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My ISP gave NBC my packet history, and they're abusing it.

adam.rezich.com — My parents got a notice from our ISP today, telling us to stop pirating content from NBC. I had downloaded less than 1% of "Shaun of the Dead" (less than an hour of leeching from 0 leechers/2 seeders) before stopping the torrent and deleting the file. I haven't pirated anything since then. Now, I can't use BitTorrent anymore, even for legal stuff.

Bury
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  • nikomo, on 12/13/2007, -12/+216No offense, but your ISP can suck my balls hard.
    • takua108, on 12/13/2007, -11/+34None taken; I agree wholeheartedly.
      • fkr3, on 12/13/2007, -7/+24Failing to successfully pirate a movie is not the same as not pirating. Intent and attempts matter in the real world.
        • Tomchei, on 12/13/2007, -11/+4F*cking 'Minority Report'
        • shillbert, on 12/14/2007, -2/+18"Attempted murder? Do they give a Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry?"
        • cjhowe, on 12/14/2007, -4/+2Actually not quite Mr. Alberto Gonzales. That would-be law is sitting in the Senate Judiciary Committee as part of the Crime Control and Prevention Act of 2007 Title VIII Section 8004 to be precise. Enjoy your attempting while you still can.
          • actorboy, on 12/14/2007, -0/+2Interestingly, the Jammie Thomas case found that the act of merely making files available for download was a breach of copyright and considered sharing. Attempting to distribute equals a breach of copyright, attempting to download equals a breach of copyright.
          • cjhowe, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1@actorboy
            and Jammie Thomas's lawyer is appealing based on that jury instruction as it has no basis in statute http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/node/5566
      • thebrawl, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1In that case, please allow me to offer a nut for them lick on as well.
    • macbwizard, on 12/13/2007, -2/+21Question: Which ISP do you have?... the article's down.
    • sockpuppets, on 12/13/2007, -7/+60This is incorrect, your ISP didn't give them anything- your ISP is on your side, protecting your information and merely informing you of the notice received of your activity. Your "packet history" was discerned from your torrenting activities.

      If you don't want to get in trouble with your parents then stop using bit torrent.
      • sockpuppets, on 12/13/2007, -1/+45You knuckleheads digging me down need to stop taking the OP's word for it and read the notice he received. He's completely wrong in his assumptions.

        From: "PrarieWave Systems Administration"
        To:
        Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 1:42PM
        Subject: DMCA Violation Notification ID# **-********

        Bay NBC UNIVERSAL
        Subject: Attention Required!! DMCA Violation Notification- Notice ID: **-********
        Name: **** ******
        Address: **** **** **** **
        ***** **** SD 577**-****

        My name is *** ***** and I am with PrarieWave Communications. We are sending you this e-mail to notify you
        that we (PrarieWave) have been contacted by NBC UNIVERSAL. This contact is for violations of their DMCA
        (Digital Millennium Copyright Act).

        The below file name and time was sent to us to notify us of the violation.

        On: 29 Nov 2007
        Infringed Work: Shaun Of The Dead
        Infringing Filename: Shaun.Of.The.Dead.DVDRip.avi

        Was shared or downloaded from your location or IP. NBC UNIVERSAL pictures asks that you stop this action
        immediately and that any further instances should result in the cancellation of your services.

        PrarieWave does not want to remove your service, and asks that you stop this from our network; distribution or
        copying is completely prohibited.

        Please contact our support center at 877-***-**** if you have any further questions.

        Thanks ***
        Sysadmin

        For your information here is a link to our AUP:
        http://www.prairiewave.com/forms/aup.htm
        • bacon_skoda, on 12/13/2007, -3/+6been there done that. just don't upload.
          that's what my ISP service rep told me.
          and yes, they are on your side. they just get these letters
          and have to forward them.
      • issachar, on 12/13/2007, -10/+4.
        • Gman1223, on 12/13/2007, -2/+22Don't digg this poor guy down! can't you see hes blind? Hes writing in Braille. .... .... :. .. .. .. .; ''.....
          • stevedclarke, on 12/14/2007, -0/+3Johnny had a blind date. Her name was :.. .: .
      • max420, on 12/14/2007, -1/+7You are right. All the people here bashing the ISP y ou are stupid, read the friggin notice. The ISP is just letting the customer know they received a complaint from NBC. The guy was probably using a public tracker. I download movies from private trackers, and i've yet to receive one of these notices. I use to get them all the time when I was downloading stuff from public trackers.
      • takua108, on 12/14/2007, -1/+1Hey, they didn't tell me how they came across my information; I just assumed it was the ISP. They should have told me they played no part in it if they wished to seem innocent. NBC just told me through my ISP that they got wind of me downloading the file. I, from an objective standpoint, assumed the ISP had something to do with it. I apologize to my ISP if they're really uninvolved entirely.
    • sockpuppets, on 12/13/2007, -18/+9I demand $1 via paypal for every digger that cared enough to read this 12 year old's rant. Please go ask your father for his credit card.
      • calbff, on 12/14/2007, -4/+2I read it, and you can sniff my nuts.
    • latrosicarius, on 12/13/2007, -0/+39It sounds like NBC saw someone DLing a movie, did a look up on the IP address and saw that it came from your ISP (PrarieWave). They contacted PrarieWave and told them to tell you to stop. Your ISP then relayed the cease and desist message to you. It does not appear that they "gave" anything to NBC.

