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- DVRDude, on 10/12/2007, -18/+102"The video shows Ellch and Maynor targeting a specific security flaw in the Macbook's wireless "device driver," the software that allows the internal wireless card to communicate with the underlying OS X operating system. While those device driver flaws are particular to the Macbook -- and presently not publicly disclosed -- Maynor said the two have found at least two similar flaws in device drivers for wireless cards either designed for or embedded in machines running the Windows OS. Still, the presenters said they ultimately decided to run the demo against a Mac due to what Maynor called the "Mac user base aura of smugness on security.""
- eplawless, on 10/12/2007, -39/+110"We're not picking specifically on Macs here, but if you watch those 'Get a Mac' commercials enough, it eventually makes you want to stab one of those users in the eye with a lit cigarette or something," Maynor said."
He's so eloquently expressed that which I've been unable to. Bravo, I say. - spect3r, on 10/12/2007, -22/+89You know, there are ways to state your opinion in ways that don't make you look like a total jerk.
I will revise your sentence for you, and you can keep it in mind for next time:
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"Even though Mac has a long way to go in terms of popularity compared to Microsoft Products. If Macs were so secure, why doesnt everyone use one? I think this article proves that every type of Software, Mac or Not, is vulnerable."
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Have a good day. - invader, on 10/12/2007, -7/+68"Linux doesnt have this problem..."
yeah.. because you have to miraculously get the device working in the first place... - badnewsblair, on 10/12/2007, -25/+78No expert here, but isn't MAC a Media Access Control address and Mac an Apple Macintosh?
- gmillerd, on 10/12/2007, -4/+54Haha, this guy made me laugh. This is why I always eat at Burger King rather than McDonalds would have also been accepted.
- iSEPIC, on 10/12/2007, -2/+32Did you guys even read the article?
Today they are showing the "video" of this exploit at a conference (BLACK HAT - the "professional DEFCON") - they are showing a video because they don't want to use the actual live exploit as people in the audience and or on the lan may intercept the packets and then have the know-how of this exploit and "let the cat out of the bag". - npinski, on 10/12/2007, -28/+56I hate those PCvsMac ads. The reason why Macs are considered more secure, and less succeptible to viruses is simply that noone cares enough to hack them or write viruses for them.
It'd be like Switzerland boasting that their anti-terrorism legistlation has been 100% successfull in preventing terrorist attacks within the country. Noone wants to bomb switzerland, so that's a dumb concept. Same story with Macs. - mitrovarr, on 10/12/2007, -8/+35I don't think it's just the userbase, Macs have a much better security model from the ground up. That being said, it does contribute, as does the fact that most cracker-types loathe Macs and are unwilling to learn or use them. Macs are unappealing for crackers in the same way a pink car is for joyriders.
That being said, I hate those commercials as well. The one that suggests that Macs have better hardware compatibility than Windows can only be described as a filthy lie. Macs support a fair amount of hardware, yes. However, I would be ASTOUNDED if you found hardware that could physically interface with a Windows PC and didn't have drivers available. Absolutely anything and everything works with Windows, if only because hardware companies aren't dumb enough to avoid the giant market they present.
The one that suggests that Macs are used for 'fun' things while Windows is used for boring business applications is also retarded. First of all, software for all the listed tasks is available on Windows as well as Macs. Secondly, let's just ignore the fact that Windows works with 100% of commercial games and Macs work with, what, about 10% on a good day? Not to say game compatibility says anything bad about Macs, games just work on the platform they're designed for, but to suggest that your platform is the fun one when the other platform is the gaming platform is just ludicrous. - Topher06, on 10/12/2007, -19/+46Sarcasm escapes some people, don't it.
Its a classic response of Linux/Mac users to say when there is a negative story about Microsoft "Its because of this that I use Linux/Mac/Unix/BSD/etc".
The joke here is that the DavisFreeberg is using sarcasm to turn the tables on this classic anti-microsoft response by claiming that Windows is more secure then a Mac, in a very tounge-in-cheek way.
Perhaps he should have elaborated, or put [sarcasm] at the end of this comment, but I think that this just proves that people using Mac's have no sense of humour, as opposed to those of us using Windows in which every day is a joke. - misterjangles, on 10/12/2007, -2/+26Apple actually makes a good target for a wireless card driver attack because they have such a small number of hardware configurations. If you see someone with a MacBook Pro 15" you pretty much know what hardware they're running.
- dignation, on 10/12/2007, -6/+26I just knew that when apple ran those commercials that some hacker out there was just waiting to prove them wrong.
- BillyEveryteen, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21"Make your pick, my money lies with Linux."
Mine doesn't...my copy of Ubuntu Linux was free ;) - DVRDude, on 10/12/2007, -5/+24It sounds like they are in contact with a variety of vendors including Apple and are not revealing the specifics because the flaws have not been disclosed or patched. I assume before the end of the week both the video and exploit will end up online. I'll be keeping an eye on YouTube.
