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Free math book published because they think textbook prices are too high...

totallyfreemath.com — "With the current price of a new algebra textbook approaching $110 and publishers bringing out a new edition every three to four years just to prevent students from selling their used books, we have decided to create a site where the textbooks are free." They only have one up right now but plan to add more, along with video and audio lectures.

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  • brianjameskirk, on 10/12/2007, -15/+212I totally support publishers screwing over students with new editions since concepts of Algebra have changed so rapidly in the past few decades. I buy a new book every 6 months just to keep up!
    • tommajor, on 10/12/2007, -8/+40But is it free as in freedom? They should make it GFDL.
    • diggmaddy, on 10/12/2007, -35/+4print.google.com ?
    • eclectro, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14Unfortunately because of the continued copyright extensions, no timely (aka 20th century) textbooks have been allowed to enter the public domain. So there is not a wealth of teaching material to help teachers teach their classes in a modern enviroment.
      Of course, people managed to learn algebra in the old west. But it would have been more difficult to teach without been able to photocopy handouts for homework, quizzes, and tests which I suppose all modern textbooks provide.
    • ShrimpCrackers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+35These guys are Heroes! I wish there was something for College math textbooks though. I've seen some come out with a new edition every year and they cost hundreds.
    • addicted44, on 10/12/2007, -29/+8I think GFDL is the worst idea for textbooks. Linux is confusing enough for most people because of the ridiculously large number of variations, but now you want to include that in textbooks also?

      Besides, code is a different matter altogether. I can use different variations, and depending on how they perform, decide which one suits me the best. But fr basic knowledge, like mathematics, or science, how does someone who is trying to learn that basic science, decide whether what the original author was saying is right, or some variation of that is right?

      Books that do benefit from changes by multiple people, are better served being written from ground up in wiki form. Wikibooks is a good project for such endeavours.
    • CharlesDarwin, on 10/12/2007, -22/+1I can digg it!
    • crazyjeff0, on 10/12/2007, -14/+11Only cool kids do math!
    • mDot, on 10/12/2007, -3/+36@addicted44: Are you ***** retarded?

      Math = Math.
      There is no justification for repackaging millennium old concepts and equations and selling that package for an amount greater then last years. Students have been getting the short end of this stick for years and its about time something was done about it.
    • Drealoth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18My physics textbook in first year was the worst. Between editions, all that they did was switch the questions around - even the questions with mistakes in them.
    • benthere, on 10/12/2007, -14/+2"I totally support publishers screwing over students with new editions"

      Huh? That doesn't mean what you think it means. And yet it has 129 diggs...
    • Sundyr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5It's amazing how many people you find that are Sarcasm Impaired....
  • pauledgarm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+87I am a teacher and this looks like a good book to me. I think students can learn using this as a textbook
    • Brak710101, on 10/12/2007, -60/+5I don't know about that.

      How much do you really LEARN from a textbook? Your just like every other person in the class, and no creativity or critical thinking is happening.

      In my opinion, textbooks need to be done away with, yes it tells and shows you what to do, but its lacking the qualitys to be considered interesting. If its not interesting to someone, odds are they will forget about it after the test. What has been learned then?
    • tuartboy, on 10/12/2007, -13/+19Insert smartass remark about the difference between "your" and "you're" and how comical the above comment now seems.
    • Deschain, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Brak: You're assuming that the teachers would be able to teach at all without a text book. No offense to the OP, but a good deal of the education majors I know, simply could not do it. I'd rather have the textbooks around without the creativity than no learning at all. It's a sad world.
    • theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8I guess you never saw the episode of "The Simpsons" where all the Teacher Edition textbooks got stolen. It was hilarious. Ms. Krabappel was about to *****!
    • yellowperil, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14"In my opinion, textbooks need to be done away with, yes [with. Yes] it tells and shows you what to do, but its lacking the qualitys[qualities] to be considered interesting"

      What can you learn from a text book? Proper grammar and spelling for one.
    • carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8or how about any complex subject that has way too much information to memorize. say for instance medicine, law, programming, mechanical engineering?
    • minorproblem, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2For all my math subjects at uni the lecturers recommended some textbooks but had also written there own resources for the subject that in my opinions where better than the textbooks and could be picked up from the unishop for about $10 (Australian) and they where different to the lecture notes presented and full of lots of examples. Some of my physics lecturers did the same thing.
    • TheDarkTipper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Well, hopefully the people who created it will get recognition, and hopefully the colleges will approve of the book.
    • infobeat234, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0 know I was late to this party, but I have a lengthy post on Education Bazaar comparing and contrasting Open Content textbooks and courses, and one that looks at the textbook adoption process. Lots of links to textbooks are listed.

