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Help Azureus to Fight BitTorrent Throttling ISPs

torrentfreak.com — ISPs have been throttling BitTorrent traffic for years now, but only recently this turned into a political issue. The BitTorrent client Azureus has now developed a plugin through which you can help distinguishing the good from the bad ISPs, data they will use to strengthen their argument in the ongoing Comcast debate.

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  • AsSubtleAsABrik, on 03/26/2008, -4/+96I don't know if it's just Comcast and their ***** service, but it seems whenever I torrent my internet in general slows to a crawl. No amount of throttling my own upload speed stops this from happening. It seems to return to normal when I stop the torrents, but even using the smallest amount of bandwidth slows everything down. And then I call the customer service and they blame it on the most asinine things possible to the point of me just giving up. ***** Comcast.
    • Sparticuz, on 03/26/2008, -2/+48Comcast sends 'reset' packets when it detects torrent traffic.
    • AngelBunny, on 03/26/2008, -15/+7how much are you limiting your upload speed? in an extreme situation you could limit it to 1kB/s and test but I wouldn't really recommend limiting lower than 5kB/s to test. if your ping jumps up running bt at those low upload speeds then it is most likely your router. most home routers can not handle all of the connections and either crash under the pressure or slow down a lot. even some cable modems do. you can test this by connecting your computer directly to your cable modem and running the test again with the low upload rates and seeing if your ping jumps up just the same. if this is still a problem then you can limit the number of peers your client is allowed to connect to and that should help the issue.
      • ExSlashdotter, on 03/27/2008, -4/+2Whats your name, btw? I just want to know so I can make sure to throw your resume away if you ever try to apply for a job in my IT dept.
        • djbon2112, on 03/27/2008, -0/+3On home networks, it very well can be the router. We're not talking $2000+ managed switches, we're talking $50 cheapo routers. And that can make a huge difference; I know from experience (see my reply to shaka999 below).
    • halobender, on 03/26/2008, -2/+20This used to happen to me, but recently my torrents are no longer throttled. Not sure what happened. I use Comcast.
    • shaka999, on 03/26/2008, -5/+4It may very well be Comcast but it seems your jumping to conclusions. I know my linksys router was the cause of many of my issues. I know I had to tweak some setting in windows and on my router to get things working. If I recall it had something to do with the number of connections.
      • djbon2112, on 03/27/2008, -0/+3I have the same situation at home. When I was downloading torrents (regardless of how slow it was going), my other computers internet browsing speed would grind to a halt. I was using a Linksys wired router. I bought an installed a DLink wireless (but still using the same wires) router a week ago, and suddenly, no slowdowns, even when I was hitting 500+ kb/s in torrent downloads.

        Digg me down, but that's the truth. On a home network, routers can play a big part in it, especially if you're buying ***** ones.
    • AndreLandry, on 03/26/2008, -4/+1Does this happen when your not behind a router as well? I have issues with my internet acting slower when I'm downloading torrents but it seems to work better if I'm not behind a router.
    • davidjunit, on 03/26/2008, -3/+4I use Comcast and a Linksys modem and wireless (I'm wired) router, I NEVER have problems uploading or downloading with BT (Azureus). I think this is a regional thing but then again I don't use BT religiously, maybe a few times a month where I download less than 3GBs and probably upload 1.2-1.5X that to meet ratio requirements. I cap my 48k/s (384kbps) upstream at around 40k/s and if it's any slower it's usually because there are a ton of seeds and not enough leechers.
      • AsSubtleAsABrik, on 03/26/2008, -0/+2It may be a regional thing, I go to Virginia Tech, and if they did do certain regions that this would be one of their "problem" zones, considering the town consists of over 50% college students. Who knows. They can do whatever they want, I don't have any other options for internet here.
    • WNW3, on 03/26/2008, -1/+16I was having all sorts of slow speed issues with my Comcast service and I figured it was throttling...turned out it was squirrels that had chewed up the cable leading into my house. They replaced it an now everything is silky smooth
      • CoolWind, on 03/26/2008, -0/+7This is so funny. But I can't figure out if it's a joke. Could this possibly be true?
        • WNW3, on 03/26/2008, -0/+4It is true, weird but true
          • dacheetah, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1You know Comcast paid the squirrels to chew the cables right?
      • halobender, on 03/26/2008, -0/+10There are comcast squirrels in the tubes.
      • stabbingkittens, on 03/26/2008, -0/+1I'm with an appalling ISP in Australia, and was sitting in the phone queue for 10 mins after my connection dropped out again. With my spleen bursting and 1 minute left to launch my assault, I looked down to see my old lady's Chihuahua digesting my tasting-looking cat5 cable. Damn vermin getting into the house again.
    • jenn2d2, on 03/26/2008, -0/+3My roommate and I had the exact same problem with our Comcast connection (both using a router and without one, with encryption enabled). We were able, through trial and error, to figure out a way to get around it. Limiting upload to less than 20KB seemed to do the trick. Whatever traffic shaping they're doing seems reliant on that upload number, as well as the reset packets they're sending to unencrypted peers.
      • AsSubtleAsABrik, on 03/26/2008, -0/+2Doesn't matter if I have mine set to 5 or 40. Still does it. I just tried turning on encryption cause I never really tried that, hopefully that helps. I've been torrenting since there was basically only the original client, I've had plenty of experience limiting my upload speeds. It's just not until recently I thought it might be my torrents for my ***** internet.
      • scottschiller, on 03/26/2008, -0/+3I had two roommates back in the day who'd be downloading torrents simultaneously, making the web absolutely unbrowseable for me as they were completely saturating the upstream (ie., no bandwidth to "upload"/send data, or it took too long/timed out etc.)
        I worked around this by getting a second IP from our cable modem (this was Shaw Canada in 2004 and you could get a second IP enabled without extra cost) .. I then put a hub between the cable modem and had 2 routers off that, thus 2 gateway IPs to the internet. Shaw's bandwidth caps were per-IP, so I put my two roommates on one and took the other for myself. They could fight it out with each other for bandwidth, and my connection was completely separate, unaffected.
        Pardon the small essay.
      • halobender, on 03/26/2008, -0/+1Remember encryption only does the headers.
    • n3demonic, on 03/26/2008, -0/+1My internet doesn't slow to a crawl under Comcast. Instead, it cuts off my internet connection. With my old router, it would come back up after a few minutes, under my new one, I have to reset the damn thing to get it to work. ***** Comcast
      • scottschiller, on 03/26/2008, -0/+2That's been reported as an issue with the router (probably a linksys, right?) - It couldn't handle the high number of connections being made, and eventually would crash/hang until restarted. I used to have the same issue, but more recent firmware fixes it.
        • dacheetah, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1My Linksys router has been able to handle a huge number of connections since day one. Never had any problems with it. Seems my Linksys router likes me.
    • PacoDEmu, on 03/26/2008, -0/+6I have the same exact problem. I have tested it extensively and the results are always identical.
      When I have torrents running, either seeding or downloading, my http browsing crawls to a snails pace. Often stopping pages from loading altogether. The speed degradation is especially prevelant during HTTPS authentication. The moment I stop the torrents, all is well. It's not my router, nor my NIC, it is Comcast.

