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- kolywater, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13heh, one of the RFID manufacturing companies notes that purchases will be made by face recognition matched to the RFID tags. (http://www.spychips.com/RFIDclothingstoredemo.html)
the funny part is they say the face scan will take 30 seconds. i can just see a store full of people staring blankly at an lcd monitor as it scans their face.
then some windows-like authentication alert comes up saying your face is not valid, and to please call customer service for a new face. - dgaspard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10With wal-mart telling there retailers they have to include RFID in there products are they won't sell them anymore. I don't think you will have a choice if you want to buy them or not.
- limppapa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8The problem with rfid's is how easily they can be hacked.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.05/rfid.html - redfox2600, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I hate to admit it but in this day and age we have no more privacy. If I wanted to I can place a GPS transponder on the underside of your car with a magnet. I can break into your online bank account (since most people use the same username and password for everything) and look up what you have bought within the last month. I can even mod a camcorder to see through your clothing. Your every telephone conversation are placed on the 2.4 GHZ frequency allowing me to simply tune in. If needed I can watch what your watch on TV and read what your reading on a CRT with project tempest.
Most people have cellphones now that are active transmitters all sending a unique serial number quite often to the service provider antenna. It would be much easier to track that thing than say a small chip if it embedded in your pants then well use a different pair. I don't see how a simple passive device that can not be reprogrammed, to be that much of a threat to my current privacy. If walmart really wanted to track what I was buying, RFID wouldn't be an efficient way of doing it.
Also if someone can be so kind to explain how RFID can be read from space as CNN so put it, it would be quite helpful. - demidog, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9There is absolutely nothing scaremongering about this. I have known Katherine for 8 years. All one needs to do is look at internal documents from the industry members and the patents themselves to see what is intended.
RFID is itself in the public domain as the patents for the transponder technology has long expired.
But the patents on payment and tracking systems utilizing it are pretty explicit in their stated intent. You need to read the book by Katherine and Liz to get the details.
The other thing to note is that there is no such thing as a secure RFID payment system. RFID might be fantastic for supply chain inventory systems but it is a horrible in use as a payment system since anyone with a reader can obtain the ID's of any item on your person which contains an RFID chip. How neat is that? RFID chips work on the premise that if you can make a request for the chip to broadcast its ID, then it will do so happily.
The potential for fraud with RFID payment systems is enormous. The potential for privacy invasion is equally enormous.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6For those worried about it, you can buy wallets and passport folders that are Faraday Shielded so they block the radio signal
http://www.difrwear.com/ - zirconx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@aragami (below)
At defcon they did a test where they read them from 69 feet away.
Regardless, 20 feet is plenty, most door ways are less than 10 feet wide. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Pretty much.
- speedyrev, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Maybe they ought to see this!
http://zapatopi.net/afdb/ - skeeto, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Katherine Albrecht is great. She's been at this for a while and it's great to see it here on digg. Her book is recommended reading.
- zaphodfl, on 10/12/2007, -8/+11I used to work in the RFID industry and got out because of the privacy concerns I had at the time. This is technology looking for a reason, not a reason looking for technology. It is being forced fit into so many areas, and if you are not frightened by the data that could be gained by it's use then you are not paying attention.
The technology provides un-fettered access to your where-abouts and your personal information by any system anywhere (Think your social security number broadcasting whenever you walk by an antenna.) These all work in the ISM band as well... What is the ISM band... Noise. Why? Because it is an odd harmonic of water. Imagine all that energy out there vibrating most of the molecules in your body.
Our privacy is slowly slipping away from us. As we continue to use credit cards we can now mine purchasing habits, and find where you purchased that new widget. We have been on this slippery slope for some time now... All in the name of convenience... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Sure. That's been the main platform of the current administration since day 1.
- Lanser84, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Please go to this site and see how insubstantial the arguments and concerns presented are. The headlines of the videos and interviews on the site are far more alarming than the content within them.
- goat77, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Tinfoil wallets?
- NeonDemon, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8RFID tags are just about everywhere now. no need to get paranoid. learn about the tech, don't be afraid of it and run around bitching. You already have a drivers license with a magnetic strip. you already have a national ID number(SSN) calm down!
- OwdenBowden, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3It will go great with my Tinfoil hat
- emooney, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@InferiorWang
How do you see 'the man' abusing this technology against a regular Joe like me? What are the biggest concerns you see? - chrischrischris, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2OMG not the "if you are not doing anything wrong then what do you have to worry about" arguement. What about the American Japanese during WWII? America has a history of making examples of people who haven't done anything wrong.
- chrischrischris, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2There is nothing inherently wrong with RFID as a technology (unless you buy that radio waves cause cancer/sterilization/etc.. but for this exercise we will ignore those). The problem is with the crooked people who know what they are doing. There are examples of companies now that use RFID for payment (Exxon SpeedPass). They are "secure" because your CC is not actually transmitted or even saved on the device. The CC is stored on a local server and all that is passed is a unique identifier that is passed by the device. I personally would not use this. All a person(s) would have to do is mimic your device and then be able to respond again correctly and then they have free gas that you paid for.