      You could get in serious trouble for unjust Libel/Slander against your ISP.

      And by the way, you said there was only a few people seeding/leeching this torrent? Sounds like a great way to be singled out easily.
    • blazes816, on 12/13/2007, -1/+7They host torrents. When you connect, WHAM! I got busted from downloading the Bourne Identity. It's really not a big deal, they just ask you to remove it.
      • 80hd, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1Meet the parents here.
        About a year and a half ago I got a nastygram by E-mail from Cocmcast about it and that ended the story....
    • Jalh, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1I'm pretty sure you won't be the only person.
    • rentmitchum, on 12/14/2007, -1/+0I've never seen anything less offensive.
  • Paradoxt, on 12/13/2007, -7/+103They already screwed over the writers. I guess they ran out of options and turned to you.
  • dynacrylic, on 12/13/2007, -4/+7"So, in closing, I urge all of you to heighten your knowledge of Internet security and do your best to keep your online actions a secret."

    Reminds me of the "Definition Changing for People's Privacy" writeup (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071111/D8SRJ1DO0 ...
  • dynacrylic, on 12/13/2007, -2/+157Somehow I get the idea that the MPAA and RIAA are literally behind that post. Meaning some MPAA/RIAA douche bag hired another douche consultant to write a "fake post" of what happened in an attempt to frighten and deter people from using torrents and "pirating" movies, shows and songs.
    • Cryoniq, on 12/13/2007, -1/+10So do I. That was my first thought reading through it all as well.
    • mCanada, on 12/13/2007, -1/+17does "5356 Smartness" = posts or credibility on that board? If so does that mean he's been there a while. That might be an indicator. Or is that some sort of gamertag?
      • dynacrylic, on 12/13/2007, -2/+7I looked at the "smartness" too and wondered about the history of that user. But if I remember correctly, certain computer hardware manufacturers would pay people to establish credibility and reputation on forums and/or user groups only to then start "promoting" their products.
        • bot001220, on 12/14/2007, -1/+1Nvidia's notorious for that kind of *****, BTW.
      • RoboDonut, on 12/13/2007, -1/+10You start with 5000 smartness. You gain smartness for posting, you lose smartness for AOL speak and poor grammar/spelling.
        If you drop below a certain threshold, you can't start threads.
      • DEADB33F, on 12/13/2007, -3/+5You get smartness for not making spelling mistakes or txt speak, if your smartness gets to low your account gets banned.
        • NoStoppingUs, on 12/14/2007, -8/+4too

          (i just realized i'll get dugg down for being a spelling douche, but his post was about spelling mistakes, hence, i corrected him. get it? ha. ha. :(
          • dynacrylic, on 12/14/2007, -6/+3No. You probably got buried for just a lame post.
    • noots, on 12/13/2007, -2/+3well im not sure which torrent he was using, but i've just looked at one with over 130 seeds and 100+ peers.
    • redcard, on 12/13/2007, -5/+2Actually, for what it's worth, I did get a warning about P2P from my ISP when I started to download a torrent of Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon.

      I'm not going to buy the "I was barely at 1% argument" .. but I had an email from my ISP within the hour, and two more from their "IP Division" within a day.

      • max420, on 12/14/2007, -5/+4What are you a retard? Ubuntu is a free OS, released under GNU. You can't get in truble for downloading it for free.
        • sickanimations, on 12/14/2007, -3/+2idiot
        • stevedclarke, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1Welcome to the wonderful world MPAA/RIAA. Torrents can only possibly be used for pirating their content... /sarcasm
    • max420, on 12/14/2007, -2/+3Actually, this warning is legit. The poster just misinterpreted it... probably cause his dad is mad at him, and he is young, and scared he will get fined lots of money. Judging from the ISP name, it sounds like he is in Canada actually, I may be wrong. But yeah, there is nothing NBC can do to him. I've received several of these notices, so I then switched to private trackers and no more.
    • takua108, on 12/14/2007, -2/+2I know it means nothing over the internets these days, but everything here really did happen. Besides, if I was an RIAA/MPAA "hired thug," would I be pissed off about my security being compromised? Hell no. The whole pirating thing is just what they found in my packets. I'm pissed that they were looking into my packets to begin with.
      • HHP2K, on 12/14/2007, -0/+3If you were an MPAA/RIAA hired thug, you'd write whatever blog/forum post they told you to write.

        And if this really is you, that's great. I just wanted to tell you that this phrase:

        "I am aware that this does not justify my actions in any way, and I am, from this point, ceasing any activity that could even potentially be illegal on the Internet."

