What is Digg?102 Comments
- chris9902, on 10/10/2007, -1/+67the only problem with this is most ISPs give you much faster downloads than upload. My connection for example is 16x faster down than it is up.
- manfrin, on 10/10/2007, -2/+49This sounds like a gui-based tracker that throttles based on ratio.
Throttling based on ratios is never a good idea. For someone to have a good ratio, someone else has to have a bad one. But this severely punishes the bad ones, cutting them off at the bottom, which means there are less ways for those 'good' seeders to seed. Leechers, in many cases, are 'good fat'. - tuxidomasx, on 10/10/2007, -3/+43i dont want a new bittorrent client that makes downloads faster. the speed is fine as it is (for me). what i want is a bittorrent client that allows me to download anonymously without sacrificing much speed.
i dont want it faster. i want it safer. - Bricks, on 10/10/2007, -0/+34Porn hoarders are the new gold farmers.
- breakaway, on 10/10/2007, -2/+29They didn't develop *****.
This has been around for ages. It's called a private tracker with ratio enforcing. - tech10171968, on 10/10/2007, -0/+21I agree. Also what happens when you run into the situation I'm having now: I download a torrent to completion and, trying to be a good Bittorrent neighbor, I continue to seed the file for others to download.
******But nobody's downloading!!!!****
This drives me absolutely insane because I try like hell to keep a good ratio, but if no one is downloading the files I'm trying to seed then it's just not possible, is it? Sure, I could leave the seed up all day, but I only have one computer, it's a laptop, and I also have to make a living with it (which is why most of my filwsharing is done on the weekends or at night). It's hard to be a good neighbor when you're not being given the chance to do so. - aguynamedben, on 10/10/2007, -1/+22haha "the land of the free and the home of the RIAA/MPAA"
- Ninjao, on 10/10/2007, -1/+18If uploading isnt costing you anything then why not just do it? You downloaded that much it means someone "wasted" their time uploading it to your ass. Do the same for someone else or dont download 60gig torrents.
- peterjmag, on 10/10/2007, -1/+16Bury, read the article.
- Ninjao, on 10/10/2007, -1/+15Its like that for most people. It means you keep uploading after you download. You know you dont have to close your torrent client when you finish your download. Just limit your upload if its really bad and seed for days/weeks.
- ernasty10050, on 10/10/2007, -2/+14Yeah...after you download a torrent, save it until your ratio hits 1.0 or whatever. Don't be an ass.
- supersaw, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12sharing is caring *****
- psykiv, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Lately I've been seeding to a 2:1 ratio. Seriously, it's not really that hard.
- inobla, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10It's a good idea but nothing new or innovative. Back in the dark ages of the late 80's and early 90's before 99.9% of the world population knew what the "Internet" was, computer geeks used to dial into bulletin board systems (BBSes) to access online communities.. Many of these systems were used to swap wares, and depending on the hosting software used (and the philosophy of the Sysop), the system often tracked your Upload to Download ratio just like the P2P setup in this article. Folks would get some initial freebe credits, but after a few MB of downloads you'd be cut off if you didn't contribute anything to the pot.
I'd say this idea is about 20 years old, at least. Also, I see some hardcore contributers to P2P sites possibly being wary of the reduction in anonymity involved with such a system. I'm sure the folks at Harvard will get mad props for their "innovation". - Tenoq, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8Yeah it is. My download speed is 60 times faster than my upload speed. Moreover, if I upload more than 50% of what I download, I get one warning then my account is locked for 30 days. Australian ISPs bring new meaning to the word 'asynchronous'. Maintaining a decent seeding ratio would get my internet cut-off within a week. :-(
- Ninjao, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10Did he say anything about music? -No. Infact did he say anything about doing it for free? -again no.
Besides I download 1000's of mp3's using torrents/p2p. Using torrent does not mean you are pirating, there are legal websites like the official bittorrent site...
What I dont want is government and research agencies monitoring what im downloading.
Get peerguardian. http://phoenixlabs.org/pg2/ - Ninjao, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Wow this is amazing. Or not. You could just enforce a minimum ratio (upload/download) of 1.0 or 1.3(ie you need a ratio of 1.0 with the tracker in order to download more. Forcing you to upload until you achieve that ratio) etc.
- koko775, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Which is patently stupid. A ratio of 1.0 or greater requires that everyone must upload more than they download. This means that leechers are required to maintain the status quo, yet are discarded because they do not meet it.
- MikeWanDo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6It is physically impossible for me to seed. ***** you Comcast. The only time I can upload is when I download. If I try to seed my connection gets throttled.
- Ninjao, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Jesus your a dumb ass vichen.
- dark_helmet, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Its probably his personal laptop and he either works on contract or is say a freelance web developer.
- simpleid, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6"Oops, I didn't read the story" :-P
- Gustav, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4That's because they are more focused on money than on a good product.
Relevant? Sure. B/C this is what would happen in a currency-based file sharing system. The focus will be on the currency and not on file sharing itself.
Jeez, of all the possible systems, why emulate one as inefficient as our economic system? - hbazerbashi, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Well, eMule already works like that. Upload more, and you get downloads faster.
- Gustav, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4It would be a giant waste of resources, which people would quickly figure out and thus abandon the system altogether. Actually, I think it undermines the entire foundation of file sharing in general--it is file SHARING, not file selling.
