What is Digg?121 Comments
- othersomethings, on 10/12/2007, -2/+58 I try hard not to search domains unless i'm going to register them right then, because this posibility is always lurking in the back of my mind. I always thought I was just being paranoid, but, maybe not.
- shiftt, on 10/12/2007, -6/+35It's not just you. It's been documented before.
When you go to register a domain, the registrar does a whois lookup first to see if the domain is already taken. They do the lookup by asking other registers if the domain is registered with them. Some of these registrars go and register the domain themselves, so when the user wants to pick it up they can't cause it's suddenly taken.... and the only way to get it is to buy if from the registrar, for 10x the cost.
It's really ***** up and ICANN needs to do something about this. - vendull, on 10/12/2007, -2/+29(disclaimer: I work for a registrar)
shiftt: "When you go to register a domain, the registrar does a whois lookup first to see if the domain is already taken. They do the lookup by asking other registers if the domain is registered with them"
This is not true. Registrars communicate directly with the domain registry (e.g.: verisign for .com and .net, afilias for .info etc) via a special protocol (usually EPP), and they ask the registry if the domain is already registered. They do not contact other registrars, in general registrars have no idea what domains are being checked by other registrars. For many TLDs, the whois servers are run by the registry (org, info, biz etc.), and the individual registrars do not even know what domains are being queried via whois. - Washizu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19I just searched "ChstertonHoldingsHasShadyBusinessPractices.com" so let's see if they register that.
- cleverboy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20I run the website FreeWho.com, and I've given this issue a lot of thought, as going through different domain name forums like DomainState.com, you always find out that for the most part, there's more paranoia out there than truth. --But, think about it. If you check a name ONE name at a time... and your whois checker produces a URL result like the following...
>> http://www.freewho.com/index.php?q=testing.com
--Then who is to say where your data travels? On my page, I run Google AdWords. So, for all the queries that come through the URL (queries linked to, or queries done through remote search boxes) will be transmitted to Google as "referrer" links. Likewise, ANYONE running ads or third-party analytics software on their domain checker pages, expose visitor queries to third parties like "counter" services or "sitemeters". On my site I use POST requests, but I do honor GET requests. I trust Google, but the principle is right there. Sites like "DomainTools.com" (formerly Whois.sc), allow for URL based queries like these:
>> http://www.domaintools.com/testing.com
Any third-party running Javascript on their site (like Google Analytics) would have access to all the search requests made in this way. It's a little unnerving to realize that information like this is being spread somewhat unintentionally like this (HTTP_REFERER). - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16scummy registrars do this. The problem is they can put up a stash of cash with verisign and buy as many domains as they want, they can hold them for (I think) 30 days and return them for FREE. So, these people see an interest in a domain and register it, they park some stupid link site on it. before the 30 days are up they drop it and get the refund, the immediately register is again. Over 90% of the domain registrations are this type, it's scummy and it needs to stop.
Making a .25c no-refundable ICANN fee would stop this, because then it ceases to be free.
There are plenty of articles on this. - buss, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Whenever I go domain shopping, I always either use http://www.internic.net/whois.html or http://www.gandi.net/whois . I've had domains bought up before I could buy them with other whois services, but its never happened with those two.
- heavensblade23, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14I'm afraid to ask how you came about this information.
- Handcannons, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13************
Wasn't this similar to the story that came out a while ago where registrars could "option" a domain for a limited amount of time (30 days?) with no financial penalty if they decided they didn't want it, and let it go back into circulation later?
That sort of thing needs to be stopped - I'd have no problem at all if Internic added a $0.50/registration fee that's non-refundable for registrars who option a domain. Would stop them cold.
**************
Bob Parsons from GoDaddy calls that "domain kiting", if the numbers he quotes are true it's such a rampant problem it's amazing anyone can register a domain anymore.
http://www.bobparsons.com/MayKiting.html
Quote: 92.3% of May registrations were kited domains!