- longofest, on 10/12/2007, -20/+39Did you read the article?
"Maynor and Ellch also found two different device driver flaws for wireless products aimed at Windows systems." - panique, on 10/12/2007, -11/+28@burmask, if you actually READ the article, they found similar flaws in other wireless device drivers under WINDOWS too.
- theanticrust, on 10/12/2007, -6/+22The iPod was released in the infancy of MP3 players and the digital music revolution. On a design standpoint it appealed to the common consumer, not just the gadget lovin crowd. It was easy to use and it's intergration with iTunes made it the perfect package. It's competitors at the time lack all of that.
The Mac on the otherhand is not taking over the world because of Windows. Usability is based on what we know, and the entire population knows how to use Windows. People don't want to switch because computers are a large investment especially if you purchasing something your unfamiliar with.
Does that answer you question Burmask? - graystar, on 10/12/2007, -11/+26If there is a hole in an apple a worm has already been there.
- FishPoisonCon, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17Burmask: ..WHY THE ***** DOSEN'T ALMOST EVERYONE IN THE WORLD OWN ONE FAG?
so, by your logic you could say that mcdonald's must have best food in the world because almost everyone has eaten there...
(and in case you haven't noticed, it's against some cosmic rule for "most" people own the "best" of anything) - timdorr, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18"yeah.. because you have to miraculously get the device working in the first place..."
Actually, it's more likely the vendor hasn't even released a Linux driver... There's probably some 0.0.1 alpha version in the kernel tree that's in progreess, though. - Magadass, on 10/12/2007, -25/+38Dear Apple Fanboys,
The above parent comment was a joke, although I realize how sensitive you are and that you do not want anything to interfere with your emo music and torn jeans please get a sense of humor!
Your pal,
Mark Shuttleworth - nullity, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Linux is not immune either, as only proprietary drivers are available for many wireless chipsets.
Point being, all drivers should be open source. Flaws like this could be caught and fixed sooner. The hardware companies have nothing to lose, as open source drivers would mean their hardware would work on more platforms. - DVRDude, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Here's an updated AP story:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=2266507
"Maynor said the MacBook used in the demonstration was not using the wireless gear that shipped with the computer." - thewebguy, on 10/12/2007, -23/+31parent is joking you idiots
- speedyrev, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Why all the hate people? Macs for the most part are more secure. But no operating system is perfect. Wanna go around blind, thinking you're invulnerable, fine, be screwed.
Here's an idea, be informed and use the OS of your choice. I'm a Mac user and glad to know when there is a potential threat. - sixlocal, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Not to be pedantic, but Ventrilo actually has a Mac client now.
- insanemike, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I agreed. Windows now sends shivers down my spine the since last week's article regarding ophack and XP defaulting to LM hashes for its passwords.
The OS X is at least secure to begin with, while XP seems to be secure for only those who know what they are doing.
Note: I know ophack requires time alone with the computer, so my reasoning isn't bulletproof. But for someone living in dorms at a college, who knows who could be using my computer (roomate's friends, etc.). - tommorris, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Well, if Apple does something wrong, it merits a news story. It's man-bites-dog vs. dog-bites-man. As I said above in a comment that got modded down, "Hijacking a Macbook" is a more interesting headline than "Hijacking any laptop with Intel Centrino".
- MadKennyP, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12Wow, you really have some personal issues against people who choose to own Macs.
- bolero421, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12"While those device driver flaws are particular to the Macbook"
I wonder why these flaws would be limited to the Macbook. Don't all of the Intel-Macs use the same AirPort Extreme wireless network card? Why would, say, the drivers be different between the Macbook and the Macbook Pro, or the MiniMac?
Anyone care to shine a little light on this subject? - drakino, on 10/12/2007, -7/+13I'm somewhat disappointed in the person submitting this to digg. The article is about exploits possible on any system with a wireless card regardless of brand, or operating system. This could even mean Linux has an issue as well.
But the submitter had to spin it to be "Oh, look, a Mac does have a security problem". The main point of the story is then lost on any Windows laptop user who also should be aware of this. - DesireCampbell, on 10/12/2007, -15/+20The problem is you are the exemption, not the rule. And the new Mac ads (hell, ALL the Mac ads) perpetuate the idea that all Mac users are mangy, smug, trust-fund morons.
I used to use a Macs, and only Macs. Then my trusty Mac died and I bought a PC. Not because it was a PC but because it was cheaper. Took me a while to switch from Mac, but I've been happily Windows centric (mostly) for the last 8 years or so. My uncle (who's a professor or something.. I don't know. He's got a book in the Harvard library) is "mr. Mac". He uses Macs, only Macs, and nothing but Macs. And I love him to death, but even he's got a bit of smugness about him.
