What is Digg?105 Comments
- kaoru, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"The system uses BitLocker Drive Encryption through a chip called TPM (Trusted Platform Module) in the computer's motherboard.
It is partly aimed at preventing people from downloading unlicensed films or media."
A chip on my motherboard? And how long until this chip actually stops you installing anything but Windows? *sigh* - spaceman0, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"..I agree with TheNativeRaver, this will obviously be exploited.."
"Any "backdoor" that is made available for so-called official purposes has the potential of being hacked for other purposes"
The government is the biggest exploiter and hacker here. Why does everyone assume that whatever govt does is going to be ethical? The computer is the extension of your mind and this is a backdoor to your thoughts. Remember, everyone of you is a terror suspect right now, regardless of race color or nationality. Wake up! - Lewie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Hahah UK, at least the US has the CONSTITUTION to protect its people! Right to Privacy (a penumbra right) and No Unlawful Search and Seizure. Oh, wait.....
Time for a rebellion I guess. The Western world hasn't had one of those in a while. - acousticiris, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"There's good reason to believe (both from conventional reasoning/logic and from what I've heard) that this type of thing already exists for the US Govt and is already available in [at least] XP."
It's totally unnecessary in XP. Getting by EFS is a zero-effort job. Brute forcing the admin password is a zero-effort job. Getting into the OS from an outside computer, for unpatched machines, is a zero-effort job. And for patched machines...well, maybe a little more effort, sometimes.
XP's design intent put security as the thing that "you check after someone else finds something wrong". I'm not picking on Microsoft for this... this is how *most* people write code. Security as an afterthought. Vista appears to be written with security in mind, but don't be fooled. It's not *your* security they have in mind, it's the security of "Big Content" (can we just start calling them that instead of RIAA/MPAA/BSA/(insert acronym for licensing body in every other country) ...).
Vista is designed to be secure like the XBOX is designed to be secure. Secure from you messing with it, or at least secure enough to require you to mod-chip it.
Though I believe this is somewhat off topic, everyone keeps asking why Microsoft is being so public with all of this DRM stuff. And why they're even putting it in the OS since it is so against what their customers actually want ...
Here's a few reasons:
1. They percieve that they have nothing to lose by it. In fact, the more open they are in disclosing these items, the less you will have the opportunity to claim it was unfair because "they didn't warn you"
There's more holes in XP than they can possibly deal with, so at some point they're going to stop releasing patches for XP Pro (as they are planning to do for XP Home very soon). This is going to scare a large number of people into upgrades regardless of what they know about the DRM schemes. They'll spread more FUD about Linux on the Desktop, most companies will move to Vista on the Desktop instead, further encouraging home users to use Vista for "compatibility". Remember, most users don't get much farther than the Start button, and would never run Linux at home and Vista at work. In addition, they'll stop allowing OEM's to install XP. Almost all new computers that average consumers buy will have Vista pre-installed.
Reality: "They'll get a user base"
2. It's part of a three step plan to bring Microsoft to the XBOX security model.
Step 1: Allow signing of software. (ActiveX, anyone?)
Step 2: Flag unsigned software as somehow "less secure" to scare people into preferring the signed apps. (XPSP2 Network stored items and IE, Vista - entire OS)
Step 3: Lock out unsigned apps entirely. All the while, collect a licensing fee for signing things. This is the model they took with drivers, and step 3 is implemented in Vista. (Windows codename 1984)
3. To further lock you into the *next* software upgrade, they'll refuse to sign things for the old OS to make them exclusive features of the next OS. The "drivers requiring a signature" is a much bigger deal that most realize. If XP required driver signing, you would not be able to use Bluetooth until Vista (is it even supported in Vista? I think so...) They've done this in the past with USB, then USB 2.0.
The next hardware advance will be the best opportunity for Microsoft to release their next OS. I speculate that they simply won't sign drivers for an entire subset of technology if its too close to an OS release date.
It's going to take severe consumer backlash. Meaning that all of those people who buy their computers at Best Buy and barely get past the Start Button are going to have to demand better. I doubt they will, personally. - thenativeraver, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I smell an exploit....
- Googled, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Too bad for you UKers out there, this sucks."