RFID for warehouses is great. You can track and have an instant inventory of everything in the warehouse. You can re-arrange the warehouse so that the things that move the most are closest to the door/crane so you can ship them quicker.
RFID for Wal-Mart ("inventory-control) is getting questionable. It is great for Wal-Mart not so great for you (maybe not bad, just not great). By placing readers all over the store they can track when you pick things up, when you put them down, what path you took, and which items you actually end up buying. You ever wonder why milk is always at the far end of the store in the back? Wal-Mart can "learn" what the best layout is so that you buy more. They now know what coupons you use, what you buy, when you buy them, what you stopped and looked at, what path you took, etc... Some people will say this will eventually lead to lower prices. I am a Capitalist so I think it will lead to higher profits. Besides they just dropped a bundle on all of that R&D.
RFID in passports is BAD! Expect an guerrilla/terrorist/drug addict in a foreign country to look for rich/Christian/rich American to walk by and then kidnap/kill/kidnap the American because they know you are American (and may have money for a ransom). After the algorithms are hacked everything that a customs agent has at an Airport the guerrilla/terrorist/etc.. will have. Name, Country of origin, etc... I don't want to be walking in Europe or South America and have the nearest bad guy know all of that. - shashi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@Zaphodl
i too was involved with the MIT Auto ID center and closely with the founders Sanjay Sarma, David Brock. I worked with them on multiple projects and did an internship researching EPC technologies, including a full-fledged deployment project for a major retailer. So I have the same credentials that you have - if not better!
Since you claim to have worked at the AutoID center, think you should know better...
(apologies for the x-post comment below - missed this thread) - Philodox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Wal-mart only tags at the palette level. RFID readers are too expensive and have too poor range to stick all over a store.
- EtaoinShrdlu, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6What is funny is that in this (creepy) flash animation found on the site ( http://www.spychips.com/RFIDairport.html ), the passenger’s name is "Simonak", which happens to be a mild swear word in Québec slang (it means nothing).
- diggduggjoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Her book is not about paranoia. She tells it as it is, as how the patents are stated. The things that a pure RFID world could do are both fantastic and horrific. How it will be is up to us. We must participate in the discussion on how this is implemented.
The possibility of canceling someone's account for political reasons is frightening. - zaphodfl, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6@shashi...
Guess where I came from...
I was involved in the MIT Auto ID Center when it started.
Now you know my creds... What about yours? - shashi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Zaphodl
i too was involved with the MIT Auto ID center and closely with the founders Sanjay Sarma, David Brock. I worked with them on multiple projects and did an internship researching EPC technologies, including a full-fledged deployment project for a major retailer. So I have the same credentials that you have - if not better!
Since you claim to have worked at the AutoID center, think you should know better... - InferiorWang, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@HeonDemon
Funny. My driver's license has no magnetic strip and even if it did it wouldn't be readable by simply walking past a scanner.
And I really wouldn't want people to get my driver's license info, ssn, etc by simply using a scanner. I'm not afraid of the tech. I'm afraid of what people will do with the tech. - ftblguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1These people are really paranoid. RFID is hardly the mark of the beast. It will eventually become however an efficient method of inventory/asset tracking and supply chain management.
- shashi, on 10/12/2007, -9/+9You just amaze me Zaphodl,
you claim to have worked in this industry and claim that "...This is technology looking for a reason, not a reason looking for technology.". Ohh puhleez!
Have you ever heard of supply-chain efficiencies? Having been closely involved in research projects with some major retailers - I can tell you first-hand this technology is enabling them to improve efficiencies significantly. The technology does have teething troubles with read-rates, false reads etc. but even with all that I have seen it work amazingly well.
Please do not post misinformation. - lauchenauermart, on 10/17/2009, -1/+1Katherine Albrecht - Author of Spychips! - is also on Facebook!
There are also serious thoughts that in the SSwine Flu Jabs there might be Nano Microchips - probably the "Hitachi Powder Chip" type.
Check http://www.theflucase.com - evilpig, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3http://duggmirror.com/security/Great_anti_RFID_site
- ryaninc, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Yeah, for real, I think people need to calm down about RFID. Sure there are security concerns, but we're all being tracked everywhere we go already. Every time you use your cell phone, every time you swipe your credit card, every time you use your driver's license, and every time you surf the Internet, companies are logging where you go, what you buy and what you're doing.
- emooney, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I'll admit I don't know allot about RFID yet but I see the privacy advocates jumping all over this one. It's been my experience though that the people raising most of the commotion about privacy are very normal people like me. Besides my SSN, Credit Card Info and a few other select pieces of info, I don't have anything that would be of interest to anyone and I'd be willing to say the same for 98% of the people that are downing this technology. Really, so what if someone knows where my plane is landing. Maybe if I were a double secret agent working undercover, would I be concerned. You're not as important as you think you are! Let the ego go a bit. =)
Unless you're doing something you shouldn't be doing...
