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111 Comments
- spectre, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Pentagon:
"Oops, sorry we got caught! We'll delete our main DB immediately!"
*waits until everyone is gone*
"Now where's that backup?" - ParanoiaAgent, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5How do you mistakenly spy on organizations for months and months? There lack of interest in making their excuse even remotely plausible is appalling.
- clevershark, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It's amazing the extent to which the most paranoid opinions about the US government have turned out to be right on the ball.
- Braamer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3American policy is Hegemony. If morphing the US into a police state is necessary to compete with the rising force that is China, It will happen. As has been shown, America will stop at nothing to remain on top.
As a US citizen living abroad, I have gained new perspective on the power of threatening a populations standard of living in order to manipulate legislation. Nowhere else in the world have I found such paranoia, such unreasonable fear of phantom threats, as back home. When on top, you start to think everyone wants to knock you off. What an advantage our government has over its population, controling not by force, but by fueling an all-unifying paranoia. Everyone hangs on every single carfully scripted word that comes out of our puppet presidents mouth. We get our credit cards, and our car payments, and our cell phones, and our ISP's and a thousand other ways to inevitably be "on the grid", until its not possible to live OFF the grid without regressing to some primitive ape-like state. And so it goes, at the end of the day, in true 1984 style, almost everyone forgets they even had privacy. - drosdin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Yeah!
Lets stand up for our rights! (as long as no one takes a picture of us standing or can in any way determine it was us who were there).
Lets have our voices heard! (as long as no one keeps track of what it was we said or who was saying it)
Quit being cowards and start being patriots. You want the government to hear your protests? You want them to listen to you? You want them to pay attention to what you have to say?
Then don't be suprised if they find out who you are and evaluate your argument! You got what you wanted: they know who you are and are listening to what you have to say.
No, wait, they determined you were of no consequence, so now their going to forget all about you and delete your entry from their DB. Their NOT keeping track of you marginalizes your argument and makes you irrelevant.
John Handcock that wrote his name on the Declaration of Independance so large that King George wouldn't have to wear his glasses to read it. Sounds like a man who didn't care if the government he disagreed with knew who he was and that he disagreed.
So, yeah, fight the patriot act or fight the war, or whaterver it is you don't like. Email your congress primate, but do it from your own account and not the one that can't be traced back to you that you give out to spammers. Put your return address on the snail mail letter. Call from your own phone and leave a message, instead of using the pay phone down the street and just breathing heavy.
Quit being afraid that someone will hear you and take notice, because if you truly believe what you believe then you WANT them to take notice. Otherwise you're just a stupid poser who spouts off just to impress the other anonymous posers. - spectre, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"lets live like londoners and have cameras on every street corner."
Not sure if you're aware of this, but the U.S. has quite a few major cities fairly covered in government controlled cameras.
But don't just take my word for it:
http://www.public-cio.com/story.php?id=2005.11.11-97246
Research. It's a beautiful thing. - AttroPheed, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3they'll never penetrate my tinfoil hat.
- Tom_Riddle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2hahaha anyone living in America is a tool. U can't live in America and not be controlled by "the man" this proves that most of you are very young. most young ppl don't understand. U r the government. We as americans create laws every day. u don't like it, fight it. and if that doesn't work. leave. but don't bitch about it. that will get u nowhere.
- heatmiser, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2>>Why are you so supportive when the liberty you are trying to defend so patriotically is being threatened by no other that your own government.
I think the liberty he's trying to defend is the freedom not to be intimidated or blown up by Islamo-Facists. The fact that a government agency misuses its power suprises you? You think your own government, whichever that happens to be, isn't slowly creeping towards having more information on you?
As the worlds' overall level of technology increases, so will its various governments be drawn towards using that technology to monitor its citizens. For every example of American misuse of power, I can point to many more around the world. Its not an American issue, its a world issue.