      I wish I had another option for an ISP other than dial up or satellite, but Comcast is the only broadband provider in my neighborhood.

      It is truly an atrocity.
      • scottschiller, on 03/26/2008, -0/+3It's likely you're just saturating your connection's upstream bandwidth, so there's very little left to actually communicate with the rest of the internets. (Keep in mind you have to "send" some data ie., making HTTP requests when browsing the web, etc.) Try limiting your upstream so that there's some bandwidth left over, and things should be better.
    • GuyHitByTruck, on 03/26/2008, -0/+2Would a router that can manage QoS help much? I'm having the same issue, and that's basically an educated guess at this point.
      • mrsteveman1, on 03/26/2008, -0/+2QoS helps, the real problem is that normally applications don't open 400 TCP sessions at once, web browsers don't do it, email clients don't, AIM doesn't either. Torrents apps are one of the few programs which open that many TCP sessions at the same time, and it tends to screw with routers sometimes.

        You can see this in action when your entire internet connection slows regardless of how fast the torrents are going.
      • luchid, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1Try loading a better firmware on it. Try www.dd-wrt.com. It works on tons of routers and performs much much MUCH better than stock firmwares ever do. I loaded it on my wrt54g and it's like a completely different router now. You also gain tons of features, like the ability to increase the power to the antennas to increase the range.
    • unknownsoldierX, on 03/26/2008, -0/+2Windows limits half-open connections to 10 at a time. This is why BitTorrent can slow down web browsing. Upping the limit to 50 helps a lot.

      You can use a patch from here:
      http://www.yaronmaor.net/repair.htm
    • picsectionpleez, on 03/26/2008, -0/+1Older version of Aquisition + Piratebay FTW -getting 3 or 4 Meg per second on a regular Comcast connection.
    • phaaq, on 03/26/2008, -0/+0Also, there is a problem with linksys routers. Usually restarting the router fixes it. Installing the awesome and free dd-wrt firmware fixes it for good. The Utorrent site list this as a problem:
      http://www.utorrent.com/faq.php#Special_note_for_u ...
      • mrsteveman1, on 03/26/2008, -0/+2Free, yes. Awesome no. DD-WRT isn't all that great, it's just a big project. Tomato works much better, esp the QoS.
        • ExSlashdotter, on 03/27/2008, -0/+2Agreed, but you make it sound like DD-WRT isnt that good. Gotta admit its still a big upgrade from the shipping linksys firmware of course.
  • Sparticuz, on 03/26/2008, -24/+161too bad azureus was build on the back of the Java behemoth or I'd use it
    • ieure, on 03/26/2008, -21/+5Yeah.
      • dinkydarko, on 03/26/2008, -6/+64I recently switched to µTorrent. wow. much slicker.
        • djbon2112, on 03/27/2008, -0/+2If uTorrent was OSS, it would be the most killer app out there, at least for downloading torrents. Wait, it still is ;)
    • MrTea, on 03/26/2008, -4/+19Do you keep jre updated? It's pretty fast for me.
      • mrsteveman1, on 03/26/2008, -3/+18Fast like "it's just as fast as a native app" or fast like "i'm not doing anything else at the time so i don't notice it sucking".

        Java isn't the problem anyway, Azureus is poorly written thats why it's slow.
        • ethan961, on 03/26/2008, -3/+17I don't know why so many other people have so much trouble with it eating resources like a pig, it runs as fast as a native app for me. Maybe I'm just magic.
        • dark_helmet, on 03/26/2008, -3/+18Compare its CPU and memory usage to uTorrent, then you'll really see the difference. Most people have the resources to throw around, so it doesn't make a big difference, but when you're using an older computer, Azureus is a pig.
      • jgtg32a, on 03/26/2008, -1/+9Fast isn't the issue, it uses so much ram.
    • Gotar, on 03/26/2008, -7/+8It's true I've tried Azureus twice on two different machines, and yeah it uses a lot of resources.
      • MrViklund, on 03/27/2008, -0/+2Heh? You must be using a computer from 1995. It's true that Azureus isn't the lightest client out there but it has a tone of features and settings. Right now I have probaly 300 torrent loaded in Azureus and 10 plugins and it's using 150 MB of RAM and 2-3% CPU. They have made allot of progress when it comes to CPU and memory foot print in the last couple of updates. You should keep JAVA updated too. One trick you might try is to lower the amount of connections Azureus make over all and for each torrent. That will lower the CPU usage.
    • mCanada, on 03/26/2008, -2/+9It's trully an awesome client with everything you need, but I was using it on a XP1700+ machine and the CPU usage was hitting near %100. Even on wine uTorrent rarely hits %40.
      • nemoder, on 03/26/2008, -0/+9I had the same problem until I realized it was trying to use the GNU java runtime instead of Sun's.
        update-alternatives --config java
      • djbon2112, on 03/27/2008, -0/+3***** man, your uTorrent in wine hits 40%? I've never seen it (in Wine on Linux or native in windows) use more than 20% of the CPU, and that's when it's hash checking torrents. Never seen it use more than 5% otherwise.
        • mCanada, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1yeah I'm not sure. I suspect it's the RAID 5 setup. I ran hdparm and md0 wasn't much faster than the individual drives. I wonder if I've botched something somewhere (probably).
    • Zera, on 03/26/2008, -8/+15I have NEVER understood the "bloated" complaints about Azureus, I have a BT machine with the following specs:

      Pentium II 300, 640 MB Ram, Onboard Video/NIC, Win 2K, and here are my stats since I last restarted:

      9 days, 2 hours, 27 minutes
      19.59 GB Down, 37.76 GB Up (a total of 15 different torrents over this period, YES they are all public domain and LEGAL Documentaries as well as foreign TV)
      CPU Time (on a 300 Mghtz) 34 hours and 12 minutes
      Current memory usage: 83.9 MB
      Peak Memory usage: 148.0 MB

      What the hell people? I don't know where anyone gets this "Azureus is a behemoth" nonsense. And before you say some nonsense about ram being hidden in other applications that are running, nothing else is higher than 12 MB currently, or 46 MB peak. I could take a screenshot of all of this, but if you don't believe me yet, then you'd just accuse me of photoshopping it.
    • lordmetroid, on 03/26/2008, -4/+11There is nothing wrong with Java...
      • fryguy1013, on 03/27/2008, -0/+2i suppose you could make the claim that java the language isn't bad (i still prefer c# due to properties, delegates, and generics), but all of the window managers are terrible. Either they look horrid [on windows], or they are completely unresponsive when the cpu load goes above 10%, or both.
    • th3heretic, on 03/26/2008, -2/+12I might be crazy to think this, but it could be the developers and not the language...
    • Langford, on 03/27/2008, -0/+3I understand the theory involved in your protest, anything requires a standard runtime or virtual machine is going to naturally be bigger and a bit slower, but I use Azureus without any bloat issue, so I guess it isn't too bad.
    • felipe82, on 03/27/2008, -2/+1anyhow, I think it would be a lot better if they released a plugin for utorrent and/or deluge
      • MrViklund, on 03/27/2008, -0/+2No. It's developed by the Azureus guys. Naturally it requires Azureus. Sad that the uTurrent guys can't get a plugin out. Azureus is one of the most popular clients out there.
        • dacheetah, on 03/28/2008, -0/+1Yes, but if Azureus and uTorrent get together to implement this, then they can gather information that all torrent users will benefit from.
    • MrViklund, on 03/27/2008, -1/+2What is FUD if not that... I don't know where to start. But Java is great btw. It is like NET. A Runtime Environment for programs, It may not be the lightest program around but it has tones of features and that's what I like. Have tried uTurrent. Didn't like it.
  • samkline, on 03/26/2008, -5/+22AsSubtle: I have Comcast and my services slows to a crawl when I'm downloading stuff, too. Even when downloading at 15 kb/s with only a half dozen connections open, it still sucks. ***** Comcast. I really wish there was something else available in my area.
  • cultist667, on 03/26/2008, -10/+28Try utorrent 1.8 beta with built in teredo tunneling.
    • cromulent742, on 03/26/2008, -0/+17maybe a stupid question, but does this prevent the throttling?
      • Kurlumbenus, on 03/26/2008, -1/+15There are no stupid questions, only stupid diggers.
      • mrsteveman1, on 03/26/2008, -0/+13Teredo is only obfuscation at this point, as soon as their network equipment is able to recurse into the teredo packets and reconstruct the original data, they will be able to throttle those too.
        • djbon2112, on 03/27/2008, -0/+2Yes, but the question is how long that will take. Even if it only takes them a year, that's another year for devs to develop the next solution. It's a cat and mouse game right now, and we're ahead.
          • dacheetah, on 03/28/2008, -0/+1"I know this game, it's called cat and mouse, and there's only one way to win. Don't be the mouse." - Danny John-Jules (a.k.a. Cat)
    • MrViklund, on 03/27/2008, -3/+1Utorrent is crap.
      • Xplodzion, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1Tell me you are joking right?

        One of the most fastest, smallest, powerfullest and most popular Torrent Clients ever made is crap somehow?
      • dacheetah, on 03/28/2008, -1/+1That's a pretty bad typo. Seems you spelt "MrViklund's Opinion" "Utorrent".
        Also, for the record, it's μTorrent.
    • cultist667, on 03/28/2008, -0/+1Teredo does seem to help with combating the throttling and my speeds hit max in one second I have noticed since I started using it.
  • jakash, on 03/26/2008, -19/+6Video about ISPs throttling BitTorrent traffic:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0719DxMOUY
  • DSSPROXY, on 03/26/2008, -1/+23Azureus may be a behemoth... but it was my first and is very feature rich.. (I also use www.bitlet.org at work)
    • robotto, on 03/26/2008, -0/+3Same here! bitlet.org is awesome, and azureus advanced still my first choice.
    • norman619, on 03/26/2008, -0/+2Yeah plus the free content is cool.
    • j1ggy, on 03/27/2008, -1/+2I just dumped it for uTorrent about 3 days ago, like it much better.
    • MrViklund, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1Yea. It may not be the lightest client around but it has a tone of features and settings. It has served me well for years.
  • lickmyback, on 03/26/2008, -23/+21I stopped using Azureus as soon as it adopted this Vuze licensing crap, I won't be helping Azureus do anything. Transmit FTW
    • digitallysick, on 03/26/2008, -0/+5Transmit is nice, but its slower than azureus , i couldn't get the seem speed out of it.
    • norman619, on 03/26/2008, -0/+18This is not about helping Vuze. It's about helping torrents in general.
    • xsquirrel378x, on 03/26/2008, -1/+16god forbid they make a profit somehow
      • nekochan, on 03/26/2008, -5/+2they can make a profit all they like. just don't secretly turn my azureus black and bright blue and ten times slower.
        • norman619, on 03/26/2008, -1/+7What do you mean by slow? What is slow about it? Honest question. I've only used Bit Torrent and Azureus/Vuze.
          • nekochan, on 03/26/2008, -4/+1vuze, compared to plain azureus, takes longer to start and load your downloads when you open it.
          • norman619, on 03/26/2008, -0/+6@nekochan

            From some of the comments here I was under the impression there was a REAL performance issue with the application.
    • Angostura, on 03/26/2008, -1/+36Just set it to start up in Advanced mode and you will never see Vuze
      • MrMacMan, on 03/26/2008, -0/+3@Angostura
        There is even a classical setting and you will see no media portion in azureus at all!
        • skyroket, on 03/27/2008, -0/+2I typed a really dickish comment here, then my conscience kicked in and I replaced it with this explanation.
    • mrsteveman1, on 03/26/2008, -2/+19You realize the Vuze people are the ones complaining the loudest about what Comcast does because they have a legitimate business model built around P2P, right?