In that case, you reap what you sew! - InferiorWang, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@emooney
It appears that you have a very narrow view of the future. Many of us aren't necessarily concerned over what they are doing now, but what could easily be done with this technology in the future. You can't vouch for what the government and companies are going to do in the future and I don't trust them to have my best interests in mind. - shashi, on 10/12/2007, -8/+8I too have been involved with RFID technologies for a while now. This is mere scaremongering and hype about privacy concerns. C'mon people, your cellphone, e-mail, your browser are WAY bigger intrusions into your privacy than all the RFID chips on the products you have bought combined!
This is just insanity and hysteria wrought upon by people like Albrecht -she is laughing all the way to the bank and back. - barsanuphe, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3simonak makes me think of the french word "simonie", which is the (forbidden) practice of selling spiritual goods and services (ie selling a piece of heaven etc).
it would make sense since most Quebecois insults are religious in nature. - im2fast2catch, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0On the 22nd of september there will be a worldwide demonstration against RFID, cities already taking place are amsterdam, berlin, lisbon, viena, leeds, etc...civili liberties groups are advising concerned citizens to march the streets and contact your local lobby groups before its too late. On the 22nd of september, if we do it together, we dont have to do it alone.
- jgjay, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0That's not hacking an RFID tag. That's requesting data from it and receiving it. That's all an RFID tag does. The company is at fault here for using it in an implementation of something totally unsuited (Secure door access).
- Derbigny5, on 12/03/2007, -0/+0I think that RFID is a great technology, but it violates individuals privacy. For instance, all a thief has to do is get a hold of a RFID scanner, and instantly he or she has a list of inventory for an entire household. Also, if RFID is placed in humans, then someone could find out even more personal things.
- christie21, on 12/02/2008, -0/+0I'm sure their are plenty of security issues that still needs to be resolved with RFID but that is no reason to completely abandon hope on the technology.
- BelkinDoog, on 02/03/2009, -0/+0Absolutely. Check out the latest news: http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/02/video-hacker-wa ... . This is outright scary! This is seriously making me considering getting something like this product: http://www.rfid-shield.com/products.php
- kc1man, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0While some people have a tendency to go off the deep end and claim that RFID chips are the end of privacy, there are some real concerns about the applications of the technology. The technology itself obviously is not "evil". There are many areas where RFID technology will greatly improve various industries, and even our lives.
The problem lies in the fact that some of the uses of RFID have serious and real security and privacy implications. Some of these cannot be willfully avoided (passports). RFID differs from magnetic strips and barcodes in that it can be read at a distance. While some products do include shielding and encryption, such measures are not 100% effective at addressing the underlying privacy problem.
It's easy to cry paranoia. People said the same things about identity theft, email spam, and online fraud. Just look to see what kind of problems these evolved into. Given any technology, there will be adverse effects and uses.
In the meantime, if you have an RFID enabled card or passport and wish to add an extra layer of security between your data and those who may want to take it without your permission, visit http://www.rfid-shield.com/ and see what products may address your needs. - mkrygeri, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I cannot stand these type of people...
RFID IS NOT GPS tracking.
Cut off the damn tag in your clothes if you dont' like it. - tablatronix, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1RFID fo' eva !
damn haterz. - kraagenskul, on 10/12/2007, -11/+9Consipracy theory at it's finest. We have a great way to make shopping easier, significantly reduce shoplifting, and reduce prices, and this yahoo wants it all banned. It's all about choice people; if you don't want products with RFID tags, don't buy them! Plenty of products want have them for ages.
- dopyoman, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3No, but it is an issue which in the future will have to be taken seriously.
The site is taking the whole RFID bug this too literally where they have prescribed ways of "killing" these chips.
I for one do not believe its the government or any companies business to track everything I do, it no like my every action isn't being scrutinized enough already. - goat77, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4When exactly did it become cool to be anti-RFID?
- gwjc, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3Cool, I had to check wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French_profanity
though it says "Most terms in sacre have modified, milder euphemistic forms (see minced oath). Such forms are not usually considered nearly as rude as the original, with the exception of simonak." - Does this mean simonac is worse than taber, etc. - kevincannon, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5So you worked in MIT. Sounds like you know a lot about the technology but next to nothing about it's implementation in the real world.
This headline is just scaremongering. RFID is a great technology with loads of great uses. Like many new technologies it's got some security and privacy issues that come along with it. It's merely a reason to be cautious and informed not to lash out and RFID itself. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5and the government plan to track my movements using a chip thats range is less than 20 or so feet?
oh no!!! - TokenUser, on 10/12/2007, -9/+5And your involvement at MIT was what ... janitor?
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