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80 Comments
- jdaniel284, on 10/10/2007, -3/+46He was arrested for running the service. Bomb threat or not, he *was* arrested for running a TOR server.
It would be similar if someone robbed a bank, and ran through my front yard afterwards, and the cops, out of frustration, arrested me because they saw the guy running through my front yard. Arresting someone is SERIOUS. They should not drag a huge net through the waters to see what they catch, throwing away anything not worthy. - duggtodeath, on 10/10/2007, -2/+44Holy *****! It's the Gestapo! Roll up the windows!
- faceninja, on 10/10/2007, -0/+40"Janssen's attempts to explain what Tor is to the police officers fell initially on deaf ears. After being interrogated for hours, someone from the city of Düsseldorf's equivalent of the Department of Homeland Security showed up and admitted to Janssen that they'd made a mistake. He was released shortly after."
- whataboutdave, on 10/10/2007, -2/+42Everyone who uses Tor MUST be a pedophile, right? It's not like there are legitimate uses of Tor servers or anything. I'm sure there aren't any places on this planet where governments repress and censor web access...
- rudy23, on 10/10/2007, -10/+42Ok this is another crappy headline. he was arrested becasue soemone using a TOR IP posted a bomb threat. what else do you expect the cops to do?
the headlien makes it sound like he was arrested fro runnign the service. - WarpFox, on 10/10/2007, -4/+26HOLY ***** A LION
GET IN THE CAR - jdaniel284, on 10/10/2007, -2/+22If you don't have anything to hide, why run a TOR server? Are you helping the terrorists? Because the terrorists hate us because of our freedoms. Ignorance is strength!
Now if you'll excuse me, it is time for my daily exercises in front of my telescreen. - Jugalator, on 10/10/2007, -0/+15So the police wasn't sure what they were doing there, arresting him? They just wanted to make sure he wasn't up to something! Hm... :-p
- arbulus, on 10/10/2007, -1/+15Granted, I see what he's saying and if he were trying to make a joke, I can see the effort. But I'm not a fan of this mentality. Not everyone who uses proxies are criminals or perverts. Perhaps I just simply don't like the idea that I might be tracked around the net; maybe I like the idea that I can do what I want annonymously. I don't like the idea that people think one who desires annonymity is doing something wrong. It creates a nanny/surveilance mentality that leads to Big Brother if left unchecked.
Why do people have to know what I, or anyone else, does at all times? If I want to encrypt every single email I send, if I want to use proxies, if I want to hook a water wheel up in the creek that flows across my property and use that for hydro electric power, if I want to grow all of my own food and make my own clothes, "stay off the grid" as it were, what the hell is wrong with that? Why is it such a problem for people to be able to go about their lives without being able to be tracked and all of their actions accounted for on paper? It's no one's business what I do, as long as I don't do anything illegal, and just because I want to be private and annoymous doesn't mean I'm doing anything illegal. - habbofresh, on 10/10/2007, -3/+14it's "JESUS CHRIST IT'S A LION"
get it right.
GEEZ - FTLJohnson, on 10/10/2007, -2/+12Sometimes, when jokes are bad, they aren't funny. Like for example, when they have to be explained, defended, or corrected, because they were told to the entirely wrong audience. You might not, for instance, tell grandma rape jokes at an AARP meeting... That COULD be the wrong crowd for that. Likewise, this person should have told his joke in a geek bar where people would get a star wars reference but perhaps be too drunk to have their inner ethical hacker ask if there are legitimate uses for TOR.
- drunkendash, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9FTA:
"If 40GB of other people's Internet traffic flows through your own home network, can authorities, be they the RIAA or FBI reasonably link anything that has been tracked to your computer's ip address to you?"
Since when is the RIAA an authority? - anarchistuk, on 08/11/2009, -0/+8That's the whole point of Tor, you can't detect one person from another. There are security holes if you monitor both ends of the traffic or use Java/Javascript.
- ArchangelZLT, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7You will know why Tor is one of the greatest stuffs if you live in China.
- deutscheBag, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Holy ***** - Its the Stasi! Punch It Chewwie!
- austin63, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Does the government hold the telephone company responsible when someone calls in a threat from a pay phone? I think not. It gets really scary when lawmakers don't understand the repercussions of the laws they are passing. Now show me your papers!
- ledmonkey, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6>:3
- arbulus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6The RIAA think they are an authority.
- HonoredMule, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7If they didn't even know what led them there, how could they possibly have had justified cause to arrest? It's akin to arresting someone because their business card was near a murder weapon.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8ya reading the article really shows the cops are not being unreasonable
they get a bomb threat, they track the IP, it leads to him, they bring him in..this is what could happen when you let strangers use your connection
just like if you let a stranger borrow your car and he robs a bank, you can expect cops to show up at your house - JudgeMonkey, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Wow, right from cars to sulfuric enemas. Someone has been thinking.
- TechCF, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7What's happening to Germany? The new US? First they stop Kismac.de development, and no they go after Tor network proxys...
- hogger84, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4But if a trail of blood from the murder scene went back thorugh into your trees, then you bet you would get a knock on the door.
