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81 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"When is the last time anyone of you were affected by the patriot act? I am not exactly for it but come on the chance of it interfering with your life are pretty much nothing."
You are affected by it everyday, whether you know it or not.
Just like the NSA Spying on Phone Calls. You were affected whether you knew it or not.
Stand up for your rights, if you remember what those were. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Funny, feel about as safe and threatened as i did before 9.11.
But I have lost more rights and privacy, yet feel none the safer. - StarWarsFever, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4damn
I thought time progressed forwards.. silly me, I had no idea it was 1984.... - 4answer2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Land of the Free, my ass
- sk545, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3well, the thing is no one cares. Americans aren't interested in news, laws, or how the country works. They want Entertainment (ok, news can be a "entertainment" at times), Sports, weird shows, video games, ipods. All the mainstream American knows is what the hear from other poorly informed people and catching part of news during commercial breaks.
I don't blame them...News is basically about how many people died and how many accidents there were. Its quite pathetic and sad. Only thing its good for is the weather, even that the channel doesn't get right at times.
On top of that, people are just too busy working 9-5 and fighting traffic. The two days they get off (if they get them off), they HAVE to see entertainment or relax. Otherwise they will go mad. Its all a circle. - thenativeraver, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I wonder if they are just going to keep extending it, I'm starting to think this will happen.
- joel2600, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2well if they repealed the estate tax, renewing these things should be a cinch
who cares what the public wants - shakin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Well there have been no terrorist attacks since 9/11. It seems to be working well. ... Tell me where I'm going wrong."
For starters, you think it's ok to give up freedom in exchange for potential security. In fact, I have yet to hear of a single instance where rights given to law enforcement in the PATRIOT Act has led to the arrest of a terrorist or helped avoid an attack. If it had been used in such a way Bush surely would have talked about it because it would be proof at how good the act is at fighting piracy.
To put it in perspective, when Canada introduced a controversial gun registry, anti-gun activists asked if everyone would rather register their guns or allow criminals to buy guns that cannot be traced back to them. Sounds like an ok deal, but criminals don't use legal, registered guns to begin with so the registry program has not led to any arrests.
Terrorists will simply communicate in ways that the PATRIOT Act cannot detect. High-grade encryption is easy to use. Terrorists can simply meet in person instead of using tapped phone lines. Terrorists can use undetectable codes to start an operation. Smoke signals to offshore boats would work!
However, the PATRIOT Act is very well positioned to spy on Americans who are not trying to commit terrorism. Most people won't bother to protect their communications from spying so the feds will have a nearly 100% success rate spying on everybody who isn't a terrorist. - CaptainSanchez, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3""who cares what the public wants"......"Almost two-thirds of all Americans, 64 percent, said they support the Patriot Act."......Hello."
This goes to show you how well Americans are informed. Perhaps some people should have read through the first 5 pages alone of the patriot act. My stomach turned. - crom99, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3WrecksTXP: '"Almost two-thirds of all Americans, 64 percent, said they support the Patriot Act."......Hello.'
From the same article:
"Fewer than half of Americans know the purpose of the Patriot Act, and the more they know about it the less they like it, according to a poll released Monday."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2005/08/29/national/w151949D27.DTL - lollerskates, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3nrweaver: When was the last time a Nazi or Communist kicked down your door? Just because you weren't affected doesn't mean you can't be against it.
- prgrmmr736, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@rsims17
"Jerry Springer Final Thought:
Id rather be alive and have the NSA know about my ***** than dead and living in secrecy"
As wise as Jerry Springer is (rolling eyes) I perfer this one:
"Give Me Liberty Or Give Me Death" - Patrick Henry - briando, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's ironic that America is fighting to maintain freedom, yet it passes laws that restrict it. Hopefully, this fear of terrorism will dull down and the Patriot Act dies out.
- weirdone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1People have to step back and look at it a little bit...
The extension passed 99-1 =/
just can't be all that horrible :( - lineman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Bush is taking over. There. Someone had to say it. We're all doooooooooooomed.
- skeeto, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1They're going to keep extending it until the next war begins, then it'll stay while everyone is freaked out.
It's still a trip how many people have not read it, AND how congress pushed it through, WITHOUT READING IT, right after 9/11. The genius eggheads that are experts on how to fool the average American with all the spin give it a pretty name like "Patriot Act" and make it sound all rosy when it's not. - moshazu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2What a pile of crap. Why don't they just vote on it already and just say it is reinstated for the duration of the Bush term?
Nothing patriotic about it, in my mind!! - meatypuffs, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Hmm, I could really see another Bin Laden tape or some important Al-Qaeda member release another tape within these 5 weeks, which will then lead to the further extention of this act for at least a few years.
- lastholdout, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.
Edmund Burke
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.
Edward Abbey
Only the educated are free.
Epictetus
Enhance the patriot act. Let's commence with police roadblocks on every major intersection. We'll call it the
patriot highway act. We'll all be safer, and besides there
are no roaches in my ashtray, so why should I care?
