What is Digg?113 Comments
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -11/+52Microsoft needs to stop allocating 90% of their efforts for finding better ways of locking users out of their own computers.
- ahill7, on 10/12/2007, -6/+45Didn't we do this dance before? Ugh.
- gquaglia, on 10/12/2007, -14/+52MS definition of their customers: Pirate unless proven otherwise.
- ryodoan, on 10/12/2007, -5/+35I have gotten a false positive before. What happened is windows update locked up during a download, so I forced it to shutdown.
When I went to restart my computer, WGA was screaming at me that my computer was not genuine.
After spending a couple hours going through Windows FAQ's and self help, I used their "Chat with Tech Support" Who told me to instead use the "Email Tech Support and they would get back to me within 24 hours.
I send the email, and then did a google search, the second or third result and a whole list of things I could try, The second fix was restarting my cryptography services, and POOF, everything worked again.
All in all I had to waste over 6 hours trying to convince microsoft that my copy of windows was genuine. Screw that *****. I have now started to use Ubuntu and am gradually moving away from Windows except for my games. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -26/+54What!? You mean there might be consequences to pirating an entire operating system!? NO WAI!
- Sakumi, on 10/12/2007, -9/+37This is all worthless due to the amount of false-positives the system has. I see customers every day with Compaq, Dell, etc computers showing windows is not genuine... when it is. Until they can fix the false positives it's nothing but a waste of time and something to not be taken seriously.
- ngfkjiohodns, on 10/12/2007, -1/+26I wish WGA would send _me_ a cookie...
- i64X, on 10/12/2007, -5/+27Maybe you need hardware that doesn't suck? Blue screens in 2000 or above are 99.999% of the time the result of bad drivers or a failing hardware component.
If you were getting blue screens on startup it was probably a drivers/hardware issue. If so you need to buy stuff from manufacturers who know how to write better drivers, and learn how to troubleshoot.
If you don't want to learn to troubleshoot and don't care about how computers work, then you're probably better off buying a Mac. - Psych77, on 10/12/2007, -13/+33@coredump & badbox
It always makes me laugh the sense of entitlement people have today. "I don't think that product is worth buying, therefore I'm entitled to it for free". If it's really that terrible a product then why do you want it at all? Just stick with your free Linux distro, and accept that it may or may not be able to provide all the services Windows can.
You go down to your local car dealership, tell them there cars are *****, so you're taking one for free. See how far that gets you. Pricks. - i64X, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18No.
A lot of people throw this out... apparently they haven't read the Windows EULA. You down own the operating system... you own a license to use it. Like it or not, MS can do whatever they want with your operating system at any time they want.
That's how MS got rich in the first place. They didn't sell DOS to IBM, they licensed DOS to IBM and got fat checks for every IBM computer sold. This was in the early 80's. Not much has changed. - i64X, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20I've used and supported Windows since version 3.1.
I've used several flavors of Linux since 1995 - 3 or 4 major distributions mostly.
I also played around with BeOS and FreeBSD for a while.
I've owned two Macs (a Powerbook G4 and a G4 Mac Mini). I've also run OSX on a couple of PCs.
I've done development on a couple of Macs running OS8 and OS9.
I had to support OS/2 Warp 4 for developers in a past job.
So yeah - I've had my hand in a few operating systems. Probably more than you have. - Psych77, on 10/12/2007, -7/+20So badbox, I guess you don't pay plumbers for their time?
After all, it's only time, like the time spent developing software.
And when you go to restaurants you ask for an itemisation of each meal and only pay for the raw materials involved in creating that meal, not for the portion allocated to wages for the cook and waiter?
I suppose you refuse to pay interest on loans - you know, there's no physical product, just 1s and 0s flying around the banking system. In fact, for many economies in the developed world the major industries are all service based, with no physical product bought or sold, just peoples time, and an intangible product for money.
Yet you think you have the right to decide when you should and should not pay for that? If you don't want it, don't use it. Don't justify it by saying "they have lots of money", or "it's not a physical product therefore it should be free". That's BS. And when you get a job (and almost certainly ask someone to pay you for your time, not a physical product) maybe you'll realise that. - straxus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Oh, and that said...
