What is Digg?123 Comments
- mattxb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+104What the kind of secret is it that they can't tell our courts of law but they can tell AT&T---a private corporation?
- gldfshnpcklejar, on 10/12/2007, -5/+62I know one court it is not too secret for. You are about to enter the courtroom of Judge Judith Sheindlin. The people are real. The cases are real. The rulings are final. This is her courtroom. This is Judge Judy.
- CraigB12, on 10/12/2007, -2/+57As someone else said in the Dick Cheney story, "I expect the worst when it comes to the current administration, and I'm NEVER disappointed."
- bsmeteronhigh, on 10/12/2007, -2/+57Perhaps our Supreme Court should get involved, pronto.
- klepto, on 10/12/2007, -2/+56One of the Supreme Court's responsibility is to keep everyone in check, sadly they're not doing their job.
- KibibyteBrain, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21If Congress had any balls they would stop payment on any Department of Homeland Security programs until they provide evidence that the People paid to acquire. Remember this democrats: despite victory, things are still just as bad as before. Both parties need to be overhauled or just need to go.
- 7of7, on 10/12/2007, -5/+24That makes me rather sick, but I guess I never had very high expectations of the US government anyway. It's a flawed system. None are perfect but the way ours hides its flaws behind a blinding veil of secrecy and relies on American apathy and ignorance to further the goals of the aristocracy is particularly disgusting. C'est la vie. It will be fought.
- bitswapper, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20Its too secret even for them ... !
After all, this is war. If you think about it, the war on terror is a good hack against the system of checks and balances. Its working, from the look of it. - KyleRayner, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15"I really don't care if I'm spied on. I have nothing to hide."
Really? Please post your Social Security number, pin to your ATM card, home address, and credit card numbers. Thanks! - Kingfisherx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12If you're still using the term hippies to describe people who are aware of how screwed up things have gotten, then you seriously need a reality check.
- draegloth, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Yeah, communism's flaw is that it relies on the good moral judgment of the state.. capitalism's flaw is that it relies on the good moral judgment of people whose main goal is the accumulation of money and power. the problem with our corporatocracy is that we're run by our most affluent and influential citizens.. the corporations themselves. AT&T, Monsanto, you name it.. they own us.
How are we going to take our country back when all we want is another cell phone and a faster car, and they can provide that as long as we're willing to keep slaving away for them so they can get richer? what's the point of having ALL the money? I don't understand the logic. - sakamaka, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11If you have nothing to hide, then you must be a naked homeless guy.
- faskippy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9"The district court used a chain of conjecture, hypothesis, and unwarranted inference to suggest that AT&T's alleged participation in these programs was not in fact a secret. The court, for instance, relied on its own unfounded and inexpert speculation that content surveillance requires the cooperation of a telecommunications provider."
Well, if content surveillance does NOT require the cooperation of a telecommunications provider, then why didn't AT&T simply say NO when asked to do it. Why didn't they tell them "you don't need us to do this, do it yourself, we're not getting involved".
Big business, payoffs and every other dispicable, underhanded game are at play here. They'll hang us out to dry is given half a chance. Need more proof? - draegloth, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9...which makes it a problem with the system of government...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Enough with all this lawlessness, these judges need to stop being lap dogs and do their dam job.
- GRTWHT, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Had to digg you down for the "hallmark of the Bush administration" comment.
This is a hallmark of our society, the ruling class and bureaucracy as a whole, not specific to one political party/president.
By continuing to believe that 'the other side' is going to save you, they all are allowed to continue to destroy our country. Realize that the politicians are our enemies, not our friends and you'll be on the road to the truth. - GraveyBrains, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9If terrorists overseas calling Americans were the target, they can bloody well provide evidence to that fact....or am i supposed to take George W. "When your talking about wiretaps, your talking about a warrant" Bush's word for it?
- 955701, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I have a solution, as well as a more concise answer as to what is wrong. The short version, it's not the system. The system is fine, it's the people. The people inside the government and the people outside of it.
To explain the problem, lets equate a politician to a child (heh, hey, I'm just sayin' cause of the analogy ;). If a parent is around to tell the child when they are and are not doing something wrong, the child can act with some seblance of good behavior. If the parent is no where around, the child is liable to make bad decisions. If someone gets between the child and the parent (let's call this evil villian Grandma) and winds the child up the child misbehaves again. We are the parents and corps are the Grandma here. Money is the candy.
