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- nreynolds, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18they don't. Anti-Jew speech is illegal in Germany.
Ironically (aka horribly) the Neo-Nazi party is on the rise in Germany. - CamZak, on 10/12/2007, -12/+21Yeah...us Americans are too obsessed with inventing the internet, spelling, and trivial things like that. BTW, we have your 'football' here it's called 'soccer'...it's commonly played by girls.
- dkm201, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16Yeah, racist mobs of Europeans are obviously an awesome thing to brag about
- GameCat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I can't speak for Germans but here in Australia soccer teams took advantage of rivalry between east european ethnic groups to build their support base. Each team adopted a name and associated symbols from the country of origin of their target fan base (serbia, croatia, macedonia, etc) and turned their matches into reruns of old arguments between those countries.
These were issues which most people who emigrated from those countries couldn't give a stuff about, but which a minority used as an excuse for a fight after the game.
The violent and racist aspects were never openly promoted by the clubs but their supporters got the message. To date, soccer clubs here have been banned by the sports national body from having enthnic names and symbols, though some squeek through by retaining some of their old colors.
Its getting better, but I don't doubt its worse in Europe, where all this ***** came from in the first place. - jamesey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I hate when people associate soccer with racism. Racist groups only use soccer as a venue to preach their hate. Tickets are cheap and the bigots get a big audience. 99% of fans attend matches for game. 1% go to spread their word.
This doesnt happen in the USA because tickets to big sporting events are expensive, thus drawing a different crowd of people. Some may still be racist but they're too scared to show it in public. - tdkpetrus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Official anthem:
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit
Für das deutsche Vaterland!
Danach laßt uns alle streben,
Brüderlich mit Herz und Hand!
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit
Sind des Glückes Unterpfand:
Blüh im Glanze dieses Glückes,
Blühe, deutsches Vaterland!
I don't see any Deutschland ueber alles there.
It used to be in the anthem between 1922 and 1945 though. - ddales, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Just to set things straight. Anti-Jewish or anti-anyone-else speech in Germany is not illegal. Free speech in Germany is alive and well under certain conditions.
However, holocaust denial or inciting anti-racial behavior IS illegal. One could argue that racist speech is the same thing as inciting racism but it's technically not.
Also, a lot of people believe that Nazi symbols are illegal in Germany which is not accurate so long as the symbols are used for educational or research purposes.
Concerning the recent voting in Mecklenberg-Vorpommern (used to be in the East). This is not typical of voting in Germany. The NPD did end up with 7.3% which was an increase of 5.9% for that party. The NPD are considered by many to hold Nazi-like beliefs but have very little influence on parliment or anything else for that matter. They are referred to by other political parties as Right-Extremists.
There isn't a whole lot of anti-jewish attitude going on in Germany but there is a strong dislike of people from former Eastern Block countries whether they are jewish or not. The biggest reason for this? There is no minimum wage law in Germany. The former Eastern citizens come to Germany and take a lot of jobs from Germans because they are willing to work for almost nothing. This is very similar to the Mexican issues in the US. Some political groups are pushing for a minimum wage law but the parties with all the power find this to be unfriendly to business and shot it down. - erbpro8, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I think that free speech is the greatest right a human can have. But once you become a paying customer at a sporting event, you have to play by that venue's rules.
Dissent outside of the stadium. And don't turn it into violence. - erbpro8, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4ESPN had a good report on racism that occurs at european football games. Very eye-opening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwpO-nnFY9g - Mandeep, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8about time they step up the fines. if only spain and italy would follow suit. and i wish after one incident theyd move up to bigger punishments like stadium bans etc.
- boohoo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5so, what were the racist chants?
"asylum seeker" - if that it. that is WEAK. Americans do better than that any given Sunday. - tobias-digital, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3In fact the national anthem of germany is the 3rd stanza of "Das Lied der Deutschen" ("the song of the germans"). In the first stanza of "Das Lied der Deutschen" it says "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles ...". See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Lied_der_Deutschen
- GMD1987, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5the fines are so small like 5000 euro
So $6000-7000 for speaking? That's small? When in America, it's free. - bash, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6" Moenchengladbach's Brazilian striker, Kaka..."
