of involvement. - bobcrotch, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11There is lots of potential out there for people to make money but how is that so much different from normal life? You still need to have some sort of skill and dedication. Most people who play an MMO give up their responsibilities to play them, their only dedication is to wasting their time in a game.
- NanoStuff, on 10/12/2007, -10/+19"Which is sort of sad isn't it? I mean, who literally spends THAT much on completely virtual things in a MMO game?"
I take it you haven't seen a Chinese gold farm yet :) I was shocked, a warehouse filled with people as far as the eye can see, all of it to provide you with virtual currency. There's over 100,000 full time farmers in China alone, supply and demand for you. - muvment256, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15I fear the day when people will replace actual social interaction with anxiety free virtual interaction and never leave the house.
Dammit, that day is already upon us, isn't it?
No wonder the clubs in Seattle suck. Everybody is at home on Saturday night playing virtual world with other losers doing the same.
*Waits for obsessed SecondLifers to digg me down* - GawtMilk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10I agree.
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7004/geek8so.gif - reticulate, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Escort?
You've got to be kidding.
The real money's in pimping. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Who's buying this virtual crap?
- acesomeone, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9This whole SecondLife thing is getting pathetic, if you don't mind me saying so. Life is here, in the real world, around real people...
- jizz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6douches.
- retral, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9It's no way to live. I played second life for a while and sadly it's little more than innovative coding but with an unfinished, innacurate and/or poor implementation. Seriously, the game is laggier than hell, half the stuff people make is ghetto & totally sucks.. and it's pretty bad if you're playing this game so much you're making money off of it.
That said.. to each his own. I made like 50 bucks off of second life within about a month in a half.. Even if I could make a lot more (people are making an upwards of a thousand dollars a month selling virtual real estate).. I don't know if I would.. I feel so... guilt.. so dirty playing second life. - GawtMilk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6HAH! You sit around on the computer in order to make money for excersise? Why not just go running and skip the Gym / ***** game?
- Bob042, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5However, it's also total crap filled with micropayments.
- scabbers, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Even WOW players pity these fools.
- Hydraulix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Actually, I take that back. Blacksun was much better than SL.
- jhourcle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@h00paj0 : at least link to the original (full) version, not the abridged one: http://www.brunching.com/images/geekchart.pdf
(main link, to the abridged & frequently paraphrased questions : http://www.brunching.com/geekhierarchy.html ) - sockpuppets, on 10/12/2007, -11/+15This has consequences to the space/time continuum that I don't think you're fully appreciating: What happens if you get a real life as a result of your job from your fake life?
Which came first, the chicken or the egg? It boggles the mind. - Hydraulix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Reminds me of Blacksun.
- Jerim, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The headline is a bit misleading. It made it sound like it was going to be the personal story of how someone got a job with a company via networking in Second Life. What really happened, and it is only mentioned briefly in the article, is that a few of the Second Life programmers got hired away by a company to help them create content for real world companies in Second Life. So no, this isn't some success story of how a person was able to land a job through his Second Life contacts.
- randovaro, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8It's like a William Gibson novel. On a related note I was interested to read of Anshe Chung who made a million (real) dollars by selling (virtual) real estate in SecondLife. Not bad for an initial investment of $9.95 two years ago!
- int19h, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Enough of the spam already! Many participants of Second Life earn money by getting more users to Second Life. Buried as "spam".
- christianw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4heh my buddy works for electric sheep =p
crazy now i gotta give him ***** about this article lol - wonkavsn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4And so it begins.
- jfoust2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It's been so easy for Linden Labs to have their PR accepted at media outlets because so many of the numbers are virtual, too. They can claim immense number of users, yet there's no way to verify, no way to prove more useful concepts like how many are active paying users as opposed to alternate identity accounts or people who tried it once and left, as well as the litter of "griefer" accounts created and destroyed endlessly.
