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- em00guy, on 08/29/2008, -3/+30There's been a lot criticism about the unmoderated nature of Androids' marketplace. I counter that a democratic social ecosystem has been proven over and over again in the past 5 years. I mean, what are we all doing now? The Iphone is a wonderful piece of technology, but their black box approval process lends itself to business motivations that frustrate users and tether the device from its fullest potential.
- stoanhart, on 08/29/2008, -2/+23Once Google releases all of the code, which they claim they will, then anyone can implement a market place. I don't see how this is "closed".
- em00guy, on 08/29/2008, -1/+16There is no reason to wait for Google to release their code. One could create their own package management system with their own unique distribution model. Perhaps an enterprising individual could port Debians' apt or FreeBsds' ports system. If the OS is indeed open (as we've been told) the community can fix what ever shortcomings exist in the release software.
- Loornadune, on 08/30/2008, -1/+11The only bad thing about this is that I can see a lot of good apps and content get lost in a sea of ***** apps that don't really work/do anything. I guess the ratings system will help with that, but even still. Either way, I can't wait for this to get closer to release.
- rowjimmy, on 08/30/2008, -0/+10fta, "In an entry posted on the Official Android developer blog, Google mobile platform program manager Eric Chu says that the Android Market will be open to all third-party developers and applications will not have to be vetted prior to inclusion" - in other words, while apple reserves the right to censor any applications as they see fit, google will not do this. again, fta, "Developers will be able to make their content available on an open service hosted by Google that features a feedback and rating system similar to YouTube," wrote Chu. "We chose the term 'market' rather than 'store' because we feel that developers should have an open and unobstructed environment to make their content available. Similar to YouTube, content can debut in the marketplace after only three simple steps: register as a merchant, upload and describe your content and publish it."
read before shooting off at the mouth. - MrNonchalant, on 08/30/2008, -0/+8In fact, they could probably distribute this new alternative market on the current market. There's supposed to be no review process so it's not like Google would block it.
- JorgeGT, on 08/30/2008, -2/+9"It just works" ? Are you repeating Apple's memes and advertisement phrases in your daily speaking? It's like using "the wow starts now" or "where do you want to go today", talking about Microsoft... Just sad.
- missingnoh4x, on 08/30/2008, -1/+8I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and guess that the author envisions a more distributed system.
- rowjimmy, on 08/30/2008, -1/+6go develop for windows mobile if you're only interested in profits. the FOSS movement doesn't need your help, thanks.
- zoomzoom83, on 08/30/2008, -3/+8So... what the article was basically getting at is "This isn't apt-get, therefore it sucks"?
- EtherGnat, on 08/30/2008, -0/+5"but the simple fact that no developer can set up his or her own android market"
Have you seen any proof of this? While Google manages the Android Market, as far as I know you're welcome to install any software you like from any source you like on the phone. Presumably that would included developing alternative package distribution systems like Apt. Sure, you wouldn't have instant access to millions of phone owners, but the option is still there.
I have no problem with Google taking as much control over the Android Market as they'd like (although less is always better) as long as there are alternate legal methods for loading software. - missingnoh4x, on 08/30/2008, -3/+8Apple's AppStore is absolutely terrible. They decide what you can and can't distribute, and just getting a copy of the SDK in the first place costs plenty. Not to mention all the 'kill switch' controversy.
I don't know if Android's market is ideal, but it's one hell of a step in the right direction. - rowjimmy, on 08/30/2008, -0/+5no, what the article was getting at is, unlike most packaging systems developed for *nix environments, the android market will not be distributed. this disallows users from setting up their own repositories (for example, there are 3rd party apt repositories for AV-codecs that aren't allowed by debian's stringent GNUish policies) or running backups of the "official" ones. while the claim that this "creates a central point of failure" is a bit unwarranted, given it is google controlling the servers (i'm sure with a whole bunch of fail-safes) i do understand that claim that this "creates ... a central point of control" - indicative of a move away from an open mobile platform and towards forcing developers and users to deal with one - essentially proprietary - solution for distributing their software.
- turbodiesel, on 08/30/2008, -1/+6"We chose the term 'market' rather than 'store' because we feel that developers should have an open and unobstructed environment to make their content available. Similar to YouTube, content can debut in the marketplace after only three simple steps: register as a merchant, upload and describe your content and publish it."
Is it a cheap shot because he didn't say there was no "vetting", no NDA restriction about describing the work you've done, or the ability to pull an app from a customers phone?
BTW, how are your dogs? - rowjimmy, on 08/30/2008, -1/+5you didn't read the article, eh? the author is complaining that it isn't "democratic" (ie, open) enough because the marketplace itself is controlled by google. not the content, nor access to it (at least not now) - but the simple fact that no developer can set up his or her own android market creates a single point of control that leans much more towards the cathedral than the bazaar. for those that don't get the reference, do yourself a favor and read this: http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar ... (it'll really help you understand what FOSS is all about)
- pocketsurvival, on 08/30/2008, -0/+4The cathedral and bazaar refers to an essay written about Linux kernel development: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the ...