      Without companies like Vuze, Joost and the others, there would be no argument to be made that P2P services are legitimate and thus must not be screwed with.
      • Macskeeball, on 03/26/2008, -0/+4Yes there would be. Linux distros, video game demos, some podcasts (such as Revision3's), South by Southwest (I think), and more recently a few artists such as NIN.
        • mrsteveman1, on 03/26/2008, -0/+2You are talking about things that are also commercial.

          Linux distros come from companies for the most part, video games too, podcasts are almost entirely commercial with advertising supporting them, NIN is without question commercial, etc.

          My point is, these are legitimate business models just like Joost and Vuze, which is the real issue. P2P is not just illegitimate trading, these companies have business models built around it.
          • Macskeeball, on 03/27/2008, -0/+2Apparently I misunderstood what you were saying; I sort of skipped over "the others" and thought you were saying that Vuze and Joost were the only things giving legitimacy to P2P. Now that I've reread your comment, I agree with you. We were making the same point.
      • Winston84, on 03/26/2008, -0/+2Blizzard might not like it either :)
        But the real issue here is not p2p, it's NET-NEUTRALITY ffs .

        about Azureus (the bit-torrent client) .
        If you have 100% CPU-usage something is screwed on your system. It could be a bad java-installation or conflicting software .
        I have azureus running on 0.5-1.5% CPU-usage on a Conroe E6600/1GB RAM. memmory-usage is 38-70MB depending on how many
        torrents are running .
        You can increase load-time significantly by re-compressing azureus2.jar and the jars in the java-DIR, especially " rt.jar " .
        Kjar is made for the purpose http://supremej2me.bambalam.se/download/kjar.zip and can reduce jar-size upto 50% .
        UPX'ing all the .dll's and exe's also helps .
        If you don't like Vuze just Google "NoVuze"
      • xsquirrel378x, on 03/26/2008, -0/+1bittorrent is still nothing more than a network protocol. you cant classify P2P as a network for pirates. its like calling http a network for porn
        • MxxCon, on 03/26/2008, -1/+2it's not?
        • mrsteveman1, on 03/26/2008, -0/+1That was my point, and these large companies are the ones who are going to get attention and push back against Comcast. Simply saying "but it's how i get my linux! you can't block it!" isn't going to work, but if large companies have business models being hurt by Comcasts network fscking, it's different.
    • MrViklund, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1You can change that in the settings. I don't like Vuze either but you can change it so it looks just as 2.5.x but with the 3.0.x core. It can also be done by installing 2.5.x and the upgrade with the internal update system which then will download the 3.0.x core but keep you 2.5.x interface.
    • lickmyback, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1My problem is that Azureus used to be GPL, and since Vuze came along it is GPL "with restrictions" essentially castrating the original license. This whole P2P activism facade is a red herring. Everyone is quick to jump up and down about grass-roots filesharing principles, but nobody cares about the fact that your software freedoms are being eroded (SLOWLY - I realise that the 'restrictions' are not particularly restrictive yet, but there's no reason why they won't be the thin end of the wedge). ***** Vuze, EFF et. al. do way more for net neutrality than any for-profit organisation ever will.
  • sHockz, on 03/26/2008, -4/+30they will never stop us....

    where there is a will, there is a way
    • jdeuel, on 03/26/2008, -9/+4where there's some kid working at mcdonalds too selfish to pay for his movies
      • vipertech, on 03/26/2008, -0/+4Movies that get made by crew, who are in turn screwed out of cash by over payed executives and actors.
        • Kurlumbenus, on 03/26/2008, -2/+1Screwed over? Do you think they go into a project thinking they'll recieve a share of the gross?
        • fkr3, on 03/26/2008, -0/+3When you'er older and work for a company, do you think you'll receive money every time a product sells? You'll get your salary and eventually if you're lucky a redundancy package and nothing else, like everyone else.

          The majority of people working in movies are just doing it as a job and they're paid to do that job.
      • AsSubtleAsABrik, on 03/26/2008, -1/+7Since when could a kid working at McDonalds afford 10 dollar movie tickets or 20 dollar dvd's on a regular basis anyway. They aren't losing money from him cause he doesn't have any to give them anyway.
        • TJATL, on 03/26/2008, -3/+1yes he does because he has no other ***** bills...
      • TJATL, on 03/26/2008, -1/+2exactly
      • Drakoola, on 03/27/2008, -0/+3As long as you buy the movies/games you like or are good quality. If you put money into things that took effort (Orange Box) producers will put out more stuff like it. So go ahead and torrent crappy movies, but support the ones that deserve it.
        • jdeuel, on 03/27/2008, -0/+0you're right, every studio has the funds to make an orange box with all the cash they raked in from HL1 and HL2

          ..in that perfect world you live in
    • Chassit, on 03/26/2008, -0/+2Yarr matey!
  • SSCrow, on 03/26/2008, -15/+58Once upon a time Azureus was king of Bittorrent Clients on Digg.
    It seems as though most digg users have purchased inferior machines because they constantly bitch about the performance requirements it demands on a system.
    • titlesaysitall, on 03/26/2008, -23/+19No, because Java sucks so hard it surpasses every porn star's mouth on a factor of over 9,000.
      • Angostura, on 03/26/2008, -2/+6Err, Azureus runs just fine on this old iMac. No particular performance issues.
        • Kurlumbenus, on 03/26/2008, -6/+6Of course, there's nothing worth torrenting that'll run on a mac...
        • danielsamuels, on 03/26/2008, -3/+4@Kurlumbenus:
          Yeah because Adobe didn't originally make all of their apps for Mac.
          Of course we can't watch .avi or .mvk files either can we?