1000 years ago no government of a major county could possibly hope to catalogue even basic information on all its citizens by modern standards. In 1000 years what governments now know about us will pale in comparison. - deesnutz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Why the {G}rowing concern about privacy? {O}ur government protects us. {D}emocracy can not run free without some rights being steped on. {H}eck I don't have a problem with it. It's not {E}vil. {L}iberals nor conservatives are the problem. We are {P}round citizens of the {U}nited {S}tates of America.
If you understand what I am saying ...
blink once. No, all is fine, seriously. - artur.ventura, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6From europe, I must say that americans are loosing their freedom. Today my news.google shows a news about the patriot act being changed to allow pick into private medical records. This is something familiar with germany in 1933 when people start loosing their freedom too. But hey, you choosed Bush. An also, this is just an opinion from europe.
- monolith, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3 synthesist, you truly are an idiot. You actually think your safe from government excesses because you live under Canadian rule? Give me a fracking break... uh... let see... the largest corruption scandal in Canada was broken by... uh and AMERICAN blog... because those free speech loving Canadians barred anyone from talking about it in public. Nice. Take the blinders off.
- dongiaconia, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4We choosed[sic] Bush? Hmm, I think I can safely say the majority of people reading digg are not the ones that chose him. But thats just a guess.
- jayf, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4You Americans are like the proverbial frog in a pot of water, getting cooked to death (or in your case having your freedoms revoked one by one) so slowly you don't even notice it.
- TimmyK., on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Oh, and if there is anyone you can trust it's the Pentagon. I think they will "expunge" the database right around the same time that they find the WMD's in Iraq.
And to the European above who says that we are losing our freedoms HOW DARE YOU COMPARE WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE US TO THE RISE OF THE NAZIS IN 1930's GERMANY!... even if it is an extremely valid, and accurate comparison. We just don't like hearing that a small group of greedy control freaks are using guilt, bigotry, religion, and so called morality to gain control and then using that control to slowly whittle away our liberties. We won't like hearing it right up until Bush is declared our permanent furh.. uh I mean leader, which should be in about three years. - nnonix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think its funny that the same people who are so mad about the govt. searching for terrorists within our borders are the same people who criticized the govt. for not stopping 9/11 before it happened.
Stop crazies .... just stop typing. - carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1the media is supposed to be the one policing the police by informing the general public of such abuses, but now the media are the ones paying in part for the abuse, and are too busy convincing you you need to buy the latest crap they sell so they're doing good to even be able to inform you about how all the evil people are stealing music and movies
- dongiaconia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Wow, the Pentagon must have erased that message above, it comes up blank... They **ARE** watching us!
- Mabu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I RTFA and I didn't see anywhere where they admitted they were going to expunge the database. In fact, it says just the opposite. Officials defended the need to maintain the database and merely issued a blanket statement saying if there was any wrong info, they would remove it, but that doesn't mean anything... they can claim anything they have on file is important. Nothing will be deleted.
- Pizpump, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"The Pentagon can spy on me all it wants to. If it means spying on me to catch the bad guys, I'm all for it. - posted by ghengiskhan (0) at 09:23 PM 12/14/05"
The problem with that, lemming, is that who and what defines a "bad guy"?
You're a fool and a coward. I'd rather have my privacy & freedom & risk another 9/11 then enter into a police state.
I'll die before I give up my freedom. - sandrino, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1We are spying on you for your own good. If you have nothing to hide you will not object. Civil rights and privacy are not as important as safety. If you are a real patriotic American, you will support the Pentagon and this Administration. You can trust us, we wouldn't lie to you.
- dongiaconia, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Was that a parody comment? I'm confused about your definition of Freedom and Liberty...
- MindTrigger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@ghengiskhan
"The Pentagon can spy on me all it wants to. If it means spying on me to catch the bad guys, I'm all for it."
And there you have it folks. This guy has completely bought into the machine. Expect to see many more dumb cow comments like this as years pass.
