What is Digg?109 Comments
- hiro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Since taping over my unused USB ports and floppy drive slot none of my memory has leaked out. Would probably work as well with silicone caulk.
- ThePhilomath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"In what file can I find 'browser.sessionhistory.max_total_viewers'"
Type in about:config in the address bar, scroll down until you find the value and then set it to whatever you want. - jiminoc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I've tested this and it works! Firefox went from using 250MB of ram on my osx system to now running 54MB of ram with the same tabs/pages viewed.
- kjhatch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3My biggest leak problems have always occurred (all versions, with or without extensions) when the browser is left open overnight. The description from the article of the caching "feature" does not explain that.
- jinexile, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3luchid, It's easy to ask "How do other browsers (Opera for instance) use fastback-like technology without ramping up their browser's memory consumption?" the hard part is answering because Opera is closed source and none of their developers have been really forthcoming with answers to this question.
Do you really think that if there was an easy solution to the trade off that some programmer contributing to Firefox's code would not have submitted it by now? Give them some credit, it's not like they can wave a magic wand and make the browser a) fast b) lean c) extensible and d) cross-platform all at the same time. Unfortunately as Ben said there are trade offs, one of the trade offs for being as extensible as Firefox and truly cross platform is that it is hard to make it lean and often adversely affects its speed as well. - TheNik, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Set browser.sessionhistory.max_total_viewers to zero (in about:config). The man claims it slows down browsing, but infact I am viewing pages at triple the speed I do normally.
- mesostinky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3This doesn't explain why I can leave Firefox up and running with 4 or 5 tabs and have it up to 500MB+ by morning now does it?
I love Firefox and push it on everyone I know. But man does it leak like hell and randomly at that. I don't envy devs who have to try and figure out what causes these problems but long term this is something they are going to have to address. It's a serious problem and too many people continue to have problem to just chalk it up to "user error".
It's still by far the best browser going, but Firefox fans need to own up to its flaws and not just attack everyone and keep saying that its the user's fault and not Firefox's. - TigerX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Yeah, I think I'm going to listen to the Head Software Engineer of Firefox over the morons who comment at Digg. The memory usage is because of the feature. Yes, people asked for the feature. Yes, several have commented that they like how fast their browsing is now because of it.
To argue that it is not a feature is moronic to the Nth degree. - mrASSMAN, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4its not an f'n memory leak, i've been saying this since i first heard people complaining about 1.5's "memory leak".
as the developer just confirmed, ITS NOT A LEAK!! its a trade off with fast cached pages in firefox's 1.5's fastback feature. recent pages are stored in memory in order to allow for the user to quickly go back and forth between recent pages. if you click on a few pages in a number of tabs (all open on the screen) the page cache will grow. it really is just a feature and there's no way around it.
i suppose if your computer cant handle it, go back to 1.0. overall, the browser experience is increased with fast-back technology. - Malakin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If you're having weird problems with Firefox like frequent crashing, bad memory leaks, or it stays running when closed I suggest trying a clean profile, here are instructions on how to do that.
This backs up your old profile so you can easily switch back to how things are now if the procedure doesn't help. This is for Windows but other OS users should be able to figure out the different directory locations.
Optional - Make a list of your extensions or download the latest versions all into one folder for easy installation.
Close Firefox, make sure it's closed by checking the task list if needed.
Rename the profile directory to Firefox-old. Note that "application data" is a hidden folder.
"C:Documents and Settings[user name]Application DataMozillaFirefox"
Uninstall Firefox from add/remove programs. Then delete the "C:Program FilesMozilla Firefox" folder to make sure it's completely gone.
Install the latest version of Firefox and run it.
Import your old bookmarks from the old backed up profile.
"C:Documents and Settings[user name]Application DataMozillaFirefox-oldProfiles[random string].defaultbookmarks.html"
Use Firefox for a while without installing any extensions to see how well it's running and hopefully the problems will be solved.
If a clean profile doesn't help at all and you want to go back to how things were you can close Firefox, rename the new Firefox profile folder to old1 and rename Firefox-old back to Firefox. - teclo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Come on. I have Firefox 1.5 runing, 5 or 6 tabs open, unfocused and then all of a sudden my machine grinds to a hault. Bringing up task manager I see that Firefox is using 192meg of main ram and 400+ meg of virtual.
I don't see how this description of the back cache can explain that. - darkmane, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2To clarify:
A memory leak is when all references to some allocated memory are elimnated, but the memory is not deallocated. So there is no way to get the memory back with out closing the process.
What he describes is memory bloat, it's just a lot of memory being allocated and being used, but the use is questionable.