Consider this: Just over 35 million names were registered for the month of May. Of those just over 2.7 million were permanent registrations. That means that 92.3% of all domain names registered were part of a scam now known as domain kiting. These names were kept off of the market, they were used to generate search engine revenue – AND BECAUSE OF A LOOPHOLE ICANN REFUSES TO ELIMINATE – those 32.3 million names were used without being paid for. - Pile, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12I remember a few years back, when you'd do a domain check on Network Solutions, it would sometimes say a domain was unavailable when it actually was. Or you'd do a search and the first time it would be available, and then if you hit refresh, ding, it would say not available. I think they had some system in place that if a certain domain was searched for x times, they'd flag it taken and then take it themselves. I am sure other registrars are doing this as well. We all should do searches on completely goofy names and force these idiots to register useless domains.
- DoubtfulSalmon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12The only thing about this that surprises me is that this guy is surprised. This practice has been so obvious (to me at least) for so long that I've always been very careful about letting my intentions wrt a new domain name slip until I'm ready to plonk down the cash right there and then. If you think you might like a particular domain name, the absolute *last* thing you should do is check whois to see if it's available? It seems to me to be patently obvious that whois is ripe for abuse.
Use nslookup or dig to find out what you can about domain names, but don't type the name into any web based search until you're sitting there with your credit card, ready to sign on the dotted line. - heptahedron, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Solution 1: (slightly evil) flood the scumbag's query collection system with a script that does the domain availability query on random domain names (I'd use a combinatorial dictionary approach create plausible names like bobrunningfish.com). When they discover that 99.999% of their squatting gets them squat, they will stop.
Solution 2: (more evil) Send selected queries that involve litigious domain owners (Disney seems like a good candidate). When Chesterton Holdings registers the name, tell the rightful owner about the squatter and let the lawyers run up billable hours for Chesteron. - scottc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11"Verisign could be passing the data on to Chesterton." - my money is on that one.
- zoom1928, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Here's proof they're doing this. On Tuesday I typed "whois alskjdf.com" just to test my Internet connection. Since was was curious after reading this story, I reran whois:
Domain Name: alskjdf.com
Registrant
------------------------------------------------------------
Name: admin -
Organization: Chesterton Holdings
Email: admin@chestertonholdings.com
Address: 655 Flower St
#254
City, Province, Post Code: Los Angeles, CA, 90017
Country: US
Phone: 213-407-1774 - stomicron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Read the article. They incur no costs with this model unless they decide to keep the domain after they "taste" it.
- kindrobot, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14Chesterton is a BAD idea for a business name.
Anyone familiar with the term knows that it means the deposit of huge amounts of human feces on a man's chest.
Not trying to be disgusting, just wanted to point that out. - vikingcoder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Actually, it's ironically appropriate.
Their business is to ***** on people after all. It might be some sort of sick inside joke. - stomicron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8No. Again, read the author's other article (linked to in the first paragraph of this article).
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1974213,00.asp
Domains have a 5-day period during which you can get your money back. These scumbags register the domains, test the traffic, and dump them within five days if they're worthless. - lancefisher, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I suspect it has something to do with the shady ad on the search results page, and the domain name being listed in the querystring.
- striker1211, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Or just make an app click fraud their sites so much it causes the ad provider to suspend them.
- kindrobot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Then stop doing that!
- nogami, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Wasn't this similar to the story that came out a while ago where registrars could "option" a domain for a limited amount of time (30 days?) with no financial penalty if they decided they didn't want it, and let it go back into circulation later?
That sort of thing needs to be stopped - I'd have no problem at all if Internic added a $0.50/registration fee that's non-refundable for registrars who option a domain. Would stop them cold. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I use www.whois.sc (redirects now to domaintools.com) and have for a long time. I have never had a domain preemptively 'stolen'.
- lart, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I wonder if they own one of the ads on cnet, and if they do if those advertisers get the FULL URL that the ad is on. If that's the case then they can find out what domain you are looking at.
