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US government sues Missouri officials to squash state's subpoena of AT&T.

today.reuters.com — The federal government wants to be able to know everything you do, but they don't want anyone to know about their actions. They are willing to argue both sides of a case to prevent citizens and states from finding out what AT&T has been doing in those secret rooms.

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  • Falldog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+43This is when someone steps in and sues the federal government.
    • zirtbow, on 10/12/2007, -14/+7Yes, i'm sure that would work real well. Although I wouldn't put it past the EFF to try something like that.

      On the flip side though this whole case seems very intresting as it would probably mean a lot to some of that data gathering stuff going on. I'm almost more interested in this case than I am of the Shawn Hogan vs RIAA case.
    • illynova, on 10/12/2007, -0/+24You mean like the EFF suing AT&T (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepting_vs._AT%26T)?
    • rickst13, on 10/12/2007, -17/+2bah... nm
    • shanimal, on 10/12/2007, -18/+2Bury this- I replied to the wrong comment :(
    • dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13And you know what I think ***** me off the most about all of this? The fact that AT&T doesn't address our obvious concerns. The government doesn't address our concerns. It's as though they don't hear us. I know I'd at least feel a little better hearing the blatant lies coming straight from the horse's mouth.

      It just screams to me, "We own you, so what the hell are YOU going to do about it?"
    • definiteform, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4They're guilty of it. This "we can't comment" ***** and suing individual states is a very obvious admittance of guilt. They are trying to keep a lid on it so the public doesn't get angry.

      There's no solution to this because the government is infallible and can't be sued, and even if it is sued uses that state secrets *****. ***** the United States of America; and just to be clear this ***** started in the Clinton era. There is no right side; the obvious answer is to shun the entire system. At least that's my view.

      -Not a liberal American
  • interiot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Transparency and openness goes both ways. It's sort of inevitable that the government will use increasing amounts of information in their law enforcement and self-defense purposes. However, by the same token, they can't really be that secretive about their actions... the information will get out one way or the other.
    • bugsy187, on 10/12/2007, -0/+23The government isn't going to open the record out of the kindness of their heart. We have to force them to do it.

      I don't agree with your comment about transparency going both ways. Citizens like you and I have a right to privacy. Big business isn't a citizen and holds power over our lives. They should be transparent, especially when illegal activity has been caught. We have a right to know what they're up to. It's weird and creepy for big business and government to be collecting info. about us. They claim it's for "terrorism" or "protecting legitimate business interests." Give me a break. It's about concentrating power even more and once they have it they'll just use it in whatever arrogant fashion they choose. They'll leverage it to take a little more and crack down on dissidents or whatever. Hasn't that been the trend so far?
  • DurangoSteve, on 10/12/2007, -34/+1Silly johndi, just don't call terrorist's and you will be OK. And don't be scarred of those "secret rooms"
    • rabiddogma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+29Yeah that's what all totalitarian govenments say--"don't be afraid of those secret rooms" or "don't be afraid of those secret camps" or "don't pay any attention to that man behind the curtain" or "it's all for your own good."

      Umm correct me if I'm wrong but, free, open and democratic societies aren't supposed to have "secret rooms" that we aren't supposed to be afraid of.
  • venir, on 10/12/2007, -3/+63This is unbelievable. All of our civil rights are slowly being taken away and it seems like people are just sitting idly by as we lose our liberties. The only terrorists I am worried about are the ones who have taken over our Government.
    • bugsy187, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26It's interesting you call Bush and Co. terrorists. They are and I agree with you. The term terrorism used to mean a government using fear and violence to control it's people. When the Reaganites came in office they connected the term to civilian militants fighting governments instead. There's something very hypocritical about this. On top of this many of the current Bush admin. are recycled Reaganites.
    • MikeCerm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+28Furthermore, it's our tax dollars that fund all these fishing expeditions. Regardless of whether or not it's legal/constitutional, I don't want the government spending billions of dollars recording every our every phone call, reading Myspace profiles, cataloging IP addresses, logging bank transactions, and then compiling all of that info on the *chance that they might find some pattern that leads to some terrorists... someday... somewhere...

