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118 Comments
- atariby, on 10/12/2007, -15/+62Firefox has used a lot of ideas from Internet Explorer, Its still better than IE will ever be as well!!
- phpirate, on 10/12/2007, -7/+47I like that "Peter de Haas" guy. On his blog he says "Just keeping score".
Hey peter, I'm no fanboy, but I can keep score too!
FF: http://secunia.com/product/11/
IE: http://secunia.com/product/4227/
Firefox: 2 unpatched.
Internet Explorer: 19 unpatched. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+46what are you talking about? i don't think i've ever gotten a javascript error in firefox, ever ever, and i've been using since 0.7 . besides, who cares if it takes something from IE? IE just took stuff from navigator back in the day anyway
- Guspaz, on 10/12/2007, -18/+53This idea wasn't taken from IE at all, the whole article is bunk.
Firefox DISABLED something they already had; the last-ditch garbage collection. They just decided that turning it off was better than leaving it on.
How is disabling something using ideas from IE? They just decided that the cure was worse than the symptoms.
I'm sick of all these anti-firefox articles on Digg. It seems like Firefox has become the new favourite target of IE and Opera fanboys. Can we please leave the browser fanboyism (for ANY browser) out of Digg? - DigitalGeek, on 10/12/2007, -5/+31LMAO!!!
"you've probably seen Firefox go down in flames with Javascript errors."
Wow I've never, and I mean NEVER, had my firefox have Javascript errors. OK Maybe 1 or 2 every 6 months but thats about it. If your firefox is going down in "flames" with errors.... Then you're doin sumthing wrong.
And I am on Windows. - Xiata, on 10/12/2007, -6/+26@Guspaz
You know, there are plenty of articles against IE and Opera, Firefox has to take a hit everyonce in a while as well. So they disabled something that has been bugging out on a lot of users' machines. It happens, and everyone else who plot against firefox are just adding chalk to their boards. Their turn will come and you can chalk up against them as well.
Firefox can defend itself with its quality, it doesn't need your fanboyism. - Osjpr, on 10/12/2007, -5/+21IE copied a -much- greater segment in tabbed browsing which is part of the graphical user interface. I still remember when Bill Gates said there was no practical need for tabbed browsing.
- pintong, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14Seriously! I've been using FF since version 0.6 and I've never had this happen to me, either. I reguarly surf with close to 50 tabs open across several windows. I can't say I've heard of that happening, either.
- Metal_Guru, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Never remember seeing a javascript error in firefox, I've had it since 1.04... on XP. And I too am sick of these "guess what, IE is actually better than Firefox".... several posts later, "Aw, wait, I'll get back to you, looks like I've found something cool."... "Alright, alright, I was wrong... Firefox Rocks!"
... "Wait a moment..."
No need to clutter Digg with this as everyone already knows the answer here. - kaniz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9a. Never had any errors like they describe, and I am a HEAVY tabs user. I middle-click just about every link I click on into a background tab, and never had an error like that.
b. Who carres if they 'uses ideas' from IE. Just about everything uses ideas from everywhere else, and if its an idea that works - who cares who came up with it? - runningnick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8This is why Digg needs to fix its ridiculous comments system.
Why am I whisked down to the bottom of the page, completely out of the context of the comment that I'm replying to?
Why is the same box used for posting a new thread and replying to a comment? Why is a line of 10pt text the only indication that its behaving differently? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -14/+21Guspaz Said:
> I'm sick of all these anti-firefox articles on Digg. It seems like Firefox has
> become the new favourite target of IE and Opera fanboys. Can we please
> leave the browser fanboyism (for ANY browser) out of Digg?
Hello, welcome to The Internet. The Internet was created by Al Gore just for these senseless flamewars. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6ROFL @ CRASSPUNXTEXHTV ... Firefox can't even keep themselves compatible with their extensions, I don't think Microsoft needs to join in on that joke.
- runningnick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5>> I've never had that problem. Is it because I have 1gig of memory?