- MiDri, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6Lets say I own some land, and this land has lots of trees and bushes (lots of places to ditch some one that is chasing you.) Lets say I don't really care if people want to travel over this land, for what ever reason -- not my concern.
Am I know liable and could be arrested if some one that committed a crime got away due to the fact they ran through my land and the police lost them? - DontSayFanboy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4When a group has legislation passed on its behalf and law enforcement spends millions of dollars to protect their interests, I think it's safe to say that such a group is an authority.
- Daisuke, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4You don't know how tor works - the logs will likely show your ip address, but chances are that the traffic coming from your ip address is not yours and originated somewhere else in the tor network. so yes, they can show that you were somewhere along the route that the data took (IF they have logs), but it becomes incredibly difficult to prove that the data in question was "yours".
- BigBrother87, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Indeed.
- rudy23, on 10/10/2007, -4/+7They dont even know what a TOR server is.
Its not that cops arrested someone out of frustration. there must be some procedures which pointed to his address. Thats all. once they realized their mistake they let him go. people need to stop getting their panties in in a bunch. - blackwinged, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I don't think so. Gestapo => Drittes Reich, Stasi => DDR
- oldhick, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Maybe try something other than "arrest first, ask questions later". I for one would like to think they might investigate... But hell with that right? Someone makes a threat and we should just arrest them first! You are an absolute genius.
- zazzalicious, on 10/10/2007, -0/+31984. It's a book. You should read it, it's about a Dystopian vision of the future. You may have heard of Big Brother?
- arnoldrimmer, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3We have no "equivalent of the Department of Homeland Security " BKA is the German Version of the FBI nothing more nothing less
- queenstarsha, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3they also made flickr germany censor the ***** out of itself. probably literally.
- TexanPsycho, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4I like the idea of TOR but I just don't like the idea of someone using it for evil or wrong doings etc;.
- queenstarsha, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3they can send him a polite note asking if he knows who the bomb threat ***** was. but they don't arrest eric schmidt because perverts find what they're looking for on google. tor servers, like google and lots of other internet services, are great for everyone. the people who abuse them should be in trouble, not the people who provide the service.
- Kitsune818, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2.. but you can nail the person who owns the computer attached to the IP on the final packet, causing people to not want to run end proxies, shutting the whole thing down..
- InsaneGeek, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2They get common-carrier exception because that is their role, they aren't end-user consumers. If you file the proper goverment paperwork to claim carrier status before an issue occurs and are able to track the end-users that you are allowing onto your service you won't have to worry. But as an end-user you don't have that protection and I fail to see why you would think you would get a special exception. If you can get sued for not having a high-enough fence around your pool, why do you think allowing any joe-schmoe to use your property and when they do something bad, would keep the police from having a "conversation" with you. You are the last person in the chain, no matter what they *are* going to have a conversation with you, and they *are* going to assume that you being the property owner is the originator of any bad things.
- akexakex, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4I think you are referring to Stasi actually.
- HonoredMule, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2A suspect? hardly. A lead, perhaps. Certainly nothing more.
The issue is that the cops had no idea what they were doing or what the technology they were tracking meant, so they pulled out the cuffs AND RAIDED THE HOME of the first human name they found. It's practically the definition of grasping at straws. - arbulus, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3But that same logic can be applied to anything. People use cars for utilitarian purposes, but they can also be used to run someone down. Enemas can be used for good colonic health, but you can also tie someone up and give them an enema of sulphuric acid. There's no end to what evil you can do with sundry items.
- hogger84, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2No because telephone companies are big companies that are well known and "trusted" (by the police anyway) and will have deals to share phone records with police. If someone came into your house and made the call, you bet you'd be arrested.
- Atomic1fire, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2or if they found drugs
- Kitsune818, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3I've always thought this was a week spot in Tor. Tor essentially shifts responsibility from the originator to the owner of the final proxy in the chain. It's too bad there isn't a way to anonymize those proxies as well (of course, if you could, people wouldn't need Tor in the first place.)
- grayem, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Funny there isn't any mention of this on the EFF site. At least not yet.
Last time I tried TOR, it was far far slower than dialup and it came out in Germany. >shrug - tech42er, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Actually, that's a logical lead. I'd be surprised if the police didn't check it out.
- Atomic1fire, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Its not them going after proxys
it was someone doing a hate crime
and them investigating
I hate it when anarchist draw conclusions that usually involves an evil authority mentality - Atomic1fire, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1the only reason this is such a huge issue
is people think its a story about bad cops
its not
its just cops doing their job - Atomic1fire, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1no
they likely thought he was connected
being an admin of a server that was likely used in the forum post - Atomic1fire, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1its called evidence
if that was the person or it was someone the person knows (in the case of a business card)
does that not make them a suspect
and over this whole server issue
the guy ran a server
the cops were investigating on a crime done on said server they asked him questions realized it was a mistake and let him go
whats the issue - tech42er, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I'm not sure it was a simply an oversight on the part of the OP. He might e one of those guys who advocates vigilante justice for anyone on the sex offender lists and obsessively watches 'To Catch A Predator'.
Speaking of Tor and anonymity, how does one run a Tor server? IS it a distributed volunteer network anyone can join, or what? -
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