The point is, people, our government is supposed to find ways to "protect" us WITHOUT taking away our liberties. They are supposed to use technology to increase their knowledge, WITHOUT hacking into my computer at home to look at pictures of my kid playing soccer. I don't want to have to produce my "papers" (National ID Card) when I am out and around town, nor do I want my every friggin move to be tracked.
I understand that there are times, during emergencies, where my liberties may have to be limited for SHORT amounts of time while a specific threat is being handled. However, I do not want to live my day to day life in a way that makes me feel like a suspect, or that I don't really have any privacy. - essrog, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1For me, the valuable part about this story is the admission from the Pentagon it was a mistake.
It would be nice if this put an end to that bogus "nothing to worry about if you've got nothing to hide" line (but of course it won't) - CoyotesFan84, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@MindTrigger
You fail to realize that there is no "true privacy" in America. You either have to deal with that, or move on. I understand your point of privacy infringement for brief periods of time for emergencies, but to be honest, privacy is a thing of the past. Both the circumvention of technology and the fallout of the cold war have lead the world to a global state of tention. Either A) you can understand that your government has an interest in keeping you safe, albiet at the expense of a small amount of personal freedom, or B) become a paranoid raving lunatic and think the govt. is out to get everyone. If you're not doing anything wrong, you really don't have anything to be worried about, true? And always remember, you'll go to sleep tonight and wake up tomorrow and not have to worry about being kidnapped/raped/tortured or having your family killed, etc. by your government. Times have changed. People need to come to that realization. - cheese06, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1lets live like londoners and have cameras on every street corner.
- TimmyK., on 10/12/2007, -1/+2jasqwerty you are a total idiot.
positron you are a complete idiot.
Anyone who still thinks this is about petty little meaningless things like Republican vs. Democrat is a tool. Anyone who considers themself a conservative and yet supports Bush is an even bigger tool, and actually has absolutely no idea what a conservative is supposed to be. Anyone who thinks that opening something like your medical records up to scrutiny by anyone who doesn'y have your permission is okay deserves to lose all their privacy and liberty. The old adage is that if you give them an inch they'll take a mile. Well the Bush administration has already taken that mile, strip mined it, and put up an oil rig on it. Let's not give them any more. Do you hate your freedoms so much that you want to be rid of them completely? - positron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@TimmyK
Uh. I agree with everything you said, except the part about me being an idiot. Care to explain why you believe so? Also, I suggest using some facts in your explanation rather than relying on character assassination It's really not necessary to attack me if you disagree with something I said. If you think I'm wrong about something explain what it is and why I'm wrong.
kthxbye - knowizard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1>
Naw, the Democrats suck just as much as the Republicans, just in different ways. Remember Madeline Albright wanting to put our "marvelous military" to use? - positron, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@TimmyK, Smarterdanu, et. al
Here's MY "preemptive attack" RE: my comments about Lincoln, in case I'm not back to respond later.
"He had his political enemies arrested and deported..."
Frances Key Howard, grandson of Frances Scott Key, was a newspaper editor who criticized Lincoln. He was thrown into military prison at Fort McHenry in Baltimore – the very place where his grandfather wrote "The Star Spangled Banner" – without being charged, without a warrant and just left to languish there for a while. He was eventually deported out of the country. Ohio Congressman Clement Vallandigham, General Ambrose E Burnside, and many others followed.
"...instituted martial law..."
Anyone who disputes this simply hasn't read any history. Not worth debating.
"...suspended the constitution..."
Ditto
"...instigated an unnecessary war against the southern states..."
This, of course is debatable. It is, however, my opinion. If you believe the Civil War was about freedom for slaves, you have to contend with Lincoln himself who said during the Lincoln-Douglas debates "I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races, and I have never said anything to the contrary."
"...and forever consolidated power within the federal government in blatant defiance of the principals of our founding fathers."
