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141 Comments
- DCMarkie, on 10/12/2007, -3/+35Direct Link to Microsoft:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/apr06/04-19VSExpressFreePR.mspx - ricodued, on 10/12/2007, -2/+28aliensoldier:
No, the Express versions have been free since their release (some time before the RTM of Visual Studio 2005).
What changed is that the original plan was to sell them for something like $25 or $50 after a period of having them free. Now, they're free forever.
You should be thanking Microsoft, not bashing them.
thegreatsam: Heh, uh, that's one of the Coding4Fun developers' blogs. Hosted on MSDN. A Microsoft website. I think linking to the blog post was more informative since it contained links to a lot of really cool starter kits, something people who develop with Express. - tharealmegaman, on 10/12/2007, -8/+33Wow MS does something generous and all everyone is doing is bashing them?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+27As someone who's used tons of HTML editors, html-kit, dreamweaver, homesite, webspinner, notepad... I'd have to say that the .net Web Developer Express is top notch, especially if you use the plugins. Great organization, great help, and through the plugins you can get support for perl, php, python, etc. Definitely worth it for free.
- catoutfit, on 10/12/2007, -3/+25No they host the whole of microsoft's site on a 486...
Yeah I'd imagine the biggest software company in the world could deal with the 'digg effect' - colebarnes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+22The FAQ (http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/support/faq/) says the following:
"4. Can I use Express Editions for commercial use?
Yes, there are no licensing restrictions for applications built using the Express Editions."
I would assume that "no licensing restrictions" would cover more than just commercial use (including GPL or similar licenses). - ilitirit, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23I think it has more to do with broadening the market for Visual Studio than stopping people from cracking it. There are a lot of people who don't use it because of the price and because open-source alternatives exist. A lot of these same people go on to work at corporates where they have a say in which tools to use. That's just a simplified scenario, but it's still valid. So why would people move to VS if OSS alternatives exist? Because IMO, VS is leaps and bounds ahead of most other IDE's out there, and I should know because I use/have used most of the popular ones throughout my career.
- catoutfit, on 10/12/2007, -3/+24agreed...
Why does everyone have to look this gift-horse in the mouth?
it's free and it's good, so let the good times roll, C# is reportadly coming to OS X too, another reason to familiarise yourself with it?
Microsoft DO write good software, aside from Windows anyway...MS Office is better than Open Office (in terms of performance anyway, and I prefer the layout etc), VB.net is better than RealBasic/TurboBasic/TurdBasic. oh yeah IE is really crap but whatever...
I do use Linux/Firefox etc I'm just saying I don't know why most people are so black and white about things, MS do write good software, I mean come on, theyre one of the biggest comanies in the world and they spend loads on RAD and hire many of the best developers in the the world, so come on...give 'em a break. - danielfe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+22Hey everyone,
I've been a Digg fan for a while so it was great to see this announcement on the home page. I do however want to respond to some of the comments posted above:
Microsoft and Free
The Express products have been free since we launched them in November. Today's announcement is that we are, as the Digg story correctly points out, making Visual Studio 2005 Express free permanently. It isn't that unusual for Microsoft to produce free software as we've done this with our database engine (SQL Server) since 2000 (then named MSDE), Outlook Express, Windows Media Player, and SDKs like the .NET Framework SDK, or the Windows Platform SDK any many other tools have always been free.
While it may not sound good for conspiracy theorists, the reason we decided to make Express free was because of the massive number of people downloading the product. To give you an estimate as to how many people that is, there are an estimated 18 million hobbyists worldwide. Within the five months we had 5 million downloads. That's huge. To think of this another way, there are approximately 5 million World of Warcraft subscribers today. There were certainly internal debates about whether to make it free or not, but in the end, I think we did the right thing by making it free permanently.