I look forward to editting the setting and seeing how it affects my browsing. - Jozer99, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Valid, but my observations do not fit with this "feature". Opera uses much less memory than Firefox, even with lots of tabs open.
1. Opening lots of tabs in firefox, browsing in all of them, then closing the tabs. The memory usage of firefox with one tab "after" the experiment is 40 MB over firefox "before" lots of tabs were opened.
2. Open one tab in firefox, just load it to your homepage, do not browse, but leave it running over night. Your memory usage may be up to 100MB more than the night before, despite no browsing.
3. Opening any flash or pdf containing page and your memory usage instantly spikes and does not go all the way down unless you restart the browser. - fozzy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2For me the issue is returning memory to the system. I once had Firefox using more then 800megs of memory with only one window containing one tab open. Over the past couple of days I had used dozens of windows with many dozens of tabs. Over this time I had had at least one Firefox window open at all times. It seems like all the caching from closed tabs was still using memory (if this was the cause of the stupid amount of memory usage). In order to return all the memory to the system I have to close all Firefox windows.
- luchid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2jinexile: You're probably right, I might be demanding a lot from Firefox, and it probably is hard to make it perform well in every area.
But I don't think that we have to sacrifice resources to keep it cross-platform or to enjoy the other benefits that Firefox has.
My point was that maybe the Mozilla team is not giving those memory leaks the importance they deserve, and instead they're focusing on other (minor) features. - luchid, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3As much as I like Firefox, I think he's just being apologetic, and I totally agree with one comment in the article:
"How do other browsers (Opera for instance) use fastback-like technology without ramping up their browser's memory consumption? Is it a design flaw?"
Come on Mozilla! Why don't you just make 2.0 be faster, smoother, and leaner? Leave the small perks for later releases. - HarryBauzonia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm a tab freak......I modified my settings as he says in the article and I've seen a noticeable improvement.
- Hendo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"What I think many people are talking about however with Firefox 1.5 is not really a memory leak at all. It is in fact a feature."
Yeah, that works with our clients all the time.... - strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2What a joke... a feature my ass. Maybe it's caused by some sloppy ass coding on that feature, but the idea that leaving a single firefox instance open overnight with no activity and only one or two tabs open somehow causes the program to eat up an extra 50-60MB of memory is a joke.
- replica, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@mrassman
Why does IE7 and Opera not have the same problem? They are just as fast switching between pages without memory problems. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm not sure they can do anything with TalkBack, it's proprietry. That may not be bad though, since it means they can't add a pile of bugs to it. All they really need to do is an extension or addition that lets users click a button when memory usage is high, and that sends a non-TalkBack report. The privacy ramifications are a little prohibitive of that though.
Asa has always been pretty quiet about memory issues. I don't know what his motives are, but I'm sure it's no coincidence that he's in charge of quality assurance, the quality has been lacking for years, and he's not talking about it. I would be amazed if that arrogant ***** posted anything admitting he screwed up for 4 years, instead of his usual rants and self-praising crap.
Open source software can be bought, look at Oracle, they bought Innobase and Sleepycat, which gives them a (very potential) stranglehold on MySQL and it's future growth.
Opera has been around for many years now, with a (small but) loyal following. I would be surprised and disappointed if they sold, but I don't see it happening or being devestating if they did - it would not guarantee a death sentence. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1yup, it won't free up what should be 'unused' memory, or memory I no longer need when FF either closes, crashes or has just 1 tab open
and that's an issue, but design or not
if by design, that's bad design - aeoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@r2d7:
"Open source software can be bought, look at Oracle, they bought Innobase and Sleepycat, which gives them a (very potential) stranglehold on MySQL and it's future growth."
Well, we should wait and see in this case. :) Or so I think. I don't think we can predict what will happen. When it comes to free and open source, you can buy the developer, but you can't buy the software assets. :) On the other hand, proprietary software can be purchased and terminated.
I've used Opera before and personally when I tried it last I thought it sucked. Granted, there have been many improvements in Opera recently, but I'm happy with FF and see no reason to stop using it.
I think Asa is confident and maybe sometimes he does like to tweak some people, but I don't think he's more arrogant than an average human. I read his rants and while I think he enjoys to throw a certain curve ball at a certain group of people just for kicks (in my opinion... I bet he gets a laugh at all the veins popping on his blog). The thing is, if Asa took the barbs and tweaks out, the meat of his complaints about Opera and IE would still be true. In my experience Asa checks fairly carefully before posting. So while people like to attack him and call him arrogant, it's mostly because Asa hit their nerve due to a mixture of truth and tweaks. Granted, if Asa was a saint, maybe (and this still is a maybe, because maybe saints think we take ourselves way too seriously and would tweak us too?) he could just post his complaint in a completely neutral and self-effacing tone, replete with no less than 10 references every time, etc... spending tons and tons of stuff researching on his personal blog. That's not my dream. I really don't care. Maybe some people want to see Asa improve himself in this way, but not me. *shrug* Anyway, to put it more briefly, I don't think Asa is arrogant.
