What is Digg?Sponsored by Dragon Age: Origins
Can't get enough Dragon Age: Origins? Play the flash game. view!
DragonAgeJourneys.com - Play the free companion flash game to Dragon Age: Origins.
42 Comments
- mdowney, on 11/18/2008, -4/+27@chaoswings - When was the last time you checked out the code that Dreamweaver outputs? It's actually been widely praised for the quality of it's code output for the last two releases. Dreamweaver CS4 is worth taking a look at if you have doubts. There is a free 30-day trial on adobe.com/downloads.
Mike Downey, Adobe
mdowney --at-- adobe.com - xeno439, on 11/17/2008, -3/+8Dugg for Sitepoint, that old relic. Haven't visited that site in a few years.
This looks awesome. - benologist, on 11/18/2008, -1/+5Yes:
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashcatalyst/ - post3r3r, on 11/18/2008, -1/+4You obviously haven't used Flex.
- rwalters, on 11/18/2008, -3/+6wow, this is exciting
- mfrancis107, on 11/18/2008, -0/+3Well, I think adobe is trying to expand the amount of users, they are trying to attract users who are not exceptional in coding. Take Dreamweaver for example, if you are a webdesigner, you don't use most of the functions of Dreamweaver, because you can just type the code. But a person who is just learning webdesign can use it to create a decent website.
Yes, a true developer already has the tolls that he/she needs. But the Flash Catalyst can be used by other people. Perhaps a teacher could easily make an interactive application for the students to use. I doubt this program is intended to be marketed to advanced developers. - poutch, on 11/18/2008, -0/+3you are confusing bad software with bad coders.
i don't think you can blame adobe because someone has no idea of what css is and is experimenting with it, which will lead to many .style1 .style2 ......
dreamweaver is a good tool to write clean code when you're a professional. if your not, you're gonna screw it up at some point, dreamweaver or not - dshPls, on 11/18/2008, -3/+6Oh god, this is going to make my life hell as a Flash guy. Components were introduced back with Flash MX(I think) and they've been a plague to every half competent Flash Developer ever since, they're in-flexible, uneditable and a massive pain in the ass. This is going to be that, on crack.
- prodigitalson, on 11/18/2008, -0/+2There is some truth in that for sure.
- prodigitalson, on 11/18/2008, -0/+2Have you played with FLEX at all? Its awesome. Really.
I am however highly skeptical of this product. ITs a good idea, Just Like DW, GoLive and all the other WYSIWYG editors were. However the only thing they do is cause me headaches haveing to redo EVERYTHING. Chop up the templates for view templates.
That said because of how FLEX works I doubt this could be as bad as DW or what have you, but I'm still very weary.
Oh yeah almost forgot... ***** SPRY! - etx313, on 11/18/2008, -1/+3AIR is awesome.
- Thousand, on 11/18/2008, -1/+3Of course AS2 components were hell on wheels. That's why every "half competent" Flash Developer has moved on to AS3, which I would encourage you, as a "Flash guy", to do as well.
- Wuss, on 11/18/2008, -2/+4I would LOVE to get my hands on a beta. I've always been that designer quasi-developer that yearns to be the double threat, but never has enough time or willpower to be a hard core developer. It's the paradox of the brain. If you're awesome at one, it's hard to be awesome at the other. "Awesome" being the operative word.
I do have my reservations as to the efficiency of the code being generated behind the scenes, but absolute worst case scenario, even if this thing was junk, it would do wonders for rapid prototyping, especially if I didn't have to use my developer guys as crutches.
If this thing is even average, I'll pee my pants. - VitriolAndAngst, on 11/18/2008, -2/+3This appears to be a good idea of leveraging without real innovation.
Why not just make a macro that creates auto-magic buttons in Flash? Do I really need another product to develop with? Does this require Yet Another Plugin? Enhancing existing technology makes it more powerful. Adobe already has applications in all the key areas -- why do they need a new category?