      They say that it's making us safer, but if that's true, why haven't they caught anyone? If they're not catching, prosecuting, and convicting "evil-doers" on a daily basis, then what is the purpose of all these programs? They're just a waste of money.

      The government's casting a very wide net hoping, without justification, to catch something. It's going to look especially bad for this administration when, after wasting billions of dollars violating the constitution, the next domestic terrorist attack happens anyway. When you cast a wide net, the little fish still get through.
    • rabiddogma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Hell a lot of them cut their teeth in the Nixon administration--what does that tell you?
  • virmundi, on 10/12/2007, -12/+55I am not a leftist, hippie. I voted for bush twice (lesser of two evils both times). However, I think there is good grounds to impeach him. He steps on numerous constitutional rights.
    • AwRy108, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18Well said, man. Well said.
    • pr0t0, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16
      @Virmundi
      Like Chris Rock, I tend to be conservative about some things, liberal about others. I voted for Gore and Kerry (lesser of two evils from my perspective). I'm curious (not trolling) as to whether you think Gore or Kerry would have been the better choice now, given the nature of hindsight. Do you feel GWB has helped or hurt the Republican Party, or has it changed your feelings about it. Finally, do you think this is the beginning of a shift in the GOP agenda? If so, do you fear that?

      Again, not trolling. I'm just trying to understand the perspective of someone who's voted the republican ticket. This discussion probably belongs under the World section and not Tech-Security, but here we are.
    • drakethegreat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Unfortunately you are one of the few who stays up to date on things there are people who voted for bush and those who didn't that still don't understand the problems associated with this sort of thing. They buy that national security line everytime its used. Its just as bad as using "remember 9/11" everytime people start asking questions that hurt.
    • bugsy187, on 10/12/2007, -13/+6@virmundi

      I agree that Bush should be impeached. Your Cartmanesque low blow was unnecessary, though. It says "I'm ignorant" more than "I'm credible."
    • elephantdog, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6@pr0t0 Owned by the same hand. Vote third party.
    • rabiddogma, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13I'd rather be a smelly leftist hippy than admit I voted for Bush twice. Come on--voting for him once is almost forgiveable, but by the time the second chance came around you had to be blind deaf and stupid not to see this coming.

      But at least you are starting to wake up. Need another cup of joe?
    • LucianSolaris, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19Bush really wasn't the 'lesser' of the two evils. Bush and Kerry were the same people. Skull and Bones, CFR, controlled by the globalists and world bankers. Voting either would NOT have made a difference!

      The Republicans and Democrats are two sides of the same coin, the same management team.

      I will admit, in the name of politics, i did support Bush on ONE SINGLE ISSUE:
      his administrations support for the idea that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right.

      Always figured that if a revolt is inevitable with both sides, pick the one that supports your right to own the tools for such a revolt.
    • virmundi, on 10/12/2007, -4/+81st, the hippie comment was just to deflect the automatic -diggs because I said something negative about Bush. I've heard those insults thrown at people with ideas different from Bush.

      2nd, I still would have voted him in. I don't think Gore could have handled the pressure of the 9/11 attack. I just simply don't trust Kerry, wait I do, no I don't. Just kidding, he doesn't seem to have a moral or ethical compass.

      As for hurting the Republican party, I think they've been doing that to themselves lately. Anti-flag bu ring, etc.

      Those are my two-reply-cents.
    • deadlinegrunt, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0@virmundi

      You say that Bush should be impeached yet we have 2/3 of the government that aren't doing anything about it as well...Either by voting measures down or impeachment. Seems to me like the only people who have a problem here is this small minority of people on the Internet. I am very curious how this November plays out but then I'm not expecting anything - the majority seem to find this acceptable.
    • badbox, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3"I agree that Bush should be impeached. Your Cartmanesque low blow was unnecessary, though. It says "I'm ignorant" more than "I'm credible."