        Makes you a total pussy. To the plank with ye!
    • theswany, on 12/14/2007, -1/+1/Start sarcasm
      This is exactly what I would do if I was a part of a multi-billion dollar corporation!!! I would pay some guy "a only God knows amount of money" to make a topic for all the people who read Digg!!1!1!!1! It's not like a single person here can even remember 10 topics that they read last week but they sure will remember this one!!!1!!!!1!1!11
      /End sarcasm
      • kublerross, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1ummm viral marketing and pr is much more prevalent than you realise obviously
        and thats exactly how it works

    • jetsetter883, on 12/14/2007, -2/+1thats gotta be the most ridiculous thing anyone has ever said on Digg. i take it you're a hardcore conspiracy theorist.
  • verge, on 12/13/2007, -25/+9just sent to eff.org. thank you for this submit. i'll be disappointed if this doesn't get more attention. one person's opinion.
    • sockpuppets, on 12/13/2007, -1/+17Next time RTFA, the ISP didn't do anything but warn this kid about his own activities.
  • FaithclubDotNet, on 12/13/2007, -5/+30Look at it this way, you weren't sued for a bajillion dollars like most people are.
    • inverselogic, on 12/14/2007, -1/+2How do they even get the money out of people? Okay , you stole last nights episode of friends so give us all your money, house , dog , step sister, and penis...
  • milktea, on 12/13/2007, -4/+37Grounded.
  • mCanada, on 12/13/2007, -7/+1It's intermittent down then up
  • cambob76, on 12/13/2007, -7/+35Looks like fiction to me. But what do I care, here in Canada?
    • atomofconsumpti, on 12/13/2007, -14/+1i'm in canada too, videotron. but i've read that canadian ISP's are even worse!!!!!!!!!!!!!oneoneoneoneone (no joke though)
    • Amplix, on 12/13/2007, -3/+2so it's true what they say about Canadians??
    • Zuljin, on 12/14/2007, -0/+4I like your style.
    • artfuldodga, on 12/14/2007, -0/+5You won't be saying that when they pass Canada's new DMCA in January. I hope you have mailed your local MP.
      • KraftDinner101, on 12/14/2007, -1/+1That's been delayed. Most likely won't go through now.
        • frsrblch, on 12/14/2007, -0/+2"Most likely won't" is still far too likely imo.
    • bot001220, on 12/14/2007, -0/+2Didn't the CRIA have Demonoid shut down?
  • iXneonXi, on 12/13/2007, -16/+7Use Peerguardian next time. As for now, it looks like you'll have to go with proxies and whatnot.
    • Ryokurin, on 12/13/2007, -1/+8You are aware that they can still see you are connected, just that they can't actually get information from you. The exact same thing would have happened anyways.
    • thatonekid393, on 12/13/2007, -2/+5What exactly is Peerguardian, is it safe, and where can I get it?

      -Also, is it specifically designed to protect one program, e.g. Bitlord....or can it cover all P2P programs?
      Thanks

      -Oh and to the OP, sucks about your ISP.....I hate pirating laws.
      • thinman1189, on 12/13/2007, -2/+3http://phoenixlabs.org/pg2/

        Is where you can get it. It blacklists certain IPs from connecting to you, they update the lists pretty regularly but there's no guarantees. It doesn't work in connection with other programs it just works, even blocking websites (known as the html feature - which can be turned off if you want to surf while torrenting). I've never heard of it having any security issues. The extent of my torrenting is seeding Ubuntu to help out but I like to blacklist these ***** anyway, they probably troll legal downloads just to track IPs when their owners' guards are down.
    • bjornski, on 12/13/2007, -4/+1Learn it, live it, love it.

      Peer Guardian is your friend.
      • bot001220, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1It was useful at first (i.e 2-3 years ago), but now the companies the RIAA/MPAA/CRIA/whatever contract to "detect" their downloads, easily go around it.

        People have been busted using peerguardian. Case in point: Cox communications shut down my neighbor's internet access for downloading episodes of "Battlestar Galactica", even though he was using peerguardian at the time.
    • schoate09, on 12/13/2007, -0/+8Peerguardian is only a mental safeguard, easily catchable.
    • foxhoundadmin, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1pg2 is a bloated pos, anyway. it never updates properly, and have you EVER tried purging your history after a week!? O. M. G!!!

      imho, pg2 just isn't worth it. maybe if it were a bit leaner and less resource hungry while actively using it...
  • jsd8cc, on 12/13/2007, -9/+12Which ISP? I need to know if I need to switch.
    • latrosicarius, on 12/13/2007, -2/+7PrarieWave... it's in the article.
  • CaptainAmerica1, on 12/13/2007, -25/+3Moral of the story -- don't even think about pirating stuff.
    • BossKeyy, on 12/13/2007, -1/+1He was only trying to be witty : [
    • evodude, on 12/13/2007, -2/+3Shouldn't there be an RIAA tag with the little circly R after that "moral"?
    • starmanjones, on 12/14/2007, -0/+2there is a dirty little secret that all internet security people know. this is it.
      packet history means squat. it is not possible without a great deal of setup... as in going and collecting data from directly out behind your house... to say in absolute terms you did anything. if you have an open wireless router then that gets complicated because anyone within a several mile radius using a cantenna could be jacking your router... spoofing IPs and MAC addresses... using a proxy... unless you let them have your computer or admit you did it. they got squat. that doesn't mean they can get a warrant on evidence that wouldn't hold up in any other venue... buy bullying and and threatening... these are civil not criminal.