- cran, on 08/30/2008, -2/+5The article basically argues that because Google's handset software browse and buy system isn't "distributed" there's something broken about it. I'm not actually clear on what sort of system the author envisions.
- Aurabolt, on 08/30/2008, -0/+3Bazaar?
Hylian Shield - 80 rupees
40 if you got referred from the Death Mountain guard - ZGambit, on 08/30/2008, -0/+3I must agree with JorgeGT adding to that more competitiors with the size of Google can only bring better innovation. I think it is great that the whole Mobile world is not only depending on the likes of Microsoft and Apple to build the mobile landscape.
In regards to Android "I am excited" :D - supermanred, on 09/01/2008, -0/+3Remember all the times you got Rick Rolled on YouTube... :)
Anyways, this means I can make an app that nobody will check thoroughly, allow it to be a highly rated success for a while before I remotely activate the code that puts Rick Astley playing in a loop on your phone?
Don't like it. They need more scrutiny of apps. Apple is checking the apps more thoroughly than this android store and still ***** apps get through that crash the phone. This "market" is going to kill Android. - secleinteer, on 08/30/2008, -0/+2Android Portage pl0x ;/
- BrendanSheehan, on 08/30/2008, -1/+3There are plusses and minus to both models really, in my opinion.
- insllvn, on 08/31/2008, -0/+2What is missing from the article is Google's responsibility to the end user. A bazaar would be great, and can be done by someone else (the code is all open source, hell get apt to run on it), but not everyone is a power user. A lot of this devices target market will expect anything they download to "just work," and who do you think they will blame if/when it doesn't? Google, or more likely their mobile phone provider. Google wants to sell this thing, and T-Mobile doesn't want its support lines clogged with a thousand questions about why developer X's new super-crap-app doesn't work.
- AmazingAndrex, on 08/30/2008, -0/+2No killer app from the Developer Challenge? You serious?
http://code.google.com/android/adc_gallery/
Go look up Enkin, TuneWiki, and Phonebook 2.0 please. Especially Enkin: http://www.enkin.net/ - serif69, on 08/30/2008, -1/+2Google has a very steep hill to climb at this point. They may have the digg/slashdot reader audience locked in, but even the developers are wary. The winning apps in their development contest show no "killer app" yet, and at least one of the developers who won said he would use the money to port his app to the iPhone. Like most things, the marketplace idea is too extreme, but it's extreme in the opposite direction of the iTunes App Store. There needs to be some sort of middle ground where code is checked prior to uploading, and there is a small bit of moderation, but not a long application and approval system. Hopefully both Google and Apple will hear their developers' and customers' complaints about their distribution methods and we will have two very strong choices of distribution for two very strong platforms.
- cran, on 08/31/2008, -0/+1Which part of the system should be distributed? The purchase part or the software delivery part? If they want the purchase end distributed, meaning multiple vendors sell directly using Google as an aggregator, we already have that. It's called a browser. A browser lets you go to any merchant you like. If they want the software delivery distributed, I have to ask why? Why would the consumer care? If Google's system delivers fast and reliably, why would the consumer want a non-Google entity chained in and delivering their software?
Again, whatever the author envisions, it's not clear. Frankly, I can't even make up something that makes sense. - rowjimmy, on 08/30/2008, -0/+1when i said "android market" i meant the specific package-distribution system they've developed. i'm sure that it's possible to port something like APT to the android, and that this will eventually happen - but the article's (I feel well-warranted) concerns were that the "official" distribution system is not open for other people to use outside of its google implementation.
i definitely concede your point, and look forward to that happening, but i do think it is a bit backwards of google to not release the marketplace they've developed (that presumably just works ®) for other people to set up package-distribution repositories, especially since they've really marketed android as an open-mobile platform. imo, a proprietary gateway has no place in an open network... - bovox, on 08/30/2008, -3/+4Why does the UI have to look so UGLY? Seriously.
- 4321234, on 08/30/2008, -0/+1You're being dugg down for busting the myth that all foss is created by long haired hackers working out of their basement because it's really cool to give stuff away.
- cjhowe, on 08/30/2008, -0/+1Don't go too far out on that limb, you're in uncharted waters. /s
- anshuman, on 08/30/2008, -0/+1Dugg for indian rupees :D
(command Bazaar is indian term guys , like karma ...etc...,get the drift? - julieBi, on 12/03/2008, -0/+1This is a great idea, I hope they won't make the same mistakes as Apple.
Maybe one day there will be some open source web store (there must be one already).
http://www.fixya.com/support/p982210-google_androi ...
Is a good source for android problems and how to fix them.