What the *****? Kaka is with AC Milan. I think they may have gotten him confused with Kahê, who does play for Moenchengladbach. - ronsanto, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5yeah man, its so hard being white. Seriously, even if someone called you a cracker (never happened to me), would you even flinch? I can't think of a single epithet for white people that has any emotional connotation for me. I hate when people try to fog up the issue of racism with complaints like this. In the grand scheme of things, anti-white racism is an infinitesimal problem, even when just compared with the racism other races have to deal with.
- Mengoxon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5"on the rise" is an exaggeration - in a recent state election (Mecklenburg-Vorpommern), a right-extremist party got into parliament again with 7.3% - something you see in a lot of other European local (not national) elections and something which has been happening on and off in Germany since the first asylum debates started in the 80s.
Not something to be proud off - but this happens in a lot of other countries as well and I have a feeling it would happen in the US, too, if there wasn't a two-party system.
At least Germany has not attacked any sovereign states in the last 60 years... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I hope this don't count all our WWII songs we sing at the England-Germany matches. They are not racist it is historical facts.
edit: p.s. 5-1 - rbvmusic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@boohoo
right because that's so much worse than being bought as slaves, genocide, and extreme prejiduce that made it near impossible for anyone even remotely non-caucasian to get a decent way of living. - dissident, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4if they "neo nazi" party can take power, and make it legal to express free speech, it's a good thing, regardless of your emotionalized position on the subject.
What do they have to hide? Why don't they allow critical discussion of the holocaust? Is their position so weak that they have to make criticizing it illegal? These are the people you support.
Of course I expect this comment to be buried... the holocaust is just one of them "don't touch" issues by the mindless masses. - boohoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1rbvmusic, fwiw i'm not white. but i still feel the list I gave represents modern-day AMERICAN racism. No living American ever owned a slave or participated in genocide. Its time to remove GUILT and lets all just move forward as AMERICANS. People that think like you appear to think, are really doing the equivalent of holding a unjustified grudge against LIVING white people.
- reddevil3, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5What's the point in fining the club? Teams can't really control what their fans chant about.
They may try, but it will probably not work. - mhearne, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1That's not it. It only seems to go one way, and the white folks aren't doing any of the talking.
The ones who are doing the talking, aren't old enough to remember the "bad old days". Well I am, and those idiots don't know what racism is.
I'm really tired of it, it's a useless conversation, and I'm getting out now. I really shouldn't have tried to ask, since it's all learned behaviour anyway.
So long. - ddales, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0No idea why I got dugg down for a true comment. The German National Anthem is commonly referred to as "Deutschland Über Alles", by Germans, and the line is definitely in the Anthem.
- Dodger2876, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0There ever will be stupid people in sports which shout this kind of crap. Most of the German soccer fans are peaceful and against racism. But this is not only a German "problem". Just to mention the German WWII helmets some English fans had during the World Cup 06. If they do not shout dumb things it could be funny.
- boohoo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2rosanto. you have too limited a definition of racism. you've somehow equated racism to simple "name calling". Its not the same thing.
white racism is better identified by job quotas, minority-preferred contracts, black scholarships, and affirmative action. - UberC, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Racist Europeans?? Impossible.
- Mandeep, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3most of the time it doesnt work because the fines are so small like 5000 euro but with bigger fines we'll have to see.
- mhearne, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3Why don't the whites ever get to complain about the ***** who call them names?
Who are the actual racists? - ddales, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3Ironic that "Deutschland über alles" happens to be a prominent line in the German National Anthem.
- satch, on 10/12/2007, -11/+5germany?? racism???
never! - walugi, on 10/12/2007, -17/+11typical ignorant attitude...
and we have Rugby here, it's commonly played by real men - who aren't padded up from head to toe. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -12/+2awesome.... considering i dont give a damn about soccer
- heavensblade23, on 10/12/2007, -16/+6Let it never be said that Germans believe in free speech.
- walugi, on 10/12/2007, -14/+3A bit like how boohoo is bragging about mobs of American racists? No wait, that's everyone who voted for Bush.
- roguescout, on 10/12/2007, -14/+3As long as they aren't chanting, "Deutschland Uber Alles!" and pumping their arm in the air, don't worry about it.
- AngryBacon, on 10/12/2007, -17/+5Its spelled Über.
- hoppdawg, on 10/12/2007, -17/+1...and mathletes
- walugi, on 10/12/2007, -25/+8It's football (the REAL kind) and the passion overwhelms you. Probably hard to understand if your American/Canadian
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