What is Digg?318 Comments
- Albionshores, on 10/13/2007, -13/+80Short answer 'no'. Slightly longer answer; decent staff should know who the children are, it shouldn't just be their job to make sure the kid qualifies but to know the kid.
- siszam, on 10/10/2007, -20/+75No. Children are taught to go along, not resist, don't cause trouble. They brainwash children, abuse them and now they treat them like criminals. First they start with the poor then they increase their demands and include everyone. What next? Schools taking DNA samples for the state? RFID chips before you can enter a school?
Home school your children. Teach them to think for themselves. - Enochyang, on 10/10/2007, -3/+45"decent staff should know who the children are"
That might work in smaller towns, but this notion is virtually impossible in many city public schools. My high school had well over 4,000 students. - Tack122, on 10/10/2007, -2/+36Honestly I think the best solution would be to allow any kid who wants to eat, to eat.
It would just end up meaning that kids who forget their lunches actually get to eat lunch that day. - Spikito, on 10/10/2007, -3/+33heaven forbid the wrong kids eat lunch
- andrewcsayer, on 10/10/2007, -1/+29Hey we micro-chip dogs - why not kids? Oh, sorry - this debate is 5 years too early
- Akaji, on 10/10/2007, -8/+32It's not tough. The answer is no.
- danconia, on 10/10/2007, -2/+26Why don't they just extend lunch by 10 minutes or something? And why do I have the funny feeling this was a public school?
Elementary school is incredibly boring and I see nothing wrong with taking a simple 10 more minutes out of time that would probably just be used to indoctrinate the children about how "great" the US Government is. - grenden, on 10/10/2007, -3/+25Welcome to 1984. Great way to get the kids into the "system" early, under the innocent-sounding auspices of "getting the kids through the lunch line faster"...like lambs to the slaughter.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -12/+33Damn how much more paranoid can we get.
- fabDisaster, on 10/10/2007, -3/+23My Kids will be fingerprinted upon their first teenage alcohol related crime and not a second sooner
- Jumboto, on 10/10/2007, -1/+20What exactly was wrong with the old school way with giving your kid money to pay for their lunch? Is there really a huge problem with other kids sneaking on campus and eating lunch in elementary? What is the need in the first place for the ID numbers? Where is the principle who will answer my questions? Where's Waldo?
- cactus476, on 10/10/2007, -6/+25Another reason why not - think of the germs.
- hiphoc, on 10/10/2007, -4/+21I thought only criminals were fingerprinted? I love The term lock-down the campus. Sounds like "lock down cell block 4". Having prison conditions used on students is training them for a live in a police state. With the cameras, the police dogs, random searches and pat downs in many schools schools are the new penitentiaries. How much of your child's liberty are you willing to give up for their security? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I want cameras in every state office, every city office and every office in congress. I want to tap the phones of public officials. I want to search Michael Chertoff to make sure he is safe. Who is watching the watchers.
- clear9, on 10/10/2007, -5/+22This is how it starts...
who knows what will come next - fuzzmeister, on 10/10/2007, -3/+20If you hate public schools so much, private schools seem like a better option than homeschooling, if you can afford it. Private schools will most likely give your child a far better education (unless you are an extremely good teacher with great resources), and will keep them from being completely isolated socially.
- vuke69, on 10/10/2007, -2/+19Did the janitor make you that offer every day, or only on special occasions?
- skyfire1, on 10/10/2007, -3/+18I don't care if my future kids end up being serial killers. There's no way in hell I'm trusting the government with their prints.
- TheTaoOfBill, on 10/10/2007, -2/+17Actually I was finger printed when I was in elementry school. I remember it being very fun! We took a field trip to the local police station and the cop showed us around and took our finger prints and let us make art with our still inked fingers.
- mrdeathgod, on 10/10/2007, -1/+15Give them a keychain fob or some little plastic RFID thing. No good excuse for even considering the fingerprinting option.
- fuzzmeister, on 10/10/2007, -3/+17If they wanted to just use it for in-school identification, couldn't they just store a hash of the fingerprint data, which would prevent an actual image of the fingerprint from being stored? If that could be done so the algorithm couldn't be reverse-engineered, that would seem to be a good compromise between privacy and convenience.
- sintaxi, on 10/10/2007, -5/+18then they tazered you
- johnpaul191, on 10/10/2007, -0/+13my school had that when we were kids, but the prints were given directly to our parents (as in the parents were there when it happened). it was some sort of passport looking thing to track a lost kid that had vital stats, the current year school pic and fingerprints. this was back in the 80s though..... and come to think of it, i'm pretty sure it was optional?
- texxmexx, on 10/10/2007, -10/+21It is not tough at all. We should treat everyone like a criminal staring with the children. Come on, guilty until proven innocent, tasered until proven innocent, its the amerikkan way!
I got a better idea, let's put RFID chips in the kids faces and if they refuse execute them on the spot! ALL HAIL THE AMERICAN MODEL FOR A PRISON PLANET.
This issue isn't tough unless you have naziesque tendencies. - XISUPERMANIX, on 10/10/2007, -6/+17NO. School already looks and feels like a prison. Some have a cage on the outside of windows, plastic windows, security cameras everywhere. You must be in a line when going places. Some old schools have additions called annexes where all the walls are made up of cinder blocks painted white. Stuff like that is boring, I hated learning in an environment like that.plus all the straight out of the book crap where you just read and answer questions. Schools should encourage creative teaching, make learning fun instead of the conventional "Crap I better remember this for the test".
- cdmarcus, on 10/10/2007, -1/+12My school just used a PIN number you could type into a keypad... now they use a student ID card with a barcode. Either way works, and doesn't require sacrificing too much privacy.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Germs are good for your immune system.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Your notion that homeschooling makes children stupid is absurd. I was homeschooled myself, and you don't see me dropping spelling and grammar mistakes all over the place.