C ya. - insllvn, on 08/31/2008, -0/+1It is quite clear to me what the author wants, he names it: APT. This is not APT, so this is wrong. It is an ideological, as opposed to a technical, complaint
- JLP39, on 08/31/2008, -0/+14321234 thanks for the tip.
We are strong proponents of the FOSS movement, but we also do have to put food on our tables and prefer to do so as a small business.
The Windows Mobile development distribution is horrible, but in order to provide an environment that prevents the little guys from getting quashed, taken advantage of, or pushed out of the market, like the current WM scene, there needs to be an easy common way for ecommerce, even if it's in the form of donations. Small Palm devs were already taken advantage in the previous smartphone ecommerce options.
In addition, if the Market wants to get mainstream users to use it--it needs to be easy for the user. That's the best part of the AppStore--ease of use for the end user. That's what the point of autofulfillment is. - inactive, on 08/30/2008, -2/+3Fanboy/Zombie alert!
- AmazingAndrex, on 08/30/2008, -0/+1Fortunately in one of the screenshots in the article, there's a "Featured Apps" section when you boot up the Market, which should help. Plus word of mouth is usually pretty good, and the ratings (if anything like Amazon's) should help even more.
- anshuman, on 08/30/2008, -1/+1yes, if its just ubuntu, its not totally linux and opensource. slapping anything on ubuntu/apt-get and yelling its linux guys , seems to be trend of noobs this days
- ZachSka87, on 08/30/2008, -2/+2Aw damn....guys....they got Garry! Some weird sound started coming out of his iPhone....kinda like the sound of toilet paper of Steve Jobs ass.....then this is all he could say from then on out. *cries*
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - Her3t1k, on 08/30/2008, -2/+2I'm not really worried about google's servers failing. Not to say that it couldn't happen, but this still owns the ***** out of apple's app store.
- JLP39, on 08/31/2008, -0/+0If a merchant aka software developer can't afford a 'merchant account' to accept credit cards, and people don't want to use PayPal, or the dev doesn't have a website, then the dev can't get donations or sell his software, if that's what he wants to do.
Plus there will be some mainstream users who will shy away from buying software from an unprofessionally presented storefront. (Not all devs are good at website design, nor do all want to be.)
These types of devs could be ultimately taken advantage of by some aggregator for ecommerce who wants to take 50% to run credit cards for them. If Google wants to 'do no evil' they'll need to offer some assistance in this area. Merely hosting an area for downloads isn't enough for distribution for the little guy. - insllvn, on 08/31/2008, -1/+1http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocarina_of_time
http://tinyurl.com/5qheu2 (Shopping with Google)
http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/n64/project64 ...
You are on your own for the ROM, and you're welcome. - pocketsurvival, on 08/30/2008, -2/+1The worst thing about the central point of control would be if Google starts deleting apps like Apple did: http://digg.com/apple/Poof_Introducing_the_Amazing ...
- JLP39, on 08/29/2008, -4/+2From a developer's perspective, Google needs to make the ecommerce part uniform and fulfillment of registration keys seamless to make a customer experience that will be profitable for the developers. If other "market" storefronts crop up, the developers could fall subject to similar, commission-hungry, ESD's we see with the current Palm/Windows Mobile software distribution model. Plus the centralized area for apps, that has proven essential in obtaining volume sales in the AppStore, will be diluted with too many other software archives. And, if customers can't unlock their shareware easily, sales will be lost with their frustrations. The best part of the AppStore, compared to the "old-fashioned" distribution method, is that it makes it much easier for small devs to get their products in front of ALL smartphone users and provides for seamless distribution from download to purchase to fulfillment. It's possible with a more open "Market" but key factors need to be in place to make it successful. I'd like to see something between the AppStore and the smartphone ESD experience. I've detailed this in my blog, Mobile Evolution, if anyone would like to read my points in more detail. http://creativealgorithms.com/blog/
- ayeroxor, on 08/30/2008, -6/+3"Ars looks at the details revealed so far and wonders if it"
Nothing like a lazy submitter to ***** up a submission. But hey, you submitted first; that's all that matters, right? - BrendanSheehan, on 08/30/2008, -7/+2I thought their mantra was "don't be evil". Looks like it was not oft-repeated, enough.
- dstz, on 08/30/2008, -7/+2Most cathedrals were used as gathering place actually, sometime not far at all from a bazaar.
- ronmexico, on 08/30/2008, -9/+2If an article is going to make a claim like "The Android Market offers much more freedom and inclusiveness than Apple's App Store", it needs to provide some evidence of that. The author chooses to slip that little passage in then say nothing about it. Such a cheap shot and poor journalism if one can call it that.
- GarryBarker, on 08/30/2008, -25/+4Apple's implementation just works, it's been perfect for the iPod and no one has come close to matching its brilliance and it will be the same for the app store, Google in all honesty should not be wasting its money by even trying.
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