Lincoln's masterful manipulation of the nation's money supply through his Legal Tender Act and National Currency Bill federalized our economy and, in the words of the current reporters at the New York Times, "...crystallized a centralization of power such as Hamilton might have eulogized as magnificent."
"It is BECAUSE of Lincoln's disregard for the rights of the people that we have the Posse Comitatus..."
Title 10, Section 332 of the Insurrection Act was enacted in 1861 at the request of President Abraham Lincoln to increase presidential authority to use the militia and the regular army to suppress "insurrections" and enforce the laws. It was because of the brutality with which this act was enforced against ultimately innocent civilians that our current Posse Comitatus laws were created.
So again, what exactly did I say that is BS? - sabbac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Who watches the watchers of the watchers?"
I dunno, Coast Guard? - cryptocom, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Funny how these only become 'mistakes' when someone outside the 'circle' finds out.
- BadDolphin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1BeNow Inc. has a contract with the government to maintain a database of all US high school students, specifically for military recruiting purposes. It could also be an effective tool in tracking draft resisters, should it come to that. But it's nothing to worry about, they've not come for your kids... yet.
Someone mentioned Clinton, predictably. Many on both ends of the political divide opposed his health care plan primarily because of its database requirements. - Bitgod, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'd comment, but they're watching me.
- guywmustang, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1See... they wouldn't have done anything but collect more information is someone hadn't ratted them out. And after everyone quits looking, they WILL probably backup & collect some more...
I mean, safety is one thing, but you shouldn't have to give up freedoms in the nature of security. That was said by one of the founding fathers of this country, in a paraphrased way.
Our dissolved freedoms is astonishing, and the fact that people are ignorant to it, or don't even care is what's worse. - heatmiser, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1>>There ARE people from the US moving to Canada and Europe. But you never, ever hear about that on the news in the US, and you never will, no matter how bad things get.
That number is truly miniscule compared to the amount of immigration we have. There will always be a certain level of normal county to country moving around becuase of work,personal relationship etc. But the MASSIVE amount of (mostly illegal) immigration America is undergoing is far, far above that expected nominal amount. - Smarterdanu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1positron
You put out BS and then tell people to prove it wrong. No one cares to waste time arguing over ridiculous *****. - synthesist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@mgreenwald
[quote]Why is this wrong?! anyone who doesn't like America, Freedom, Liberty or some combination of is a terrorist or a communist and needs to be sent to France. Clearly the Pentagon is acting in our best interest and I don't approve of protesters either in fact I hate them but I will defend with my life their right to do it which is why I am enlisting in the USMC.[quote]
Why are you so supportive when the liberty you are trying to defend so patriotically is being threatened by no other that your own government.
@zelig
I'm not sick of it, but that's just because we are superior. :P Culturally we're better and economically we're right up there. Get rid of Texas and America will have a chance of not being the egotistical country that once in a while decides to invade other countries in the name of Liberty and Manifest Destiny.
I'm just curious, but why do Americans keep putting up with ***** like this from the "Democratic" Government that is supposed to be following the will of the people they represent. - BSpolice, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Aaaah digg. T'aint no place better for a large helping of textual diarrhea.
- synthesist, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I like how the gov't uses clever wording. "Patriot" Act. So if you opose the Patriot Act you oppose America.
- drjones, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Hehe of all the ***** in this digg I have to say that Lincoln caused the civil war is the best, that's like saying the police are to blame for a shootout when they try to stop a bank robbery and the perps open fire.
Not to mention it is irrelevant, Lincoln faced a ^*&#$@&*ing civil war with a good percentage of the population willing to die to destroy the union. We face a handfull of fundamentalists primarily based outside the US. This is not a civil war. It's not even a 'war' unless you consider the war on drugs a 'war' in which case our great-great-great granchildren will still be under martial law.
The future is a boot stepping on your face, forever.