The attention of developers will be split. I predict this will garner as much attention as Adobe AIR. - prodigitalson, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1Dugg down for encouraging WYSIWYG editing.
- nunofgs, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1Just what we need. More websites done entirely in Flash.
- VitriolAndAngst, on 11/18/2008, -4/+5You must have been dugg down by people who work for Adobe customer service.
- madrid, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1this is Important
This IS important
this is IMPORTANT - VitriolAndAngst, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1Well, that is my point.
Have the assist for Flash. Then some programmer can re-use some skills if necessary. But either this new product will be crippled, or will be one more thing to learn. What is the point if it doesn't lead to a real solution? Why would you learn an application as a developer that had no depth?
Why do we need this new gimmick? - RobotBuddha, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1I came to air thinking it was a stupid marketing gimmick. And, I'll agree that it doesn't have a huge amount of things really taking advantage of it. But from going over the api, seeing what it 'can' do as opposed to what people have used it for. It's a pretty cool technology. I really wish 3rd party efforts weren't needed to add that last bit of polish, but the fact that they are there is pretty nice too.
- BoneStamp, on 11/17/2008, -1/+2The keynote where this was announced was pretty good, although I have no idea why the Disney guy was there (other than the obvious 5 minute Disney plug - he added no value). I was in a session right after this and the speaker asked, "how many of you have heard of Catalyst?" and only like 10 people put their hands up. Shows you how many people were paying attention during the keynote.
- DCstewieG, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1These PRETZELS are making me THIRSTY!
- JInnsbrook, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1Ha.... so was I
- madrid, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1This. Is. ImporTANT.
- madrid, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1This is important.
- Wuss, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1Adobe Air is specifically designed to run on your desktop independent of your web browser and internet connection.
know what you're talking about before you bash. - dshPls, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1There's no need for the migration where I work yet, AS3 is great for a lot of things, none of which affect me.
- chaoswings, on 11/18/2008, -1/+2@prodigitalson
Excuse me for actually wanting to efficiently and quickly set up CSS positioning. Good developers are those who can generate good clean code using any tools at their disposal to streamline the process. I guarantee all those who Dugg me down were just following the mob mentality and aren't even web developers.
Do all of you create your images in paint too instead of neatly slicing them up in Photoshop?
Typical knee jerk reaction from Digg. Should have known better... - prodigitalson, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1@chaos:
"Excuse me for actually wanting to efficiently and quickly set up CSS positioning."
Its efficient for you. It may not be for the frontend and backend developers. You cant honeslt tell me that clicking through UI elements to set up a style for something is faster than typing:
.my_class { ... }
Secondly I dont know how your team works but mine rarely uses positioning. Everything is "in flow" so that point is moot. But even if it weren't I can still typw my rules faster than clicking on things.
"Good developers are those who can generate good clean code using any tools at their disposal to streamline the process."
This is true. And I don't have much against DW as a text editor. Its in WYSIWYG mode where the issues arise. That said, for all the resources it eats compared to the functionality it provides... Eclipse, Textmate and E blow it out of the water.
"I guarantee all those who Dugg me down were just following the mob mentality and aren't even web developers."
Nope wrong again. I started out using DW at version 4. I abandoned it at MX when i found Textmate. For me it was a progression. I started using WYSIWYG mode. Eventually my layouts and techniques evloved to the point where WYSIWYG was hurting me more than helping so i started only using the "code view". Then I found textamate thanks to the RoR craze and it was much more valuable and had a much better feature set. Then as i got more and more into actual development (ie. scripting - not xhtml/css) I found Eclipse which in my opinion cant be beat for medium to large size dynamic sites and web applications. Oh yeah... and its OpenSource aka. free.
Furthermore, I can tell you that anytime something comes in from an external frontend web person thats been done in DW there is an audible collective sigh on the part of the development team I work with.
"Do all of you create your images in paint too instead of neatly slicing them up in Photoshop?"