      these folks lost me some years ago when RIAA sent me threatening emails for months telling me that if i didn't go to the home of the person using "this" IP and delete the download they would file a law suit against me as the head admin.

      i replied once... telling them that the police couldn't do that and couldn't do that even more. i finally just bounced everything back to them. all they really have is the bully factor.
  • Bara, on 12/13/2007, -6/+12My friend's friend got a notice from Comcast this past weekend for downloading Aragon. Not sure what they'll be doing for now but we'll see.
    • CTRaider, on 12/13/2007, -1/+22He should get a notice for downloading Aragon. That movie sucks. : P
    • ZekeTsurai, on 12/14/2007, -1/+1Comcast sucks balls. Period.
  • DemonSpawn77, on 12/13/2007, -4/+22NBC can go suck a lemon.
  • XThunderStormX, on 12/13/2007, -38/+1Torrents?

    Someone is still in the Stone Age of file sharing...
  • stephenpjc, on 12/13/2007, -4/+18Get Peer Guardian 2, or if you have Azureus, get safe peer
  • soot, on 12/13/2007, -3/+28http://phoenixlabs.org/pg2/
    • foxhoundadmin, on 12/14/2007, -2/+1http://phoenixlabs.org/pg2/ hardly ever updates properly and bogs down your system while actively using it (ever try deleting history after a week or even just a couple days)?
  • DarkDragon, on 12/13/2007, -3/+27I would just set up a program which sends tons of UDP packets which just say "***** NBC" to random IPs in NBC's IP Block.
    • bingobongony, on 12/14/2007, -0/+6Boy THAT'LL show 'em. IF you do that, they will let you steal their content!
    • 80hd, on 12/14/2007, -0/+2My school has access to 500Mbits symmetric (40Gbit if you count the i-light links). I'm sure it would get noticed by a few people @ NBC if a some computer in one of the wiring closets had some "broken software" that was broadcasting to a few "random" addresses....
  • breadnbutter, on 12/13/2007, -9/+4Same thing happened to me for downloading NBC content. They said if it happened again my internet would be suspended.
    • surfing, on 12/14/2007, -1/+7You're already on double secret probation.
    • s0nicfreak, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1You'd better cut it out or you'll have to find a different company to give your money to!
  • AppleGeorge, on 12/13/2007, -4/+15If you didn't download off public sites you could have gotten that movie in 4 minutes.
    • mykool, on 12/13/2007, -6/+7I don't know where you live, but no one in the US has a connection that fast.
      • AppleGeorge, on 12/13/2007, -3/+8I live in Texas. I just use private sites like torrentleech with a lot of seeders and get up to 2MB/sec.
        • asforme, on 12/14/2007, -2/+1Who would want to watch a 60 Megabyte rip of a movie?
        • 80hd, on 12/14/2007, -0/+2You've obviously never seen how awesome DC++ in a dorm is.....
          Imagine saturating the link from a 10/100 card with no obligation to upload.
          A 700meg ISO in 5 minutes is not that crazy
  • chrisdancy, on 12/13/2007, -39/+9Maybe it is because i am 40 and have a good income, but I don't understand why your upset. You got caught stealing.
    • humanerror, on 04/03/2008, -5/+24get off the computer old man
      • chrisdancy, on 12/13/2007, -7/+1old man. Yikes, I guess in Japan and Digg 40 must be old.
        • howilearned, on 12/13/2007, -3/+3He's just pissed that you were right. No doubt he got a spanking and was sent to bed early because he did illegal stuff on the internet.

          Someone should change his diaper.
    • evaburrito, on 12/13/2007, -2/+5dude, its the privacy issue, not the theft. the principal, my friend.
      • chrisdancy, on 12/13/2007, -1/+1I understand the privacy issue. I don't understand crime. His ISP blows. His parents should ground him. Either way he was stealing.
    • Mitchum, on 12/13/2007, -1/+13You're 40 and you still don't understand your/you're?
      At least your heart is in the right place and you support big business's "right" to invade privacy... oh, wait.
    • cyberwiz01, on 12/13/2007, -2/+5*Copyright Infringement
    • chrisdancy, on 12/13/2007, -3/+1At this rate I will be on the bottom of the list!!! I am such a bottom too.
    • evodude, on 12/13/2007, -3/+2You're right, it must be because you're 40. And shouldn't you be off waiting to die or something?
  • GeForce8800GTX, on 12/13/2007, -5/+8Keep downloading. Find a new ISP, too. Problem solved.
  • kingwalterii, on 12/13/2007, -3/+55This is dumb. The ISP did nothing, he downloaded/uploaded from/to an NBC agent, NBC caught him, sent a letter to his ISP, and his ISP forwarded. Standard for dmca notices.
    • 80hd, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1When I move next year I'm thinking I'm just going to make up a name and ssn for when I sign up for Comcast. I mean what do they care as long as they get paid every month? if/when the police come to the door looking for Jon Johansen I'll tell them he's in court for ripping movies
  • Ericn84, on 12/13/2007, -2/+148Your ISP didn't give NBC your packet history. NBC hired a law office to monitor bit torrent networks for downloaders. One of those two seeders were the company that NBC hired. Once they ID you, they send a notice to the ISP and the ISP needs to send you a letter that they got a notice and request that you stop downloading copy righted material.

