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50 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"They don't understand, I could write a virus that would rip that place off bigtime... bigtime."
- MannaPC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is too funny. The teens who did this need to be expelled and have a stern talking to by the state, school and most of all (The biggest one) their parrents.
- Crashmaster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Wow, thats only like 15 min from me, cool.
I dont think that the punishment fits this crime. It's the admins fault for not securing his network, but then again school networks are never very secure, I know mine wasnt. - zigid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I did the same thing when I was in high school. . .The article has it right when they say the harder the school tries to protect the computers, the bigger the gauntlet they throw. It's like an invitation to break it.
- gwjc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1OMFG! WTF! Just think somewhere in PA a rapist or killer gets some more playtime because they're pissing away their legal resources going after these kids. I loved this bit:
'...said Internet expert Jean Armour Polly, author of "Net-mom's Internet Kids & Family Yellow Pages."' - I wonder if she's lurks on Digg .. - KdoggMDF, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I agree gwjc.
- bacon_skoda, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"They learned how to download programs and music from the internet. They learned how to download programs that allowed them to chat with their friends. They learned a lot. And, a few kids gained access to inappropriate imagery."..."The password file was quickly discovered. Almost all passwords are encrypted. And, it didn’t take long for them to find a program on the internet that would interpret the password."
So that's why the schools gave them laptops. To learn to iChat online and download music. And to challenge them to crack passwords. Because, if the school gave us encrypted passwords, they must want us to crack it...of course. Those are the good students.
-I wonder how much acutal learning of the ABCs were going on. - cool4u2view, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's different if they don't get caught and aren't cocky about it. These kids did get caught and were punished multiple times and then the kids proceeded to do it again. How retarded are these kids. Most of us probably did this type of stuff. I remember doing it in college, high school, middle school, and yes even elementary school not to mention every job I've ever worked at. Did I ever get caught?... not once because I know what I'm doing.
As a general message to all who commit crime think first and then act don't act first then think. Learn to cover your tracks. - benb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That article makes me embarrassed to be a network admin at a school. Taping the passwords to the back of the PCs? Come on. That is just asking for trouble and is beyond lazy. Due diligence in security would solve most of these problems.
I also don't see how this keeps happening. If some kids did this on our network their account would be suspended per our network use policy. If they keep doing it, then they will be using a typewriter for their term paper and poster boards for presentations.
I don't mind a student taking an interest in the technology/network, but if they are trying to mess something up, then they are going to have to answer for their actions. Being an admin at a school is hard enough, I don't need some wannabe hacker screwing things up to show off. - Manuel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I also want to add: It is also very stupid to tape admin passwords to the computers and there is no excuse for this. Period.
- Frinkiac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1the school district im in was about to do the same thing (then subsequently got canned [the same ones with the stickers in the biology books]). but i definately would have been there on the first day finding out passwords and as many brute force attacks as i could manage on the servers within my 6 hour day.
but you have to know when to quit. if theyve found you out once, unless you plan on going to another state, they have most likely learned your tricks. whatever, some people just really dont know when not to abuse a good thing (diggnation podcast...) - fozzcorp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Well both the kids and the parents signed a computer use policy. No matter what the kids say about "We found a hole, reward us" that little piece of paper will get them an expulsion at the very least. Yea they didn't do anything serious in their eyes, but they were told not to, and still did it. This is also the sort of reason why security is needed. Its not enough for the human race to know right from wrong, opportunity will always govern some, making precautions a must.
You also say they need better security, will the computer use policy should have been enough... - Punani, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I would sympathize with these students more if they hadn't already been reprimanded rather harshly for their actions. Believing that, "we will keeping doing this till they fix it," is not a legitimate excuse as much as, "we will keep breaking into cars until they make better locks," is.
On the other hand, I understand that schools can be amazingly naive and stupid. I had a teacher who suspected someone else and me of "vandalizing" the school's notebooks. What happened? The printer settings were reset on one cart to the default Microsoft Office printer, wow. I ended up being sent bewildered to the vice principal's office a few days later and warned never to do it again, if I had done it (literally). - p00p, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Quick, someone set up an iPod fund for them :)
- capn_crunch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1these kids are below script kiddies, they were told at the beginning of the year that everything they do on the computers could be monitered (even who they login as), yet they still didn't think enough to disable the internet connection before they tried their little password cracker, and on top of that none of them acually disabled the program that was used to spy on them they just thought they did.
- dtrinh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1All Im saying is that these kids should of seen it coming.
But it's both parties' fault.
The school failed to prevent this (putting the password on the back is LAME) - and the kids repeatedly broke the contract. - Invariant, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I have no sympathy for these script kiddies. They were suspended and STILL did the same things? Way to fight the system, champs. Those aren't your computers and it's not your network. You shouldn't have to have someone TELL you not to screw around with things.