- noGoodNamesLeft, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Solution.... think up some *just* plausible domain names ("mynicebluehorse.com", not "zxmxczvbxvc.com"). Search for them through an unreliable source several times. Wait for the domain to be hijacked before you (don't) register it.
During the "grace" period, have several of your friends access the parking website on the newly-registered domain, preferably from several different accounts and with cookies off, so that the registrar doesn't twig what's going on and thinks that they're totally different people. Do this until the grace period expires.
Stop.
Leave them with their crappy domain.
Lather, rinse, repeat. - cafferine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Holy crap!
- mrinternet, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9It would be a REAL SHAME for loads of people to go to the CNet Domain Search page @ http://reviews.cnet.com/4002-6551_7-5116058.html?tag=cnetfd.dir and put in false names just so Chesterton would incur costs though, especially if they then went to those sites and checked up on it a few days later.
- scottc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"This is a five-day period in which a registrar may delete a just-registered domain and get a refund of the registry fee."
That's exactly why I said they had to have a special relationship with a registrar. They can't delete the domains, only a registrar can. The registrar can choose, of course, how much and when to charge for their services. My speculation is that some registrar is charging them nothing up front and then taking a cut if they are successful at reselling rather than charging up front and then refunding 5 days later. - Handcannons, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Since they use an automated process and it doesn't cost them anything even if 99.99% of their registrations don't get anything they still come out ahead and won't quit.
- joshjoneswas, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Talk about ironic. I swear a few hours ago I was talking to my buddy on the phone about this. I thought I was being paranoid, too, "othersomethings"! You aren't alone on that one. In my case tonight I checked availability for a name on godaddy and it was there and ready for me. I came back 2 hours later after thinking about it and it was taken! I'm savvy enough to know I didn't mistype it. It was listed on internic as still available.... I'll see tomorrow when they update their database if godaddy took it!
I guess just trying to goto a website via the webbrowser is still a good preliminary way to test a domain, then do your research and decide if you want, then when you are ready to buy...go to buy it at that moment in time! Don't try to see if it exists through any whois searches! - Neg127, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4There is a very long discussion about just this subject over at DNSstuff.com. You can take a look at it right here.
http://forums.dnsstuff.com/tool/post/dnsstuff/vpost?id=943423
They found lots of information about a company who is hijacking domain names in a way. Its a very interesting conservation to follow. - shumacher, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm glad. ArmorAll handshakes are gross.
Ugh. - superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Yes but the legal angle shows some promise - it's free to kite the domain but if lawyers start contacting them it starts costing them at least some effort, and a bit of money.
- NikZ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I whois'ed "myfatear.com" thru CNet after reading this article the other day, just re-checked today and sure enough:
Domain Name: MYFATEAR.COM
Registrar: NAMEKING.COM, INC.
Whois Server: whois.nameking.com
Referral URL: http://www.nameking.com
Name Server: NS11.CHESTERTONHOLDINGS.COM
Name Server: NS1.CHESTERTONHOLDINGS.COM
Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
EPP Status: clientDeleteProhibited
EPP Status: clientUpdateProhibited
EPP Status: clientTransferProhibited
Updated Date: 23-Jul-2006
Creation Date: 23-Jul-2006
Expiration Date: 23-Jul-2007
And of course there's now a squat-site published at myfatear.com, with a domain enquiry back to Chesterton. - Brahma, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4May the domain name squatters burn..My company had to pay more than a million dollar to get the domain name a part of which could have come to me..$$$ loss :(
- whiterajah, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"chestertonbastards.com – is available. Click to register."
- stomicron, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"The only thing about this that surprises me is that this guy is surprised."
I agree. Especially from the same guy who brought us this article:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1974213,00.asp - iBrent, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Chesterton did that to me three times! ***** bastards... They sure as hell got some rude phone calls when I tracked them down.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3So now that we've figured this out, how about we use the digg effect to get the word out
...In the future I see domain squatting becoming illegal. There's no real reason not to make it illegal. - whiterajah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I can confirm another one from the day of this posting, 'chestertonbastards.com'. These guys are definitely swiping the domains!!!