    This is the way the process works. I worked in an abuse department for a 200,000+ customer base and we had to send out notices because the company NBC hires sends us a notice and we gotta forward that to you. At no point in time does the ISP give your information to NBC, the letters that these companys send to the ISP doesn't even request your information. Only that the ISP takes action to stop the downloading.

    Don't blame your ISP, blame the copyright laws that require them to notify you that they got a notice.
    • whereisian, on 12/13/2007, -2/+17Thanks. I came here to say about that.
    • bkool, on 12/13/2007, -1/+10Thank you! I'm glad someone else saw that too. I replied but I guess you got here first.
    • chrispix, on 12/13/2007, -3/+8I don't get it. If they hire a company to share out the video for all to see, then why not download it? Seems like a legit reason to download the video..

      If Universal came out w/ a movie, and stood infront of a movie theatre and said go ahead, see the movie we are screening it thru this side door. Can they have you arrested for not paying to see their movie?
      • desqjockey, on 12/13/2007, -2/+9Interesting question- more accurate if they were just holding it open, and if you asked they would tell you what movie was in there and that it was free.
        You could argue entrapment, but you would need to prove you would not normally do that and the deal was too good to pass up. Entrapment is a weak argument online because you actively searched for the download, it wasnt calling out to you.
        Online you could argue they waived copyright protections by making the copies and setting up the channels to get it free, which is probably stronger.
        In both cases Universal doesnt get to run sting operations, only the police do. I cant see the logic in Universal being awarded civil judgments from you downloading the work from this network: they say they are trying to deter piracy, but by giving away content in order to sue the recipient for taking it, and asking for damages several orders of magnitude higher than what its commercially available for... doesnt smell right.
      • DoorFrame, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1The kid didn't think it he was downloading it with permission. He thought he was breaking the law. It would be different if it actually somehow seemed authorized.
    • dellwisconsin, on 12/13/2007, -1/+11Ericn84 understands the internet. Too bad the poster doesn't.
    • mykool, on 12/13/2007, -1/+8While they want you not to d/l, it's the uploading that gets you in trouble.
      • Khabi, on 12/14/2007, -1/+1Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!
        Don't matter if you only download 1% of that movie, if you make it available on the internet they can come after you for it.
    • Khabi, on 12/14/2007, -1/+6Thank you. The whole 'packet history' idea is dumb. The storage to be able to do that alone would be insane, assuming they're trying to log the entire packet. A 1 gig file downloaded would result in a 1gig packet history PLUS any overhead from the packets (header info, etc). Thats only for the downloaded part. Assuming you go by the normal bittorennt 'sharing practices' you may upload another 2-3 Gigs so add that PLUS packet headers to the amount of storage you need.

      And on top of that all... They would have to sift thru millions of packets to figure out you downloaded a movie. Yes you could script that out to make it easier, but it would still take awhile.
    • cnot3, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1By law office you must mean a broom closet with two sell-out computer nerds and a couple of computers.
    • rockosocko, on 12/14/2007, -0/+0Finally other people on the Internet that know how it works!
  • Skooma714, on 12/13/2007, -8/+1I'd go post in the Facepunch thread but I got banned for a day for making a Post Your thread. :downs:
    • Jereso, on 12/13/2007, -3/+1Did you post in General Discussion or Fast Threads?

      Post your belongs in fast threads.
      February 05'er here.
    • Skooma714, on 12/14/2007, -1/+1I know where it goes, It was iffy and I chose general.

      Nov 05
  • Rolcol, on 12/13/2007, -4/+17eh better a warning than a lawsuit.
  • GeForce8800GTX, on 12/13/2007, -10/+11Oh, by the way, link to the torrent? Let's all download it at once, see if they can stop the Hydra now!
    • evodude, on 12/13/2007, -1/+10You first.
    • JudgeMonkey, on 12/14/2007, -3/+1Umm.. instead I'll just buy the dvd for like 5 bucks. At least I would if I didn't already buy it years ago, packaged with dawn of the dead for 10 bucks collectively.
    • unearth, on 12/14/2007, -0/+2Going to be difficult with zero seeders.
  • Hologram0110, on 12/13/2007, -5/+3I got an email 2 years ago from Universal Studios for downloading... But I'm in Canada so it was just an empty threat... They actually sent it to my university, who forwarded it to me. I'm pretty sure they just have an automated program which collects IPs by pretending to download the file... and since the University's IP would be registered they had an email address to send the complaint. Now I use safepeer...
    • 80hd, on 12/14/2007, -0/+2dude your supposed to do all your illegal stuff on open Wifi. Come on
  • crimoid, on 12/13/2007, -3/+12What makes him think that his ISP gave away "packet information"? NBC saw traffic, sent the ISP a DMCA notice, said ISP sends user a cease and desist. The user is totally abstracted from NBC. If anything this guy should be happy that he only got a nastygram from the ISP not a fat pay-up or else letter from NBC
  • deadbaby, on 12/13/2007, -1/+73The author of this post has no clue what he's talking about. Here's what actually happened:
    1) You started a BitTorrent download. Your IP address is visible to anyone including the copyright holders who monitor BitTorrent.
    2) NBC, or more likely a company who represents NBC's interests, logged your IP address.
    3) Your IP address is owned by your ISP so NBC traced the activity back to that point. They sent your ISP an abuse notification that included your specific IP address which your ISP logs. (who had it, when) Your ISP, under obligation of the DMCA law, is then responsible for your actions. To be safe legally they must pass the liability along to the account holder. If you are sued over this your ISP can say "well, we warned him. Not our problem"
    This whole forum post strikes me as typical childish blame deflection. Your ISP is doing what is legally mandated of them by the DMCA. The copyright holder obtained their information from a public source and used public information to track it back to your ISP. At this point, NBC still has no clue who you are. Your ISP is actually doing you a favor here -- they could have said "We don't care. Here's his name, address and phone number. Sue him if you don't like it" You're just deflecting the blame by trying to make this into a personal privacy violation issue which it is not. You got caught doing something illegal. That is all. Be thankful your Dad isn't getting sued for your mistake.
    • streetstealth, on 12/14/2007, -0/+2Furthermore, why is the author under the impression that all his torrent traffic will be monitored (by the agency hired by NBC, which he seems to think is NBC) from now on? That doesn't make sense at all.
    • starmanjones, on 12/14/2007, -0/+2the ISP is probably just CYA.
      1. the guy at the ISP probably downloads movies too and has no interest in hassling you. he is going through the motions.