No. If you read the article, the problem could occur regardless of how much memory you have. That the problem does not exist because you've never encountered it is a specious claim.
"I've never been to Hawaii. Therefore, Hawaii does not exist." - Xiol, on 10/12/2007, -7/+12Never seen JS errors like the ones described.
Everyone steals from everyone else, this isn't news. - therage96, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I encountered this issue all of the time on myspace.com with all of the bloated javascripts people load on their page combined with myspace's horrible programming.
- jcushman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Firefox 1.5.0.1 definitely can crash with javascript problems -- I've been hacking on a pretty large client-side app with Greasemonkey, and it crashes every five or ten times I refresh, on Mac 10.4.6 with 768 MB of ram. It looks exactly like what they describe here -- memory adding up and garbage collection dropping the ball. I'm sure it's not much of a problem for most users, but I'm definitely glad the devs are working on it.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Hate to be the one to burst your little open source fantasy, but the main Firefox developers have salaried positions. That's what Mozilla spend their Google millions on.
The majority of extensions hurt Firefox too - or did you not notice they're often cited as why Firefox crashes/chews so much memory/etc etc?
Only the extensions that have matured rapidly, or been written by someone who actually knows what they're doing (sorry, that rules out most of them) are helping. - The_Decryptor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"Tabbed browsing stolen? Check"
Tabbed browsing was in a browser called InternetWorks in 1994, then the IE shell NetCaptor got them in 1997, and then Opera got them in 2000 (with version 4), Mozilla got them in 2001 (through a extension then it was added to 0.9.5). - The_Decryptor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"I'm just saying that it has improved enough for a whole lotta web developers to switch back."
IE7 fixes a whole lot of bugs, and has CSS fixes (now fully CSS1 compliant), but it still doesn't support a lot of CSS2 features, and it doesn't look like DOM support and such has been upgraded.
So, it's easier than IE7 to develop for, but not as "easy" as Opera, Firefox, Safari, etc. - cyclotron, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7No - not really. No javascript errors... maybe jscript errors, but thats Microsofts fault for not following Javascript standards.
I hardly have any Javascript errors. Of course I use Mac Firefox... - theuber1337, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Not to mention he used a dollar sign to represent Microsoft's 's'. That immediatly disqualifies anything he has said.
Sorry, but it's true. - jasqwerty, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8IE stole what exactly? Anything you see in Firefox was STOLEN FROM AND CREATED by Opera at least half a decade before Firebird was even chalked in as a name.
- theschitzobob, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I've never had the problem described in the article, but I have run across another annoyance caused by Javascript (and Flash)...
With the proliferation of Javascript- and Flash-based navigation on websites these days, I find that more and more often when I try to middle click a link into a tab (I use tabs heavily and middle click most things) it turns out it's one of those two things and therefore doesn't even open the new page, let alone in a tab. - tehciv, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Yeah, and every anti IE story is created by the Mozilla corperation, right?
- The_Decryptor, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"What did IE steal from Mozilla? An RSS icon? Get over it already."
Ah, an uninformed person.
The IE team spoke to the mozilla guys, and decided it would be better for end users to have the same icon across browsers, that's why IE7 has the Firefox feed icon. - evilspoons, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Which doesn't really have anything to do with the problem...
- blogsceptic, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Firefox already stole most of its major ideas from Opera
Tabbed browsing stolen? Check
Popup blocker stolen? Check
Rapid back/forward stolen? Check
MDI and SDI both available, with tabs? No, just a clunky SDI mode
Small, fast, elegant well-designed program? They can try, but they're heading in the opposite direction... - reddevil3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Umm why not use the NoScript extension for Firefox? It allows you to choose which sites to run javascripts from, thus enhancing security.
- twisterX, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7WOW GREAT NEWS. NOT
So what if it took an idea from IE. IE will never ever be what firefox is. - MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8Weird. I've never had javascript do that to FF.
- Tommy2k4, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Who cares if a browser uses ideas already implemented in another browser!? And for the record I'm an Opera user.