@drethedog
Don't come into Windows threads promoting Ubuntu or any other Linux distro. It makes the rest of us (linux users) look bad. It's not like anyone on Digg hasn't heard of Ubuntu already through the dozen stories or so a day on the front page. I'm sure it irritates you when Windows/Mac users troll linux stories, so don't do it. - YellowBook, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14me too pal, I'm ***** starving ;)
- licoricewhip, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17not really
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+20"UBUNTU anybody???"
What is a UBUNTU? Can I eat it? - s6t9eve, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15So what? who cares?
- strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -7/+18@Psych77:
You're trying to debate with a bunch of people who aren't worth the effort. Pointing out the flaws in their reasoning only makes them angry. - okaroleo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12My 10 year evaluation period is over. I finally did the right thing and got me a proper copy.
lol
i mean i actually paid for it.... - astrotrain, on 10/12/2007, -9/+18Just use auto updates but assure YOU choose whats installed ("Notify me but don't automatically down or install them."), and assure to uncheck the WGA Spyware along with the *lol* MS Malicious Tool....
If it did happen to get on your system.... ummm...*cough*
http://www.wikihow.com/Remove-Windows-Genuine-Advantage-Notifications - MrSunshine, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16Photoshop on Linux for normal graphic design people that have a life and don't give a ***** about nerdy emulators anybody?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Phocion...yeah, because their current business strategy clearly isn't working. You know, like becoming the biggest company in the world, and having 20x the market share of Apple,
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9If WINE worked well certainly Windows/Linux market share would be different by now.
So my only conclusion is that it sucks. - jstone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Yeah, switch to a Mac; you'll have even more vendor lock-in, you'll never need to upgrade your computer (you can always buy a new one.), and they may just make your computer obsolete for no apparent reason! (completely true: one of my friends had an old G3 Powerbook that was perfectly capable of running OSX -there was even a hack to do so- but OSX wouldn't install on his system.)
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+15"I'm just pointing out how stupid you are for repeatedly comparing duplicating data to physical labor/items :)"
Really, Einstein? So please tell us why. - MrSunshine, on 10/12/2007, -13/+19Photoshop for Linux anybody?
- GliTCH82, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Well sure, because it makes perfect sense to buy an entire new computer when you could just pay for the OS you were trying to get working in the first place.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6And yet no one cares. Nor should they. The information they get is NOTHING. IT is a SMART business movie, just like Steve Jobs considering all his employees to be spies trying to leak upcoming product information so he gives out fake specs.
- chimeofdeath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"ok smart guy...
Tell me what crashed it"
you tell us, you're the one with all the memory address information telling where the memory dump or whatever actually crashed happened, you also know what you were doing, we don't. - ucbrave92, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I officially HATE Microsoft after my experience today. I updated the drivers for my video card and rebooted, bam my OS was deactivated. I tried to reactivate and of course it wouldn't let me. I called the tech support, and of course it was located in none other than India. I couldn't understand half of what the guy on the other end was saying which made things that much more irritating. I tried to explain my situation multiple times to him and he never could understand it. I would say, "I updated some drivers and rebooted and windows had been deactivated" and he would respond "So you trying to install Windows?" I would tell him no, re-explain myself and we would conduct the drill over and over again. Some of the more interesting responses to my problem were:
"So you buy new computer and can't boot into windows?"
"Did you purchase copy of windows from store?"
"So you installed windows and can't activate?"
There were times when I wanted to just scream "NO, NO, NO!!! I updated my damn drivers and it deactivated my OS, what part of that don't you understand!?!" But I reminded myself that it wasn't his fault and that this job is probably pretty lucrative compared to his other options, and that the people I was really angry with were the idiots at Redmond who have their heads so far up their ass they can't think that this may irritate people. Finally, after 1 hour and 10 minutes, I ***** you not, 1 hour and 10 minutes, Veruseem, or however you spell/pronounce his name finally figured out a little of what my problem exactly was and then......I was transferred! Transferred! As I prepared myself for another hour of excruciating pain another person came on the line. There I sat waiting for the first words to come through the phone thinking that just maybe, he transferred me to some mythical fairy tell support line that is actually staffed by people that speak a language I can understand. No, it was another Indian, now don't get me wrong I have nothing against Indians, they should be working the Indian Tech Support lines, but why oh why are they working the US lines. From previous support experiences I thought that maybe they had a system that would forward the details of my problem on to the next person but no, they didn't. 35 minutes later, after doing the drill once again of stating my problem, hearing some mangled problem that wasn't even close to my own, responding "No" and repeating I began to lose faith.