      There are differences between textbook resources that are "free", and those that are "open".
      http://qqbq.info/sitemap.htm
  • pbh101, on 10/12/2007, -0/+24I tutor High School math myself and having a quasi-open-source book like this really helps with lesson plans and problem sets. I just grab clips with OneNote (very good software from MS, btw) and export into PDF with CuteWriter.
    • jmnormand, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2i can see resources like these as well as the free courses being offered online by many colleges, including harvard and mit, beeing a real boon for public high schools. if the administration is capable enough to take advantage of them they could real offer alot with almost no additional costs to the school.
  • nTensify, on 10/12/2007, -0/+131There are a lot of free textbooks out there, some of them are better than others, but a lot are quickly becoming very good.

    Plain and simple, everyone should have access to education, money shouldn't dictate how educated someone can become.

    Some other free books:
    http://www.physicsforfree.com/ (three physics books from beginning physics to general relativity).
    http://www.lightandmatter.com/area1.html (six physics books, variety of topics)
    http://www.motionmountain.net/ (notably one of the best free physics books ever "published").
    http://www.math.wisc.edu/~keisler/calc.html (intro to calc book under Creative Commons)
    http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/ (a really cool free circuit design book I ran across a few years ago when I was leaving college).
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ (obligatory gutenburg link, aggrigator of books out of copyright or otherwise set free).

    (there are plenty more, but to spare you the boredom of a huge list here... go to google and search for digital library books, you'll have a few million hits to look through ;) )
  • scarz, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8Why not write the book via Wiki. So much of it crosses over from chapter to chapter. I would love to be able to click on a character and see it's definition again.
    • MikeKnoop, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16I'm a firm beleiver and user of Wikipedia and other wiki's... but you can just imagine the bad press it would get?

      Open source works for software, why can't it work for knowledge?

      -Mike
    • nTensify, on 10/12/2007, -0/+29Books by Wiki? Brilliant.

      http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks_portal (yeah, it's been thought of and implemented).
    • Matadon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Aren't there a whole bunch of Wiki textbooks?

      My big problem with most Wiki software is that there isn't a good way to get formatted PDFs out of the bastard thing! Computers are fine and good, but it's a hell of a lot easier for a teacher (or often a student) to drag a few sheets of dead tree around with them.
    • gortiswatching, on 10/12/2007, -8/+6While I enjoy Wikipedia, it is not a proper academic source. I often come across incorrect information and the linking of weak concepts without any citations. Wikipedia is great, open source is great. Perhaps there needs to be a higher education sponsored and backed site with contributions from professors. The textbook industry will be looking toward on-line books for a fee eventually. To counter such a measure, the open source community needs to either clean up wiki a little or create a scholarly project with some sort of accreditation.
    • moozilla, on 10/12/2007, -7/+0You mean something like http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Main_Page ?
    • Fidodo, on 10/12/2007, -9/+4Mathbook wiki? Brilliant!
      The pythagorean theorum is BUTTSECKS!
    • christianw, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2@fidodo

      you actually made me lawl out loud =p
  • echimu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8http://www.maththinking.com/boat/mathIndex.html - Tons of links to maths stuff on net :)

    Also links to Free Computer Books, Tutorials & Lecture Notes http://www.maththinking.com/boat/mathIndex.html
  • thecheat1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I'm looking for the age where everyone in class (colleges especially) comes in the first day with their laptop and plugs in to the network and dl's all the syllabus' and textbooks right there. A completely digital learning experience, that's what I long for :-)
    • CharlesDarwin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Why show up to class when you can download the lectures as podcasts and take the tests from the comfort of your own home? ;)
    • neko, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Yeah but what about the poor kids who can't afford a Intel viiv Vista-Ready laptop? You'd need some sort of $100 laptop available...
    • Floydian23, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@neko