          Fool.
          • Kurlumbenus, on 03/26/2008, -2/+2Yeah, I'm such a fool. Now excuse me while I play Bioshock while waiting for Spore and Fallout 3.
          • danielsamuels, on 03/27/2008, -2/+1Ever heard of Boot Camp? I heard that allows you to run Windows on a Mac pretty well, and play the aforementioned games.
          • Drakoola, on 03/27/2008, -1/+2Wow Kurlumbenus, I would never buy a mac in my life, but you take fanboyism to a whole new level. "nothing worth torrenting on a mac", if you want to rag on macs there are plenty of legitimate things to say this isn't one of them. Spore is coming out for macs as well, and maybe he doesn't play games, not everyone does you know (this is coming from somebody who plays 3 hours of Counter Strike a day).
            Fool.
          • Kurlumbenus, on 03/27/2008, -0/+2Also, owning a mac renders you sterile. STERILE. Its like twice as dangerous as sitting on the microwave.
      • MrMacMan, on 03/26/2008, -2/+1unnecessary use of 'over 9000'.
      • SanTe, on 03/26/2008, -0/+2What is it about Java that supposedly suck so hard? I'm being serious. I read this criticism a lot. Many people have an aversion to Java that is never explained.
      • th3heretic, on 03/26/2008, -0/+2People who say Java sucks really need to get a grip, or not post their opinions when they have NO IDEA what they're talking about.
        • Giga, on 03/27/2008, -0/+2I hate Java. Immensely. Then again, I am thinking about Java on my cellphone, where it actually does actually perform like crap. On a desktop, it isn't too bloated, but the GUI toolkits in Java rarely match up with native looking toolkit elements. And even if they do get close, changing your theme affects native apps but not Java ones.
    • neoLeech, on 03/26/2008, -6/+10no I just want to do other things while it leeches and seeds
      • Chassit, on 03/26/2008, -2/+7I game while running torrents...sounds like you need to upgrade.
        • neoLeech, on 03/26/2008, -1/+42.2ghz core 2, 2gb of ram (laptop)
          i do lots of things while i torrent, just using utorrent instead
      • norman619, on 03/26/2008, -0/+3I seed 8 files plus download 4 or 5 at the same time. I see no performance hit to my system. How old is your system?
      • Drakoola, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1Theres a button in the corner of the window that puts Azureus onto the task bar, that way you can open other things. I assume that's your problem because my laptop has a mere 1.8 ghz Athlon 64 (a hell of a lot worse than yours) and 2gb of 667 ram and it chews up Azureus while playing Counter Strike. I can't tell the difference whether it's on or off.
        • Giga, on 03/27/2008, -0/+0Er... minimising to the task bar or whatever you are describing does not affect the engine that is running in the background. If the GUI really was the problem, the developers really ***** up somewhere.
    • cgbspender, on 03/26/2008, -1/+25Well, downloading torrents is a task that some (modded) routers can do, running an embedded OS on slower hardware than the average PDA. You dont need a quadcore for that ;)
      I really like Java and Azureus is a good program, but why should I chose the fatter program when a smaller one can do the same job?
      • cnot3, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1Because they are trying to fight comcast!
    • xtremesniper, on 03/26/2008, -2/+15Agreed. Azureus really isn't that bad if you have a half decent system. My 3.0ghz P4 handled it handsomely, and my Core Duo Macbook torrents as if there's nothing going on at all. Both with only 1GB RAM.
    • BOFH2, on 03/26/2008, -4/+2I guess I never noticed. Although I consider myself a medium BT user. I download less then 8 GB/month
      • norman619, on 03/26/2008, -3/+2wow. I do that in about a week.
        • AsSubtleAsABrik, on 03/26/2008, -1/+6I wish my e-penis was that big. I'm just average, about 6 ='s.
          8======>
          See?
          • norman619, on 03/26/2008, -0/+1It's nice that you get off on showing people your private parts.

            8 GB a month is VERY little. The average person who uses torrents does far more. Per week. I wouldn't expect you to understand that since you've made it clear you are too fixated on your genitals to think.
    • frsrblch, on 03/26/2008, -0/+4I've actually never noticed any problems, and I don't really care to put the effort into switching.
    • Zera, on 03/26/2008, -1/+7I have NEVER understood the "bloated" complaints about Azureus, I have a BT machine with the following specs:

      Pentium II 300, 640 MB Ram, Onboard Video/NIC, Win 2K, and here are my stats since I last restarted:

      9 days, 2 hours, 27 minutes
      19.59 GB Down, 37.76 GB Up (a total of 15 different torrents over this period, YES they are all public domain and LEGAL Documentaries as well as foreign TV)
      CPU Time (on a 300 Mghtz) 34 hours and 12 minutes
      Current memory usage: 83.9 MB
      Peak Memory usage: 148.0 MB

      What the hell people? I don't know where anyone gets this "Azureus is a behemoth" nonsense. And before you say some nonsense about ram being hidden in other applications that are running, nothing else is higher than 12 MB currently, or 46 MB peak. I could take a screenshot of all of this, but if you don't believe me yet, then you'd just accuse me of photoshopping it.
      • MrViklund, on 03/27/2008, -0/+3Yea. Agree with you. But ppl are probably using computers from 1995.
        Ppl generally mistakes features for bloat, or what ever the hipp term is now. I have used Azureus for ever and it works great. It can consume allot of memory if you have allot of torrents in it but that no problems with todays machines. The Vuze is nothing I like. But you can change that in the interface so i looks and stays just as the 2.5.x version. When it comes to memory foot print they have done huge improvements over the past couple of upgrades.
    • MrViklund, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1Azureus is king. It's probaly not as light as uTorrent but it's heavy on features and settings which ppl generally are confusing with bloat. I don't like Vuze either. I think it's stupid. But you can change all that in the settings so it looks just like Azureus 2.5.x but with the 3.0.x core. I have been using Azureus for years and I have never had any problems. I have tried uTurrent which is too boring for me. Probably best for novice users. But as you said. It seems like ppl here on Digg have upgraded to computers from 1995 or something. Even tough they have 2 GB RAM in the machine they are complaining about FF eating 300 MB of RAM when they surf with 20 tabs open. But as I mentioned. Azureus is probably not the most light weight client, but it's a feature rich and settings rich client. Good for novice users as well as power-users that want to run their own trackers with full controll.
  • jdeuel, on 03/26/2008, -15/+5as long as your signing on with some company for your internet, it's their rules

    stop bitching and find a new isp, and if you're out of options, you're out of luck