At this point I was approximately 2 hours and 20 minutes into the call when I was transferred for a third time to the license department. From previous experience with XP I had to call and get a code fixed once and that part was actually someone who either was in an English speaking country or was damn good at pretending. This time, my first experience with Vista support, I wasn't so fortunate.
As I sat in my chair almost in tears of disbelief, looking out the window thinking "why the hell am i doing this?" the license tech began asking me questions. "Did you purchase this copy in a store or on line?" Actually I received it free from my univ. cs department for class, but I didn't even TRY explaining that to him, well I did once and he said, "Oh, so it came with your computer?" At that point I almost lost it completely. I wanted to scream again, "NO I BUILT MY COMPUTER! THIS IS A LEGIT LICENSE IT HAS BEEN INSTALLED SINCE LAUNCH AND A FREAKIN DRIVER UPDATE DEACTIVATED IT!" but once again I kept to myself. He then asked me if I had been given the copy by a friend or had downloaded it on line. I guess this is the real MS policy, everyone's a pirate until proven innocent. Finally after going around this rodeo for about another 40 minutes or so I checked the clock, 3 hours and 10 minutes spent trying to activate windows, all because I updated my drivers, and at least 30 of this spent on trial as a software pirate apparently. I finally convinced the man my copy was legit and he began reading off the 70+ or however many there were numbers to activate by phone. This in itself was an experience, I would say it took at least 6 attempts. Finally, my product was activated and it was complete. As we wrapped up our little dance he asked if I had any questions, I said "Yes, is this going to happen every time I update a driver for a component?" My pulse began to race as I waited for a response, as this driver actually came from Windows Update so I can only imagine what will happen next time I update my video card, which thank god I did after I realized my license was gone before I called in. He responded:
"Yes sir, every time you change a component in your system (and apparently update a driver in some cases) you will be required to reactivate you license."
I hung up the phone in disgust, this policy is absolutely unacceptable, almost 4 hours for this process and I am expected to have to do this again (and as I do update cards, etc. frequently it may happen often)!!! My windows machine is now sitting idle as I contemplate never buying another Microsoft product again, and as I write this I am sitting quite contently at my Mac :) - onidraky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The fact that you say Vista runs just fine on your Mac is proof that it was a hardware problem. If it was just a "crappy OS" it wouldn't run on your Mac either.
- kefs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4skype reading bios = *****
google - strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3And another user is added to my blocked list. Thanks!
- strabes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"normal graphic design people that have a life"
IMO there's no difference in "geekiness" between a programmer and a graphic designer.
I use linux as my main operating system every day. I also go to school full time and have a normal social life. Don't make broad generalizations about people who enjoy or prefer something different than you do. You wouldn't do it to someone that prefers basketball over football; don't do it to people who prefer linux over windows. - Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3To expand on i64X's point; MS bought the license to QDOS (later renamed MS-DOS) for $50,000. They then charged IBM a $50-per-computer license to install (but not own) MS-DOS. It was a brilliant business plan, and one that almost single-handedly landed MS as top-dog in the software industry (as well as the widespread usage of MS-DOS causing people to use Windows 1.0 rather than the better, and earlier, Apple Lisa). Unfortunately, that business plan has stayed, and all that purchasing Windows gets you these days is a license to 'borrow' Windows and a means to use that license (the CD).
- skate3214, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@Phocion55
Bullcrap if this was about apple they wouldn't be screaming that apple was evil, they would find a way to try and justify what apple is doing saying "Oh no this isn't bad this is good, this is nothing like WGA, nothing at all!!!".
So what I find satisfyingly ironic is the fact that you could be so ignorant of how most (not all) Apple supporters, fanboys if you want to call them that, think that Apple can do NOTHING at all bad or "evil" like Microsoft. Face it Apple is a massive business just like Microsoft, so their both going to have their fair share of dirty dealings.
