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89 Comments
- chrisgeleven, on 10/12/2007, -0/+44Couple of points:
1) This has been in Gmail ever since the send as feature was added.
2) It is the receiving e-mail client that determines how this is displayed, NOT Gmail. Outlook for example displays the "On Behalf", while Thunderbird does not.
3) When I looked into it, I found a site (which I cannot find now) that this is to help trace spam back to its original sender. Which makes sense when you think about it. - martona, on 10/12/2007, -0/+31Sender Policy Framework.
If GMail were to send email as user@somedomain.com, and somedomain.com's DNS servers weren't listing GMail's servers as authorized SMTP addresses (and how could they?), the message could end up being flagged as spam.
Spoofing the email's sender is not without repercussions anymore. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+28Tons of information available about this:
http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=gmail+header+sender+field
GMail sets the "Sender" field to the identity of the person who actually sent the email. Technically, this follows the email spec RFC822 (See sections 4.4.1. and 4.4.2.):
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc0822.txt
It kind of sucks, but it prevents Gmail from being used for certain kinds of fraud and I doubt they'll change it. - ccanni1028, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23It has always done this. Even sending to another gMail account will do this.
- qwerty967, on 10/12/2007, -10/+30It's only when Microsoft Outlook, Outlook Express, and MSN Hotmail/Windows Live Mail receives email from Gmail that does this. It's ALWAYS been like that. But don't go blaming Microsoft. Google can change the way they send emails so it doesn't show "on behalf of," but they don't choose to do that.
- shoover, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20DEFINITELY not a recent addition... This was put in place close to a year ago by now.
- lnxaddct, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21It doesn't need to be changed. This is what the specification says to do, and this also prevents a whole group of e-mail fraud and abuse. I don't want them to change it, and hope more e-mail providers implement the spec accordingly.
- SparQy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15If you don't like it, sign up for GMAIL FOR DOMAINS instead of adding an alias to your GMail account.
https://www.google.com/hosted - kabewm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11This is what is referred to as SRS. Without this implementation, the Sender Permitted Framework would be useless. Some people just don't understand the underlying technology they are using.
- SystemBomb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10If you like the Gmail UI and or the Gmail feature set, but don't want to use the @gmail.com domain. Sign up for Google Hosted. It is free and lets you use the Gmail interface for your own domain email: https://www.google.com/hosted It is currently still in a limited beta, but it does give you 2 gigs of storage all from your own domain email account.
- lnxaddct, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11rm999,
This is exactly how e-mail is supposed to behave. They aren't hiding anything, this is what the damn spec says to do. - SingLow, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11This is in my opinion the responsible thing to do. As they are not the authorized mail server for the domain of your email, it would be dishonest of them to portray it as a normal email from the domain that they have only verified belongs to you through a simple send/receive check. Some email servers choose not to do this for external mail domains but then only the geeks know how to find out that it isn't originating in the domain in the from address.
It may be an annoyance to people who want to use it for all of their mail on other domains, but it also makes it less susceptible to phishing type exploitations. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9You are correct. Most spam systems would catch your emails a spoof and at the least tag it as suspect.
- nkassi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Bah! I agree with the above poster. This as always been like this, I think it sucks but at least it prevent people from using the gmail smtp server for what ever they want. Someone could create a gmail account and use it to send spam from multiple different mail addresses. It's a security feature and it shoul stay that way
- Willmonwah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5If you wanted to know how your mail looks, you can go to sent mail and check out the complete message header by clicking "show original". Indeed, Gmail sets the From: field to be whatever you want it to be (and are presumeably authorized to use). However, they can't possibly anticipate everything a client will do (make visible another header field).
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6It's no recent change - even the article linked was written in 2005
- kabewm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5You mean SRS, Sender Rewriting Scheme. It compliments SPF.
- spudge, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5It appears as if this was not in fact posted by Joel himself, but by some dude named Phil.
- SamL, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Marked as lame...
A) This is 6 months old
B) It wasn't "Joel of Joel on Software". He's just hosting the forums. It's clearly "Phil" - bobdole34, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4This is very much by design and follows RFC standards. There's no way they're going to change it, and if you ask me, they shouldn't. Honestly, I'm a surprised this is front page material.. Anyone ever use Outlook at work and send a message from a collogue on vacation? Same thing applies.
- lament, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3lol you have no idea what's going on in this thread.. cuz if you did, you'd know that's not what we're talking about.
- cygnusx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The problem with Live Domains is that Live Mail's Web UI is still not as good as Gmail (and yes, I do use both regularly). People who prefer Gmail are better off with Gmail Hosted.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Phil from marketing, actually.
- simd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3It's entirely right that it should do this. You're not sending from your own mail account, you're sending from a GMail account, pretending to be another email address.
Exchange / Outlook does this too if you send as someone else while logged in as you. It lets the recipient know there may be some doubt.
If you don't like it, sign up for GMail for domains or use another domain hosted email service.
If you're using GMail for business purposes, you should also be aware their mail server IPs are blacklisted by a large number of spam filtering services. - egometry, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I, like many of us, learned about this on diggnation a while back, but nothing was said about the on-behalf-of-ness. So, while not a lie, it's a noteworthy omission, and I'm glad to learn of it.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Sorry...but clearly your life is not so full of excitement that you can't take a few microseconds to spell words properly to avoid looking like a 12 year old AIM user.
- Legion303, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Gee, a free email service follows RFC specs? Where's the story here?
- sensei_zebub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I have eight account filters through GMail. My main address I send from is not a gmail address. I have tested this several times and the From: line always shows the correct address I am meaning to send from not "me@gmail.com On Behalf of me@mydomain.com" I had noticed this "feature" well over a year ago but as far as I've seen it's been fixed and is no longer a "feature". This is old news and inaccurate.