    welcome to america
    • PhantomRogue, on 03/26/2008, -4/+3Wrong. Its Welcome to A Corporate Run America. Gone is the fact that the Public should decide who/where/when/what/why. Now some giant corporation tells us what our best interest is; when the only interest they follow is hindering innovation and expansion and increasing their profits.
      • TJATL, on 03/26/2008, -2/+1go move to some socialist utopia then. quit stealing ***** and keeping money out of the market place. if you can not afford a $10 album or a $15 movie, then you need a better ***** job or need to pick up another one. you are a ***** tool.
    • SteveMax, on 03/26/2008, -4/+2What about those of us that don't live in America? As far as I know, most illegal immigrants from Latin American countries aren't exactly "welcome" there...
      Or is that the American way of saying "resistance is futile, you will be assimilated"?
      • TJATL, on 03/26/2008, -1/+2wtf does that have to do with anything?
        • SteveMax, on 03/26/2008, -0/+1"as long as your signing on with some company for your internet, it's their rules
          stop bitching and find a new isp, and if you're out of options, you're out of luck
          welcome to america"

          He quotes the American way, where the government and the people cannot interfere in a company's business model except by the "free market" approach (don't give them money and, when it's more profitable to do so, they will change to a more consumer-friendly approach). "Welcome to America".
          There are countries in which that isn't true. In some places, Internet access is regarded as a public concession, so the companies have to follow some terms that were agreed upon with the government. As the time passes, those terms are reviewed, to make sure the company is acting on the best interest of the consumer. In those places, you aren't "out of luck" just because one ISP is a piece of *****; you can actually make some changes to their contracts, and make their service better.
          Taking into account the fact that the American behaviour doesn't extend to the whole world (and the fact that American companies and government have been trying to inflict the American rules everywhere around the world) his "welcome to america" comment sounded as a threat to those of us who live under different rules.
          (The Latin Americans comment was a fruit of a starving mind, please disregard it.)
      • CCmachined, on 03/26/2008, -0/+1dugg for ST quote xD
    • ShinRaTDR, on 03/26/2008, -0/+2"as long as your signing on with some company for your internet, it's their rules"
      See if you solve your country's social problems with that attitude, its been working great so far.

      /Sarcasm
    • CoolWind, on 03/26/2008, -1/+1WTF? "as long as your signing on with some company for your internet": have you found some other way to get to the Internet?
    • unrealmp3, on 03/26/2008, -1/+1PMS ?
    • Lukesed, on 03/26/2008, -0/+1"stop bitching and find a new isp, and if you're out of options, you're out of luck"

      How defeatist. Do you let everyone walk all over you, or just large companies?
  • Aines, on 03/26/2008, -5/+42Good news. Now if they only did an equivalent plugin for μtorrent...
    • MrViklund, on 03/27/2008, -2/+1It's for Azureus. Naturally it requires Azureus. I have used Azureus for ever and it's great. It will be a cold day in hell when I install uTurrent crap on my machine.
      • Aines, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1Azureus is a resource hog, like any Java application with an interface, while μtorrent weights a total of 217Kb, has light-speed start up and has more functionalities than the average user will ever use (and know).

        Whoever say μtorrent is crap, probably has never even used it once.
  • killerkabuki, on 03/26/2008, -5/+3I thought encrypting transfers in azureus allowed you to "bypass" throttling.
    • Flinty, on 03/26/2008, -1/+12I believe it depends on the sophistication of the traffic shapers
    • okaroleo, on 03/26/2008, -1/+3Bit torrent is a protocol, which means ISP can target it, encryption only protects content of the transmission, not hot it is processed by ISPs.
      • vipertech, on 03/26/2008, -0/+5Bit Torrent still rides on a TCP/IP backbone. If you encrypt your TCP/IP traffic containing the bit torrent traffic you shouldn't see any hindrance from your ISP unless they're throttling specific ports (which you can just avoid by tunneling over port 80) or just slowing down all encrypted traffic (YAY for slow banking/email reading! SSL FTW!)
    • killerkabuki, on 03/26/2008, -0/+1Installed it and sure enough, encrypting your transfers does not help (using qwest)
  • CajunGuitarist, on 03/26/2008, -4/+10I have been using Azureus 2.5 for a long time now. When Vuze got a hold of it I didn't like it and did some "upgrading". But I gotta say that although it does suck down the system resources and I can literally watch my download and upload speed increase greatly as I start closing programs, it is probably my favorite BitTorrent client. To many features to ignore in my opinion.
    • MrViklund, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1If you have a computer from 1995. I have been using Azureus for ever. Have never had a problem. But ppl think that every program with allot of settings and that takes more then 10 MB of ram is heavy. I don't like Vuze, but you can change all that in the settings so it looks just like Azureus 2.5.x but with the 3.0.x core. But you can also install 2.5.x and upgrade. Then it will install the Azureus 3.0.x core but keep the 2.5.x interface. But. As I said. You can change 3.0.x to look and STAY as 2.5.x. It's in the settings.
  • robfis, on 03/26/2008, -3/+4I thought azureus had a java free version now?
    • keeperofkeys, on 03/26/2008, -0/+4You may be thinking of μtorrent (aka utorrent), which is an implementation of most of Azureus' features as a native Windows app. Much faster and less resource hungry (but trails behind Azureus a little in terms of features).
      • linkdj, on 03/26/2008, -2/+8If adding a bloated video library on top of a bloated bittorrent client counts as "features"
    • MrViklund, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1Java free? Jeees get a clue. When will uTorrent have a windows free client?
      Java is a Run time Environment like .Net... Azureus is wrtten in Java.
  • jessethouin, on 03/26/2008, -1/+33OK, here's how to do this if you have your own server outside a Comcast network (or whatever network is blocking your torrent traffic).

    1. Set up Azurues (or whatever client) to use a SOCKS proxy on port 7777 (or whatever's not being used), and to use port 23456 (or whatever) for NAT/Traffic.
    2. Set up your SSH server (the remote machine) with these options: GatewayPorts yes, AllowTcpForwarding yes, KeepAlive yes, TCPKeepAlive yes
    3. Fire up terminal (or whatever) and issue this command: ssh -2 -R 23456:localhost:23456 -A -D 7777 user@remote-host

    My understanding is you can use PuTTy, but I'm on either Ubuntu or OS X, so I don't really know about that. Hope this helps.