      2. having that log doesn't mean that you did anything. it means they have a log that might be you but it also might be your neighbor using your router or someone somewhere spoofing.

      3. just because you are passing packets on commonly used ports that bit torrent uses doesn't mean you are using it to pirate anything.

      here is what i think. i would love it if all these brick and mortar companies would find a decent model so people could pay them. it needs to reflect reasonable costs. i have used allofmp3 and i think thats the price point. if i wanted something it was more hassle to get my friend to rip me a copy. if i lost music... i just downloaded again. that eliminates the incentive to "pirate" music because it is more of a pain in the ass.

      the whole "pirate" semantic is inside humor to people who are savvy. the brick and mortar people it sounds like an evil person... a bragging criminal. the law makers hear "pirate" and they know its a vote freebie vote that won't haunt them. the stuff of good campaign propaganda. they have no idea what it means or anything about the technology or culture.

      there is certainly evidence that says pirating music increases profits. none of this crap is what this is about. this is political. its about who controls information. if you don't believe that then ask why there is legislation that turns this civil issue over to the attorney generals office with penaties greater them many or most violent crimes. it takes a lot of politics to make that happen. i could go on but we all know the issue. its bad. they want to lump "pirate" in the same pile as terrorist.

      there isn't a computer connected to the internet that doesn't have copyrighted material on it somewhere. its shipped that way- probably... not knowingly. remember sony and the root kit drm? ya.

      that makes every one technically a pirate subject to arrest. if the office of terror management decides they want you they can say with certainty that you have copyright infringing stuff on your computer. sort of the modern equivalent of throwing down the knife or gun when police accidentally kill someone that was unarmed.

      "we have information there is a pirate at..." we also know that everyone one of us can be detained for no other reason than they want to. we have no protections anymore.

      filter through the phone companies. government hackers.... breaking in google and using google to search your email.

      so heres where i going.

      i think "pirate" should be re-branded as "non-violent civil disobedience."

      there has always been a tenet in american law that says that if a law is making criminals out a significant percentage of the population then the law needs to be fixed. this needs to be fixed.

      when i think of what will happen if RIAA and the rest win i see the old guard... the brick and mortar dinosaurs as taking control of a technology that we use. they do it with the help of politics. this is about control.

      the real fact in all this is if this technology is not used actively by people then it will fall with no struggle into the hands last century thinking. that leads me to wonder if there might be an obligation for people to use these technologies and force the issues.

      i wonder if this isn't the second installment of civil rights that blacks fought for. this is civil rights for everyone. i think the great teachers of non-violent civil disobedience the likes of martin luther king and mahatma gandhi would agree this is about civil rights and i think they would approve.

    • theeEqualizer, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1BINGO! since this is also my line of work, I confer with deadbaby. I see emails to the legal dept. all the time. I'VE even gotten a letter like that, and I WORK for my ISP. The very idea that NBC would ask for packet history (as if anyone actually COLLECTED said history) is really flawed. Do you realize how many packets are moved a day, an HOUR, a MINUTE even? C'mon. Think about it. That's not a needle in a haystack, that's a needle in an ocean of hay. They got your IP and then they notified your ISP. NBC doesn't know your name. There's probably a group of really tired people watching bit torrent traffic and mailing ISPs.
  • SacraBos, on 12/13/2007, -15/+21) Download a copy of every LInux distribution, project, package, etc you can find that has a torrent.
    2) Get sued by NBC
    3) File SLAPP counter-suit
    4) Profit!
    • Beatmiser, on 12/13/2007, -1/+10Why would NBC care about you downloading Linux distros? Do they have secret imbedded episodes of 30 Rock that I'm not aware of?
      • brainboy77, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1i could actually see jack plotting that while liz walks in on it. god, i miss 30 rock. damn wga strike...
    • ryan83189, on 12/14/2007, -0/+0or just call the iso of a ripped dvd movie- linux dvd
      • Mononuclear, on 12/14/2007, -1/+1yeah because the filename will sure fool them!!! /sarcasm
  • liquisoft, on 12/13/2007, -16/+8Stop pirating stuff.
  • fsuarez2005, on 12/13/2007, -7/+1Encrypt Bittorrent traffic. Check local laws.

