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39 Comments
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15It is widely known amongst those that know such things, that the more complex the system, the easier it is to exploit.
This Big Brother culture that has become popular in some quasi-Democratic countries will only make prisoners of us all; it will not maker us safer or more prosperous. - invader, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14"It is widely known amongst those that know such things"
my head almost exploded after reading this. - xgravix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Hopefully this article proves to everyone once and for all how stupid biometric identification really is. In the case of fingerprints especially, it's like writing your password down on sticky notes and leaving them everywhere you go. Genius. =/
- DanThe1Man, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Five words for you. You can take my DNA
FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS
(I think it would be a good source) - loveandrockets, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Santorum will always be http://www.santorum.com to me.
- RexKwando, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Screw waiting for prints on a window or something. Just cut the damn hand off!
//sarcasm - gellfex, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You guys are all so critical, but anything is an ID improvement over a signature or possession of a name. birthday and SS#. Maybe a low end fingerprint scan isn't appropriate for DOD or corp security but for the consumer level billion$ would be saved. Any clown can now walk into a store with a stolen card and buy. It's way beyond the average thief to spoof fingerprints like they do on Alias. I've had a Citibank card with my photo on it for 16 years. Why isn't this standard? Clerks flip my card to look at the sillyass signature rather than at the photo I have to point out to them.
We have to get real to the fact we have a identity based culture, rather than letting the commercial interests just spread the pain to all of us in the form of higher prices and rates rather than them actually doing something new. - keybsnbits, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Reminds me of the article about spoofing a biometric fingerprint scanner with Gummi Bears.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/05/16/gummi_bears_defeat_fingerprint_sensors/ - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Okay so let's say they make a thumb print scanner that also checks for a pulse and even more "body heat". Can't spoof that huh? What about a tiny thumb condom with the stolen print embossed on it? Such a thing could easily be made with just a couple of relatively easy to purchase machines. (I won't say which) Pulse accounted for, body heat found, thumb print indentified, transaction complete. Your bank account is now empty.
- Kained, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Digg that.
At any level of human interaction with a secure system, the system can be broken. - glucoseboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I agree with zululord:
Whether or not it is easy or not to spoof is not the reason why I think biometric passwords and such are a bad idea. The problem is that you can't change these biometric markers, they are always with you. So, if there are any errors in the database regarding information that is linked to this marker, it will be a major pain to change if not impossible.
Think of it this way, your login in password are always the same now. If there is a problem, you can't get issued a new login or password. - benjholla, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Reminds me of the movie gattica. Not sure if anyone already said that I only read about half the comments, so sorry if someone already mentioned it.
- somnus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If that link goes to what I'm pretty sure it goes to, please use a NSFW (if appropriate...).
- scards, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The problem is not biometrics opening holes. The problem is too many people/companies/banks rely on ONE form of security and that's about it. The only way to make things truly secure is to have multiple forms of security.
Retinal scans can't be duplicated like fingerprints - but don't just count on retinal scans. Try the use of retinal scans in conjunction with voice pattern recognition and rotating secure IDs for instance.
Multi-layered, multi-faceted security systems are the only secure systems. And even then there's still holes. But you can't be afraid to move forward because of 'what might happen' or we'll all just be stuck in 2006, and what a boring reality that would be. - zululord, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is one of the other reason why "biometrics" is not best for multi-factor authentication.
One of the better option is smart-card, RSA Key Token etc ...
Agreed that its something else you need to carry, but at least these can be revoked, u just can't revoke someones voice / thumb-print etc.
My two cents. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This article and its responses are so funny - in Australia, 'spoof' means something completely different to most people. It does involve DNA though.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1bring back the broken, this could be a good topic
- raybury, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Lovely. Years ago I wrote to my Senator (who was on the banking committee) about the propensity for banks to require thumbprints for cashing on-them checks, before and above any i.d. requirements. I write you a check from ThatBank, you go to ThatBank, which can check my balance, verify my signature with their records, and even call me if they have some concerns, yet ThatBank requires your thumbprint to cash the check. I had posited a more complex system whereby, when the check was returned or its image made available to me, I could use your fingerprint to plant fake evidence at, say, a jewelry heist. Biometrics opens that sort of fraud to much more costly pursuits.
Oh, and I never heard back from Senator Rick Santorum, leader of a misguided group of conservatives who think that legislating morality works any better in the U.S. than it does in Saudi Arabia. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Okay so let's say they make a thumb print scanner that also checks for a pulse and even more "body heat" and in addition a retinal scanner (which usually scans the iris configuration not the blood vessels). Can't spoof that huh?
What about a tiny thumb condom with the stolen print embossed on it? And maybe a glass eye designed using photos of the victim's eye from their last eye check up? Such things could easily be made with just a couple of relatively easy to purchase machines. (I won't say which) Pulse accounted for, body heat found, thumb print indentified, retinal iris scan authorized, transaction complete. Your bank account is now empty. - bamiam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1good thing ive never seen gattaca, or i might tell you that this idea is almost a decade old
- Coppertop, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I had something like this happen to me recently - except he didn't steal my fingerprint, he stole my thumb. Console gaming is so difficult now :(
fake edit: < /lies> - Sukino, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1All your biometrics are belong to us.