    Oh, and don't worry if you see errors in the terminal like "channel 3: open failed: connect failed: Connection timed out." There's nothing wrong with your connection; those errors are coming from your SSH client (your local machine).
    • digjam, on 03/26/2008, -0/+17AWESOME..! (If only I could understand what you said)
    • dark_helmet, on 03/26/2008, -0/+7Or, just simply download the torrent on the remote server (which probably has some sort of fast connection) then pull it over unencrypted HTTP from that server. Why use your slow, asymmetrical connection when you can download the files faster, then seed them like a madman (or just to 1.5 if you're less insane) in minutes.
      • socialismEVIL, on 04/08/2008, -0/+1Running socks/SSH on the remote machine it'll be less obvious what you're doing.
    • Terr01, on 03/26/2008, -0/+5Of course, there's one unspoken thing in your example which some people might miss:

      "Use another ISP when using bittorrent". (i.e.: The one your server has.)

      That's really the secret sauce here.
    • MrMacMan, on 03/26/2008, -1/+2How many people meet the requirement
      'if you have your own server' and don't already use that server to download torrents.
      And by torrents I mean porn.
  • shmatt, on 03/26/2008, -14/+11no Mac version yet, FYI
    • jgtg32a, on 03/26/2008, -3/+6Its written in Java
      • zerodefect, on 03/26/2008, -1/+4It says right in the release notes that's it not Mac compatible.
  • ijacker, on 03/26/2008, -9/+2weird, Digg's front page is down, but the google widget still works...
  • RapidEye, on 03/26/2008, -1/+8I downloaded and installed the plug in a couple of nights ago. My only real problem with it is that it gives you a bunch of info, but doesn't really tell you what it means or what are good/bad numbers for each item its logging. Going to the Azureus wiki for more info yields little extra guidance.
    FWIW I'll run it, but without additional info, I can't tell you if its good or bad...
  • tfujiwara6, on 03/26/2008, -1/+1thank God for bellsouth, lmao. I used to think that bellsouth WAS limiting my bandwidth, but a quick fixing of the router fixed that ;)
  • zomfg, on 03/26/2008, -1/+5dugg / installed for great justice
  • SHv2, on 03/26/2008, -8/+3Will Azureus help me by not sucking up all my RAM after running for a few days straight?
    • Chassit, on 03/26/2008, -0/+2It helps me in the way you just described :)
  • riddlebox, on 03/26/2008, -0/+3I helped fight bittorrent by using utorrent which lets me run more torrents seeding and leeching bittorrent back to health. Now my system loves me, and Comcast hates me. We live in harmony.
  • SpookyApplePie, on 03/26/2008, -1/+40COMCAST SUCKS

    ***** YOU COMCAST
  • brainboy77, on 03/26/2008, -2/+2comcast just throttled my connection, i can't download torrents anymore. i'm just waiting for verizon to turn it's services. bye-bye comca$t.
  • knobtwiddler, on 03/26/2008, -3/+6i love azureus
  • slugicide, on 03/26/2008, -3/+5"Right now the plug-in only works on PCs, not Macs[...]"
    Apparently Linux users aren't even worth the effort it takes to depress five keys on the keyboard.
  • ktomb03, on 03/26/2008, -0/+4too bad I already got rid of comcast.
  • RobotLeAwesome, on 03/26/2008, -3/+7I blame Hillary Clinton.
  • TJATL, on 03/26/2008, -16/+3What a bunch of douchebags yall are. Complaining about an ISP(s) that limits bandwith of a protocol that's overwhelmingly used to distribute copyrighted materials? You really can't afford a $10 album or a $15 movie? Hell, not even a $10/month blockbuster/netflix subscription? Go get a better job or a second job and quit being a ***** leech on the marketplace. You're stealing, plain and simple. You can argue all you want that you are not, but there are no royalties that go to the artists, writers, etc of the media. You're lack of respect for other people's property is not sticking it to the man, but also the effects the low people on the totem poll. Trickle down microeconomics. If you really don't want to pay for something, then grow some balls and go to your local Best Buy find a cd or movie you want and steal it. If the cops for some reason catch you, just tell them if you liked it you were going to come back and pay for it. I'm sure they will be cool with it. Grow up already.
    • jcr223, on 03/26/2008, -2/+2sounds like TJ has a 9-5 at comcast setting up internet connections for peoples homes? based off commission maybe?
    • thejynxed, on 03/26/2008, -2/+3Even when you purchase via your precious retail channels, those same people you mentioned don't see a dime of that money. It all goes to the corporate leaders and to the company bottom line. That's what you don't seem to be understanding. There's too many middle-men. Quite a few of us would be more than happy to purchase directly from the artists, etc, only most of the time, that option isn't available.
    • maz2331, on 03/26/2008, -1/+7Hey, Douchebag....

      I use BT almost exclusively to D/L Linux distros. It's about the only way to download them nowadays. I don't even care about movies an music and listen almost exclusively to talk radio.
      • TJATL, on 03/26/2008, -5/+1you are an exclusion not the rule hence why i said overwhelmingly used for illegal copy/distribution.
    • ExSlashdotter, on 03/27/2008, -0/+2First of all, everything you say would make sense in a perfect world. And by perfect world, i mean a world not controlled by the RIAA/MPAA where the artist gets *ZERO* in the first place. I had no problem sending my paypal dollars to Trent Reznor a couple weeks ago. You know why? He gets it. His music had no DRM, and rightly so, because I friggin paid for it.

      You can take your HDCP and your PlaysForSure and shove them up your ass (along with all the others).