- shank2001, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1But Firefox will never ever be as good as Avant Browser. Much better tabbing, it saves all your open tabs for next time you open the browser, and many more great features. And since it is based on IE, there are less browser errors and compatibility issues on certain pages.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2phpirate,
You mixed up the links.
Anyway, those numbers don't make sense unless the unpatched vulnerabilities are weighted by severity.
Only one of Firefox's few vulnerabilities were ever rated Extreme Critical: Command Line URL Shell Command Injection..
Internet Explorer has a world of Extreme critical vulnerabilities to explore! Where do you want to get hosed today? - dbpigeon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Same here, never seen these errors. I won't use a theme that can't support 30-50 or so tabs open at one time.
- Dan100, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I switched to Opera (back when Opera 8 still had ads) mainly because Firefox, with lots of tabs open, would regularly fall over after a couple of days. Opera is much more solid (and a lot more responsive, try it and see).
Obviously it's great for FF users if it has caught up in terms of stability, but they took their time...
If you wanna know more on why I switched: http://dan100.blogspot.com/2005/08/goodbye-firefox-hello-opera.html - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Something about a trash compactor? Not sure.
- RichPowers, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4I can understand debating about OS's, but why do people care about web browsers? They're free and people can easily pick which one they want, so why the constant HURR MY BROWSER IS TEH BETTER pissing contest?
- dbpigeon, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7I totally agree, why settle for a slow browser when you could have your whole computer slow because of all the crap you'll get using IE? Course if you're using Opera, Camino, or some other good browser you won't have a problem.
- Izzie, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4@phpirate:
seems you forgot one thing in your comparison from secunia:
Opera: 0 unpatched out of 13. http://secunia.com/product/4932/
Firefox: 2 unpatched out of 28. both are from 2004 http://secunia.com/product/11/
Internet Explorer: 19 unpatched out of 99: http://secunia.com/product/4227/
and you can also check this browser speed comparison:
http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Plenty of people have complained about gmail crashing Firefox ... this sounds like a plausable cause for it.
- jasqwerty, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2LOL, standards compliance.
I always get a laugh out of that. 90+% of users set the standard. You're little group can jabber all it wants, but it goes along with the reason Betamax doesn't exist anymore, and it isn't because it was an overall worse technical implementation.
Plus, even Firefox doesn't meet the requirements set out by this little group as to what website can do, so??? - PhantomTrogdor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Recently, my Firefox deleted all my bookmarks and toolbar settings. And now, it's not allowing me to change them...It just resets everything as soon as I restart Firefox. If the new Firefox fixes these poblems, I'll take it!
- Splitz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@NineTailedFox. My point was that Email Battles is obviously a ff-friendly shop. 1. Check the author's response to a comment on this Javascript article at EB. 2. In another article, EB says 58% of its traffic is ff users: http://www.emailbattles.com/archive/battles/browsers_aadcegfgac_db/. 3. The review warning can be resolved by following the links to Mozilla in the article.
- jasqwerty, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Like what blind fanboy? Oh right, nothing, you're just another idiot. :-)
- lalindsey, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7read the article. it says firefox stole something from IE!
- uownedge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1A few mentioned it above: Regardless of weather or not the idea was infact borrowed, this sort of thing is great. It's why we have products as good as Firefox, Mac OS (sorry windows fanboys), etc. Company A does something, Company B does the same thing only better, Company A retorts, and so on. If this keeps up, maybe some day computers won't be as crappy as they are today. ;)
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I meant to reply to portfolioso but I failed to click the right button. Please find it in your heart to forgive me
- infnit, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2First of all,I don't appreciate you calling me stupid. If you'd read my reply to your previous comment you'd see that I didn't mean they would be CSS saints. And you wouldn't be using IE7 now anyway because it is only in beta so it shouldn't be used as a general browser.
- sappyvcv, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Are you sure you've never had javascript errors? You do realize to notice errors you have to go to tools > javascript console, right?
I guarantee you there are a lot of sites out there with javascript errors. -
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