They claim there's a land owner in SL worth a million US dollars, but that makes no sense in a market where, if those assets were actually liquidated, the market would flood and prices would drop. They claim immense dollar amounts of transactions per day, yet there's no analysis of whether that's larger transactions of money shifted between a few accounts (see millionaire above) or whether that's thousands of people buying new hair for their avatar. They claim there are people making money in SL, without discussing how much time it took to learn the craft or how much time is spent maintaining that income.
It's gross, not net. In this sense, I blame crappy reporters more than anything else. It's always scary when a business magazine ignores these simple realities. It's always spun as "earned this much" without an honest discussion of how much time and money was invested. It's like they're writing cover stories about lemonade stands. It's hard enough making a living in the real world. It's much harder to do so selling items at US 5 cents to 2 dollars a pop.
On the other hand, it is a bit like the software business. You can make something once, then sell copies. But then there's tech support and upgrades. More sophisticated objects require scripts that might break in the twice-a-month forced upgrade of the client. What then? Still fun yet?
There is no guarantee that those virtual assets are protected. The reality of the place is subject to bugs. Last weekend, a popular dance spot in SL started to disappear due to some sort of SL database bug. The stuff was gone. Yes, the landowner may or may not have had copies of the parts in inventory, but reassembly and construction is an utter time-consuming drag. The Lindens refused to help. I would guess this landowner is paying LL at least $100 a month for this venture. I would be surprised if she broke-even with the tips she collects. I would guess she spends 40-60 hours a month in SL. Do the math, kids. It's not to say there aren't people enjoying themselve and happily paying to play SL... but it's very risky to expect profit. - Spankov, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The jobs being talked about in the article are all conected with SecondLife anyway so don't go thinking you can hang around the game and get a job.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Forget the impending crash of the California stock market. One server goes down in Second Life, and it's like Katrina time a million!
- astutissimo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Like most people I'm sick and tired of Second Life hype. Few months ago I signed up, logged in, looked at it a bit, found it lame, and never logged back in again. What sucks is that Linden Labs still counts me in as one of their millions of residents. Nobody I know uses it.
- gord, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7No, it's good. It filters the losers out of real life.
- halik, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3WTF is second life? I keep reading hype-a-licious articles about this world of warcraft meets sims game. I may be too old, but I just don't get the appeal. Are people that unhappy with their lives that they go to a virtual game to pretend to be someone else?
- KhanneaSuntzu, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Making money is amazinly simple. I made a few simple items, I pay my fitness bills with SL. If I'd bother to actively go and escort, I'd make about 100$ a day with some effort, more if I'd bother to buy a cam and do voice cyber. It is remarkable.
- azAZ09, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2WoW is a game that people pay a monthly fee to participate. Players wander, fight imaginary monsters, collect treasure, maybe advance in level gaining abilities. (Repeat last sentence ad nauseum). All content is controlled by the game writers, and the rules framework.
Second life is a virtual world where you only pay a fee if you want to own land, to keep structures on. Content and means of production are largely controlled by the individual. Other than that, its like TENGWAR (The Exiting New Game Without Any Rules) There are no character levels--everyone is immortal, everyone can build objects, create scripts, and chat, but there is no pre-determined story. It is open-ended.
The difference between playing WoW and SL is like the difference between playing the old games workshop board game Talisman, and playing with a box of Legos in an infinite open frontier filled with legos. - alchemism, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Actually, that may just mean that Seattle sucks. Or maybe they just don't like clubs? I always thought of Seattle as more of a rock-bar kind of town.
- bloodomen13, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@Whisperedlie
Wow... are you really such a sad, pathetic person that you have all this pent up rage over the fact that other people enjoy something different from yourself? Or that people could possibly find entertainment in something that you don't have the slightest ability to understand? I find it quite amazing that you even managed to find the power switch to turn your computer on....
"I know you SecondLosers out there will argue that there are no distinctions between SL and any other MMO, but I'm not buying it."
Actually, won't find any SecondLifers arguing that there's no distinctions between SL and "any other MMO". That's because SL is NOT an MMO. Never claimed to be. Close-minded buffoons insist on referring to it as an MMO and can only relate it to the number of cookie-cutter templated Everquest/Ultima Online clones that have managed to seep their way into the mainstream. People who see a 3D representation of a character in an interactive environment thinking "Oh... it's a game!" only to find out that's exactly what it isn't... then getting bored, they log out and think they're enlightened enough to tell everyone else what a boring "game" SL is.