We all know the sad state of our school system, why expect the majority of us to understand the implications
of the patriot act or Orwellian double-speak? - FAT_PIGGY, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1www.infowars.com
- WrecksTXP, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Why is it that people think that freedom means you get to do whatever you want and everyone else just minds their own business? That's not what freedom is.
- diggnationdevon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Well the patriot act should be here, but there are things that need to be out of it.
- stickyboot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Booooooooooo
- prgrmmr736, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@rsims17
As far as missing the irony in your post may I suggest using 'sarcasm' XML style tags to prevent such confusion in the future. Example: "Id rather be alive and have the NSA know about my ***** than dead and living in secrecy"
In regard to the Patrick Henry quote being out of context lets consider some situational similarities:
1. The nation as it were was at war with a powerful enemy.
2. The idea of security being more important than freedom was becoming prevalent.
3. The message being delivered in the quote was that it was better to meet death than to live in fear. A major argument today of those who oppose the patriot act.
Also you may consider some reading on the patriot act from this article by the ACLU dated November 2003.
http://www.aclu.org//safefree/resources/17343res20031114.html
I hope this is logical enough. - rsims17, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0you just sited the ACLU as your support about the patriot act, the only reference you should need is the act it self, funny thing about our laws, you can always get a copy. so sorry try again.
generalizations, i can connect the tsunami to a monkeys fart with generalizations. oh and we arnt scaraficing freedoms, this has become seriously turned some how freedoms and the gov. tapping phones are togather now well makes sense to me but first let my wrap my head in tin foil and take my space ship to see santa clause. Yes better to be dead than to live in fear. so what does the patriot act ahve to do with fear? it doesnt change the way you live your life so i fail to see how the quote applies. care to try again? - banana234, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The biggest problem I have with the patriot act, is that if you're name is on the list, then lawyers are not legally allowed to represent you. So if your name is put on the list by accident, like someone else has the same name and you aren't being allowed to do things because you are "on" the list (which has happened), you are not legally able to get you're name off the list. That means no bank transactions, no traveling and so on. Any law that makes it so that you can't be legally represented is horrible.
- Rossye, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0In Austin Texas the Mayor and City Council voted to throw out the Act and did. They do not honor the Patriot Act and do not allow thier police. They send police to a Bill of Right educational class.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4116664323318911505&q=alex+jones
Say whot you want about Alex Jones but he lead this battle and won. - rsims17, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I never said you couldn't express your opinion, its in debate or any discussion that one should provide support to there opinions. that's where these open forums get interesting.
Anyways good to see your fighting to make it easier for someone to blow themselves up in DC, you should look into being a defense attorney, they make a good living setting murders free.
That's opinion, and i sense a little hostility. You don't like me questioning your opinions i take it. - 5blocksfree, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0WrecksTXP wrote: "who cares what the public wants"......"Almost two-thirds of all Americans, 64 percent, said they support the Patriot Act."......Hello.
How many of those 64% do you think know anything about it other than its title? - BGFeltenink, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Whoever wrote the act should be beaten up and dumpsterd.
- Digg32539, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Found this interesting
"`(C) when the United States is engaged in armed hostilities or has been attacked by a foreign country or foreign nationals, confiscate any property, subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, of any foreign person, foreign organization, or foreign country that he determines has planned, authorized, aided, or engaged in such hostilities or attacks against the United States; and all right, title, and interest in any property so confiscated shall vest, when, as, and upon the terms directed by the President, in such agency or person as the President may designate from time to time, and upon such terms and conditions as the President may prescribe, such interest or property shall be held, used, administered, liquidated, sold, or otherwise dealt with in the interest of and for the benefit of the United States, and such designated agency or person may perform any and all acts incident to the accomplishment or furtherance of these purposes."
This says that they can basically wiretap anyones phone as long as the President agrees... - colebarnes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm to the point where I just think we should start over from scratch with all this mess. And disallow any currently serving elected official from participating. George Bush, Ted Kennedy, (name your own self-absorbed, dimwitted politician here). Nothing is ever going to change with the current bunch in Washington because none of them can see past their party blinders and do what is right for the people who they work for. We should fire them all... Don't vote for incumbents!
Sorry... I'm excitable... Just remember, they're supposed to do what we say (not the other way around).
geez, I hate politics... - prgrmmr736, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@rsims17
I actually did NOT cite the ACLU as my support of the patriot act; instead I was providing a link to where more information on the patriot act could be found. And just to be clear I do not support the patriot act. As far as having a copy of it, one is available on the site I linked to by clicking the hyperlink "Text of the USA PATRIOT Act". Good luck with that trip to see Santa. - PureMassacre, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"Pre-911 USA, not world. The USA is not the world."
911 affected more than just the USA - rsims17, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Why is it that people think that freedom means you get to do whatever you want and everyone else just minds their own business? That's not what freedom is."