      In Mechanical Engineering at a major university, $500 in books a semester is not uncommon. That's 1000 or more a year, or about 1300 a year if you include summer school. Still think a digital experience would be tougher for those less fortunate. I mean, one could spend 1300 and get a very decent dell or mac laptop, at least decent enough to browse with wifi, download text and pdfs, show 3d charts and the like. You'd only have to do that the first year and then your next 3-4 years would be textbook free saving you at least 3000 bucks for the rest of school. That's savings I think we could all agree on! One main problem is the professors that make you buy their own book, so they can make money on all of their students. I even had a government prof who didn't tell the bookstore to rebuy her books, only to sell identical ones the next semester. That is a ***** system for people who are unfortunate and need that money!
  • morrislevy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+24BOUT TIME! Now lets see this applied for COLLEGE LEVEL TEXTS. :(
    I got like no money for textbooks. :O
    • Matadon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5It's not just money; I really hate that I've got to drag around a textbook (or two) for every damn class! I'd much rather just have five or six sheets of paper for the current chapter for each class, and tote that around while I'm on campus, but I'm not about to cut the spines out of my texts.
  • terminalpariah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17Textbook publishers freaked out when the Xerox was invented. They predicted that they'd all be out of business in a few years.
    Now anyone can walk down to Staples (or even their school copy shop) and make a high-quality copy of a textbook for a few dollars. Still, the textbook companies are more profitable than ever. And it turns out that what's threatening them is a free alternative to their useless books.
    I think the RIAA and MPAA could learn something from this.
  • garyinthehouse, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10The reason why text book companies routinely make new editions is because they dont make any profit on used books. Thats why there is a new edition of calculus every 2-3 years even though the fundamentals of calculus was set in stone years and years ago.
  • matatan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I highly doubt educational institutes will start using these economical options. Education, specifically higher education, is a business first. Bookstores, are not the main source of income, but they do make a nice profit.
    • TheIronBadger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0In many universities the bookstore and the university are seperate entities. As a result the professors should not be concerned about the price of his course textbook, only the quality. The price problem is because the professor doesn't care how much it costs, he's not paying for it.
    • dumdummuoi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0but it's not as if most students don't buy their books online for better prices, which is the case at my college. what becomes of the bookstore when everybody does that?
  • smax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1seriously this is a great idea... I was trying to find some online chemistry text books a year ago and found nothing. Hopefully we will be seeing more of this kind of stuff in the future.
    • nTensify, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The Organic Chem Wikibook is pretty good (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Organic_Chemistry ), as for general chemistry, use one of the electronic/digital library indicies, and you'll find hundreds, if not thousands of them, in various stages of completeness.

      The hard sciences are the easiest places to find good books on, simply because they're less variant. Good luck finding a good History book, for example.
  • eclectro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I think the question needs to be asked why textbooks are not priced the same as Dover edition books. Dover has managed to put many interesting textbooks in hardcopy inexpensively.

    It all most makes you wonder where the "free market forces" are for textbooks that makes all other books affordable.
  • Stwo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Glad to hear that someone isn't effected by corporate greed and has decided to do something positive for the future of this country possible the world
    • vprice509, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"...effected by corporate greed"

      My textbook says this line should read, "Affected by corporate greed".
    • Stwo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1that thought crossed my mind when I wrote it but the point remains the same :)
      Thanks for the correction
  • nosferatu, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3This needs all the support it can get... Digg this up people- Get it on Diggnation.
  • sajuuk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I work in a college bookstore (in fact, im at work right now) and i agree, the prices are way to high. The problem with the free textbook concept is getting teachers to use them, since i think some teachers have agreements with textbook companies that they use their books and get free stuff. Its all a big conspiracy xD
  • TheIronBadger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13"With the current price of a new algebra textbook approaching $110"