    http://torrentfreak.com/how-to-encrypt-bittorrent- ...
    • cybox, on 12/13/2007, -1/+8... which will do absolutely nothing to prevent this. It's not his ISP who logged him doing this, it was either NBC or a company hired by NBC to log IPs of those downloading a torrent. What would help him would be running some software such as PeerGuardian to prevent connections to those watchdogs.
  • bkool, on 12/13/2007, -2/+11FTA: "Anyways, as for our ISPs giving our packet data to large corporations without explicitly explaining the possible ramifications of this to their mostly technology-illiterate customers: frightening"

    Ok, to the author, the ISP didn't give away your packet data to NBC! NBC probably hired some company to connect to a bunch of bittorrent seeds of their material and see what other IPs were downloading the same content. NBC then sent threatening letters to the ISP associated with the IPs they collected, which then caused the ISP to contact you. The ISP didn't give anything to NBC.
    • 80hd, on 12/14/2007, -0/+2wait wait wait.
      Your saying that when I upload data to any random stranger that requests it, that it is publicly available?!
  • acidreign32, on 12/13/2007, -5/+0is it really a violation of the DMCA if your MD5 checksum doesn't match the registered checksum that the 3rd party that is enforcing the DMCA has? if it doesn't match, it clearly shows that its not the copyrighted material that they are going after. just because a file name says its something or a type of file certainly doesn't mean that it is that file.....if you took this to court you would most likely win.
  • atomofconsumpti, on 12/13/2007, -6/+6what tracker was his "shaun of the dead" torrent on? we should all download it just to ***** with whatever lobbying group sent that letter.
  • Sithseth, on 12/13/2007, -4/+2I'm more then sure that no legal action could be taken if you only downloaded a small portion of a file, and also the bits that were downloaded make no coherent sense unless you downloaded all of it, so you didn't download anything that was legally owned by anyone.

    If anyone tried to pull this on me, I would proclaim shenanigans, and take them to court for harassment.

    And finally, when downloading a torrent (a legal torrent of course), do a little research on the site which you downloaded the torrent from, and stay away from torrents that have "9000!" seeders as either those aren't real, or too popular (which... could get you viruses or something...).
    • Khabi, on 12/14/2007, -1/+1its not the downloading they go after. Its the people who make the file available to others. IE, if you set your torrent client to not upload or block the uploads at your router then you're 'fairly' safe. Is it legal? still no. But you're safer.
      • jennamalia, on 12/14/2007, -1/+2Sithseth:
        Are you a lawyer?
        How can you be "more then sure" that ignoring this issue will make it go away?
        I'm unfamiliar with "shenanigans" as a legal term.
    • ZekeTsurai, on 12/14/2007, -1/+2*looks at seeder size* IT'S OVER 9000!! *gets different torrent* Problem Solved.
  • atomofconsumpti, on 12/13/2007, -4/+2what the hell does NBC have to do with "shaun of the dead?"
    • atomofconsumpti, on 12/13/2007, -1/+3actually, i figured it out. distributed by Universal Studios in the U.S. and, "Universal Studios a subsidiary of NBC Universal, is one of the major American film studios."
  • TheBigBad, on 12/13/2007, -2/+13--I had downloaded less than 1% of "Shaun of the Dead" (less than an hour of leeching from 0 leechers/2 seeders) before stopping the torrent and deleting the file. I haven't pirated anything since then--
    Ummm, yeh, suuuure.
  • patrickxbateman, on 12/13/2007, -2/+5I worked for an ISP, and I've had to turn customer's down for this. As people stated before, it is not the ISP's fault. They get informed by the studio's legal team is that it has happened, and are asked to take action. Buried for inaccuracy. Also, it's ridiculous to think that an ISP would run constant packet captures on all of it's customers at all times.
  • kretik, on 12/13/2007, -7/+12Is this for real? I mean seriously, you got caught trying to pirate copyrighted material (but of course it was just 1% and you didn't inhale), and now you're going to go on a crusade against your ISP? You're going to make an example of them because they have committed this terrible injustice against you? Do you have any idea how many DMCA takedowns the average ISP gets in a week? Because of dumbass teenagers like you? Holy crap. I'd block ALL OF YOU off Torrent and eMule in a second.