Microsoft and Hobbyists
Since the inception of Microsoft the company, we've cared about hobbyists and in a lot of ways, this is us returning to our roots. Hobbyists building great applications on Windows is what made us successful. How many people grew up on a green-screen using Basic? I think we can all agree that we can make everyone's first time development experience nicer by using an IDE. If you look at the developer IDEs in the market today, almost all are built for professional use. As many of you can attest to, there are different types of developers including beginners, hobbyists, and students who primarily code outside of work. Our goal is to enable a great development experience for the kinds of things non-professional developers are doing including hardware, gaming, or personal Web sites.
Cool Stuff
This really isn't just about a tool, but rather enabling people to do cool things, including being able to program hardware like Lego Mindstorms, web cams and webcams, learning how to create realistic 3D games, or maybe just learning how to create your own personal web site, blog, or even your own eBay storefront. We even have a dedicated Web site for cool things you can program - http://msdn.microsoft.com/coding4fun/ that includes everything from useful utilities, to projects that have been on Digg http://www.digg.com/programming/Mod_Your_Foosball_Table, to DIY April Fool's day pranks - http://msdn.microsoft.com/coding4fun/april-fools/.
Thanks again everyone for the feedback, I know we have some work to do to regain your trust, but we're trying. Take Express out for a spin, tell us if you like it and send us your feedback.
Also, to be really open, if any of you do want to contact me directly, feel free to email me at danielfe!nospam!@microsoft.com.
Thanks and as always, digg on :)
-Dan Fernandez
Lead Product Manager - Visual Studio Express - robwistar, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20no, direct links are not always better. for instance, most of the science articles on digg link to news stories about some scientific accomplishment, not directly to the researcher's whitepaper.
this digg link points to a blog written by the visual studio product manager that is directed at the programming community. it succinctly contains most of the useful information i need: useful information that would not easily be found by clicking through the marketing-centric microsoft.com website.
blatant blog spam sucks, but blogs can be useful. - kickarse, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/support/install/
Direct ISO download instead of crappy streamed download... They can take the digg effect can't they? - kalphegor, on 10/12/2007, -8/+24direct links are always better
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/ - thegreatsam, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17Thanks. I hate people who link to blogs when the blogs just point to something else...
- desiv, on 10/12/2007, -6/+20That's not what Bait and Switch is...
...and they say the future versions will be free as well...
More accurately a "loss leader" of a sort.. - chadu, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15because everyone has free developer tools... Eclipse, Apple's XCode, etc... just makes sense to get the tool for free then charge for the server or system required to run what the developer creates.
- crpietschmann, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11drakethegreat - " They realize that open source projects and hobbiests are more interested when the development kits aren't hundreds of dollars"
Actually the .NET Framework SDK is FREE and has always been FREE. The Express editions of Visual Studio are the FREE editions of Visual Studio. This is just a way to get people to see how awesome the Visual Studio IDE is and get them hooked so they buy it eventually. - MikeCampo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Good stuff...I've been using the Visual C++ one for a while now, definitely worth checking out.
- colebarnes, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Say what you will about MS, their development tools have been nice as far back as I've been using them. Way back in the VS 6 days. And, they've been doing some pretty un-Microsoft-like things lately. Whether it's because they're afraid of competition, who's to say. But I'm liking it; I think we're all going to be surprised with the final release of Vista.
Anyway, on with the bashing from MS haters... - burke, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11I'm not sure I understand what's going on here... Yes, it's free as in beer, but definitely not as in speech.
- ubergmr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Fzero, way to make the most annoying comment ever. Next time post a link
- tedferguson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Microsoft frequently gives away the standard edition and books if you do a lab or watch a few webcasts.
http://msdn1.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx - _jinx_, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9This is a smart step from microsoft, it's good to hear they made this decision.
- gcauthon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Uhh, you'll have a hard time "releasing" a product without dynamic linking. All of your code must be statically linked which pretty much guarentees you won't be using the express edition on any real projects. The express edition, like the learning edition before it, are for _learning_ to program. They're not for releasing packaged applications. This is why MS has always given it away for free. They know that whatever you code will basically remain on your desktop.