"Something like WoW has TONS of time, research, money, and hard work put into it to create a deep, rich and immersing experience that is far detached from reality, something that is challenging and entertaining and unlike anything we know in our day-to-day lives.
SL does nothing more than to attempt to recreate our ho-hum lives, only allowing your bottom-rung idiot the chance to rise to SecondLife popularity if they pay enough in monthly fees and waste enough time on the Internet "wheeling and dealing" (see Ansche Chung). You can go to virtual gay dance clubs, perform a "i'm falling asleep" emote in boring virtual seminars, visit with corporate mouthpieces, buy and develop virtual wasteland, and envy your neighbor's virtual belongings (just like in real life)? WOW... sign me the f*** up! I can't WAIT to pay for something so stupid. I'm glad people are willing to line the pockets of that Linden *****, who cares not at all about the industry, the genre, or the audience. It's really heartwarming when an undeserving prick walks off with tons of other people's money because those people are idiots (again, MySpace). If you want to get rid of money that badly, donate to a charity."
Yeah... sure... Blizzard has spent lots of time and money on research... to create an environment where you go kill something, get some coins, go kill, get coins, kill, get coins... rinse and repeat. What could possibly be so engrossing in that? You're following a linear path. You are limited to what the developers allow you to do. You're nothing more than a mouse in a maze running around being told what to do. You're always chasing that next level... why? So you can have a new "skill" or item to kill that next, bigger rat with. Ooooh... sign me up for that excitement!
Sure, if you want to do that in SL go look up DarkLife. It's there. But, if you want to use this little thing that all of us were born with... something called imagination, you might find value and great entertainment in SL. I NEVER do the same thing each day in SL. I can go build objects, script, make textures, utilize any number of objects, environments, games, and experiences other users have made... explore, etc. If you can't see or think of anything to do that is outside of your daily life while your in SL then that is YOUR failing... not the application's. SL is what YOU make of it. It's a sandbox. It takes you back to actual interactivity versus sitting in front of the TV or being spoon fed a linear treadmill in the guise of "content". I've played every "big name" MMO since Meridian 59. Each has only held my attention for a short time until I tired of the treadmill... though SL has something new with each login.
I don't know what personal vendetta you have against SL... actually, it seems from what you've written, you've never even logged into it. If your think that the experience is as you've noted (which, I find oddly are "complaints" by detracting bloggers readily found on the web), then the issues lie with you. If all you found was virtual gay bars... that's exactly what you were looking for. If you found yourself falling asleep at corporate meetings in SL, you have quite a twisted sense of how to spend your free time. If you want to envy your neighbor's belongings.. that's your choice. Not mine.
Also, if you're going to rant on something... at least do some research and your argument might hold a bit more weight. There is no "Linden *****". Find out more about what you're "fighting against" for whatever reason and you might find yourself either a) enlightened enough to make a reasonable argument and b) make yourself look a wee bit less of the prick that you obviously are. - tobias1482, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4basically they took some of the original social game design of Star Wars Galaxies and opened it up even more to the point of trusting the player to make _all_ of the content. There's a unique type of mmo gamer that gets into that kind of thing. I think that it eventually evolves into mostly a social network, such as myspace, as opposed to a game for those people.
Additionally, there are some FPS online games that starting to deal with AI using players. Another similiar idea.
That MMO audience kind of confuses me... to each his own. - mahdaeng, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2conceptually, there are a lot of interesting possibilities for virtual worlds. as a programmer, i have fun from time to time jumping on to second life and playing around with scripting. sometimes i also get on there just to look at some scenery, to see what people have created. however, i think we still have a long way to go before we reach anything near to the full potential of virtual worlds.