Yeah but, considering what I've been hearing about the NSA I wouldn't be suprised if the same thing happens to you, or some remote backdoor, but they keep quiet about it.
Well I hope not this sucks in any case. - heffer2k02, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Who cares. Within days some wonderful hackers will have turned all this stuff around for our own benefit. We'll be able to watch whatever we want, download whatever we want, install whatever we want for free - all encrypted in such a way that no one but ourselves has control. At the end of the day, we won't accept anything less...
- starnix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2this will never pass, the security threat is enormous...
- drphilngood, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3It's almost as if Microsoft is trying to discourage the adoption of Vista; they've convinced me.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Besides all your own little tin hats, what happens to private company data? Does this mean the UK government (and the US government as theyll no doubt get their way) can just grab any company secrets they want from any company mad enough to run Vista. For that matter, does it mean MS can grab the same data from the same companies (or maybe even military companies)? After all, who is holding the master key for this?
- JohnTheLutheran, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2From TFA: "The system uses BitLocker Drive Encryption which can be linked to a chip called TPM (Trusted Platform Module) in the computer's motherboard ... This means that by default your hard disk is encrypted by using a key that you cannot physically get at..."
Have I read that right? A key that "you" (the user?) cannot get at.
And there be a *lot* of pressure from the RIAA, MPAA etc on MS, computer manufacturers and lawmakers for the TPM chip to be used to prevent the installation of software that could otherwise bypass DRM and other usage/copying restrictions.
It is, of course, ridiculously paranoid to suggest that this would prevent people from installing Linux on their PCs. That would be anti-competitive and would annoy many corporate users of Linux. Of course, you would only be able to install versions of Linux that had been approved and certified by the people who control the TPM chip and your hard-drive, but you'd still have a "choice" of OS, so what's to complain about? - viii, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Its not an infringement on your rights, its a feature!
- Gerz1219, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I just don't understand what MS is trying to do by publicizing all these DRM features. It's not like MS employees are going to break into your home and force you to upgrade to Vista at gunpoint. It's a product that they want -- no, need -- you, the consumer, to buy. They're basically calling attention to the fact that my current Media Center PC is capable of playing hundreds of gigs of MP3's and Divx files just fine. The only compelling reason to upgrade to Vista was CableCard support, but now that's been scuttled with the recent OEM-only announcement. XP is a perfectly stable, manageable operating system. Am I really going to let my operating system regulate downloads by communicating with a chip in my motherboard just to get a cool-looking 3D desktop?
- SmartITGuy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Keeping windows source code a vigilantly closely guarded secret serves 2 purposes... 1) It maintains their monopoly, and 2) all the back doors stay secret.
This is likely the reason that the Bush administration ordered the Justice Departmant to "leave them alone" in the antitrust suit that almost forced Microsoft to make the source code public.
This is one of the reasons Microsoft makes viewers sign a NDA. - firecrafter695, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1A wise security professor once said "The problem with back doors is that they inevitably become front doors."
- davidhalsey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The UK Patriot Act
- 16x9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1> TheNativeRaver wrote: "I smell an exploit...."
I couldn't agree more. People, this is a very bad idea. Any "backdoor" that is made available for so-called official purposes has the potential of being hacked for other purposes.
If you are a citizen of the UK and a Windows user, I strongly recommend that you fight this. - theone3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@ lobbster. Anyone who has to use capitals to get a point across is not worth listening to.
Anyway, to be fair, this is just one guy adressing the government. It's not like they've reached a concencus or actually made any commitment to even talk to MS on the issue. This story is being blown way out of proportion. - zetsurin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If this is allowed, it will be allowed to happen to any commercial OS. That includes a number of Linux distrobutions. ie. the usable ones that have commercial backing. Linux people better not get complacent just yet.
- TheAttacks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Too bad for you UKers out there, this sucks.
- MarkStrube, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1So all the people who will do REAL bad ***** then won't use Windows. Good job. I mean really... if Digg knows, I'm sure they do. All this is doing is stealing even more of the law abiding citizens' freedoms. Ridiculoud.
- acousticiris, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1... An underground Russian Hacking team has laid off its reverse engineering staff on news of a government sanctioned backdoor being placed into Vista. l33tH4X0r of the unnamed Russian firm says "This will allow us to further reduce our cost structure while maximizing our profits. When government and private industries work together, it only achieves positive results."