If you are technically minded the problem comes down to Control Systems 101: Feedback. You must have feedback in a stable system for it to work as designed. The designers put together an excellent system with plenty of feedback loops. The problem is Grandma has gone and tossed candy in the loop, and the parents have gone awol. And a citizen who is barely paying attention to the Politicians is awol - it's all or nothing.
The solution? Use the Internet to cut a short feedback loop past the Grandma and the candy and get the parents interested again.
Get the *right* , timely data to the parent about the childs behavior and the parent won't be able to help themselves. When that happens, it will be like an episode of Nanny 911 - all the bad ***** goes away at once and we won't be left standing around complaining because the Kids let Grandma put a video camera in the parent room in return for some candy.
Anyone want to hear my hypothesis on how to do this? Here's a teaser:
I assert that a team of 9 people - three expert programmers, 3 medium level, one US Government major, and two Marketing folks can nail this problem. And I am willing to put the initial plan out and challenge a collection of such teams (or variations as someone sees fit) to race eachother, with open books, open software and online journals to the finish line: Make the average US citizen know more about the federal government than an armchair quarterback knows football stats. If a critical mass of people click into the system a new feedback loop will come on line and political money will be useless. Knowledge will trump any ***** speech and the majority of the problems will start righting themselves like an numb arm recovering from having the blood flowing to it again. - faskippy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Mez...you are one sad individual. You have my pity. Now, kindly remove your sorry ass from my Country...
- woodsja, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Am I the only one who finds it slightly hypocritical for ATnT's lawyer to use the phrase "chain of conjecture, hypothesis, and unwarranted inference to suggest [wrongdoing]"
- warox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@thcobbs
The Supreme Court rules on, primarily, the constitutionality and interpretations ,of the law . Congress can amend the constitution and the exec dept can choose to interpret the law differently. There are other ways to check the power of the courts, mostly involving crafting narrowly tailored laws. I'm not 100% clear on the specifics, but there are other ways in which laws can limit the power of the courts and what types of cases they can hear.
For example, many of the recent anti-gay marriage state referendums/laws were generally amendments to the state constitution - so that they could not be overruled by the court system. - faskippy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6AT&T argues that the court made the inexpert assumption that the surveillance required the cooperation of a telecommunications provider.
The govt. says AT&T had to be involved. So, even the two defendants can't get their stories straight. This argument alone ought to be interesting. - dynacrylic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6After recently watching Sneakers and loving Dan Aykroyd's character banter about conspiracy theories, it only gets me thinking. With ATnT partnering with Cingular and Apple partnering with Cingular for the iPhone service, it get's me thinking that this is all planned. The iPhone is being pedestaled as the next best thing since the TV remote- is this only a coincidence. Is the government actively, but secretly, trying to promote a device that will monitor most of country?
While were on the same subject, let's talk about how the moon landing was faked....
:P - HannibalLecter, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7If you truly love your country, you wouldn't be happy to allow governments to keep itself secret from the people. You wouldn't be happy that the government abridges the rights of its citizens for the political and financial gains of a minority. Accountability in government isn't just a mantra, it's a necessary requirement to keep the American Republic functioning correctly.
- Kenzan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@Mezochan
Everyone has something to hide, and everyone does something at sometime in their lives which the Government would *deem* as bad. - mikelieman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I think the Checks and Balances thing isn't working correctly.
- Kingfisherx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Clueless
- swrostmore, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7While the data mining techniques may be similar, the difference here is that what the government is doing is NOT LEGAL and what marketers do is LEGAL.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+12That would be contrary to the concept that nothing is above the law, but that kind of thinking(they're above the law or the law doesn't apply) seems to have become a hallmark of the Bush administration and they're never ending quest to subvert the constitution. They've made no secret of their contempt for the rule of law.
- sakamaka, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Are you saying the government has a right to listen in on people's conversations? If you seriously can't see the consequences of your position, you are not really smart.
- friedman420, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5*****, mccarthyism, the censorship/monitoring of student groups, the black panthers, the american government has a long history of monitoring whoever it wants, whenever it wants
- KyleRayner, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"Also, the thing about posting my numbers had no relavence to my original post."
Of course it does dearie. Everybody has some things to hide, its called privacy. - bighed03, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Is it me or does this all seem like complete insanity?
the government can wiretap americans illegally, using at&t, get caught out for it, and then simply say the case needs to be dropped because it's too secret? because it will divulge national secrets that could put americans at harm? WHAT A CROCK OF *****.
are we even considered a democratic country anymore? - escheriv, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Actually, Cingular and AT&T are on the same level. Both are owned by SBC. It's just that AT&T has the higher name recognition, so they're continuing to use it.
