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31 Comments
- Web_Weasel, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21Real gamblers go here http://www.tdameritrade.com/ to lose money.
- musteval, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17No, it's in their best interest to keep it seemingly fair and clean.
- rimco, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11The idea of playing for real money online is kinda shady as it is... Gambling is a heavily regulated business for a reason (I'm a former casino employee... it's crazy!), and I doubt online gambling sites face the same strict regulations.
- Saintlink, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Another good reason why NOT to download software from 3rd parties. Stick to well known comercial or open-source platforms or enter at your own risk...
- wilwheaton, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Digg has come a long way in a very short time, and I find myself reading it more and more . . . but I'll always be a TotalFarker at heart.
I can Digg and Fark, as long as they're in different tabs . . . right? Don't make me choose! You're tearing me apart!!
/annnd scene. - minoss, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8You are right, they don't. However, that doesn't mean they are going to steal your money. Many of the big names in online poker like Party Poker or Poker Stars are quite secure (so long as software doesn't steal your password). PartyGaming is even traded on the London Stock Exchange. I personally keep tens of thousands of dollars in these online sites as I am a professional poker player, and I have no fear that my money is going to disappear.
I do believe the US needs to stop preventing these poker sites from becoming more legitimate. Instead of regulating these sites, the US bans them. Now there is legislation aimed at banning users of online gambling sites in some states. As if telling people how they spend/lose their money is the government's job. Plus, it is not even remotely enforceable. - iamdb, on 03/26/2008, -2/+6They don't have the same regulations, but as far as poker sites go, it is in their best interest to keep it fair and clean.
- 3Den, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Gambling is heavily regulated partly to create a beurocracy and get lots of money out of it. (Yes, and to protect people.)
But realistically, you are responsible for making your own decisions about your money. If you feel a poker room or casino or bookie is unfair, it is ultimately YOUR responsibility not to play there, it's that simple. Sure, regulation is good.. it helps,but in the end, YOU have to decide.
Internet gambling organizations have asked to be regulated in the past... and been refused.
Several are large publicly traded companies, and although yes, they may be "grey-area" as far as the US government is concerned, in every other respect they are fully reportable, auditable, public companies.. and they don't get to the size they are by stealing from customers and rigging their games. They get them by providing consistant service, being good to their customers (And yes, that means people who lose money to the company).
That said, there are definatley dodgy operations out there.. just like there are dodgy sellers on ebay, and dodgy business deals in real life. You have to use your own research and judgement.
My take:
of all online gambling.. the online casino games are the stupidest. It's not the same thing, you are basically playing a straight up random number generator.
Online Sports betting.. Logical, naturally suited to online work. You can look at your options, choose your bets, review them, and then accept them. It's hard for a bookie to 'cheat'... as the odds and payoffs are up-front, and the games are public. The people you watch out for here are operations that won't pay you when you win, and are otherwise financially unstable (those who spend your post-up money to finance their business, and who can't afford to pay you should the house go on a losing streak). This doesn't happen with large, public operations. It can and does happen with SOME smaller operations.
Online Casinos.... makes lots of money, but what's wrong with people? You are playing against a pure random number generator, or sometimes worse... sometiems online blackjack or other normal card games are actually run more like slot machines.... the house take is guaranteed, the payouts rigged. By this I mean yes, the house always pays out the advertised percentage... but they enforce it, rather than having it be purely random, as they do with slot machines. This is bad for you, as a gambler. Not all, or even a majority, of online casinos do this.
Online Poker - Great idea.. works well, takes out some of the human element. Yes, there is a higher instance of collusion.. but in the end, if people think your tables are filled with cheaters, they won't play there, and that's bad for business. Cheaters hurt the house, so why cheat?
As for the house cheating.. it's unlikely. A discovery like this would cost them their business and they don't need to cheat, as they have a guaranteed percentage (the 'rake'). There is no risk to the house in poker. - sert, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I have never put money into an online poker site as it stands but these companies are becoming big business. And they do have a legit stream of profits that come from taking a small rake from each pot.
I figure the big sites would be relatively safe as long as you take all the precautions you would with any online transaction, including doing research on the service's reputation. I'd put it a small amount first to test it out and be safe though. - rhyno2000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I've been playing at one of the biggest sites for a few years, and one of the up-and-comers for the last 5 months. I've been able to pay for my honeymoon in Hawaii and start my daughter's college fund thanks to the online game.
Not posting here to brag (I'm still just a good, not great, player), but to say that all the media distortion about how crooked the game is, just isn't true. People can and do make money (some full-time livings) playing poker online.
Poker is really one of the only forms of gambling where you're NOT a slave to the all-devouring house advantage. You're playing other people (while the house takes a cut for hosting). If you can outplay those other people, you win.
Could there be chicanery, tomfoolery and shenanigans? Possibly. But the occasional shill, and the rumored "juiced" random number generator schemes (designed to create more action, larger pots and bigger rakes) won't measurably impact a good player's results.
A run of bad beats will make people say, and believe, a lot of things.
Anyway, what was the topic? Oh yeah, poker trojan. Errrrm, scan EVERYTHING with updated defs *immediately* after downloading, and keep that firewall up 24/7... duh.