    Textbooks approaching 110$? That's not much at all! 150$ is the average price of an science or engineering textbook. I had one where the publishers thought "Students don't want to carry around a heavy textbook" so they provided a CD with the supplementary chapters we needed. Unfortunatly they gave us a demo CD with the book by accident so we had to wait several weeks to change it for the real one. This was the most idiotic way of doing it. On top of the fact that it was awkward working with the chapters they provided us on CD they took a book that had very few errors in it and reprinted the same thing with tons of errors in formulas. It's ridiculous that when we pay 150$ they can't even get the errors fixed (since they just use the same text and slap a new cover on it every couple years). The most they usually change is changing the question numbers so that we have to buy a new book or we won't have the right question numbers when we do an assignment. It's highway robbery and it's really about time that the government steps in and puts a stop to this, it's dragging down the education system and taking advantage of people who are generally in debt.
    • danlovejoy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Oh yes, the government should step in. They never screw anything up.
    • heavyd14, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Well, its already broken, so either they will fix it or they will break it so far that we just wont use them any more.
    • TheIronBadger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2How bad can they possibly screw it up? I firmly belive that text book writers and publisher should be held accountable for errors in the text. Not typos in written text, unless it alters the text so that another meaning is accidentally inferred. I think that they should be fined for each error in formula. That would improve the education system very quickly. All they really need to do is put in a few laws about how much of the book has to be rewritten to qualify as a new edition. I think that is something that we should be able to police. Also the quality of the text.
      For example:
      In order for a textbook to qualify as a new edition 20% of the written text must be altered completly or 10% when 1 to 3 additional chapters are added. The previous text may be unchanged if more than 3 chapters are added. Problem set questions do not qualify as written text and changes will not qualify as a portion of rewritten text.
      • Mothrog, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0"I firmly belive that text book writers and publisher should be held accountable for errors in the text."

        Do you realize how hard it is to catch every error in a book, particularly a book about anything technical? Getting the government involved isn't the answer.
  • warofwrath, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"We would like to be able to post the video lectures, but the high resolution Betacam masters will not even stream properly on a broadband connection."

    Hmm, I guess someone has never heard of bittorrent. You'd think that math geniuses would keep up with technology better.
  • RWVolkl158, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Especially interesting to me considering that my last two math professors have both mentioned the fact that they would like to write themselves, or at least see free/low cost math books be produced.
    • smokypotion, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Just because a professor writes the book himself still doesn't mean the book is inexpensive when it comes out. Since the professor has no means to publish the book, the book publisher jacks the price way up when it sells to students. By way up I mean $100-150 new, even when the professor doesn't even get a royalty off this because of ethics rules at the university.

      I had a class where the professor got around this by "publishing" the book through the university bookstore, that is, the book was little more than regular printer paper bound together with cheap plastic binding. The book/lab book combo was about $30, which was less painful than $100-150, but still a significant markup considering we couldn't resell the book.
  • zeth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Not exactly math, but there is a nice physics textbook available for free at http://www.motionmountain.net/
  • Histtin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2My hope for the future would be a montly-pay site/service that lets you browse multiple textbooks/libraries. Maybe $20 - $25 a month and you can look at and print out your college textbooks?
    • heavyd14, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1They have one, its called Knovel: http://www.knovel.com/

      I don't know about prices as it is inlcuded with my tuition, and is limited to science and engineering topics.
  • danlovejoy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Publishers don't make any money on used textbooks, zero. But they still have to support them with very expensive supplementals, demo copies, desk copies, and the like.

    Publishers (and authors, for that matter)only make money the first semester of a new adoption. So they have to stretch the profits from that semester for the next 5 semesters until a new edition appears.

    To add insult to injury, many professors turn around and sell their free demonstration and/or desk copies to used book buyers who visit them once a semester. Sometimes, profs even order demo copies JUST so they can sell them to the book buyer. That has a direct effect on book prices.

    So, it's not the publishers alone who make books cost so much - it's dishonest profs and book buyers as well.