      Actually his statement was fine. He got the same point across whether he used what he said or different words. No need to nitpick.
    • rabiddogma, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8QUOTE: 2nd, I still would have voted him in. I don't think Gore could have handled the pressure of the 9/11 attack. I just simply don't trust Kerry, wait I do, no I don't. Just kidding, he doesn't seem to have a moral or ethical compass. ::QUOTE::

      Did you ever think that there is ample evedence that we might not have even had a 9/11 attack if Gore were president? I mean all the evedence shows that Bush was at best a sleep at the switch when all the former Clinton people were screaming their heads off that we were about to be attacked. That alone should have made you think twice before voting for him again. PLUS there is the fact that Bush's use of the 9/11 tragedy for political gain is simply discusting. I mean never mind the fact that everything he has ever touched has turned to *****, he has no experience, nothing qualifies him to lead besides the fact that his name is Bush, and he can barely speak english.
    • vistic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15"I just simply don't trust Kerry, wait I do, no I don't. Just kidding, he doesn't seem to have a moral or ethical compass."

      And you think Bush and his fellow reactionist/totalitarian republicans have morals?

      Why? Because they are willing to use gay marriage as a tool to manipulate people's bigotry to win elections? Because stem cell research is "murder"? Because one American life is equal to 1,000 brown-skinned foreigner lives?

      These are the people who are consumed by greed, want to squash the poor people, create an economic elite, have disdain for science and education, don't care about helping others, will manipulate people's religious faith, have no moral qualms about killing thousand upon thousands of foreign civilian lives including children, yet will say stem cell research is murder, who cheat at elections, who think you should have no personal liberties or privacy, will sell out your American jobs overseas to increase corporate profits, and who try to conceal evidence of their crimes by any underhanded method necessary... I mean the list goes on and on and on and on....

      They're corrupt.

      I know Bush is trying to create the image that he is a good Christian and that he is "strong American moral values"... but that's all propaganda. If you think Jesus Christ would approve of the kind of people that Bush, et al are then I think you don't understand anything Jesus taught.

      Moral compass, indeed. Ethics, indeed.
    • p1mpjuice, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@dead

      Have you checked the ratings at all?

      Last time I checked, the government was supposed to be for the PEOPLE, not the other 2/3 of the governement. It really _shouldn't_ matter what the rest of the government wants, unfortunately, this isn't the case anymore.
    • LucianSolaris, on 10/12/2007, -8/+159/11 was real in the sense that things got destroyed, but it was a fraud in that 'terrorists' in caves did it.

      WTC 1, 2, and 7 were the first modern buildings to come down due to fire and in such a short timespan. No plane ever hit the pentagon (it was a missile), and United Flight 93 never 'crashed'. It unloaded in cleveland and was shot down over Penn.

      The point of staging 9/11? Put us into a perpetual and unwinnable war on terrorism. As long as politics and humanity lives with each other, there will always be 'terrorism', be it from real terrorists or from governments purpetrating such attacks. This isn't Bush or Gore, this is higher. Think Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Comission, Bilderburg, Order of Death (Skull & Bones), World bankers, etc.

      9/11 was a FRAUD, learn about it in this video:
      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1519312457137943386&q=Loose+Change+2
    • LucianSolaris, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15GET OFF THE PARTISAN HORSE!

      It isn't just Bush, or Kerry, Republican, or Democrat. It is BOTH. Both are one in the same! They have slight differences but they have one thing in common up at the top, they are both controlled by a globalist elite who see no wrong in killing for more power. The politics in this country is a horse and pony show!

      WAKE UP AMERICA! EACH TIME YOU VOTE FOR A MAJOR PARTY CANDIDATE TO A MAJOR PARTY, YOU ARE VOTING TO FURTHER RAPE YOUR LIVES, LIBERTIES, AND LIVELYHOODS!
    • deadlinegrunt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@p1mpjuice

      You seem to think I don't get it - now re-read my comment (THIS TIME WITHOUT ASSUMING I AM PRO-BUSH OR REPUBLICAN) and remember it this November if _your_ comment is heartfelt - don't give it word play on an internet forum.

      Bush is a figure head of the EXECUTIVE branch. You still have the two other branches that let things become the way they are - REMEMBER THIS in November when one of those other two branches* comes up for scrutiny of "THE PEOPLE" that you spoke of in your comment...That was my point.