And no I'm not a Microsoft or Apple fanboy, I like them both so don't start with the fanboy stuff. - captainpete, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If I could run OSX on my current PC hardware for the same price as an XP upgrade, I might actually consider it.
- schwit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Using the HOSTS file to block the WGA sites won't help.
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/04/16/1351217 - scabbers, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7MS anti-piracy has worked, because I for one can't be bothered with all the hassle of trying to fight it. Good luck with that market share.
- kymike, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I don't have any problem with Microsoft trying to crack down on software piracy, BUT by the same token, Microsoft should also crack down on "non-piracy".
How many times have any of you misplaced your software discs & keys? Then, needed them to do a re-installation (perhaps you got a new computer, or hard drive crash, etc.), but can't find them? I've had this happen on several occasions (I've moved quite a few times in the past, so I have lots of boxes and things get misplaced.) One time I was desperate (due to a hard drive crash) and needed to get up and running quickly. I couldn't find my Office CD's, and didn't have time to look for them, so I bought a brand new copy of Microsoft Office Small Business Edition - full version, since I couldn't find any other discs to use for upgrade verification!!
Yes, I should probably keep better track of my assets, but that is not the point.
Microsoft keeps track of everything you purchase from them, and they use that information against you with regards to piracy. But they don't do a damn thing when it comes to non-piracy. Microsoft should allow customers to re-download software that they own, along with keys, and should also allow REMOTE VERIFICATION for software upgrade purposes.
As it is, Microsoft takes your information, but doesn't give you anything in return regarding that SAME information. - Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I work tech support for a university in the U.S. that recently re-installed WinXP on about 80 machines (rather, re-imaged). We have a campus-wide license. About 12 of those 80 machines gave WGA errors. I don't even know how that works...
But anyways, moral of the story - WGA false positives exist, and they're absurd. - jstone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Wow. That sucks man. I'm never going to buy Vista. I'll stick to my XP laptop, and when that gives out I'll probably buy one that works right with Linux. Microsoft's insanely strict anti-piracy measures (i shouldn't need to hack my OS to keep it from phoning home), poor tech support and ridiculous licensing schemes (Client Access Licenses, anyone?) are just too much to deal with.
- ucbrave92, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1the main reason i did it is because i was wanting to check and see if this was a symptom of a bigger problem since i sure as hell didn't expect to have to reactivate after a driver update.
- Jammerdelray, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Just go out and buy it....I read all the pirated copies look for illegal activity and report back to microsoft before this story.
- onlysix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1No OS is free. Microsoft may have high prices, but they are getting paid for the work they perform. Apple is also getting paid for the work they perform. Linux users download most of their distributions FOR FREE. Who is paying for their work? Nothing is free; the cost has to come from somewhere. You get what you pay for, right? Piracy is not the answer when you’re complaining about how lame the product is. If you don’t like the business, then don’t support it. BUY another product. MS has their pros and cons, so does Apple and so does Linux.
- strabes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You should have just downloaded openoffice for windows....
- i64X, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@strabes
That's easy to do at home, but it's not so easy in a corporate environment when users are used to having some features that only Office provides... like SharePoint and whatnot. OpenOffice doesn't come with an Outlook clone either, so you'll end up buying Outlook licenses anyway. If you're going to say "use Thunderbird" or something don't bother - Outlook has a TON of nice features that corporate types get used to and don't want to get rid of.
That being said I'm trying to convince a switch over to OOo in my environment, since renewing our Volume License for Office will be several thousand dollars, and our users only use Word and Excel anyway (for which OOo provides nice clones). We get the use of Outlook with our SBS 2003 server, so that's not a big deal.
We'll probably end up making the switch to OOo for just Word and Excel, but that's not a very viable solution for every business.
Again, home use a different story, but home use isn't where MS gets most of their profit (for Office anyway). - i64X, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@kymike
I agree with a nominal replacement fee of media or a fee for downloading.
Have you ever even tried to call them about damaged media? I had a friend that, when Windows 95 came on floppy disks, had one of the installation copy go bad. He called MS customer support and said "Hey, I've got Windows 95 on floppies and one went bad. I have a valid key and the remaining disks... I just need to order Disk X on a single floppy." MS didn't charge him anything, and even sent him an entire series of Windows 95 installation disks for NO charge, not even shipping and handling. (They didn't provide a serial number, obviously).