      This is a lesson the RIAA/MPAA need to learn before they'll get even one more of my dollars.
  • P5ycHo, on 03/26/2008, -2/+4just use the usenet
    • jgtg32a, on 03/26/2008, -0/+4First rule of Usenet?
      • lordmetroid, on 03/26/2008, -1/+1No one knows where usenet is located...
        • microchp, on 03/27/2008, -1/+1Keep it that way. if the kiddies figure out giganews+newsbinpro+SSL they will have a heart attack.
    • sylvok, on 03/26/2008, -1/+3Only problem is that most usenet groups need to have a paid sub
      • microchp, on 03/27/2008, -0/+2Cheaper than lawsuits+prison+forced-buttsecks.
  • TimeLincoln, on 03/26/2008, -2/+2uTorrent is much better, azureus switched to it stupid media format and messed everything up, but still throttling is wrong.
    • MrViklund, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1You have no clue at all. I don't like Vuze, but you can change all that in the settings so it looks just like Azureus 2.5.x but with the 3.0.x core.
  • aletornw, on 03/26/2008, -2/+1Viva Fibertel!
  • Gregbertt, on 03/26/2008, -4/+0Hmm. Mixed feelings on this, myself. I might occasionally download something - so I'm no angel - but I hate the thought of some creepy, oily bandwidth abuser with three or four computers downloading 10 torrents each 24/7. Those clods ruin it for the rest of us.
    • emotecontrol, on 03/26/2008, -0/+4Did he enter into an agreement with an ISP that promised him unlimited internet usage? If he did and they renege, they're the creepy, oily bandwidth abusers. They have an obligation to be forthright about the terms of use of their service before accepting money for that service. If they try to weasel out after they've pocketed the users' payments, especially in clandestine ways such as bandwidth throttling, they're doing business in bad faith and deserve to be sanctioned.
    • ExSlashdotter, on 03/27/2008, -0/+2Agreed. Greg is missing the point. The ISP has got you thinking that the users can be the bad guy by actually *USING* the bandwidth they pay for.

      If they advertise X mb/sec, I ought to be able to expect that whenever I want. Don't sell me that service, and then turn around and tell me i'm spoiling it for everybody else by actually doing something with it. I pay friggin $60/month for cable internet. God forbid if i want to do something besides check my mail every other day.
  • aserer511, on 03/26/2008, -1/+2fight the power
  • RyeBrye, on 03/26/2008, -1/+1Comcast shouldn't be throttling bandwidth back. BUT - there is a VERY interesting backstory on the whole issue that made it to the front page a little while ago. The whole TCP/IP implementation currently is not very well done, and needs to be tweaked to allow for both faster torrenting AND better service for casual users.

    http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=1078
  • Sawta, on 03/26/2008, -5/+1When it becomes available for mac, I'll *ahem* tell my friend to download it.
    • RyeBrye, on 03/27/2008, -0/+3Azureus has been avaliable on mac for a long long time... like five or six years or something.
  • AvangionQ, on 03/26/2008, -1/+2"Last November Azureus petitioned the FCC, resulting in a FCC hearing which was held a month ago. One of the issues raised there, was that there is little data available on the scope of BitTorrent throttling, a gap Azureus now plans to fill. "We at Vuze (Azureus) decided there was something important you can do to help elevate the debate," says Jay Monahan, General Counsel at Azureus. "We created a simple software 'plug-in' that works with your Vuze (Azureus) application to gather information about potential interference with your Internet traffic."" ... absolutely amazing work!
  • LightSpeed4, on 03/26/2008, -8/+1lets hope the bittorrents get destroyed
  • lordmetroid, on 03/26/2008, -2/+1Obviously you just don't buy a comcast connection and you are all set...
    How hard can it be folks?
    • ExSlashdotter, on 03/27/2008, -1/+1How about if its the only broadband connection available in your area, smartypants?
      • socialismEVIL, on 04/08/2008, -0/+1That's only true if you live underground, you cheap bastard. Satellite broadband is always an option. So is broadband through your wireless phone carrier.

    • bernlin2000, on 03/27/2008, -1/+1It's hard when...this sounds crazy...there's nobody else in your area. So then, its either you get internet through comcast or you get nothing
    • Idolatry, on 03/27/2008, -1/+1The worst part about it is that for me my office has a setup with ***** and that's the only way I can remotely connect to my office server to work from home. It sucks.
  • Topher06, on 03/26/2008, -3/+1I fought ISP throttling by switching from Azureus to uTorrent. Azureus went corporate and its broken.
    • Katnap, on 03/26/2008, -0/+2compared to uTorrent which is closed source and owned by bittorrent inc? Azureus Vuze thing is annoying but theyre at least still open source and developing for all platforms.
    • MrViklund, on 03/27/2008, -1/+1You have no clue at all. I don't like Vuze, but you can change all that in the settings so it looks just like Azureus 2.5.x but with the 3.0.x core.
  • unrealmp3, on 03/26/2008, -4/+3***** Comscat
  • Gullop, on 03/26/2008, -2/+1lol @ your monopoly
  • SausageSmith, on 03/27/2008, -1/+0Bittorrent is growing and is future proof. Just wait and see someone smart enough to set up an ISP that specializes in high speeds for Bittorrent users. They'll put ***** outa business.
  • microchp, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1There is one thing I should add to this because I know it will come up. Don't use "speed test" sites for any kind of throughput comparison. The way most ISP's have changed their QoS policies will show really good results to those sites even if your average throughput is only 1/10th of that speed. They are allowing bursting for up to 30 seconds in some cases which is enough to get really good results on speed test sites.
  • fxu1989, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1http://www.azureuswiki.com/index.php/Bad_ISPs#Unit ...

    I have Bellsouth, so I guess I shouldn't run this, doesn't block anything and I haven't seen a change in my download speeds...

    Yay me.
  • ssjkakaroto, on 03/27/2008, -1/+1They should do a stand-alone program that could work with all bt clients and systems.
    • MrViklund, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1No. It is developed by the Azureus guys so it naturally requires Azureus. Use [x]Torrent if you want. But then you are out of luck.
  • compaholic, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1I left Comcast like the Jews left Jesus when FIOS came in to town!!!!!!
    VIVA LA FIOS!
  • kuppoppo, on 03/27/2008, -6/+0Yeah, let's all help Azureus spread illegal content, you stupid *****.
  • MrViklund, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1Azureus is a great Bittorrent client. Have always used it. It can be a bit advanced for inexperienced users tough. And it's not so heavy any more. They have made allot of progress on that front the last couple of updates.
    Well. I have never had any problems with it but for some ppl it is like if it has too many settings and uses more then 10 MB of RAM its bloat. People should really get some new computers.
  • bernlin2000, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1My dorm uses Resnet, but I haven't had any filesharing problems, so my school (UCF) has a "good" ISP, I suppose. Certainly bandwidth isn't affected: I've had my total upload go above 2.2 megabytes/sec when I do throttle it myself. Of course, I can never get my download speed at the level, so maybe they're just throttling download
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