      *As an exercise you get to research what the other two branches are. I gave you 1 of 3. As a bonus you get two see how two branches shape the third if you research properly.
    • PrayerNeeder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1GWB definitely helped the republican party, but not as much as Kerry would have hurt the perception of Catholics in America.

      Gore, I don't know about. If I knew then what I know now, I probably would have voted for Gore. But it wouldn't have made any difference - I'm from Texas, so Bush's carrying the state was a given.
  • Horseshoe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27It's obvious AT&T fully opened there phone records and lines up to be tapped by the government without a warrant that is legally necessary. (It don't matter if you are the prez, you need to serve some time for this one buddy...)

    They just want help so that folks don't leave them because AT&T didnt fight the privacy fight for their customers.

    If you have AT&T, I would suggest you leave them and get another carrier. They dont care about your privacy, and it shows.

    • drakethegreat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Except its worse then that because they control a lot of key bridges on the internet which means its not just about phones, they can easily give the NSA access to most US internet communications and its been said that they already have packet sniffers setup.
    • roeboedog, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Everyone keeps saying LEAVE AT&T. What if you live in an area where the only local phone service is AT&T, and worse they are the only broadband provider too.

      How do you suppose I leave?

      Those of us who live in small to medium towns are stuck with what we have.
    • deadlinegrunt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@roeboedog

      Sometimes a cause is not convenient and sacrifices, simply stated in black & white, HAVE to be made. Not saying that you should boycott AT&T *however* I am saying that if you feel passionate enough to make a statement - do it, otherwise don't join the fight. (You did ask the question, "how are you suppose to leave?")
  • digduggler, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Who watches the watchmen?
    • DurangoSteve, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15Us.
    • digduggler, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27Yeah, that's going real well...
    • dartmanx, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8Noone. They can't find a director to make the movie. However, you should still be able to find the trade paperback.
    • Otto, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4>>>"Who watches the watchmen?"

      I dunno. Superman?
    • JimXugle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Sorry... to busy watching these traceroutes... hey... they're all going through the same IP add-

      *Transmission terminated. Connection reset by client.*
    • kbtry414, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Sam Vimes!
  • kilofox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Digg needs a privacy section. The jest of the OP has very little to do the technical aspects of security and more to do with politics and privacy.
    • eggo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3nitpick; jest means"A frolicsome or frivolous mood: spoken in jest" the word you are looking for is gist "The central idea; the essence". Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine--I'm not a spelling Nazi I swear! I dugg your comment, because I agree we need a section for privacy issues.
    • kilofox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Thanks .. I knew that... my fingers didnt.!!!
  • AWBoy666, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2What ever happened to the state secrets stuff in the NSA lawsuit related to the secret rooms? Wasn't there supposed to be a decision on that a while ago? Someone please tell me!
  • wvdavis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11*AT&T commercial* "My company is in seventeen counties... and I can say delivered to the NSA, I mean secure in every one of them."
  • jsusanka, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16good anything to get this crap out in the open and let more people know about is good

    this spy crap really has to stop - meanwhile our borders are a joke but lets spy on citizens -

    when I saw enemy of the state I thought it could never happen but I think we are there.
    all in the name of terrorism

    can't wait till the current regime is out - 2008 can't get her quick enough - then we don't have to listen to George W try to talk.
    • dartmanx, on 10/12/2007, -11/+12You think Hillary Clinton is going to be much better, though?
    • wvdavis, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12You know his press corps just cringes every time he opens his mouth.

      example ~ "Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB/GYN's aren't able to practice their love with women all across the country."—Sept. 6, 2004, Poplar Bluff, Mo.
    • drakethegreat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11The reality is that we have no clue if either party would be any better when it comes to this *****. Remember even though you shuffle the top cards of the deck every 4 years, theres still the reality that most everyone in the NSA, CIA, FBI are going to be the same people until they retire.
    • seeSharp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I agree with Lewis Black about how we should select our next president: "When the winner of American Idol is selected, that person is immediately blind-folded and handed a dart that they throw at a large map of the United States. Wherever the dart lands is where we send the monkey. We take a monkey and strap a parachute to him, load him in an airplane and when the airplane is over the spot on the map where the dart landed, we shove the little ***** out of the plane. The first person's hand that the monkey grabs is the president!"