But the "online poker is fixed" rub is beat. If it were, there'd be a ton more complaining, and people would have stopped playing (after almost 4 years, it's as big as ever). 87,090 people right now on Party Poker alone would tend to disagree. - smokeyghetto, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2CoolWind , the problem with your theory would be that with tens of thousands of people playing, they would have to have a hundereds of people shilling. If the poker company was to have one disgruntled shill, they would have to eliminate them from the planet so they wouldn't talk.
The rakes are so valuable that they don't have to cheat.
Go to a site and look at the rake and do the math.
Its a no overhead business with constant income.No reason to cheat.
All the reason to regulate and tax. How do you think Vegas exist in all its glory.
Dont think like a bully trying to get some extra lunch money, You will eventually get beat up by a more powerfull person. Think of it as being smart and staying legal to get the money the easy the legit way. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2What about people who pay a monthly or yearly fee to play games? Like WOW or XBox Live. Are they idiots? Well, that's up to you. But some people gamble online for entertainment and can set a limit for themselves. $40/month is what some people play to game online - if you gamble this away in a month, what have you lost in comparison?
- sublime, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Story posted by Wil Wheaton, cool. Hey Wil, do you prefer Digg to Fark now?
- satori3000, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3holy crap it's True! Wil's landed here!
- satori3000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I was at a beer-up held here in Toronto that Drew Curtis came to and he seems happy enough at the cross pollination of both stories and membership. These are different sites with different agendas they can completely co-exist, I'm glad I can visit both... and back to regularly scheduled on topic comments.
- pokerboy323, on 03/12/2009, -0/+1yeah you have to be careful with this stuff and only visit the most trusted sites.
http://onlinepokeradvantage.com - VMark, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Often when playing online you see the "This site is rigged" comment anytime someone catches a bad beat. Most "odd" things you see in online poker can easily be explained by the fact that you are seeing 10x more hands an hour (if not more) and people play A LOT looser online, making more calls when they normally wouldn't thus catching more cards.
- Figgy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Many of the card rooms such as Party Poker and Ultimate Bet are publicly traded companies. They need to make themselves open to 3rd party audits and checks, which should guarantee some amount of regulation and fairness. With all the money at stake (PartyGaming IPO'd at 9.1 billion, yes billion) its a sure bet these companies will lobby hard to keep gaming safe and 'above' the table.
If you do play online, you should give yourself every advantage you can by using a opponent profiler or odds calculator - http://www.pokulator.com/pokulator-pro/pro.html - PrometheuZ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://www.checkraised.com/site/apps/rbcalc/rbcalc.php
- rimco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Somehow the phrase "digg and fark" is tickling that dirty-minded nerve in my brain...
- rimco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13Den, you're right, there are a lot of regs and immense taxes on gambling... I live in Joliet, IL, home to two of the largest Midwest casinos. The income tax on all of their revenue is 70% to the state, not to mention a healthy bit to the city as well. Lemme tell ya though, Joliet used to be a decrepit, ghetto of a town, and now it's blossoming into a really decent place to live thanks to all of the money the casinos provide. Besides, if the casinos weren't making enough money to make their business worthwhile (even with the massive taxes), they wouldn't be here... and I honestly have no idea why I'm so off-topic... this was about online gambling, dammit! Bad rimco! Bad! Oh, and if you think that payout percentages in real-life casinos are at all random, think again... they're quite carefully controlled by a computer system, and that percentage can be altered literally with the press of a button... trust me, I know ;) Each spin is specifically calculated.
- ArcticCelt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"...If the poker company was to have one disgruntled shill, they would have to eliminate them from the plane..."
Who says you need a real player? Just make a bot do that. They can even implement some chat bot features like saying "nh" "gg" etc.. It would be very easy. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I think it's safe to say that shiney things made for little minds tend to contain malware of sort or another, be it OMFG online poker, screensavers, ringtones, toolbars, or britney_spear_titties.mpg.exe. Not exactly news, but thanks telling us anyways, or whatever.
- chickentonight, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0How would you know? Its seemingly random.
- threemagic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1No, I agree with the fair and clean statement. It's a crowded market so at best could only build a huge base of users only to turn and take all the money one day. If they cheated you out of your money, you'd know, and you'd stop playing there.
- neko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is a common way to grab passwords. Bored manager, wants to gamble online, uses same password as his work account because they're too dumb to remember two passwords. Site can then figure out what IP to connect to and use the registered email address to figure out the username. All you need is to do a little phishing for dumb managers...
- pokeronline, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0who would think a gambling application would be shady... hmm.
- CoolWind, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1It would be a miracle if the online poker rooms didn't cheat you. It's just too easy for them to pass up the chance. You'd never know.
One very easy way is for them to have a shill player and he just happens to get lucky on the river every once in a while when the pot is huge. Then he cashes out and sits down with a new name. - steelshanks, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Immoral gambling software? No way.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4open source can cantain spyware and viruses, too. You should say "open source software, if you've checked out the code yourself."
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3this should be a heads up for all idiots who waste their time and money playing online poker.
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