"Pirates" use file sharing networks b/c they're virtually free--one of the goals of file sharing is sharing as cheaply as possible. This "innovation" (which it is most definitely NOT) doesn't consider transaction cost; it assumes that bandwidth and time are free, which they aren't, and since general users will need more of both in this system, it is a step backwards in terms of file sharing efficiency. - Quakes, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Depends on what tracker you're on. If you're on a private tracker, it's hard to keep your ratio up since everyone wants to have a positive ratio.
- djdole, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4As a ratio enforcer it's a good concept that should have been implemented from the get-go.
But ever since Napster attempted to go legit, I've said that they should have implemented this is a more literal fashion. Meaning that since Napster (or whoever is distributing the client) is using your precious upload bandwidth to seed the song/file etc, then someone should be paying you too. Since the P2P system would be taking the server load off of the company's back and placing it on the consumer's.
Like if iTunes implemented this, it'd be nice to download a song, leave it on my server for iTunes to seed, and eventually recoup the cost of the initial download.
But understanding business mindset though, if this were actually implemented, they would probably give store credit instead of actual reimbursement. :-[ - LatvianHedgehog, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I'm officially rich now.
- psykiv, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I just follow the "the don't download every file you see and never close your bittorrent program rule" but wtf @ Australian isp's
- paintist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3The article and PDF make it seem more complicated than it is. It's basically a way to discourage leechers by favoring users with the same client.
- nekteo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3indeed, they have an army of law professors to protect them...lol...
- rkuchiki, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2This will never work until we actually have upstream bandwidth to share.
- shinynew, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2because BT does not care what order you get your bits. So on demand will not work with the current bt protocol.
Streaming will not work until we get much much faster connections, because each person would have to upload the same amount the just downloaded, and just as fast for a decentralized streaming to work. So there would be no room for leechers, or there would have to be people streaming a ridculus amount of data just to have two people leech. And then you would have to have people sustain those same speeds for a hour and a half for a typical movie. That is for live streaming, dead streaming would be somewhat easier, the bottleneck is still that we have to slow connections, Japan is kicking our ass... - lhnz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2It doesn't kill of rare selections in private sites. Quite the opposite.
- shinynew, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2because its the best we have?
lets hear your idea. - Zyphron, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Your = possessive. You're = You Are.
But you're right, he is a dumb ass. - yunus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2The problem is that if you look at a community as a whole the ratio should be 1:1 (if there are not leechers). So if someone has a ratio of 1:5 (they have uploaded 5 times what they downloaded) they screw over others who cant maintain a 1:1 ratio because as a whole they are sharing more then there share. There are many ways to eliminate this problem though.
- DeathfireD, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2So this basically brakes anyone not using their client right? So, for example, someone with this new client is downloading a torrent from someone using a different client. Once this new client finishes downloading and starts seeding if it notices someone else with the same client, it automatically ignores everyone else and focuses on the other client? That's kind of gay and probably will do more harm then good.
- shinynew, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2or they did and its based on the peers enforcing and keeping track of the ratio, not the tracker.
This is a very important step if you want to get torrents decentralized, but their system is very far from perfect.
/spent alot of time thinking how to create a truly decentralized P2P network with ratio enforcing. - kcap122, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2um...what?
- ripstuntz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I can see kids on the playground now.. "I'll trade you 3 terabytes for your 300 gigs!!!!"
- tech10171968, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I own the company. Next question?
- Grimboy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Cross posting the following from reddit.
1. Slowing overall upload speed doesn't necessarily slow down others downloads. The other factor in download speed is number of peers/seeds uploading to you so if more people opt for a lower upload speed and but seed files for longer there will be more seeds on average so it will balance out.
2. While their rating algorithm is an interesting experiment ( http://tv.seas.harvard.edu/research.php ), there is a lot to be said for tit-for-tat. I was going to link to nice guys finish first ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_Guys_Finish_First ) but it seems it's been taken down from google video ( http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1672949407305563420 ) probably because horizon is being forced by the annoying bbc to use their crappy drm player instead but I'm sure you're capable of finding alternatives ( http://isohunt.com/torrents/?ihq=%22nice+guys+finish+first%22 ). - fryguy1013, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2bytes downloaded = bytes uploaded.
If 300 people download 500 megs each (= 150 gigs down), and they all have 1.5 ratios then they will have uploaded 225 gigs combined. Where did the extra 75 gigs go? - brianary, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Most US ISPs have such terrible upload speeds (or BitTorrent throttling--thanks Comcast bastards), I could only download one Linux distro over a three day weekend in order to upload enough to download something else, *anything else*, small or big, until I seeded for several days.
- WarMace, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Your a regular eBillionare with your mad duckets.
- Ninjao, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1lol ok ill digg that ;)
- shinynew, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You have to choose between anonymity or good ratio enforcing.
no way around it. - PacoBell, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Yeah, but P2P these days is nothing like the BBSes of old. The sysops (trackers) cannot directly monitor the transaction between two clients. It's his word vs. yours and any one of you can lie about your stats to the sysop. Who do you trust?
- brianary, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Musicians make most of their money from concerts, dumbass, not from Artificial Scarcity that increases their obscurity.
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