In other news, Microsoft Palladium technology, which was later renamed Next Generation Secure Computing Trusted Computing (backdoor) Platform Module, is again being renamed. The proposed name, "Clipper Chip", was thought by the marketing department to be easier for customers to remember. "Trusted Platform Module and Next Generation Secure Computing were too confusing for users and held us to a standard that no software company can expect to deliver on. So from now on the technologies will just be referred to as the 'Clipper Chip'" said a Microsoft Marketing Executive under the condition of anonymity. - dwhitbeck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Trusted computing" NewSpeak, Doublethink, 1984.
- aliguana, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1glad I wiped it off and installed OSX instead. its not piracy now, its a political protest ;)
- zelig, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3The terrorist community, I mean, the insurgents, rather the poor misunderstood Muslum patriots must be smiling right now. NOBODY wants the Government to spy on them.
'Cause, these guys are basically harmless. They just want everyone to understand their (BOOM!) plight. Oops, killed another group of children getting candy. But anyway, Bush, Blair, they are the real terrorists! Spying on their own (al-Qaeda-friendly) citizens. The outrage! After all, this never before happened in history. We are not safe from (BOOM!) ... ah, those pesky car bombs. Where was I...? Oh yeah, just because I am a known associate of al-Qaeda they are tapping my ...(BOOM!) uh, phone, and now they have a backdoor into my software. This is even worse than those Danish cartoo(BLAST!) - Huckleberry, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Actually this is a good thing.. maybe it will finally make the rest of the application developers start developing their programs for the linux platform... if more people migrate to linux then they would have to...
- beaker9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Surely the UK government doesn't need to ask for a backdoor - Microsoft operating systems are full of holes anyway!
- whiznat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1From the article:
"A Microsoft spokeswoman... said: 'It is our goal to give PC users the control and confidence they need so they can continue to get the most out of their PCs.' "
Seems to me that MS is taking control AWAY from the user and giving it computer and media companies. They seem to be oblivious to the fact that it's MY computer, not theirs, not Bill's, not the MPAA's or the RIAA's. Mine.
I will not cede control of something I paid $2k for so I can watch videos. I'm sure their response will be to make it illegal for me to keep control of my own machine. Tough. I'll keep control one way or another. If there ever was a reason to use Linux, here it comes. - jambarama, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yeah it'll be exploited. But it isn't like Windows isn't exploited already. The issue here is privacy NOT security. Should Blair have access to your HD? The terrorists will go somewhere else (apple/unix/linux/BSD), only Microsoft customers are hurt by this. Microsoft really gets picked on in Europe. Microsoft should tell them to bugger off.
- Buelldozer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Intersting. If they actually do this to Vista it can never be used in the Medical Industry here in the United States. HIPPA regulations would forbid it. I think SOx may have some issues with this as well.
- sporkwitch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Actually, other than the DRM crap, and now this (which isn't all that surprising, really, you figure the coders built a backdoor in with or without M$'s knowledge anyway, it's just naive to think otherwise), Vista was and is looking to be the first actual UPGRADE to windows. Overall I'm looking forward to Vista, it's a decent revamp, new imaging system for backups and restoration and such. Overall, from an IT standpoint, looking pretty decent, plus full support for dual-core and 64bit procs. My primary problem is that even at the crappy mode, it's a massive graphics resource whore, and when it comes to windows, I'm sorry, but I want it on max "pretty" mode, since it's the only thing they usually upgrade, and I will admit, if nothing else, windoze tends to look prettier each time.
But still, like I posted earlier, it'll be broken at LEAST several weeks before actual release, and you all know it, lol. - chrisu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You obviously don't live in the UK nnonix, I agree that its becoming a police state.
- nedzalife, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0If you've read anything about TPMs, you know that the DRM protection they supply is much like the original Xbox's hard drive ATA code. The system will not boot unless the drive is locked with the correct code (or mod chip installed, of course).
Same thing with this encryption. Hard drives can't be read unless it can find the correct TPM.
If cops knock on your door, just break a couple capasitors on your motherboard :)
I don't think the real enemy is the the fact that Vista is taking advantage of TPM, I think it's the fact that TPMs exitst in the first place and are already on some of our motherboards! and that Intel and Microsoft are in bed together to get this working.