Basically, Apple has to stop acting like its computers are better than everyone else's. The hardware's been going downhill for years (macbook thermal paste anyone?), the software is oppressively expensive, and getting buggier every update.
The only reason to be using a Mac (other than "because it's a Mac") is for iLife. Business work? Linux. Games? Windows (I love how games aren't mentioned in the Mac ads). Want a great looking environment? Gnome is sweet. Want an easy out-of-the-box install? Unbuntu is for you.
Macs are pretty good, but they're not the best - and the smug persona being produced by Apple and it's followers drives people away. - Disko, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"Maynor said the MacBook used in the demonstration was not using the wireless gear that shipped with the computer."
A Macbook out of the box doesn't have this flaw. Article is sensationalist and inaccurate. - addicted44, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Why would someone mad DVRdude down? Read the link he has provided. It is a legitimate link pointing to ABC News, which has a direct quote from Maynor, the guy who discovered this hack, saying that the Macbook they exploited did not contain the standard wireless equipment.
I am not saying that macs are not vulnerable, but their excuse is that they do not want to single macs (how you do that by exploiting only a mac, is beyond me). Yet, what it does show is that this article despite the headline, really does not say anything about macs. What it does say, however, is that despite what system you are using, it is always prudent to be careful online, especially when on a wireless network. - lostngone, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6O yes, because the linux users are so much better.
- tommorris, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4They put bold tags on all the product names in the article - Atheros, MacBook, Microsoft and Windows Vista.
- etherbob, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7I love those commercials. Based on my experience as an IT Professional they ring true. Your millage may vary.
- Baorc, on 10/12/2007, -24/+28These sorts of security flaws are exactly why I use a Windows PC instead of a MAC.
Seriously people, how can you not see the humour in this? This made me laugh big time! - pyalot, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10Grow up you will ya?!
While none of the systems is intrinistically any more secure then the other, it just so happens that Windows gets targeted a lot, Macs not so often, and Linux by a much more specific crowd of blackhats.
However, exploits on linux ar patched swiftly. Exploits on Macs, well nobody really knows. And Exploits on Windows, well everybody knows, and they get either never patched or the patches never reach the users.
Make your pick, my money lies with Linux. - jared92, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10bury pls
- user98887, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7We're not picking specifically on Macs here, but if you watch those 'Get a Mac' commercials enough, it eventually makes you want to stab one of those users in the eye with a lit cigarette or something,"
it was funny just reading the above comment - omaryak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5It's nice they decided to pick on Mac, but Apple never advertised its products were completely free of security flaws. If people are going to use this one story to feel glad they're using a Windows PC, that would be like feeling glad you're in the Middle East just because there's a threat of terrorism in the West.
- tominabox1, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8All of your points are valid, but the new Macs are faster and comparable in price to the similarly configured PC. Yeah, macs don't play a lot of games, its true, but that isn't really their specialty either. As for designer software, the iLife package is not designed to be "fancy, do all" software. It is supposed to make the computer more fun and easy to use. I dont see that kind of "fun easy to use" programs packaged with XP...
As far as boot camp goes, Apple has simply realized the incredible utility of having a computer that a NORMAL user could dual boot with, giving people the "security blanket" of XP while still giving them the ability to switch. Not to mention it makes the Mac gameworthy!
That said, I have both, I love my Mac, it just works better for me. My PC is ok, but it has hardware issues, most likely unrelated to XP but still makes it a PC. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Ah, more proof that fanboys are pieces of crap.
- spectre_25gt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@cjmove:
I really don't understand your comment. You make it sound like the Macbook isn't an Intel based Mac. Could you clarify that please? - tommorris, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8DesireCampbell: Yeah, the Mac has problems. I've had to call AppleCare twice in the last four months. I'm now waiting for a replacement MBP battery. I've been a frequent critic of Apple over their hardware problems and other issues. But to spin a hardware problem with Intel cards in to a criticism of Apple is ridiculous - this problem, if it exists as described, can affect all machines - OS regardless - that use the hardware.
- miker71, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Um, since when has wireless been considered more secure than wired? In other words, if I just use my MacBook on a wired LAN, I can remain a smug git?
I'm sure when the details emerge we'll find out that OS X had to be turned into swiss cheese to enable the exploit to succeed. But then what's conjecture if you have the details and facts?
Usual sensationalist crap. - Steeple, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Can we just hold fire until the first data loss due to an OS X virus actually ever happens?
- rwhiffen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The video was posted:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2006/08/02/VI2006080201424.html
So you can see the 'hack' for yourselves... They go after a 3rd party wifi adapter, not the internal one, doesn't say if the internal is vulnerable or not...
Cheers,
Rich - dignation, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@DeezKnots
You're blaming atheros for this problem when it was apple who integrated the card into the computer in the first place? The article is titled "Hacking a Macbook" not "Hacking OSX". And besides that the OS shouldn't let a WiFi card have that kind of access to the system anyways. -
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