In fact, I think Asa does care deeply about Firefox users and really does take their issues to heart. But as the man in the trenches, so to speak, he's also had to deal with a lot of BS bug reporting and nonsense coming from FF users, and maybe that makes him a little more thick skinned. But at least he's thick skinned in an honest way and not like some fake-smiley PR person. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Inevitably, comments by Firefox users about Firefox problems - specifically memory leaks - result in one of two responses:
- fix it yourself by [insert lengthy instructions]
- I don't experience it
Whether any one user experiences it is absolutely irrelevant, so I'm disappointed to see once again a whole bunch of tards who think because they're exempt, it's not a problem.
It's absolutely unsurprising to see others say "fix it yourself".
It's absolutely ludicrous to write it off as a feature. The caching is a feature, the memory drainage is a bug.
It's absolutely ludicrous to say it should be expected because of how complicated Firefox is. Here's a thought - Linux, Windows, MSSQL, Oracle, MySQL etc all manage to avoid or rectify memory leaks, on software infinitely more complex than a browser. - ThePhilomath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The memory leak is old news, not this story.
- akinder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"RAM is cheap these days and you should have a computer that can handle it by now."
Hilarious. Are you the same type of OSS shill that bashes Vista for requiring some steep hardware?
"LOL Those stupid M$ people, needing 4GB of ram to BLUE SCREEN"
Next Day
"Man Firefox is so awesome, I just bought 6GB of RAM so I can use 4 tabs instead of just 3, Firefox is awesome!" - tackle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2This doesn't explain why I can leave Firefox up and running with 4 or 5 tabs and have it up to 500MB+ by morning now does it?
It is not a bug. It is a feature. Unused RAM is wasted RAM. So, Firefox actively uses your unused RAM when you are sound asleep so that your RAM doesnt go wasted.
True Story. - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I don't get any of these memory leaks with 1.5. I'd be willing to bet that the people that do get it from an extension, an improper tweak setting or corrupted profile. The only other possibility is maybe something to do with processor type. I dunno what to tell you, I don't get these memory leaks, I have ~20 extensions installed, I watch videos and flash on a regular basis and browse all sorts of forums, and scripted sites.
If you want to PROVE you get memory leaks, then you have to provide info to the developers, not just complain about it. I know there are some logging tools available for Firefox if you're that serious about this memory leak. - ShadowKlown, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1LOL! @ Hiro, that goes along with if you want your computer to be safe, unplug all the wires from the back :)
- aeoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@r2d7
"Whether any one user experiences it is absolutely irrelevant, so I'm disappointed to see once again a whole bunch of tards who think because they're exempt, it's not a problem."
Well, I reported that I don't experience any leaks, but I also said I sympathize with those who do and want it fixed. You can still call me a tard if you like, but at least this one person here is not the way you describe.
I imagine those who reported no leaks are not necessarily callous -- they just want people to know that it's not all bad. I think that Firefox team really needs to make a home-back + brainless tool to track memory usage in order to fix this.
It's probably some Javascript gone wild somewhere. A browser that's left open overnight growing to 1.5 gig RAM really suggests that to me. I can be wrong of course. Javascript engine should be defensive toward poorly written code, but as far as I know, it is not yet. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1i chuckled at calling it a feature.. reminded me of ms saying the wmf exploit wasnt a hole but a feature.
opera is faster and doesnt have this problem.. but despite all that AND the webpage that shows me how to get popular firefox extension ability in opera, I still like firefox better.
IF you have a leak though.. ie. not browsing.. leaving open firefox.. and mem still climbs.. then it is probably an extension.
SO opera have developers that know how to optomise speed and mem, firefox has developers that make a more enjoyable browser.. i wish they could steal a couple of those opera guys but until then, keep up the great work Firefox guys.. and thanks for the info.. works better than any firefox tweak i have read about. - JimXugle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Classic.
"It's not a bug... uhhh... It's a feature!"
M$ said the Same thing with the BSoD.
FF fanboy talking here. - kehunt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Good gravy, that's the most typical "developer" answer to a major user complaint I've ever read. A "feature"??? I hope he's joking.
Firefox allows essentially an unbounded number of tabs; this means the page cache he's talking about is essentially unbounded as well. An unbounded cache might not be a memory leak in the normal definition, but it's still a big freaking problem.