- Bogtha, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3> I just tested this and I dont see the issue. It actually sends mail "as" the address Im sending it as. I sent it to a separate email server (not gmail) tied to outlook and I saw no trace of my personal gmail address.
You're not looking closely enough.
The emails are sent with two headers. The From header lists the address you have set up to send from, and the Sender header lists your GMail address. I've just checked this.
Some mail clients will display one address, some will display the other, and some will display both. Outlook must only display the From address if that's all you see. Check the headers and you will see that the address is definitely there, and it's up to the receiving mail client as to how it is displayed (if at all).
So please, no more comments about how it's not there. Check your headers, it's there. If your mail clients doesn't show it to you, then file a bug with the mail client developers. - comomolo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This is the typical humans vs computer geeks discussion. Humans, common sense people, understand the stupidity of showing the email address you're just trying to hide. Computer geeks, non-humans, common-senseless people, invoke a standard as their mantra.
If you don't need to hide your gmail address, you don't need that another "from" address in first place. It's so simple that it's hard to go so down trying to explain it... - Jeremy78703, on 02/18/2009, -0/+2I can't believe it's 2009 and Google still has not changed this.
If they are so worried about spammers using them to send email, they should give you the ability to give them an alternate SMTP server through which they'll direct your email. I have a secure password-protected SMTP service that I pay for, and I could easily give Google the ability to send email through it.
The fact is, if Google wants you us to replace Outlook with Gmail, they're going to have to make their services play well with other services. Gmail is as much an email CLIENT that happens to be web-based, as it is a server/service. - cygnusx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3It's not a recent change. Lotus Notes, for example, has _always_ shown mails sent by Gmail this way (Sent on behalf of ... by). I even filed a enhancement request about it then, no response from them though.
- joshfraz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@ ccanni1028
"It has always done this. Even sending to another gMail account will do this."
This is simply not true. Don't believe me? Try it. - mgreenwald, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm sorry that a free email service that offers 2.5GB of free space and many more features then any other free email service has a feature that doesn't quite to what you expected. I'm not a google head but man I was glad to sign up for gmail and get rid of hotmail. I am still at 2 Megabytes with hotmail and probably always will be. Good ridance hotmail. Cheers to competition! Jeers to stagnation!
- cavicster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1He didn't know that?
- MatthewDoucette, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is Joel's "Joel on Software Discussion Group". It is a discussion forum on Joel on Software, not an article written by Joel Spolsky.
- avktm, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by gmail.com
that is what yahoo says on the message - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Doesn't this sort of defeat the purpose?
I knew it was too good to be free. - gaza, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3This is old news, look at the year on that thread...2005...
- esoteric, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Everyone keeps complaining that "this is bad", "this is not good". Can anyone say "free service"? Google, doesn't technically owe anyone nor do they have to really listen, it is a free service, am I saying they won't listen, no, but since Google is following "industry standards" they won't change.
The "On behalf of" field is displayed depending on your client.
If everyone would actually place this field into the header like they are suppose to, then tracking spam would be easier and more effective at blocking it.
Stop complaining about a free service, its pathetic, its one thing if it is "broke" to complain, but it works great. - manthrax3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Would you jump in boiling oil if an RFC said so? This is a huge usability issue. Yahoo doesn't do this. Thunderbird doesn't do this. Hell, even outlook won't set headers this way.
Since 99% of people who use a thick client e-mail app use Outlook, this is a big problem and renders this feature unusable.
You people who quote RFCs that will cause problems for millions of people will never become managers in software. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2get portable thunderbird.. use your regular email.
setup tunnel to you computer at home, log in use your own email.
get another more public gmail account.
While this annoys a great many people, google is doing it as part of their "dont be evil" motto(think spammers)
I do think they should make his fact more obvious as it is more annoying to find out, out of the blue or on digg.
I do suggest that all that dont like this email google with a complaint and maybe they can find a solution that keeps most people happy. - mxcl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Hello sir. Google want people to use their free service. If they really want us all to use it, they need to make it good enough, otherwise we'll use something else. I have no problem with paying for something that is better than Gmail.
The "it's free so stfu" argument is absolutely ignorant of how capitalism actually works. - chuckeee, on 08/15/2009, -0/+1You can get around this problem by using an external SMTP server. This post here explains how:
http://www.smtp2go.com/blog/gmail-on-behalf-of-smt ... - ckasprzak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yeah I notieced this when I was trying to unsubscribe from a list.
- comomolo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1As for the abuse and spam issues, I quote from another conversation like this one:
"the spam concern is noted, but Gmail is hardly the only one in this situation. Heck, I can configure my own mail server to send mail as if it is coming from someone else. Again, since Google is only allowing these accounts to be created if you verify from a known email address, it seems a non-issue to then let you send as if you are using them."
Frankly, is that so hard to get? - manthrax3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It only happens when you send a message to outlook, and it sucks. I was trying to use gmail for work via a foward rule since Outlook sucks, and I was embarrassed to find out all my work related e-mails had this ridiculous "on behalf of" header.
- ayeroxor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I have no problem with this. Why should I? It prevents abuse, and there's no reason to be ashamed of having a gmail account. If you want a separate account for business, get one.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1it's sort of annoying.. I wish it was just sent as the 'reply to' address
- alernon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I just wanted to reiterate that this is the way it's *supposed* to work. It's part of the spec. I work for an Email Service Provider and this is exactly how we operate as well. If a customer really wants total branded sending (none of this on behalf of) they have to set up a third level domain such as bounce.mydomain.com and set it up as with a mail exchange record to point to us and then make sure our SPF record is in the TXT record of the entry in DNS. Then we configure our mail transfer agent to send their mail as coming from bounce.mydomain.com. Obviously Google is not going to go through all this trouble for a FREE hosted email service.
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