(with apologies to mr. orwell)
-drjones - synthesist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0***** hypocrites. all you ***** tools that say "America the land of the proud and free, except for that part about our government ignoring the rules it set in the first place"
To all you douchebags that live by the "Wealth of Nations" style capitalism: you are the idiots that unfortunately outnumber the people that are capable of independent thought.
@monolith
True Canada has its share of corruption and scandal in government. But Canadians are usually smart enough to stand up to a dick move by the U.S. (i.e. invading Iraq). - ImmortalSoldier, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You know that this was a story leaked to the press, just to make some fuzz. They have tons of other spying crap all over the place. It wont be leaked till its useless to them.
- Braamer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"Considering out vast nuclear capability, if we truly wanted to dominate the world we could have followed in Japan or Germany's footsteps long ago and consumed our neighbors, and then spread out to the rest of the world. The fact that we havent, and they are still exist and are under our umbrella of protection despite constant whining and complaining shows how benevolent America is compared to others with great power who have come before us in the past."
First, Its mighty tough to flex that US ambivolence point to the families of the 30,000 foreign and 2150 domestic victims our latest nation-building extravaganza. But I'm sure you trust our president who routinely talks to GOD, has everything worked out in his head.
Second, Its quite apparent that you, like so many other americans, refuse to beleive your glorious standard of living is the result of the heavy, pseudo-righteous hand of US policy. While we certainly didnt nuke all of our neighbors, a tactic that would inevitably falter due to things like NUCLEAR WINTER, we instead took the much more sly approach of economic policies weighted heavily to our favor, and convieniently supporting foreign leaders who pander to US interest. We dont need to expand or nuke anyone, because we have the much more effective tactic of fleecing the rest of the world for our benefit.
Now, comes the part that you will find hard to understand. I, an american, appreciate this distorted foreign policy. I love that I can make a mint back at home, and travel through the world with my easily earned money. I think its great that the US government is out there making sure I stay wealthy. I am glad our leaders live ruthlessly, so I can live decadently.
The distinction between you and I... Although at times it may be hard to swallow, I freely admit to being a part of that immoral machine. Anyone who beleives the US is some global protector, some righteous, gleaming beacon of all that is good, and moral, and just... Well, its too late, you are already lost, but I wish you the best of luck in finding reality. - monolith, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1First, it is Reuters. Take everything in the story with a grain of salt (a fracking huge one) then double check their ass. You'll find inaccuracies and maybe a couple out right lies. Trust the press and they will bite you every time, either out of bias, laziness, incompetence or varying combinations of all three.
Oh, yea, the USA has it's problems, so I encourage those of you that want to leave to get the frack out. The sooner the better. Bye. - heatmiser, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0>>Second, Its quite apparent that you, like so many other americans, refuse to beleive your glorious standard of living is the result of the heavy, pseudo-righteous hand of US policy. While we certainly didnt nuke all of our neighbors, a tactic that would inevitably falter due to things like NUCLEAR WINTER, we instead took the much more sly approach of economic policies weighted heavily to our favor, and convieniently supporting foreign leaders who pander to US interest. We dont need to expand or nuke anyone, because we have the much more effective tactic of fleecing the rest of the world for our benefit
DUH.. you dont think EVERY SINGKLE OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD works adamantly to further its own goals? What planet do you live on!? They are SUPPOSED to! And we didnt have to nuke our Neighbors.. we could have swallowed them up the old fashioned way like Japan and Germany did. Who could have stopped us? No one.. so again my point remains. Thank god, or fate, or whatever you want to call it that America dominates.
Heaven help us all if the the UN were to be the dominate force on Earth.. even as we debate this topic Iran's leader has recently denied the Holocaust and threatened to destroy Israel and is working towards getting Nukes.. do you see the UN raise one stinkin finger in protest? again.. truly pathetic. - mcbesq, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@coyotesfan
My point is that patriot and terrorist are merely words, dependent on a point of view.