      Go ahead, mod me down but it's worth a chuckle anyway...
    • fadedwranglers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It doesn't matter who is in office. The same machine runs it all. I vote, yet I do not believe in the end that it really matters.
  • optimus008, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3We should fight back with spam, just fill up AT&T with so much useless info , that is cost them so much to keep doing what their doing. Or Just have everyone that's a AT&T member to cancel there service.
    • FenderGeek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"We should fight back with spam, just fill up AT&T with so much useless info , that is cost them so much to keep doing what their doing."

      I thought we were already doing that. Isn't that what the Digg comment section is for?
  • JimXugle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4http://torpark.nfshost.com/
  • markman07, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2Dupe - http://digg.com/politics/Boing_Boing_Courts_dismiss_one_AT_T_spying_suit_and_US_gov_sues_Missouri
  • untzboy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11. Boing Boing? 2. I love my Quest
  • ajck, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18I don't mean this to be a troll or offensive in any way, but I must say for us in other countries (me in the UK, which I know is nearly as bad), we are constantly suprised by how draconian your government and it's agencies are, and how much your "land of the free" is nowhere near as free anymore.

    I hope for all our sakes you get that freedom back, through civil rights, activism, legal action or whatever. There's common sense, there's anti-terrorism, there's patriotism (all well and good) and then there's taking the ***** and I fear the US Gov is now in an advanced state of the latter....
    • fac3less, on 10/12/2007, -11/+5Nearly as bad ajck?
      Are you ***** kidding child?

      Go out and look at the cameras on every one of your street corners.
      The UK, CA and US -- if you're in them. Run.
    • DurangoSteve, on 10/12/2007, -16/+3Sorry , no freedom lost here. And we did save yours, remember?
    • optimus008, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6You are so right, everyone I know form other countries don't see the USA as they used to.
      I my self have look at movie out of this country to the UK or Germany (my girlfriend want us to move to Croatia, that's where she is from, but what I would do there I don't know).
    • fadedwranglers, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1We in America still have more freedoms than any other country in the world....but that is changing daily. It is only a matter of time before the scales tip the other way.
  • DurangoSteve, on 10/12/2007, -14/+3Wow so many diggers live there lives in such fear. I think they should have a nice drink and relax. So many silly gooses out there. lol
    • elephantdog, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Dugg for "silly goose". But yeah, you guys should just chill until after you're sent to the Gulags.
  • frostcrow, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7So the federal government is bought and paid for by ( Net Neutrality / NSA Spying / Corp Buyouts creating monopolies). Now the individual states seem to be going to bat for us at least some are anyway in regards to Net Neutrality and the NSA Spying.

    I wonder if the politicians at the state level actually give a damn or if this is just their way of reminding the huge corporations that they need to donate a little more cash at the State level of the political process.
  • osbjmg, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Kudos to Missouri for having some balls. States rights are our last line of defense.
    • DurangoSteve, on 10/12/2007, -9/+2Help , help I'm being repressed!
    • socbret, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Best state in the country all around...period.
  • jellygraph, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Arg, this is absolutely insane!
  • Lane, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13Geeze, its a bout time to secede again
  • adaptdev, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2They aren't doing this for "Terror Watch". Anyone who does anything is usually using
    lo-tech means. That's why all of this is irrelevant. The NSA is full of it.

    This is tantamount to big business using Government to get trade secrets
    from competition, nothing more.
  • bugsy187, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"The U.S. government, citing national security concerns, on Tuesday sued Missouri officials for demanding that AT&T Inc. (T.N: Quote, Profile, Research) disclose whether it gave customer data to the government's spying program."