- wvdavis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4and now Yahoo is the new AT&T
and now Dish Network / DirecTV is now the new AT&T
and now XM / Sirius radio is now the new AT&T
You know, when you help out Uncle Sam on a little back room skunk works operations it is totally frickin' amazing what can happen for you.
/cynicism - HonoredMule, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Actually, much of the marketing research is illegal too, but in obscure ways and always on the borderline of legality. But at least underhanded business practices only affect consumers who are willing to deal with them, releasing private information to them or someone connected to them (albeit often under false security offered by privacy statements or other assurances). On a government level, the only escape from direct espionage of private information and communication is a change of citizenship to some country America currently has no interest in for any reason.
- motters, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3They committed illegal wire-tapping on a national scale, and got away with it ?
Richard Nixon would be proud. - theodicey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3When the wiretapping scandal originally broke in Wired,
* I wrote AT&T's investor relations to remind them that they were liable for billions in damages, and that I was going to sell my shares of AT&T
* I sold the shares
* I switched my DSL service from AT&T to Earthlink
* and I wrote AT&T Customer Service telling them WHY I was switching, and that I would be happy to join any class action lawsuit against them
Little steps, people. Stop bitching and start doing something. - mekongcola, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Not to sound trite, but any government who is not accountable for it's actions, especially for covertly spying on it's citizenry, is slipping into an authoritarian like rule.
I honestly fear that the very few freedoms we have left in the US will quickly be taken from us in the name of "national security"..... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3They don't want a court to handle it, because they'd be caught with their pants so far down we'd see they ***** themselves.
- GeneralFault, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I understand the frustration, but posting on Digg is only one thing that can and should be done. It is as important to try to persuade the American people that this is wrong as it is to persuade our leaders. The leaders will not act unless there is a large public motion. Digg can help with that.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I agree. The average person feels too helpless and anonymous in US politics. The people who make the decisions are so very far removed from the real people living in their cities, how could they ever really make the right decisions? Wherever they go, people are kissing their ass, and feeding them fancy dinners. When they lie, cheat and steal, they find that people still kiss their ass, and feed them fancy dinners. So why shouldn't they laugh at us and do as they please? Who is to stop them. The people who could do something are too busy making money and keeping their lives normal.
- MadN, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3AT&T was well aware of laws requiring a warrant; AT&T violated our privacy without a warrant.
It does not matter who told them to violate our privacy.
No paper, no legal.
AT&T owes every man, woman and child in the US $5000.00
There is a special court who would have provided a warrant in secret to make this legal.
Next....
Verizon?
Bell South?
I am tired of corporations getting away breaking the law. - waynemr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The Democrats should STOP TRYING TO CORRECT the imbalances put in place by Bush, et. al. Instead, they should use those imbalances to promote their agenda for the next 8-16 years. The Republicans have handed the Democrats so much more power than they have ever had before. So, why try to bottle it back up on the eve of a new Democratically controlled government? The Democrats should spy like ***** without warrants, fire all the conservative judges, use "signing" statements like sonsabitches, whenever some bone is thrown to the Republicans for PR purposes.
Seriously, the Democrats should stop trying to right all of the wrongs instituted by the Republicans and use those powers to decimate the Republicans. - friedman420, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2because thats effective, promoting a product to monitor every citizen in the USA that only like what, 1% can even afford, BRILLIANT!
- friedman420, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2well this is kinda similar to lost in the sense that its also going nowhere
- packetstorm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I hear a lot of bitchin and moaning here but what are any of you going to actually do about it? Not a damn thing.
No I don't like this any better than any of you but other than complaining on DIGG, no one here will do anything to address this issue. And therein lies the problem.
And to think they impeached Clinton for lying about sex in the oval office. Are you kidding me?!?! We know Bush and his cronies lied to get us into freakin' war amongst other things included in this article but has anyone done anything about it yet? NO!!
My nephew is in Iraq and it infuriates me to think about it. - 98acura, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Not according to the rest of the world.. And definitely not by definition of the word "Democratic"
- faskippy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I do not know how much bullying went into it. Neither does anyone else that wasn't involved. I don't feel sorry for AT&T at all. People will do things for money they know is wrong. And every ***** one of them start out thinking they are too smart to get caught. Ask anyone in prison.
- polyGone, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Everyone who uses force to commit a crime is using terrorism. They are simply criminals, which are everywhere. I always hear so much 'liberals are pussies!!', but I am not the one asking for protection. Someone yells terrorist and you guys all cringe and beg for protection. You can't fight an ideal.
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