No actually. I use Fireworks. Photoshop has and always will be an image editor IMO no matter how much cruft they throw in it, and we use it as such. Its used for editing images, not making layout composites. Compositing and production is all done in Fireworks. Creation of elements for the layout is done in Photoshop. Our workflow is similar to a print workflow in the respect that we would no more layout a website composite in Photoshop than we would layout a brochure in Photoshop. Granted we are fairly unique in this respect as most groups use PS for their composites as well but we decidedly and wholeheartedly prefer Fireworks. - prodigitalson, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1Dug for excessive use of the word *****.
- Th3Wh1teRabb1t, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1I'm not your friend, buddy
- mwhatley, on 11/18/2008, -3/+3this makes me salivate
- inactive, on 11/18/2008, -1/+1damn the demo video is down
- Thousand, on 11/20/2008, -0/+0Your two statements are incompatible. In the first you bemoan how terrible flash components are, and in the second you brush it off as a not even being a concern. If the benefits of AS3 don't affect you, one of which is the vastly improved component system, then why complain (at length) about AS2's deficiencies? It's like bitching about the fact you can't take your old rotary phone with you in the car because of its stupid phone cord, heavy weight, and difficulty in dialing while driving, but then saying "No, that's okay, I don't really need a cell phone. They're not for me."
You can't fence-sit on a fence that doesn't exist. - mephitix, on 11/18/2008, -5/+4Expression Design + Blend have been doing exactly the same thing. It's good to see this functionality from Adobe though, especially given that Photoshop is a quality product.
- oriondr, on 11/18/2008, -2/+1Sounds like Adobe is playing catch-up to Silverlight -- which already had the kind of artist-developer separation Adobe is trying to implement into flash in mind from Silverlight's inception.
- dogparade, on 11/18/2008, -3/+1I liked the look of this at first but now I'm thinking whats the point?
Flash developers are all *****, they moan when they have to coe the UI and they end up doing a ***** job but they'll moan even more when designers are putting the UI together which no doubt will throw Dreamweaver-esque code all over the place.
I worked with a one massive ***** of a developer he refused to make a full screen flash site making dumb fake excuses, I told him I'd do it my ***** self then and he can rewrite my 12 lines of code into his AS3. It was only 12 simple lines using the same tween engine as him to position a few elements to left/right/center of the screen, but like 99% of flash developers he was such a ***** that he refused completely to even look at my 12 lines of code and instead opted to stack 3 seperate swf files into a html page so the code before my bit could be AS3 then my element positioning placed in a swf over the top of that (these were stacked divs for ***** sake) then finally his ***** would appear over the top of mine JUST ***** APPEAR just so he didn't have to look at 12 lines of AS2
FLASH DEVELOPERS
WHAT
A
BUNCH
OF
*****
***** - dogparade, on 11/18/2008, -2/+0Adobe Air is even worse, I can stomach a flash page, but I don't want some non standard clunky as ***** UI on my desktop.
- dogparade, on 11/18/2008, -2/+0***** that
I've got Textmate+Transmit+CSSEdit
hundreds of times more powerful and less resource intensive at a fraction of the price - darkciti2, on 11/18/2008, -7/+1***** the RIA !!!
Heh, and while we're at it Flex and AIR.
If I wanted to see advertising without user level block controls, I'd watch the shopping channel.
Besides, I don't want web apps to be able to access everything on my PC without specific directory limitations. As AiR/Flex exist, I only have 2 options: Allow or Deny.
No thanks.
I'll stick with AJAX. - limitGov, on 11/18/2008, -12/+2Adobe still makes software?
- chaoswings, on 11/18/2008, -19/+9No offense to Adobe but they still don't have Dreamweaver spitting out half decent code and this is going to make things worse. There is nothing I hate more then combing through pages of unnecessary ugly code generated by DW. It's fine to just use it to position elements on a page but if you try to do more you will get trouble down the line.
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is