-- I know it's a study. - Sheco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That's not silly, just plain dumb. Do you think people would spend their money equally? how about those who save their money? how about those who go gambling and lose everything the first day (thus giving it to somebody else who now has twice as much). Poor people are poor mostly because they do not know how to improve themselves, maybe they just didn't get the education, maybe they can't get it.
Think of it as your family, you have 10 kids, and want to keep things balanced, you give 100 dollars to each one of them, what do you think they'll do with their money? some of them will just waste it, some of them will invest it, some of them will find a way to make more.
Enough said. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Best way would be to include a pulse and body heat sensor and also include a needle phase that samples the blood of the user and verifies the DNA. but even that would still be spoofable, if somewhat more difficult.
Facial and retinal identification remains spoofable as well. You can make it more difficult but you simly can't stop it. Think plastic surgery and glass eyes (can't discude those people have them and can make them look perfectly real down to the finest detail in the iris.). - scards, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That's why you need to layer security. Sure biometrics may never change - but even so - your fingerprint in conjunction with a rotating secure ID or possibly implanted RFID chip which is coded to do roughly the same will serve to protect better.
It's why the password to turn your computer on should never be the same as the password to turn the screen saver off. Multiple layers of security are needed. There's no one magic wand to open everything that can't be fooled around with. - loveandrockets, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I was going to post that article but lost the link. Thanks.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2doesn't matter how many warnings there are they will still try to make this stuff work. Why? Because that's where the money is at. Solution? Get rid of money. Take all the money in the world and devide it evenly among every family in the world. By calculations that would give everyone on Earth enough to live a middle-class lifestyle for the rest of their lives. Then continue on a basis where everyone recieves the same credit for the work they do based on time spent regardless of it's supposed importance or difficulty. But oh the 3% that rule the world with their money would never let that happen. And many less wealthy would still complain because they think their job is worth more then someone else's. People are greedy. We need to get past that or we will never truly move forward.
- 70percent, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I agree. No bank would use a system that can be spoofed in such a manner. Also double authentication methods could help prevent abuse. A decent biometric system added to online passwords is a HUGE improvement over current methods used to secure your online banking account for instance.
If credit card companies required some kind of authentication like this, we wouldn't have so much identity theft. - MarkByers, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2That's a silly suggestion.
- NerdyNinja, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0How would it be higher quality? I don't see how you can make thumbprint scanners foolproof. It needs the pattern off the thumb - not many ways you can improve that. So what do you do? You check for a pulse (thumb has a decent artery going through it, so this is viable) and heat. These could be easily spoofed -> just have your gelatin thumb or whatever have a little thing inside that pulses rhymthmically and hold the thing in your armpit to heat it up or something.
Only way to make it more secure is to use multiple authentication services, but I don't know of anything foolproof. Best bet that I know of so far is analzying the pattern of veins in someone's hands/arms. Iris or voice scanners all have seemingly unfixable problems, just like print scanners. - NerdyNinja, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Dude, are you a communist?
- gellfex, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Something you carry, like the national ID card that gets both L & R fringes howling about big brother? If it had embedded biometrics it'd be getting there.
- agentzappo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0the best biometric sensors available are not looking for heat or a pulse. Believe it or not, there is an underlying fingerprint as well that some are able to read. Also, there are other factors that can be detected, those which are not as easily spoofed by something like gelatin.
and by the way, funny enough, gelatin is not the best thing to spoof the ***** sensors. - temugen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Agreed... this is not the crime of the future, but rather the crime of the present. I've even done it myself (in a controlled environment with equipment for testing). In fact, about a year ago I saw a piece on Attack of the Show about how to fool biometric scanners. Iris scanning and facial recognition systems seem to provide a slightly higher level of security. It sounds like a great idea for us to not have to carry extra items with us wherever we go, I'd love for it to happen, but there really needs to be some more security. Perhaps a password along with the biometrics would suffice.
- greenrider, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Crime of the future, my ass.
The film Demolition Man predicted this type of crime years ago. Their version involved Wesley Snipes, a knife, and some poor prison warden's eyeball.
Yet another reason why Demolition Man is one of the most underrated movies ever. That, and the three seashells. I can't believe you don't know about the three seashells. - Teaboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I hate it when people put a space before the article title so that it juts out slightly on the RSS feed. Digg, please trim the titles!!
- friend18, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Good thing I keep my savings in a box under my bed. :)
- vibri2001, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2What's your address?
//sarcasm - agentzappo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I will go out of my way to tell you guys that only the ***** fingerprint sensors you can buy at Wal-Mart, etc.. are going to be spoofed by something as dumb as "lifting" your print off something. Any kind of quality sensor looks for WAYYY more than just the print. In fact, every comment i've read on this article is so far off, it's not even funny.
Any kind of fingerprint sensor that would be used in something as important as financial accounting, banks, etc. would be of higher quality, and not spoofed as easily as this story wants to you believe.
Retinal scans are nowhere near being able to be used effectively with any of that. It's simply too hard, as the blood vessel patterns in your eyes change with your health. Unless you maintained consistent health all the time, it just wouldn't happen.
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