    AT&T probably did give up customer data to the spying program. Why else would the government sue? Sure, it's not proof, but the signs look strong.
  • macewan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3don't use AT&T and tell everyone you know
    • rabiddogma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Yeah like a lot of us even have a choice. Do you realize that a lot of their competitors are just reselling ATT's bandwidth? They own the pipes baby.
    • grendelwraith, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5You mean the tubes?
  • Clemenceau, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2It's not like the Government is listening in on your calls, they're just seeing who called whom.
    • Bhima, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4*****
    • FirefighterBlu3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2and you .. trust the government? hey. i've got a nice bridge to sell you. ;-/
  • MrUnderbridge, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3"I'd rather be a smelly leftist hippy than admit I voted for Bush twice. Come on--voting for him once is almost forgiveable, but by the time the second chance came around you had to be blind deaf and stupid not to see this coming."

    Well, the problem is that the Democrats became complacent in 2004 and believed that they could ram any candidate they chose down the throat of an America that was displeased by Bush. They learned that being patronizing and condescending to the voting populace will result in defeat. I voted for Bush the first time, and considered them equally appalling the second time.

    I'm anxious to see what different approach the Democrats take next time, specifically what their strategy is to win Florida and Ohio.
    • rabiddogma, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5So you voted for a president who was asleep at the switch and allowed the worst attack on American soil to happen, is spending us into a deep ditch of debt, has violated international law and lied us into a quagmire of a war, is corupt beyond understanding, has fascistic tendencies, violates the constitution, uses the dead as political props, thinks nothing of the distruction he has caused, helps his corporate cronies rip off the American tax payer with war profiteering schemes, because the Democrats weren't "perfect." There is logic for you. That's kinda like going down with the Titanic because the life boats weren't heated.
    • kbarrett, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1----
    • kbarrett, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Bush is doing such a *bang up* job, do Democrats really have to worry about a strategy?
    • fadedwranglers, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1No....he probably voted for the lesser of two evils while wishing that he had been given a better choice.
  • ChessPoker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I could be naive, but the Democrat-Republican duopoly's days are numbered.
  • genen, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1Why does any story at all on Digg now end up having conspiracy comments. Really, you can't read more than a couple pages of comments without finding some conspiracy theory.

    Digg is loosing it's shine - Bring back digg 1.0!
    • FirefighterBlu3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5well .. if we had government v2.0 we wouldn't need digg v1.0 ^_^ things are only a conspiracy when there is no hard evidence.
    • critic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1...and as you look around you and up at the sky, ask yourself has it always been *this* way.

      If you find yourself saying, why yes it always *has* been this way.

      I would inquire just how close to the cellphone tower slash mind control machine from where you live.

      I use to laugh at the tin-foil hat crowd, now I'm taking *them* seriously and laughing at what is trying to pass for reality.

      Regards
    • shaitand, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Just because there was a movie called "conspiracy theory" that painted all those who believe in any conspiracy or suspect one as nut jobs does not make it so. The government has admitted to a large number of conspiracies over the course of American history. Globally there have been even more.

      The truth is that there are conspiracies, that is a simple fact. Claiming that bush was replaced by an alien clone without evidence is one thing. Claiming that the underlying motives of the politicians running our political evidence when all outside evidence supports your claim is simply acknowledging a liklihood. There is nothing about the US government that makes them inately altruistic and good.
  • wtf00, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2heh - we are over here bitching and moaning about this but what different does make it? because media isn't reporting this in the locals news, most the people don't come on digg and read our concern, either they get there news from tv or newspaper.. or they know about it and they just don't give a flyin' *****, because they are too busy worry about gas price and tax break or how much they going to take out of my pay check this week and there beef with mexicans. only choice we have that know about it is encrypt our stuff or some voice encryption *****.
    • goldenbb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You really give the American public too much credit. They're really thinking things like "should I get the peach shade of blush or the amber mist?" Or, if they're a man, "Wow, look at that ass!"
    • wtf00, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Well I could have added the stuff to... *cough I go the beach and say same thing "damn, she has nice ass" hahaha.
  • FirefighterBlu3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3DurangoSteve, no offense, but are you a paid shill? No freedoms lost? I'm trying most hard to refrain from making snide comments about intentional ignorance being bliss and head in the sand sort of things..