Also, they can't design a web page: http://www.cutusabreak.org/ - capn_crunch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1this was posted just a few days ago
http://digg.com/links/Students_in_Kutztown_are_protesting_felony_computer_trespass_charges - JackDoyle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That kid is a moron: "There are a lot of adults who go 10 miles over the speed limit or don't come to a complete stop at a stop sign. They know it's not right, but they expect a fine" not a felony offense, he said.
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That's because speeding 10mph and not coming to a complete stop ARE NOT felonies!!! It is reasonable to expect that you won't get charged with a felony offense when you aren't committing a felony! - cool4u2view, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0haha the poor script kiddies will settle in court for community service, nothing more while the real threats quietly sit back in their high school calc class daydreaming of swimming with dolphins, whispering imaginary numbers, looking for the fourth dimension....
- Nothlit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0In elementary school I was sent to the principal for supposed "hacking." How could I help it when it became so incredibly obvious that each student's 4-digit numerical password was incremental in alphabetical order by last name? Sheesh... ;-)
- Tweekster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1yes yes, we have heard it before.
law enforcement should only focus on whatever the most horrible crime is and forgo doing anything about anyone else. we got it.
these kids broke the law and should pay, nothing too light, nothing too harsh.
and no its not the admins fault for not securing the network, they should do their job and thats that. they shouldnt be dietyś when it comes to security and that is why these laws exist. - the_mole1314, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I already sent them an email, there is NO legal back up. I was part of a county that had such a program (the ones who are selling them off and are getting Dells) and I can tell you not even those that hacked and changed their grades got possible jail time!
This is sad. - Brak710101, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1If they tried to expel me for that, I'd destroy all of thier computers OS's, and leave no proof. Screw the school. I know more then college proffessors who are 4x my age at CMU, they ask me for help, if a highschool teacher would question my abilitys next year, I'd show them, boy, would I ever show them.
- Braingoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I remember back when I accidently (on purpose on a dare to prove I could) sent a pop up message to every computer in the school! If i only knew then what I know now that school would be in such trouble.
- Drifton, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Let me say first off these kids aren't too bright to continue doing these things after they have been warned, or not finding a way that they wouldn't get caught. On the other hand the punishment for their actions is beyond over kill.
- jamsea, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"But those barriers proved easily surmountable: The administrative password that allowed students to reconfigure computers and obtain unrestricted Internet access was easy to obtain. A shortened version of the school's street address, the password was taped to the backs of the computers."
Jeeze, that's just sad. The admins deserved a lot more then a few kids downloading iChat. Of course if these kids were smart they would have got rid of the logs... That's what I do anyway :P - Manuel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0While some people may think we (as system admins) are very strict, and don't care, the truth is that there is very private data on the school networks. MOST of us who are on top of the game, are also very aware of our networks and when something isn't right, we track it down and fix it.
The only other thing I have to add is this: Most people are not seeing it from the tech admin's or the school district's side of the coin. We, the readers of the article, actually don't know what really happened, we really only get the perspective from the parent(s) side, with very little information from the school side. For this reason, the article is poorly researched, and is very biased.
-M - kblowers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0http://digg.com/links/Students_in_Kutztown_are_protesting_felony_computer_trespass_charges
- idleminded, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0How does one go about becoming an "internet expert"?
- 5blocksfree, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0>> IT staff at schools are often poorly trained, making it easy for students with even modest computer skills to get around security, he said.
I wonder what the requirements are for such a position. At least, I'd say, if you're going to have poorly-trained staff, don't be doing stuff that will subject you to he worst possible circumstances. This had "invitation" written all over it. To be sure, what these kids did was wrong, but in all seriousness, what did they expect? - jspsh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0even if the internet connection cannot be disabled due to the local security policy, they could've at least tried to use a faraday cage :)
- thecapitalizt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0hey it was only 3 years ago that my high school actually kept everyone's (including teachers) password in an excel spreadsheet on a PUBLIC SERVER, and you weren't allowed to change your password.. Then some kid who was already universally hated for various things he did, reported it to the teachers.
Within one week, all students were required to have an 8-character password with a number, an uppercase and a lowercase letter, and some sort of "special character" like an apostrophe. Oh, and it couldn't match any of the last 20 passwords. Changed every 2 months. Lets just forget for a moment the fact that the school still used hubs in some places, and you could sniff assorted things off the wire. - Armitage, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0They should just say they were doing it to learn more about security or something... its a school, we go there to learn.
- lockdown, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I have to agree with the minority here, these kids kept committing the crime. If they don't want to be charged with a felony they need to take that up with the state supreme court to see if the law is constitutional or not. The school and local law enforcement are just doing their jobs. The kids broke the law, several times, and now must face the consequences.