- MikeWeller, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Sorry for linking to the blog, that's where I first saw it, and it was from the lead product manager after all so it's not so bad.
- drakethegreat, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Most likely they are up to trying to attract and keep software developers that are low budget. They realize that open source projects and hobbiests are more interested when the development kits aren't hundreds of dollars. Keep in mind that out of all major platforms they are the only one that charges. Although these are just express kits so its not like their full line of development tools are now free.
- HeapAlloc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Everyone is giving it away for free??? Hardly.
Here are the prices for Rational Software Architect, IBM's Eclipse-based development platform.
IBM Rational Software Architect Floating User License + SW Maintenance 12 Months (D54LALL) $9,625.00
IBM Rational Software Architect Authorized User License + SW Maintenance 12 Months (D54LILL) $5,500.00
IBM Rational Software Architect Authorized User Initial Fixed Term License + SW Maintenance 12 Months (D54S7LL) $2,965.00
That, my friend, is FAR from free. - adolfojp, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I agree. We should concentrate on front paging only mac rumors and new linux distro releases.
Sarcasm. Google it. - Jorg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5drake.t.g... What do you mean they are the only one that charges?
Please tell me what OS vendor gives you a full IDE for free?
And MS has always offered their SDKs and a command line compiler for free. - Gronkk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5You can combine the C++ express edition with the Windows SDK and you get a full development environment:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/visualc/usingpsdk/ - elnerdo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Well, seeing as their traffic rating dwarves digg's own traffic rating ( according to alexa.com ), I'll assume they can
Source:
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?&range=6m&size=medium&y=r&url=http://www.microsoft.com/#top - ilitirit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"First they are trying to grow their user base for the .Net framework which is losing steam."
Do you have an article or reference for this claim? I'm interested because AFAIK .NET is the direction Microsoft is headed. If this really is the case then Vista is in trouble... - ubergmr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I already downloaded some of these programs when they were temporarily free, I'm glad that others will have to same chance. While some might dislike Microsoft's .net languages, you can argue that the programing environment is great, and is a good place to start learning to program.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Admiral Ackbar, this is not fark.com :P
Personally I think this is a good thing. I might get that old C book out and have another go at this programming stuff... - MrTea, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5So by buying VS 2k5 Standard I practically paid for MFC and ATL usage with C Plus Plus? Wow, thus kinda sucks then.
Edit: I just remembered the rc editors and certain other things, nm. lol - n00854180t, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Been using VSC++ 2005 Express beta for a while now, and I'm highly impressed with the quality of the Express edition tools. Great to hear these will be free indefinitely. If one thing can be said of MS, it's that they make good IDEs.
- erkokite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@Jorg
Just to answer your question. I don't know of any OS vendor that gives away an IDE for free, but Code::Blocks, Eclipse, and Dev C++ have always been free. They all require a compiler, but mingw or cygwin, or even MSVC++ will work with them. So there are plenty of free development environments.
anyways
I though the express editions of VC++ were always free. Oh well, guess it's good news anyway. Even though I don't really like Microsoft, they do have very high quality dev tools. I even have express 2005. Works quite well. If you're not doing cross platform work, it's definitely a very good way to go, otherwise go with cygwin or mingw. - ilitirit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I knew there was a comparision chart somewhere...
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/products/compare/default.aspx
Bear in mind that this chart only relates to the 2005 product suite... - constantine11, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Way to wise up, Microsoft! Charging for the Visual Studio Express would have been analogous to Netscape's initial decision to charge corporate users for Navigator.
The issue becomes whether hobbist programmers will want to pay up for Visual Studio when they actually want to have software interact with real databases. Besides, with things like AJAX, it's becoming more and more difficult to justify making a desktop applications. - curmudgeon7205, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The major issue with the express editions (except, strangely, Visual Web Dev Express) is the manner in which one uses a SQL Database.