    And BTW, trust me, your ISP probably didn't give anyone any "packet data", Universal has BayTSP for that. Perhaps you should either be smarter about how you break the law, or stop doing it altogether.
    • jetsetter883, on 12/14/2007, -0/+2stupid people should be banned from BitTorrent (and stick to Limewire).. ruins it for everyone else.
  • shinythings, on 12/13/2007, -11/+2Streaming movies are way better: http://tinyurl.com/228kzr
  • atomofconsumpti, on 12/13/2007, -7/+1although not giving NBC packet data... his ISP would have had to provide NBC with his address! that's even scarier!
    • kretik, on 12/13/2007, -1/+3No, they didn't. Under the DMCA the ISP acts as a "safe harbour" middleman that is obliged to relay the violation notice to the customer, but not to disclose any personally identifiable information. That can happen, but it involves a lot more legal maneuvering, subpoenas and lawsuits.
      BayTSP (whom I suspect probably caught this dumbass kid in the act) sends out thousands of DMCA notices to ISPs per year, and none of them involve much more than a warning from the ISP. When they start to get lots of them for the same person, that's another thing.
    • dsenman, on 01/28/2008, -1/+1the letter came from his ISP... not NBC. The studio would have gotten a "we told him to stop" letter, at most.
  • TiE23, on 12/13/2007, -19/+2Hah! This is my forum, I'm a regular there and I read this thread last night, and now it's on the front page of Digg. I post about half way down the second page. Post number 66.
  • sj200, on 12/13/2007, -4/+2So what did we learn here. . . NEXT time use I2P.
  • Sithseth, on 12/13/2007, -10/+3People don't pirate to "steal," if anything, when people pirate, they counter act big business taking from the little guy (and unless you are big business, YOU ARE THE LITTLE GUY!).
    I don't see how ANYONE could feel it's morally irresponsible for downloading a TV show that they missed on TV, or downloading a Movie they haven't seen in a long time.
    So what if I didn't pay 10-30 bucks for a DVD, are you still not making millions of dollars in revenue you big conglomerate ass hats?
    - You don't need money, any more then I needing to pirate; big business does not have greater morals then pirates.
    • SSCrow, on 12/13/2007, -2/+4See but the problem is that these are publicly traded companies and they are legally bound to increase profits for their share holders.
      So lobbying these laws and taking these types of actions helps them make more money.
      Its the unfortunate problem with Capitalism.
    • Khabi, on 12/14/2007, -0/+6whatever you need to believe to help you sleep at night...
      "OMG big business hurts the little people!!!1111oneone"
      If you really believe that dribble, why don't you go steal gas from a gas station?
      • Sithseth, on 12/14/2007, -2/+1"If you really believe that dribble, why don't you go steal gas from a gas station?"
        Um, instead, I don't drive. I use public transportation.

        And, I don't buy commercialized crap either. Under what circumstances is it a necessity to buy a new car, get 100 dollar clothes and shoes, and a $2000 dollar speaker system? I don't steal those things, cause I don't need them. And plus, any moron would know that pirating does no harm to big business revenue. If anything, it helps them.

        And, I don't see how people can get so upset at the war in Iraq, and then ignore the problems at home that are pushing our government into these directions that cause them to do stupid/corrupt *****. How much are you going to let people walk over us before you get upset?

        But don't worry, I'm sure living ignorantly believing you will still have a job tomorrow, that government is keeping you safe from the terrorists, and your pretty clothes, shoes, and car will earn you a pretty wife some day.
  • SLockhart, on 12/13/2007, -11/+6Stop stealing other peoples intellectual property and you'll have nothing to worry about.
    • shillbert, on 12/14/2007, -4/+4I suppose borrowing a book from the library is stealing intellectual property? I mean, not only does your brain store all the words in the book, but you could photocopy every page. Would photocopying an entire library book for personal use be "stealing intellectual property"? Where do we draw the line? Am I allowed to lend books to people? Am I allowed to give people photocopies of entire books for free? Am I allowed to lend CDs to people? Am I allowed to give out copies of CDs for free? Am I allowed to borrow books? Photocopy them? Am I allowed to memorize every word in a book and then write them all down? I wonder where exactly you draw your jagged line.
      • JudgeMonkey, on 12/14/2007, -1/+4Actually, yes. Photocopying the book would be "stealing intellectual property". No, you can't give someone a photocopied version of the whole book, or any part of it, legally, for free. Memorizing it isn't duplicating it, but copying it down is. I don't know how copying parts for research fits in to it. They might just turn a blind eye to that?
        So, what was your point exactly? Reproducing the book at all is illegal, giving the original and not copying it is legal since the book is the license, so to speak. Copying a cd is illegal, giving the original away and retaining none of it yourself is legal.
      • bingobongony, on 12/14/2007, -3/+2If you took the book without the library's permission...yes. You ***** idiot.
      • gaysex, on 12/14/2007, -1/+1Wow, you're a *****.
  • zeezz, on 12/13/2007, -0/+3i feel like i just lost 10 IQ points trying to understand this fool explaining his situation.

    get your story straight... your ISP isn't doing anything it's not supposed to do.
  • bl4h, on 12/13/2007, -1/+6they dont have to "hand over "packet" information." I mean, if youre connecting to SEEDs AND PEERS YOU JUST MIGHT BE CONNECTING TO an NBC logger. Thats how they got your ip. Which is fair game my friend
  • RTAdams89, on 12/13/2007, -6/+3For a technical explanation of what his ISP did (or rather did not do) and every other way this kid is wrong, see my post at http://personal.ryantadams.com/2007/12/13/471/
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