I know I won't be upgrading to Vista cause of this, and if they patch XP (SP3) to do the same thing, I'm going to get a Mac or switch to Linux. I'm not going to touch TPM with a ten foot poll. - schlongmeister, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"The system is aimed at preventing tampering with computers but it would also help prevent people from downloading unlicensed films or media."
Big Brother is watching your media preferences!! And he wants you to bend over so that he can cum in your backdoor...
Seriously though, why would anyone even want to use a MicroSoft OS anymore? The code's got more bugs than a meal on Fear Factor, and it just seems to be getting worse. Send MS a message and switch to Linux or better yet Mac OS. If everyone stopped using this crap, they'd (hopefully) quit making it... - matcrawf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0sorta on an unrelated note - does anyone remember a few months back when we saw the story of the UK government planning to track every single car, to see where it is going, from where, etc. Also planning to store the data indefinitely. anyone that says the US government is going too far, needs to rethink.
btw, if MS authorizes a backdoor to a party, how long until this exploit becomes mainstream? And you know, it'll take 3 weeks for MS to issue the patch to fix it anyways.... - randf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0as long as there's no insulting cartoons in this OS, what's the problem here? that's the only real problem in the world.
you can trust everyone else, but not the govt. the govt is really really bad. they really really need to be kept out of our lives...until something bad happens, and then it's the govt's fault for not taking the necessary precautions, not connecting the dots. - FAT_PIGGY, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0POLICE STATE !
- EntrepreNerd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0As a rule I always keep a Linux box around anyway. This just provides another reason for it.
- h00ligan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0googled said ""Too bad for you UKers out there, this sucks."
Yeah but, considering what I've been hearing about the NSA I wouldn't be suprised if the same thing happens to you, or some remote backdoor, but they keep quiet about it.
Well I hope not this sucks in any case. "
Assuming it isn't in place now with most major software - which it likely is. With the increasing complexity of the PGP Corporation's application I question whether recent source code analysis is really getting to the bottom of the issue. I would be more likely to use truecrypt at this point for sensitive data - with East-Tec Eraser or something.
It all stinks, pretty soon opensource is going to be the only safe OS... exluding even Suse, Redhat, and the like - which will also be likely gov't targets. - STKD, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Oh good. Security holes built in! The Vista feature list just keeps on getting better and better each day.
- RBOnline, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Turns out it's a load of rubbish. Digg my story on it.
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Do the morons in the British government realize that you don't need Vista to encrypt your data? Why put a backdoor in Vista and not address the other ways? That's right, you guessed it; not to get at encrypted data, but to spy on EVERYONE; whether they encrypt their data or not, whether they are criminals or not. What professional criminal uses Windows anyway? They use Linux!
What is the British government really after? Maybe it has been taken over by aliens and they're trying to gain control of the world via the internet? :) - MindTrigger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0
Apple won't be any different if it gains enough popularity. DRM, govt back doors, will be the same.
Your only hope to avoid this kind of ***** is *nix. Seriously, the only thing slowing me down from switching is gaming. If you can't switch yet, buy a hardware firewall (not your wireless router) or build yourself a little linux firewall box. - p1nhead, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Their government is a bunch of script kiddies.
- Pas3n7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm so excited for VISTA!!!!!!!!1111111111111
Why would anyone buy it? stick to what you have, go mac, or go open source. - o0joshua0o, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I have a feeling they're not the only ones who want a backdoor into Windows Vista. ;-)
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"dwight d. eisenhower kicked ass! i wish he were here today. all we got NOW is that "jiminy" carter guy and he's out building...buildings. :P"
PSST. Eisenhower would be kicking "your" side in the balls, too...not just Bush. He didn't believe in the Nanny State...and Carter is just as much if not more of a disgrace than Bush. - missindependent, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0like they dont spy us already enough. this is like in matrix. it wouldnt suprise me if next they try put chips in people too.
and i agree with heffer2k02k whatever they do hackers will always find way around god bless em. - nnonix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Police State? Gov't Back Doors? Your all freakin' crazy!
- slurpeyatari, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0the UK is known going in through "backdoor"
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