    It's truly astounding the energy some people will expend dancing to avoid acknowledging the facts. You can throw document after document at them showing black and white evidence and they refuse to accept it.
    • DurangoSteve, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I wish that I could get paid for this. But I just don't see the endless parade of " people" who's rights have been taken away. I am just a hard working, tax paying, family guy, who loves America, warts and all. My parents grew up under a real totalitarian government. So maybe I might have a little more experience with lack of freedoms than other people. I eagerly await your intelligent reply....
    • fadedwranglers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Quote"I wish that I could get paid for this. But I just don't see the endless parade of " people" who's rights have been taken away. I am just a hard working, tax paying, family guy, who loves America, warts and all. My parents grew up under a real totalitarian government. So maybe I might have a little more experience with lack of freedoms than other people. I eagerly await your intelligent reply...."Quote

      If you wait for the lack of freedoms to mount they will lead to that totalitarian government your parents had to deal with.
  • htmlforms, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0In our modern US era, name a time that the government has hurt us as a people while it was trying to protect us. You're crazy if you're more worried about the government looking for terrorist activity, then the actual terrorists themselves. Go be an American in Iraq- let that government protect you.
    • goldenbb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2As an entire people, maybe not, but target groups, certainly.

      Would you count all the anti-militia stuff that went on in the 1990s? Would Waco count? How about what happened to the Bonus Marchers? Japanese internment?
  • SmeRndmGy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3What ever happened to the national anthem? The land of the free and the home of the brave. Here we are giving away our freedom because we are afraid. Good to see that there are still people who want to do something about this before it is too late. If you don't do anything to stop this government from violating our rights, you might as well be helping them.
  • mongrolia, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1The reason they don't want anyone to know what information was gathered is because all information was gathered. They took info on every single customer that AT&T has and have made profiles on each and every person in that mound of data. I'm sure that by now they have identified several possible serial killers, numerous sexual deviants, and thousands of voices of dissent against this administration and it's entire ***** war. Big Brother is preparing for the big shift. They are gearing up for as former Pres George Bush said "The New World Order". I already assume I have been marked as a voice of dissent myself but they can't do anything about it.... yet. But if certain bills pass and become laws you could see America becoming more like a Fascism and less like the Democracy it was meant to be. Allow the government to limit your freedoms and you allow them to own you. You may not see us on the news but there are those of us that protest this war on a daily basis and are arrested over and over again for no other reason than trying to voice our own opinions. Of course if it's not on TV most people don't even believe it happens. And it seems all of the news networks are paid to skew the opinions of their viewers toward the governemnt's side, which of course is the side where the rich and powerful rule and the rest should just go along with it... or else.
    • ionlyneed12, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2paranoid much?
    • DurangoSteve, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1@ mongrolia, you are a silly goose! There I said it and I don't care if they ban me, and you know who "they" are. The sky is not falling. America will NEVER become a totalitarian country, as long as there are people who care, like you and me. Go have a drink, kiss someone you love, and share a nice meal with them. Trust me you'll feel better. Then get back to bashing our president, with no fear in your heart. It's all gonna be OK. smile.
  • Mneitzel, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Question, if each digg member brought one share of stock, could we control AT&T? If we could, we could open records and start having some real fun. I wonder what we could get AT&T lobbyists to do?

    And talking politics, do we start a DIGG political party.....

    PS: Hi to the NSA ( I know you are reading this)
  • FuManchu, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Observations:

    If voting could change the system, voting would be illegal.

    The Federal Gov't is run by the ideology of W. C. Fields: "Never give a sucker an even break." The problem for Americans is that it is a land overwhelmingly made up of suckers.
  • WRALC, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Government's State Secret defense is based on a lie.
    http://www.unknownnews.net/0624-2.html
  • SmartITGuy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0With the current Adinistration (George W Bush)'s campaign to ram freedom and democracy into the Middle East - what with the erroding freedoms and privacy protections happening in the US, it won't be long before the entire Middle East has more freedoms than the US.

    I mourn/cry for you my poor American brothers!
  • donna34, on 05/04/2008, -0/+0http://www.investmentsandincome.com/
  •  

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