- kblowers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is a dupe of something I posted a week ago, bastards...
- whalesalad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Im 15, am in high school, and did that all sophomore year. The bios password was found using std, it unlocked a lot of other things. I just stole SAM files from all over the place and cracked em at home. I was using one of the admin accounts for a while until my web teacher (who is pretty uber leet) told them that "someone" was using their account. He didnt' want either of us to get into trouble.
I so totally want to own that school. Its ironic though, because its a science and technology school and yet their IT deparment is a circus, and they use NOVELL!
I am going to have to side with the kids on this one. IT departments in schools are so unaware, my district being a great example. A lot of thanks to Kevin Rose, I would have never got to this point without hum ;). - edtruckell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0It's a prety sorry state of affairs, though the students should have really known better (or at least done a better job of not getting caught).
What really needs to happen is high profile coverage of cases such as this, and expecially the WiFi tresspass cases, so the public becomes far more aware how legal precidents are being set based on fear, ignorance and covering up incompetence.
Let's try and do something to raise general awareness about these issues and how they could possibly affect people in the future, as well as bitching to each other about it. (apologies for ranting) - rockmanac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0What's funny is in high school in my computer programming class the net admin was in working on some computers... She has supposdily locked down our systems so that no one on a student account could access the C drive. When I told her that it was still possible she basically said "prove it", so I did. With-in a day we all had C drive access back. (Someone forgot to mention to her that even with the Netware network, Windows 98 was still not secure)
We also figured out that if you had a computer with AOL on it you could use the TCP/IP connection to AOL and get around the school's internet filter by browsing the web through AOL.
Also, the worst thing that we ever did in high school was print 70+ pages of code to all the printers at the rival high school.
-A - JackDoyle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Rather than restate my comments, I'll just link to my own blog entry for anyone interested in reading:
http://blog.thajack.com/2005/08/10/students-charged-with-computer-trespass/ - bacon_skoda, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0the story is, the admin later changed the password and encrypted it and yet the students went and broke that one. there was a whole tug of war going on. kids broke rule, school fix and gave punishment. kids broke rule again. school fix and gave more punishment. kids broke rule again...school brings on the police.
even without the Felony, what college want these kids in their school knowing that they will break their system, cost them money, and will never stop until you bring in the police. - Rndm_Tngnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0They were given computers and then charged with Trespass when they used them to their full extent?
Yeah, that's a felony, right there. - lockdown, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0My Letter to the parents:
Your kids messed up, and not just once but several times. They broke the law several times and were warned yet they proceeded to break the law. If you want to change the law for others you should tell your legislators that you don't believe in this law and hope it gets repealed. Since you broke the law when it was a law you SHOULD have to go to the state supreme court to get the law ruled unconstitutional.
I hope your kids DON'T get off, but I also hope they don't go to a juvenile detention center. I believe they've earned a conviction on their juvenile record but should be punished with community service. - IraqManiac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0these kids are kind of dumb because they repeatedly broke the contract, but they shouldn't be given felonies, they should be hired by the school to fix the problems, and just given a strict set of warnings, but this is complete BS they shouldn't be punished like this
- larsinio, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I've been to kutztown before
it sucks
just your average hick PA town - Tweekster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0IraqManiac: Why would I want to hire the criminals that brought this issue to head in the first place
they have shown they are unethical. i would hire professionals to fix it.
not a few punk kids with ***** for brains.
why should they get off so lightly or even rewarded. i didnt know we should reward criminals that repeatidly break the law - Jiu-Jitsu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0That's crazy!! There should also be repercussion for the admin because they caused a breach in security and most likely didn't adhere to the organizations security policy. I understand high schools don't have a large IT staff but even if it's a singe person you would expect them to be competent. If I write my PIN# on my ATM card whose fault is it when I lose my card and a person zeros out my account. Felony charges won't fly in court though.
There is a lesson to be learned... Don't get caught! - p00p, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0What a bunch of *****!
These kids need to be REWARDED, not RUINED! - bndocksnt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0---
"But your honor! That bitch WANTED to be raped! Look at how she was dressed!"
That is how asinine you sound whenever you say "It is the school's fault for not securing it", or "it is my neighbor's fault for not protecting his WiFi."
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^^that is ridiculous, ever heard of perspective? there is a huge difference between some high schoolers ***** around with computers and rapists. look up the definition for asinine, *****, because you're it. - ub3rgeek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0hell i did something like this to my school, And i didnt get susspneded. no i go HIRED by the school to help them out with there network.
This is complte BS. I mean in my school I told a few people about the netsend fuction and it became very popular. And then i told people about proxys.
again this is compltet bs.
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