They ought to use a global LRU memory cache or dump older pages onto disk. There's no reason 30 open tabs should require 30 x 8 = 240 pages worth of memory. - Malakin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I have 26 tabs open, about 20 extensions installed, the browser hasn't been restarted in about week and I'm at 107MB on a 2GB system. The only memory tweak I'm using is max_total_viewers=0.
- asdren, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1whoah, I set browser.sessionhistory.max_total_viewers = 3
I never go 8 pages back, I always just open new tabs
considerable drop in memory use here. - aeoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@r2d7:
I mean Firefox team should extend TalkBack to make it more dynamic and to report memory usage stats in real time (when turned on by the person) without waiting for a crash.
Also, I read Asa's blog and Asa's recent silence on the memory leak problem is deafening. This suggests (at least to me) that at least Asa is really listening to people. I think after a few recent digg articles and one on Slashdot, the team has got an earful already. If nothing gets done after this, it means they are obstinate and beating them over the head won't help. But my money is on the Firefox team eventually solving this issue. Maybe I am crazy. :)
@artanis:
FF wipes the floor with Opera when it comes to freedom and extensions. What will happen to your browser should Opera be purchased by someone? What if they are purchased by a user-hostile company like Microsoft? I mean, it would be kaput for Opera. This can't happen with free/open source software that's backed by a community of people (and a foundation helps too -- it can't be purchased either). Also, where is Opera's Venkman?
Opera could be the leader if it wanted to, but because it chooses to only compete on quality and not on freedom it marginalizes itself in today's market. - ThePhilomath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You have an old version??? It looks perfect for me!
- ThePhilomath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I found an article about this on mozillazine http://kb.mozillazine.org/Browser.sessionhistory.max_total_viewers
"One page will on average take 4MB of memory." Yeah that could add up! - amoeba, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0For me, Firefox never goes above 80MB. It usually hovers around 60MB of RAM.
- dep01, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"What I think many people are talking about however with Firefox 1.5 is not really a memory leak at all. It is in fact a feature."
Bahahahahhahahahahhahahahaaa! - artanis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@aeoo
I agree that the opera community would be boned if someone bought out the company. However in the meantime Opera is better than FF and IE and offers the BEST internet experience, in terms of speed, compatibility and usability. I prefer to use the best product, be it OSS, freeware or other, when it comes to what I'm getting here and now. I'm not going to shoot myself in the foot for the blanket security that comes w/ the OSS ideals.
Also, the current Opera builds aren't going to suddenly stop working if something were to happen to the company. This version of Opera I'm using right now will do just fine for atleast a year I'm sure, and by that point... if FF hasn't caught up, someone else will have. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Okay aeoo is not a tard. You would be amazed though how often responses like "It doesn't happen to me so it must be you" pop up regarding Firefox issues. There is a mindset out there that it is the user's fault, *especially* if the other user you're talking to doesn't experience your problem.
Knowing that it works for someone else isn't really helpful, I'm sure there's people who never had problems with Windows ME for instance ;)
Firefox actually have a program called TalkBack they've licensed, which can report dumps after Firefox crashes. The problem with that is of course that Firefox.exe chewing a couple hundred meg of ram is not a crash. - seekay, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i think it's important to note that he acknowledges that there are genuine memory leaks in firefox.
the author never claims that the caching discussed in this article is the cause for every instance of firefox using lots of memory, so it's a bit nonsensical to go on about a memory leak being attributed to this feature. - whitehatlurker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is terribly old news, even if the blog entry is new. I have had this pref set to 20 for some time now.
That being said, from the discussion, it is apparent that this is helpful to many FF folks. Dugg.
An Opera user. - JustMy2ยข, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0And finally,
This doesn't explain why Firefox ramps up my notebook CPU (2.66 ghz P4) up to 100% usage, forcing my fan to run at high speed, and burning through my battery in a little over an hour.
I like Firefox, but it is a real hog on a notebook. - jo42, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Memory leak or Feature, the feckin' thing crashes at least once a session.
:thumbsdown: - zizzybaloobah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0nope, not an old version, I'm using 1.5.0.1
- ThePhilomath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0something changed through the web developer toolbar maybe?
- ziffel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I do what the guy says, that being I use the Back button a lot, and frankly, FF is still relatively slow at going back to the previous page, sometimes fully loading it again from scratch, which drives me nuts. This is THE area where Opera blows Firefox away in speed. I freakin' love that feature in Opera, but can't let go of FF due to it's indispensable extensions.
- JamesBond, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I already knew that but that doesn't explain why Firefox 1.5 crashes often.
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