All companies gather information, so it's not like Microsoft is the only one. Just beacuse they're the biggest doesn't mean they should get any more resentiment for it than anyone else - even though they do. Almost all software packages ask you to register upon installation - it's how companies market and how a free economy works.
Voting with dollars is probably the best thing you can do. The reality though is that Windows is huge, and the bigger you are, the more you're going to get ripped off.
I'm sure one day they'll think up a better solution for anti-piracy than WGA, which is totally flawed, but until then we'll be inconvenienced. It sucks, but it's how all technologies evolve.
As far as product keys and whatnot - I don't see what's wrong with just keeping your CD and serial number for software you buy. If you're smart enough to have a job that allows you to buy an OS, and you're smart enough to install it, then you should be smart enough to make backup copies of your discs and keys - even if it means uploading them to a password protected webspace in a text file - and being adult and responsible enough to keep something without losing it.
@GliTCH82
I, as well as a lot of other people, aren't down with paying $60 (when I bought it) for software that's download only. When I bought HL2, I went to the store and got a boxed, retail copy. That's just my personal opinion, but $60 is a lot for a game and if I spend that much I want something to hold, even if it's not really "mine."
You have to remember that WGA is at its first iteration right now. Is it broken? Yes.
Did you ever play HL2 when it first came out? Steam was down all the time and TONS of people HATED the way Steam worked and didn't want anything to do with it, but you HAD to have it to play the game. Steam wasn't working when you installed - you couldn't play the game you just went to the store and paid $60 for.
I couldn't play my copy for 3 days while they were struggling with the Steam servers because I couldn't get it serialized online.
They eventually fixed it, but it took them a while, and even then people didn't like it. Some people still don't.
I went to a LAN party a few months back and someone had to walk around with a cell phone and a USB adapter so people who were installing the copy of HL2 they went out and bought for the LAN who didn't know they had to serialize it online with Valve could play. Retarded? I thought so.
MS at least gives you 30 days with Windows. Steam gives you 0. - GliTCH82, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You made a big mistake calling tech support. What you're supposed to do is dial the Windows activation number which you can get from the activation screen when you choose "Activate by phone" and then select your country.
- i64X, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I sort of agree with you on this and sorta not.
I do agree that it'd be cool if software companies, not just MS but Adobe etc. as well, set it up so that when you purchased software from them you could create a Passport style login to their site in order to store your keys and re-download software. Sounds kinda cool in theory.
In theory.
You buy a shiny new computer in 2007 with Vista and Office 2007 pre-loaded on it and make a Passport login on MS' site where they provide you with the option to download Vista and Office 2007 and provide you with your keys to both pieces of software. Say in 2009 your PC gets borked and you need to reinstall. Which is harder - finding the original CDs with keys written on them that you didn't take the time to put somewhere safe - or trying to remember your login and password to the Microsoft site, which you made several years ago... then even if you do remember it, you have to download 6GB worth of CDs/DVDs on someone else's computer in order to make copies of the discs that it would have been much easier for you to keep track of.
PLUS - MS will have to pay for all of the bandwidth, the infrastructure that the site login runs on, and the phone and email support that'd be required to tell Joe Blow who lost his Windows CD and doesn't know how to download/burn stuff how to get his stuff back. If he doesn't have access to another computer the poor tech support person gets to hear him bitch about how stupid the solution is to require another computer. AND if he does have access to another computer, but it only has a 56K connection, the tech support person gets to hear him bitch about how it's going to take 3 weeks for him to get his software.
On top of that - what happens when people start getting their logins/passwords for this site phished (which you KNOW would happen) and then their product keys start turning up in warezed versions of the apps online? That person's then responsible and MS would invalidate their keys.
In theory - good idea. In practice - horrible idea.
MS does provide a login site for keys for business customers for Volume Licensing, but doesn't provide software downloads. They do provide software downloads and keys for TechNet subscribers, but members of TechNet and Volume License customers are usually IT staff anyway so I'm sure the support call volume is low - and it works.
For consumers, this kind of a setup would never work. -
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