    The publishers will have to figure out a model to make money and defeat the used market without raising prices beyond what students can pay. Their current model of continuing to raise prices so they can hold on for 5 more semesters isn't working. I'm afraid the actual solution might involve some sort of DRM where you can "rent" a book (or its analog) for a semester. I don't like this idea, but surely it's better than paying $100 - $200 for a book.
    • budsstud26, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3They're already selling (renting) digital copies that expire, but they're usually priced at about 75% of the cost of the print version.

      The textbook industry in general is one of the most corrupt out there. They've got a stranglehold on (poor) students. For example, many campus bookstores will not release the book lists until the day classes start in order to prevent students from buying copies online. Book buybacks on campus are an absolute joke, with those books being sold at an average markup of over 35%.

      The problems in this industry are a result of the actions of each level, from the publishers, wholesalers, buyers, campus bookstores, etc
    • yankeeboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Actually, the typical revision cycle is 3 years, not 5. Plus, the cost of giving away free "desk copies" is already built into the book price. In fact, the book prices are typical determined by estimates of how many copies will sell, balanced against known costs. Thus, publishers take a bath on books that undersell and make a killing on books that oversell.

      (I worked for some 20 years for college textbook publishers. If I knew in my college years what I know now...)
  • MasterDwarf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Buying a book to learn is crazy nowadays. A company should just launch a site that offers it as a service. Those that don't have net access can have the school purchase the book for them.

    You know why publishers charge an arm and a leg, because they can. Put the power back into the school systems and the tax payers and things will correct themselves.
  • brian1001001, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I agree with the GFDL comment. What do you say? Who wants to register wikitextbooks.org?

  • gentryfunk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3As a writer of textbooks, what many are leaving out of this discussion is the amount of new research on teaching and learning that goes into many textbooks. Publishers, like Houghton Mifflin, my publisher, spend millions of dollars to create texts and materials that help students learn. I notice that their research has made a significant impact on test scores and comprehension in districts all over the country.

    The fact is that many textbooks cost money because of the money put into the research and writing.
    • budsstud26, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3And yet, America still lags behind much of the developed world in education.

      I'm sorry, but I'm going to need to see some hard numbers showing the percentage of revenue that gets plowed into research. I'd also love to see some statistics showing that test scores and "comprehension" (whatever that means) has improved over the last 50-100 years and something that convincingly ties that increase to the "research" that HM and other big publishers are conducting.

      Please.
    • quanta88, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@gentryfunk

      That may be so, but we've also seen situations where, say, Calculus 7th Edition textbooks where the only changes from 6th Edition are a shiny new cover and Chapters 4 and 2 are switched.

      There is a growing frustration among students and schools in that they must buy a new edition plus the accompanying teacher guides plus student workbooks far too frequently due to often arbitrary changes seemingly designed to force repurchase.

      At the same time, publishers seem unwilling to embrace online or electronic versions which would facilitate faster delivery of changes, customizable curriculae and if they do, there are often DRM'ed or crippled in such a way they are useless unless you go and buy the book in processed tree carcass form.
    • TheIronBadger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3That also does not explain the fact that the publishers will release new "editions" of the book every few years. They take the same book and put a new cover on it. In one book between the 8th and 9th edition they switched the question numbers so that the professors assignments correspond to the new one only and introduced errors is the text everywhere. Math formulas in the front of the textbook suddenly were wrong as well as many in the text of the book itself. My professor assured us that the previous edition had been "perfect" and they had just screwed it up. This is a different book from the one I referred to in a comment above.

      The biggest question I have is should the publishers be held accountable for these errors? My degree is in engineering. Do you want your cars, bridges and buildings built based on incorrect formulas? Who should be responsible?

      The other question is, how much research and writing goes into changing the cover of the textbook? If you don't believe that is what they do just go to your local engineering faculty, find their textbooks and compare them with old editions that are in the library. The text will only be rewritten after 3 or 4 edition changes (new pretty picture). How can you claim it cost money to do so?