We view the enemy soldiers in Iraq as "terrorists." They view themselves as "patriots" fighting an occupying force.
Likewise, the British view the Irish separatists as terrorists, just as the Russians viewed the Chechyans as terrorists.
Of course, Americans were some of the earliest terrorists. How else would you characterize the guerrila tactics of the rebel forces, which regularly attacked economic targets? It all depends on your perspective.
As far as your claim that there is no "true privacy" in this country, that's debatable. Blind faith in your government keeping you safe forms the paving stones for the road to dictatorship. You should always question the government, if only to keep it in check.
I suspect you are a Republican. Take a page from Reagan's playbook. Trust but verify. If you want to trust the government, that is your choice. However, you should never stop questioning its motives or authority through legal channels.
Calling someone a "terrorist" without adequately defining the term is a dangerous thing. If you don't think so, ask Jose Padilla. Jose Padilla is a natural-born American citizen who was deemed an "enemy combatant" following a sting operation conducted by the FBI. At no point in his attempts to secure a "dirty bomb" was Jose Padilla ever dealing with any real terrorists - i.e. a party connected to Al-Qaeda. Jose Padilla was arrested on US soil, deemed an "enemy combatant," and denied due process to challenge that determination. Until this year, he was never charged with a crime, and the DOJ even stated that it had no intention of ever charging him with a crime. In short, his right to habeas corpus was stripped from him.
No due process. No habeas corpus. All because of an undefined term that the US government used. The Supreme Court has granted certiorari to hear the case.
Terrorism and patriotism are merely words that can be used by anyone with an agenda. Perhaps the Iraqi insurgents are terrorist patriots. Or maybe they're patriotic terrorists. Maybe we are the terrorists.
Beware of words. They can be powerful weapons. - heatmiser, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0>> Oh I'm leaving just have to wait till 08.. then I will be GONE.... on ward to Mexico!!
Too funny.. we have millions of Illegals coming across the border every year because Mexico is such a wonderful place, right? That bastion on liberty and opportunity!? Get Real.. You act as if Mexico has some sort of noble history fighting for its citizens' rights. That place is ***** up big time.
And besides, you think if Mexico actually had a fraction of the spying power that America has they wouldn't use it? Are we talking about the same Mexico famous for its corrupt officials? Why on Earth wouldn't they spy on you if they could? The reason Mexico has less personal surveillance is because they can barely operate their cities correctly, let along worry about more esoteric goals like the supposed "Totalitarian State" that a lot of people here seem to think America is heading to. - AbsentLight, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0dammit, between this and the rfid credit cards, I'm running out of aluminum foil.
- pgm_01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0All your (data)base are belong to U.S.
The have "accidental" collected data from airlines that they were not entitled to on multiple occasions. Now they "accidentally" collected info on citizens. They "accidentally" tortured prisoners, "accidentally" invaded another nation while "accidentally" accepting illegal campaign contributions and "accidentally" revealed the name of a CIA operative.
Clinton had an affair with an intern and Republicans wet themselves trying to prove how morals matter. Where is the morality? When did it become acceptable to create classes of people for whom rights don't exist? When did security trump rights?
This nation faced down the biggest evil empire since spears were state of the art technology (not the communists but the Nazis) without diluting the bill of rights. The current crop of terrorists are nothing but suicidal thugs. They have a limited pool of recruits (that has increased thanks to US action). They have no real structure and only a vague goal (destroying the US and its allies). This pales in comparison to the war machine of the Nazis and yet this is the time to suspend rights?
Bush and the neocons need an enemy. They live in a binary world where everything can be split into two sides, one side good the other evil, one side winners, the other losers. In order to be on the winning side you need to play as dirty as the other side. If they torture we must torture. If they refuse to allow morals to hinder them and play outside of the law, then we must do the same. Until the war on terrorism is under new management, Americans will lose more rights. -
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