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232 Comments
- trevorjez, on 10/19/2007, -3/+170if people cheat at video games when no cash is involved - should we really be surprised there's cheating in online poker?
- inactive, on 11/05/2007, -11/+98Hmm, lets see. I think I'll go gamble on some company's gaming website located outside of US jurisdiction, where there is absolutely no penalty for them cheating bigtime. Yeah. Sign me up.
At least in Vegas you have the Nevada Gaming Commission that makes sure all the games arent rigged.
Online, you have nothing. If I was running a big gaming website in Costa Rica you can bet your sweet ass I would cheat all of my customers and rob them blind, as long as they were dumb enough to keep coming back. - kamikaze87, on 10/26/2007, -8/+52Maaaatt Daaamon.
- sixsicsix, on 11/10/2007, -1/+38This is gonna hurt all online gambling sites....
- senatorkevin, on 10/18/2007, -2/+36More detailed information can be found at:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat ... - evg87, on 11/05/2007, -6/+40The servers are located in Canada.
And this is a big deal because this is the first case of cheating in online poker since its boom over 4 years ago. Nothing like this has ever happened before. - n3demonic, on 10/18/2007, -3/+36*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to AUTOSMOKE [7c 4h]
Dealt to OBV_DONK [Js 5h]
Dealt to POTR0AST [6h 4c]
Dealt to POTRIPPER [Ks Qd]
Dealt to POKERME420 [10d Qs]
Dealt to JINXY_MONKEY [Ah As]
Dealt to CLOVER777 [Kh Jd]
Dealt to SCARFACE_79 [7s 3h]
SCARFACE_79 - Folds
CLOVER777 - Calls $300
OBV_DONK - Folds
AUTOSMOKE - Folds
POTR0AST - Folds
POTRIPPER - Folds
POKERME420 - Raises $450 to $600
JINXY_MONKEY - Raises $1500 to $1800
CLOVER777 - Folds
He folded KQ preflop without knowing that there would be a raise by the person holding pocket Aces. That's enough damning evidence right there. - JSager, on 10/19/2007, -5/+37The reason (intelligently run) poker sites have no reason to cheat is that they make a lot more money over time by running an honest business. Those twenty five cent a minute per table rakes add up really fast if you have a good client base... and the moment you're caught cheating, your client base drops to zero.
- objectcode, on 10/18/2007, -7/+35online poker kind of takes away the point of poker
- krets, on 10/18/2007, -3/+30Well, no one has been caught doing it before.
- se7en11, on 10/18/2007, -1/+24I'll still go. I can see your cards...
- MrFunions, on 11/10/2007, -10/+32Anybody who knows anything about programming should know better than to play on online poker sites.
- goofyballer, on 11/10/2007, -11/+30Online poker is still fairly safe. PokerStars had a professional player and writer (Lee Jones) running their poker room for a long time and their customer support is very impressive; Full Tilt Poker is owned by professional poker players. The issue here isn't about "online poker is rigged", but rather about the fact that players were trusting their money to crooked executives. If you follow the link in the first comment, it's been shown since the Poker-King article was posted that people as high up as the CEO at Absolute were involved in the cheating (you may have to return to the forum index since the information has been consolidated into a new thread for brevity, but this was just revealed today).
If anything, I think this is proof that online poker needs to be legalized and regulated to protect consumers. Millions of people are going to play anyway, so it's in the interests of the people for the government to at least try to make it safe for them. - robdiggity, on 10/19/2007, -2/+19"If I was running a big gaming website in Costa Rica you can bet your sweet ass I would cheat all of my customers and rob them blind, as long as they were dumb enough to keep coming back."
This really says more about you than the people who keep coming back. - o0joshua0o, on 11/10/2007, -1/+17If you run an online poker business, credibility is your #1 asset. If you lose that, you lose everything.
- Dizik, on 10/18/2007, -0/+15I dunno, why don't you ask the guys behind EVE Online.
- drstock, on 10/18/2007, -0/+15Even more info at: http://www.absolutepokercheats.com/
- alittleroy101, on 10/18/2007, -2/+17Stay away from bad beets! They'll give you the *****.
- Winters, on 10/18/2007, -0/+13Haha! That really is a TERRIBLE name for a watchdog website.
- xmichael, on 10/19/2007, -0/+12"Also Absolute has since issued a statement that Scott Tom has not worked for them for a year, and they are conducting an “independent” audit into the situation. We will see if anything comes of this. "
This is not true, Scott Tom is the CEO - rossnyc, on 10/18/2007, -1/+12where? please direct me to these monthly stories of rampant online poker cheating.
- firechill, on 10/18/2007, -7/+18If you think poker is a game of luck, you are ignorant of the game. Do you think it's luck that you see so many familiar faces at the final tables of the World Series of Poker year after year? Here's a tip: Never compare poker to the lottery or any other common casino game for that matter.
- card51short, on 10/18/2007, -1/+11then you would get exposed and shut down eventually...takes a long time to build up trust and customers
- Wolfcaster, on 10/18/2007, -1/+10hmm, lets see. Online poker can't be located in the US cause it's illegal, and there is a huge penalty for cheating. Now Absolute is absolutely bankrupt, if they had followed the rules they would still be making massive profits, most poker sites are smart enough to realize that reputation is everything.