Domain Name: chestertonbastards.com
Registrant
------------------------------------------------------------
Name: admin -
Organization: Chesterton Holdings
Email: admin@chestertonholdings.com
Address: 655 Flower St
#254
City, Province, Post Code: Los Angeles, CA, 90017
Country: US
Phone: 213-407-1774
Creation Date: 07/23/06
Expiration Date: 07/23/07
Domain Status: ACTIVE
Domain Servers
ns1.chestertonholdings.com
ns11.chestertonholdings.com
Registration Provided By: NAME KING INC.
Contact: info@nameking.com
Abuse Desk Email Address: abuse@nameking.com - cleverboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@johnbmull: "Very evidently this is a CyberSquatter with 225,866 other sites hosted on the server as asdfj.com!!"
This may stun you... but the domain name servers for that name are owned by NameView.com. They're a registrar. When you register a new domain name and do not tell them to do otherwise, most registrars set the DNS to their own servers. So... approximately 225,866 of Nameview's customers take advantage of this. It's also used for DNS management and web services like "redirect" too. As I said earlier, this topic really brings out the paranoia in people. I remember back in the day, a company I was working with said they were "thinking" about registering Connect.com, and that it was available. After spitting out my coffee and rushing to a whois lookup, it showed that it had been registered recently... but now gone.
I've had a good number of friends lose domain names for an assortment of reasons, either before they registered it, or even after. It's a jungle out there. I just try to do my part to pass out machetes. - Media, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"What I've wondered is the price they are paying for these domain names. They much get a huge discount for buying in bulk. There is no way any squatting company could afford to pay what the general public does."
The domain registrar they are suing is NameKing.com, which I am 99% sure is their own private registrar.
I am also pretty sure that the company "Chesterton Holdings" is run by the same company that runs DomainSponsor.com, which is a domain monetization program.
The two companies are both using this registrar, are both based out of Los angeles, and all domains owned by "Chesterton Holdings" are parked at DomainSponsor only leads you to this conclusion.
They pay $6.25 ($6.00 to Versign and $0.25 to ICANN) ONLY IF THEY DECIDE to keep the domain (they have 5 days to test traffic, etc.) The $6.25 price is the price that the registrars get, but most registrars such as GoDaddy, mark that price up to make profit. - felchdonkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You are all foul, and I love you all.
- cdawzrd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Do you have any idea at all what this article is referring to?
- Llan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3But if they put up Ads, they would have to pay for them if they get clicked? And then they would keep the doamin because it would be a success? Only guessing :)
- Atomic1fire, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3its called being payed to keep your mouthshut at least thats what i think
- scottc, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Yes, and that means that they have some special relationship with a registrar who is registering the names for them at no cost and then probably getting a commission when they are resold. I hope we find out which registrar it is.
- atbnet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This would work if they paid for the domains but others had said they can be fully refunded in xx amount of days. Besides one payment for an extortion domain can pay off for many other domains that don't get purchased.
- suldar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I actually know someone who thinks domain squatting is a legitimate business. It's gotten ridiculous trying to find a domain name now. I wouldn't mind if people were actually using the domain names but there not. It's almost like trying to pick a username on AOL or something now. Let's see:
mypetlizard.com = taken
draziltepym.com = taken
mypetlizard111111.com = available
5 minutes later...
mypetlizard111111.com = stolen! - StatiK69, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'm not surprised about stuff like this going on. I was shopping for a new domain name a few weeks ago; took a break and got side tracked, came back the next day and domain names that I had searched had been registered.
Luckily, I had thought of a better one and purchased it when I saw it was free; I thought it was a bit odd that all of these domains previously free were mysteriously taken. I think all of this press about "net neutrality" and everything doesn't really matter much since companies like the one mentioned in the article will always take advantage.
Just my 2 cents,
http://www.helldeskforum.com
And I'm amazed it wasn't taken; found it was free and 8 hours later decided to grab it. -
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