- moose_diggs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2lol@virtual gang... you pathetic jackass
- azAZ09, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2People are confused by Second Life because they are comparing it to MMorpg's, but Second Life is a different kind of experience--one that may not be for everyone. Second Life only gives you access to the grid and the tools to interact and create within it. There are no canned plots or stories to follow, and, yes, SL takes a while to learn. It's not the kind of thing console kiddies are likely to be interested in. There is no artificial experience points system. Ideas of advancement, goals and success are highly individual, and mirror the way we think about those things in reality. In order to gain a new ability you have to actually learn something, build something, or buy something. Because of this, even many PC-gamers, and RPG gamers may have some problems with it. Second life is just the medium; the participants bring the entertainment with the way they interact within the world.
Were you the kind of kid who pouted around a room filled with toys saying "I'm bored" and kicking your legs on the floor expecting the world to give you something fun to do? (we've all been there from time to time)
If you find Second Life boring, you probably experience the same problems with boredom in your real life, and the problem isn't really in the virtual world. The boredom originates within the common element of both experiences--you.
SL is not a monolithic medium like television where viewers experience having 500+ channels and nothing on. You don’t have to wait for some corporation to serve you your entertainment. Those who see a lack of something in the world as an opportunity to create something that no one has seen will thrive.
Eventually people will find MMO RPG’s like WoW boring too, when they realize the plots and experiences follow a predictable pattern. Look at what happened to Earth and Beyond. - sexyjill, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Wow, I feel like I could've written this exact comment, right down to being online since '94 as well. Interesting.
- azAZ09, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2It's like the web itself, a lot of what you see is ghetto. My eyeballs hurt from some of the bad websites I have seen, but that doesn't mean the entire www sucks. SL is just a medium. It may not be to you liking...but the problem isn't in the Virtual world.
- azAZ09, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@radiofrequency
"I'm sure somebody has closed million-dollar deals using AOL IM but for some reason Second Life is special."
--Maybe, but (besides the general lameness of AIM ) did that transaction involve buying something that only exists in the context of the virtual world? Everquest was big in the news for a while when people began putting virtual objects up for auction on e-bay. Same phenomenon, but this doesn't require e-bay or pay-pal. Transactions occur within world.
"Second Life makes little sense to me."
--This is clearly the case. It might not be the kind of thing you are into. But, the problem isn't within SL
"Why would I spend days in a virtual world selling virtual real estate".
--You might not, there are other things to do.
"Can I get laid in Second Life?"
--(Sigh) unfortunately, yes, even you, depending on your definition of getting laid, probably could. Avatar on avatar sex does occur in SL. Second Life is a microcosm of the web in general and lets face it--there is a lot of pr0n on the web—but does that make the entire www lame if you aren’t into it? In SL "Getting laid" would be analogous to sex in IRC, or phone sex, with a graphic representation of your avatar.
"Entertainment and games always involve a certain challenge"
--Sometimes, the challenge in SL is in creating -- building, scripting, or just being social.
"there's a winner and a loser."
--Well there may not always be a winner, but your case the statement will always still be true ;}. This statement is also the key to why you don't understand SL. Having a winner or loser depends on goals. The game doesn't spoon feed you goals the way many MMoRPG's do. There are open-ended games with no winner or loser. Real Role-Playing Games are an example of this. Second Life is not really a "game" in the sense that WoW or Eve online are games. It’s a virtual world not a game.
"So what about that challenge."
--Be creative, build something, make friends, join the discourse the way you have on digg.
“Can I mug people and kill them in second life? Can I launch invasions on their property and take over their "million dollar second life homes" etc? Or is second life just a 3D graphical representation of a heavily-moderated chat room specially tailored to advertisers?”
--Is this important to you? Are you a sociopath? People have created PvP areas in order to simulate combat, but avatars are generally immortal. You can’t take something that someone doesn’t agree to give to you. People have behaved badly; there are griefers in SL ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer ). There are defenses available to property owners to repel this kind of behavior. Other than that Linden Labs is pretty hands-off . SL is not really moderated the way you describe. - azAZ09, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1jizz, you're right --your article about second life sucks dog bollocks.
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