- JaredXM, on 10/18/2007, -1/+10I think he was saying he didn't play for real money as he suspected people of cheating.
- Dizik, on 10/18/2007, -1/+10What I think you really meant to say was: "Why does this still seem like gambling to you? I mean, why do you think the same five guys make it to the final table of the World Series of Poker EVERY SINGLE YEAR? What, are they the luckiest guys in Las Vegas? It's a skill game, Jo."
- spudhead, on 10/18/2007, -3/+12Poker is about giving your buddies grief about their last drinking binge, their last attempt at cooking, and the latest ball games. Poker isn't about staring at an LCD.
- Antialias, on 10/18/2007, -9/+17and people win the lottery too, that doesn't mean it makes sense for the other 99% to play.
- OpinioNate, on 10/19/2007, -0/+8You can tell where he's at. Scarface_79 acted first which means he's UTG (under the gun), therefore Potripper is on the button (Pokerme420 and Jinxy are small and big blind, respectively). KQ is definately worth a raise on the button in an unraised pot.
- vertinox, on 10/18/2007, -2/+10I dunno why people have dugg you down. Online gambling is kind of dubious mostly because of the lack of regulation like a real casino would face. Its not like you can see the code for the software either to make sure you aren't being cheated. Of course people win, but I'd rather take my chances at a real casino because at least they have to try to cheat you.
- nihilite, on 10/18/2007, -2/+10I gamble online. It's called tdameritrade.
- explnx, on 04/27/2009, -2/+10If the people who were given the access had been the least bit discrete they would never have been caught. I'm talking folding to a minimum raise after the river when you have a straight and thousands in the pot. Nobody would ever do that unless they either got a tell from you or they were cheating.
- RabidAngel, on 10/19/2007, -0/+8Can anyone confirm that Absolute Poker and UltimateBet are owned by the same group of people?
- explnx, on 04/27/2009, -1/+8It first happened nearly a decade ago, only it was possible for anyone to cheat who new how (they were using a sequential time-based random munber generator to deal), not just people with inside help.
- blorc, on 10/18/2007, -4/+11eDrama is the best. Always a great read.
- heyleroy, on 10/18/2007, -8/+15summary here as well:
http://www.natarem.com/ - inactive, on 11/10/2007, -1/+8Ive been playing on Ultimatebet, Bodog, fulltilt and pokerstars for years. In all those years Ive only come across one person who I felt was cheating. Online poker is not a scam, (although im sure scamers are out there) go to sharkscope.com and look up flushnasty48 under pokerstars. Proof its possible to make some money :)
- ngmcs8203, on 10/18/2007, -0/+6Try again my friend. Look up ZeeJustin, thev0id, etc.
- Halgy, on 10/18/2007, -0/+5At least now I have an excuse for loosing.
- inactive, on 10/18/2007, -2/+7If you're good at poker why wouldn't you play online and make money? If I can make $10-20 a week playing low stakes poker online and I get enjoyment out of it why am I going to pass that up? I think I'd be a fool if I didn't play...
In addition, a distinction has to be made between poker and other forms of gambling. Poker involves more skill than any other form of gambling out there. No one's denying there's luck involved, but there is a considerable element of skill there as well. Poker players rely on much more than just chance to make their winnings. You can't equate gambling by playing something like roulette, to playing poker. - xmichael, on 10/18/2007, -1/+6This guy is banned from nearly every "real" poker room in Costa Rica for trying to cheat, there is no doubt he would be cheating online!
- lotar732, on 10/18/2007, -0/+5Here is a link illustrating the tournament. If you know ANYTHING about hold'em, you know for a fact that there is definitely something fishy going on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FczbS7FiWSM - linksus, on 10/18/2007, -1/+6Humm i cant see why they need to cheat anyway.
If your a popular site you will make a fortune just from the small house rake on each table..
Thats normal practice on many sites . IE: pokerroom.com
Every one has betted £50 so the house takes a small lets say £0.50 from each player for the use of the site.. - Klak, on 11/10/2007, -1/+6finally someone who knows what theyre talking about
- scooter12, on 10/18/2007, -0/+5what the hell is loosing?
- Dunge, on 10/18/2007, -2/+7Where's the link between programming and poker?
- iashraf, on 10/18/2007, -18/+23Poker in real life is much more fun anyway. Poker sites suck!
- xmichael, on 10/19/2007, -1/+6Don't forget Absolute Poker owns Ultimate Bet!
- goofyballer, on 10/18/2007, -1/+6Poker is a beatable game. Unlike blackjack or whatever house game where you're playing against the house, poker rooms will take a portion of the pot (generally 5% up to $3 online, or 10% up to $4 or $5 in casinos) to make money. That's why "online poker is rigged" theories are generally baseless - the house makes money regardless of whether you win or lose, so it isn't in their best interests to rig the game. These executives thought it would be in their best interests to cheat players, but it looks like they got caught.
To win at poker, you just have to play well enough to beat your opponents at the table and overcome the slight disadvantage caused by the rake. It's not "gambling." - mpulcini, on 10/18/2007, -1/+6Kahnawake Reservation, Quebec, Canada.
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