Of course, that assumes one is homeschooled for an education. If you're homeschooled because of your parents insane religious beliefs, well, good luck in the real world. - EllimistX, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10Break into a fingerprint security safe?
- JD52, on 10/10/2007, -8/+17They might as well. The way things are going most are going to be fingerprinted by the police anyways. Might as well save them the time.
- tropican8, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10At first when I read your comment I doubted whether Elementary schoolers would have their views on authority influenced by such a device. Then I re-read the article and saw they are installing these fingerprint machines at High schools too. Funny how picturing kids a little older completely changes how one views the situation. This is unacceptable for people who in some cases are only a year away from being an adult.
- stklaw, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10Nose picking FTW
- pw378, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9Fingerprints are not passwords as they are never an 'exact' match, but rather on minimal variance between samples. Hashing would never work, since each time you give a fingerprint sample, the resulting hash value would not be usable to find a proximate match.
- askegg, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10The initial problem was the kids inability to remember long digits - what made leaping to biometrics the obvious solution?
Authentication can be broken into three parts - what you know, what you are, and what you have. If the kids are having problems with "what they know", then how about changing what they are meant to remember? 6 digits too long - can we make 4 work, or are the combinations needed to cover the population?
Better yet - move to "what they have" instead. Swipe cards, tokens, bar codes on student ID, etc are far easier that trying to remember a 6 digit number and less invasive than biometrics.
The efforts required for protection should reflect the *value* of what we are protecting. What are we trying to protect here - school lunches? - DalamarS, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9Indeed. Solve it with technology that doesn't compromise privacy. It does exist.
- Herostratos, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9But then, this was not a high school.
I don't live in America so I don't know your system but what is wrong with each person paying for his own food? With, you know, money? Instead of showng ID cards and fingerprints and all such bollocks. - l33tspam, on 10/10/2007, -5/+13You're dumb.
- fnaqzna, on 10/10/2007, -3/+11god?
God has no place in public school. - colincornaby, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10You guys seriously think that a school using a fingerprint to let kids buy lunch is the beginning of some evil scheme? C'mon. Even if the government got your fingerprint, what the hell do you think they'd do with it anyway? It's a fingerprint!
- SiNN4R, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9Yeah public schools are really technically adept. I went to a public schools and they couldn't even keep kids from selling meth in class. the teacher would pretend not to notice. Those are the people you expect to protect children's privacy rights?
- bruenig, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8The article was not about a way to keep those wily kindergarteners from stealing lunches, it was about speeding up the line, so um rtfa I guess.
- zyklon, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9In Massachusetts (I'm not sure if it's a country-wide thing), in 3rd grade we get fingerprinted so if we get kidnapped (Or generally go missing), we can be found through forensic fun. In other words, even if they fingerprint us for lunch-related purposes, we're still getting printed way back when.
- reyalp, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7smokin the reefer
- Disodium, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Because if you extend lunch by 10 minutes your not just doing 1 10 minute extension, your doing 4 or 5 at least, since the hundreds of kids are not eating at the exact same time so now your having to pay ALL the employees that make the lunch happen that much more. And we all know schools have small enough budgets as is.
- ClOlD, on 10/10/2007, -3/+10Although I hate the idea of children, especially considering how many people there already are in this country/on this planet, I'm slightly looking forward to that condom breaking so that I can finally go to some PTA meetings and rip the asses off all these protectionist asshats.
It's GOOD for Jimmy to choose to blend into a crowd and not be tracked AT ALL, if that's what he wants. It's GOOD for Jimmy to learn that you shouldn't go down a 20-foot sheet-metal slide at noon (unless he wants to show how tough he is). It's GOOD for Jimmy to play tag without getting accused of sexually harassing the 9-year-old girl he slapped on the pre-pube-tit.
On second thought, I'm getting a vasectomy. - JoshuaGross, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Yeah, Microsoft and Yahoo protected their data too. It's not worth crap when the government comes banging on your door.
I mean, wiretapping was only used on known or suspected terrorists.... right? - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -3/+10If you want to have the convenience of finger prints and still protect privacy there IS a solution. Cryptographic Hashing. A hash is a one way function that turns a set of data (points of a fingerprint) into a fixed length block of data. Strong hashes can not be reversed or guessed. There is no way to take a hash and extract the original data (a fingerprint) out of it. However, the same finger will produce the same exact hash every time.
Here is how it would work. The scanner scans the finger and records the points of the firgerprint as a series of numbers. These numbers are then hashed with an algorithim like WHIRLPOOL or SHA-256 (don't use md5) to make a block of data. That block of data is then compared with a database to see if it verifies. Once again, there is no way to extract the fingerprint from the hash. It is similar to a lossy video compression (only much more secure), the original can never recalculated.
Everyone wins. Thanks to crypto! - AlanLivingston, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8"The fingerprints "never leave the school". It isn't for the state..."
The fingerprints never leave the school until a subpoena is served. Let's see... Who serves subpoenas? Oh yeah, the state. - shortkookyllama, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6There are a number of kids that are on free or assisted lunch program, based usually on parent's income status. They aren't just given money for the food, they are usually just on a list. (My school did tickets as a way of keeping track of those.) The whole point of free/assisted lunches is so that kids can actually get a decent meal and will perform better in school because they won't be starving ( the decency"food" they serve is debatable.) But in general every school has a different system, some make you everyone buy/pick up their meal tickets prior to lunch, some schools just put everything on kids i.d. cards,
- doramajoo, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8It doesn't mean they will stay with the school, always.
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