      You can claim that this raises test scores, but I really think this is due to better professors. I have had some terrible, terrible professors but I have also had some great ones. I have noticed that most new professors (less than about 15 years teaching is what I will call new for this) have taken a great interest in their students. When they start teaching a class they ask for feedback and try to improve their teaching. With the introduction of audio visual and multimedia to the classroom many professors now use PowerPoint to teach. It has the advantage of being clear and legible and the added bonus that the professor can post it on a website afterwards. Students now have access to the Internet as well, we can now find additional questions and notes from other schools as well. If we need more practice just grab the assignment that another school assigns and grab the solutions after it is due.

      Any improvement in marks can be attributed to those that deserve it, our professors. forget the publishers. The only thing I have found from them is confusion.
    • SeafoodGumbo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4
      You're dissembling because you are a part of this scam. How much "new research on teaching and learning" went into my Calculus textbook that is now on its fifth edition. Has the subject changed in 100 years? What's all this nebulous "research on teaching and learning" anyway? Sounds like a fuzzy, wordy way rationalizing the bilking of a captive, poor audience (students) to me.

      You say that your publisher "spend(s) millions of dollars to create texts and materials that help students learn." How about you just create a good textbook, and quit spending millions (if ya'll really are, and I doubt it) on that bogus cd. Do you need new lesson plans every few years for subjects that have barely changed in generations?

      I also doubt test scores rising has anything to do with the amount of money you claim publishers are spending on all of this so-called research.

      As for "The fact is that many textbooks cost money because of the money put into the research and writing," the point is HOW MUCH the textbooks should cost. I'd imagine there's a lot of research that goes into the yearly almanac, a book of record reviews, or a cookbook, but those don't cost $120.

      You are a part of the problem, and your "explanations" strike me as only so much manure from someone in the belly of the beast.
  • tyrione, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2As an educated mechanical engineer and computer scientist if you're going to provide a "free book" on any of these subject matters, like lightandmatter, at least provide the book in PDF that is fully indexed, with a TOC and cross-referenced, but from the actual TeX/LaTeX or Frame/Quark/InDesign whatever typeset works so that you don't end up scanning a book. If you're going to scan the book at least provide the DJVU copy of it to reduce the file size.
    • vprice509, on 10/12/2007, -10/+2Speak English, *****.
    • ProfessorRiffs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@tyrione:

      Like any of that ***** even *remotely* matters. This is what Americans need, FREE EDUCATION. This stuff is a godsend. More and more Americans are less and less educated every day because of rising tuition costs, book costs, etc. Getting hung up on the particulars rather than hailing a company for being brave enough to stand up and do the right thing is about as useful as having an ***** on your elbow.
  • Burritovision, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0my analysis of this story is available at WWW.EducationFreedom.blogspot.com . Enjoy!

    Thank you for education.
  • denjin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Educational book prices are a total scam.

    Find an American college text book, and get the price on Amazon.com. Then, go to www.amazon.co.uk and look for the book. The price will be LESS, even when you convert back from pounds into dollars. It's a total load of crap.
  • 5blocksfree, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I'd think it would be awesome to see the demise of this racket (textbook publishing). Next up, of course, will be dealing with schools that insist on using e-texts. They're even more insidious, because they're not sold, but licensed, and the license typically expires after a specific duration. Why students put up with this crap, Ill never know.
  • yahoofrom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3textbook prices are absolute nonsense.
  • Highborn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Give away free text books on a website, attract millions of unique visitors, sell advertising, get rich. That is a great idea, they still make their cash and students get free books.
  • saxophonefreak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0that's awesome! i'm gonna check that website every now and then to see if they add other algebra books, cuz i'd rather buy myself something nice instead of math books. :)
  • brokengun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://www.nongnu.org/fhsst/

    look on the left hand side, four free text books and a better math book too...
  • Jayeugene, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Anyone have all of the books from that site in a zip file? or is that against the site's policy?
  • Twango, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Considering how many people buy textbooks, and how ridiculous the prices are (some of these editions have been around a LONG time) ... yeah ... it's time for "open source textbook". Cool.
  • TheRealPod, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4It's BS that new editions of math books are brought out every few years (same is true for most other textbooks as well...). Math hasn't changed! Sure we have computers and crap, but everything in algebra should be done by hand anyway.
    I'm hoping that online texts really become popular, perhaps with a wiki style to them. Add that to MIT's online lectures and you don't need to spend a dime to get a full college educations (-minus keggers)
    • theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2bury
    • djjoemex, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yes you are right
      "Math hasn't changed! Sure we have computers and crap, but everything in algebra should be done by hand anyway. "
      Maybe you could use some kind of power point presentations to introduce concepts, techniques but I don't think the students should be studying on their computers, they should print this book and do execices with pencil and eraser, that's how I learned and I have a grade in Computer Science.
  • IKilled007, on 10/12/2007, -9/+2I may not be a mathematician, but I am an economist, and I have two things to say:

    1. You get what you pay for.
    2. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
    • bsummersett, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I may not be an economist, but I can assure you the high prices for textbooks are certainly not because of their quality of content.
    • Grayfox777, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"1. You get what you pay for."
      Sorry.... but that just isn't always true.

      "2. There is no such thing as a free lunch."
      Maybe there isn't, but there should be!
  • Subcranium, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Time for a free English textbook, I guess. The "they" in the headline came out of left field. Who is this "they?" Submitter has decided to not say.

    I'm assuming it's aliens or the Freemasons.
  • chownrus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3A 300 level Advanced Calculus text (creative commons)

    http://www.mth.pdx.edu/%7Eerdman/PTAC/PTAClicensepage.html

    he even includes the TeX file.
    • umdigger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That was for a 300 level math class. Wow, my calc 215 class had way more information than that. Granted I just looked at the index

      Great idea non the less. Open source education all the way..
  • Plaster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The site seems to be crawling now after hitting Digg.

    My wife is a middle school math teacher and is very interested in this text so I'm trying to grab the whole thing for her. They really need to properly format the whole text into a single .pdf and offer it up for those with better than dial up access. Does the copyright prohibit someone from reformatting it and putting it on a mirror? I may try to fix a copy for her but I have little skill at working with .pdf docs (from the publishing side).
  • changyang1230, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://www.cut-the-knot.org/index.shtml
  • whatsername990, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1im so glad these guys came up with this...thanks for posting it. hopefully textbook companies will get the message that kids spend waaaay to much money on books they will probably only use for a year or two.
  • coldthing, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1now if only something could be done about my $200 cog sci books
    • Grayfox777, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I feel sorry for you. That's way too much for a book! If only me feeling sorry for you actually changed something. =/
  • bayonetblaha, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Textbooks are way too expensive. I can't believe I didn't think of this before I bought books!
  • JimXugle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Yay. Algebra. Just what I like to do on my weekends.
    [/sarcasm]

    The Question is... how well does it burn?
  • patc6, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3coldthing try a $250.00 Biology book. The prices for books are insane. Recently I picked up a book on C-Sharp and spent $110.00. The truly sad thing is most books, including none text books, are poorly written too.
    What ever happened to free knowledge? This only furthers my suspicions that the rich want to send the people of this planet back to the time of lords and peasants.

  • Grayfox777, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Seems like big corporations almost always try to find some way to screw people over. I hope this free math book idea catches on rapidly. No one should have to pay 100 for a book unless it has a silver front and back!
  • mysticzeppelin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Check out http://linear.ups.edu/opentexts.html, "The linear algebra textbook with freedom", for a great example how textbooks should be. I'm sick of paying tons of money for a textbook that might, if I am lucky, return 20% of its value when I sell it back to the bookstore (if a new edition hasn't come out in the meantime).
  • xorian, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Aw, the website is down for me. But it all sounds really cool, especially for people who wish to learn stuff; but simply don't have the money to buy the books. I digg it!
  • Tazzin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I am unable to see the site, it is down right now, but I this this is an awesome idea! I am sure most of us here agree that textbooks are overpriced. The whole notion of buying textbooks and then selling them back never really caught on with me. The campus bookstores are making a killing on their respective buyback programs. If they are moving to a newer/updated version of the textbook you are selling back, good luck getting any decent amount of money for it! I have been out of school for awhile and wonder if they do buy back the book at a certain price... do they also give you back part of the tax you paid when you bought it? Do they then charge tax to the next person to buy the book?
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