In the VS Wed Dev, one can connect to a shared database. In the other Express products, you attach (as a sole user!) a SQL database, in effect completely "owning" the database. Damned little integration in that sort of setup. - danielfe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3While Express and Eclipse may look similar on the surface, the reality is that they are designed for different audiences with unique needs. One one hand, Eclipse is designed for professional developers, while on the other hand, Express is designed for non-professional developers including beginners, hobbyists, and students. The partners that have signed on to support Express, such as eBay and Lego, are a testament to how we are explicitly targeting non-professional developers.
Thanks,
-Dan - sayitaintjonas, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I've been using Visual Web Developer Express and SQL Express for a couple months now and I couldn't be happier.....Maybe with less bloat, but I am a minimalist at heart.
The built-in functionality is wonderful and its free, i mean c'mon. While I'm not a huge fan of Microsoft's tactics sometimes, they've got me sold on their development software. - colebarnes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3VS 6 came about a little less than 10 years ago (1997-1998 I think). That's a LONG time in tech years; I imagine that in 2013 we'll all be talking about the good-old-days of xCode 2.0. It's a very nice development platform, the only downside (and it's a BIG one) is that it ties you to Windows.
- jbklego, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6where might one find said plugins?
- _jinx_, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5It's not really as much competition as much as it is growing there developer base, the .NET industry is growing dramatically with a much better pay then the Open Source world, it's nice to see that they are doing this but we are all curious as to there intentions.
- ilitirit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Are the Express versions cut down or limited in any way?"
Compared to? I've used the Express, Standard and Team System Editions and there definitely are differences. If all you want to do is build VB desktop apps, then the Express Edition is fine. I think you only get a small subset of the Documentation though. The standard edition is like a bundle of all the Express editions with MSDN and a bit more functionality and wizardry. The Team System has extra things like built-in Testing tools (great feature) and Code Analysis (ex-FX Cop; really great feature) - basically geared towards Team Development. - adolfojp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I really like these express editions. I believe that they are far superior to some free tools of the competition like Sun Java Studio Creator.
They are all that I really need, and I develop enterprise grade software solutions for a living. I can keep the databases in Linux or BSDs and spend a little cash on some .net servers and still save money because I spend less time hammering code. - nacs, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Jorg:
Um, who *doesn't* offer a full IDE for free.
Every Linux distro has gcc for compiling and multiple IDEs like KDevelop and Gnome's IDE (forget it's name).
Mac comes with XCode (and uses gcc as the compiler).
And the ones (Xcode, kdevelop and more) I stated above are free, full featured products too. Not some cut down version of a commercial product that costs hundreds of dollars.
Hell. KDevelop and many Linux-based ones are even open source so you can not only build apps with the IDE but actually modify the IDE itself. - zagi1, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8It should say Free As in Free Speech, sorry buddy but that would never happen :)
- drwiii, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3As a long time user of Visual Studio, I tried the Express Edition of Visual C++ on a whim about a month ago. The IDE is near-identical and you'll recognize most of the familiar menus from VS. The only real limitation I ran into personally was the lack of an integrated resource editor/compiler. I don't see it luring any current VS users away (unless they're broke), but if you're a hobbyist developer on Windows, the free offering is very feature-complete, very attractive, and well worth the download time and CD-R.
- aussieaubs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2FYI --
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/support/faq/
nb point 5....
5. How are Express Editions different from the rest of the Visual Studio and SQL Server Editions?
Express Edition products are designed for hobbyists, students, and novice developers. As such, they lack the full breadth of features found in higher-end Visual Studio and SQL Server Editions. They are designed specifically for scenarios common to the hobbyist, student, and novice developer. Each Express Edition includes targeted documentation that will help the beginning programmer quickly learn the concepts required to build more advanced applications. The user interfaces are significantly streamlined to ensure that extraneous features do not interfere with the learning process. If you later decide that you do need additional features available in the higher-end editions of Visual Studio and SQL Server, you can seamlessly upgrade your code and skills. -
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