Well said. - Mattman723, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0They should add a provision that keeps elephants at bay. I would feel protected from stampedes if that were the case.
- Frebis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I wonder if google will be involved with this? Oh yes thats right they could care less about the safety of the country and terrorist attacks...They just want to know what kind of pron to spam your searches with...
Everyone use linux! it is secure enough not even the government can crack it! Unless they have somone who went to ITT Tech for 3 months and then dropped out...... - missindependent, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0work as attorney to free murderers???? Um.. u got this a bit personal.. do u know what they say abt that its a sign u lost ur argument HA
- pgm_01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The founders of this nation would be ashamed at the pure cowardice that this act represents. We have faced far greater threats without restricting freedom.
How does knowing what books a person read help find terrorists? It is not like you find Bob the terrorist because he checks out Bomb Making For Dummies and Terrorism For Idiots. It is an unnecessary intrusion into peoples lives and only hurts the search for the true terrorists.
Then again, maybe this act does not go far enough. Why shouldn't we install cameras in all locations, public and private. The cameras could be run through a huge system of computers that only send suspicious activity to the authorities to review. Every rapist and child molester would have nowhere to hide and drug dealers would always be caught. If you are not doing anything illegal then this should not interfere with your life in anyway. Clearly the safety and security of the nation outweighs any discomfort of having your every action monitored by a computer. There would be a sharp decline in crime and all you would lose is some privacy every once in awhile. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Whoever supports that piece of crap patriot act, are well, basically ***** morons. Get educated you dumbasses!
- nnonix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0No digg. Political SPAM and reported as such.
- smcgrath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0In all honesty, those who are willing to give up their freedoms at a drop of a hat like so many have, most likely have never had to call upon those freedoms in the first place. I have never been arrested, and never plan to be, but if there was ever the case where I was pulled into custody, I have the comfort knowing that I have the legal right to an attorney, regardless if I am innocent or guilty. One of the powers the Patriot Act was seen in the Jose Padilla case, otherwise known as the "dirty bomber" case.
May 8, 2002, Padilla was picked up as a material witness while flying into Chicago O'Hare Airport. A month later, he was classified as an "enemy combatant" and transferred to a Navy Brig, where he was prevented from seeing his lawyers for two years. Now REGARDLESS of how you feel about Jose Padilla, I am using this for an example of what exactly what has occurred in the wake of the Patriot Act . The Patriot Act allows for executive arrests and the suspension of habeas corpus of immigrants. It also allowed the gray area for Padilla to fall into, as an American citizen listed as an enemy combatant.
But this then begs the question, what is habeas corpus? Well you can read a better definition here:
http://www.lectlaw.com/def/h001.htm
or I can give a basic run down. Habeas corpus is a petition to the court, for an inmate to be taken to a court and determined whether or not they should be imprisoned. The inmate must demonstrate an error has taken case in order for the request to go forward. In Brown v. Vasquez (9th Cir. 1991), the court cited the Supreme Court had
"recognized the fact that`[t]he writ of habeas corpus is the fundamental instrument for safeguarding individual freedom against arbitrary and lawless state action.'
So where does this Habeas corpus fall in the scheme of things, if its so important the Founding Fathers would have said something, right? They did. It can be found in Article 1 Section 9 of the Constitution:
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec9
And reading it there you find there are two clauses attached. The writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended unless cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it. Here is where the debate really begins. The Constitution shows that in matters of grave concern over national security, the congress can allow the executive branch to detain people without trial. But Congress hasn't suspended habeas, and the Administration read between the lines to gain the ability to deny the right to Padilla.
And now we come to the crossroads. While you may feel secure in that you will never find yourself in this kind of mess, do you really want to throw out the one thing that could end up saving you? In my mind what makes this whole story so scary is not that I think it will happen to me, and it is not that it will widespread and over abused, it is the one time someone would use this the wrong way. And that is not a veiled jab at the President, it is for anyone who would misuse this power down the road if it was made permanent.
Just some food for thought, please don't willingly offer to give up your rights as an American, that above all else is what makes us who we are. - Lendyl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0In my opinion...
911 was the trigger, Bush was the weapon and Osama has done serious damage to the US.
I'm Canadian and am not anti American. Just the way it looks from the other side of the fence. - rsims17, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Whoever supports that piece of crap patriot act, are well, basically ***** morons. Get educated you dumbasses!"
Shall we debate this or just throw back mindless insults to make ourselves feel superior? - NekstBestThing, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Ah. Politics come back to Digg.
I remind you to thank the right wing ultra conservervative christian extremist republicans. - prgrmmr736, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@rsims17
I did NOT cite the ACLU as my SUPPORT of the patriot act; instead I was providing a link (WWW.ACLU.ORG) to where more information on the patriot act could be found. And just because something does not directly impact me does not make it right and does not deny me the right to express an opinion on it. If you do not like that link here are some alternatives:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act
http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:h.r.03162:
Or one last alternative:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=patriot+act&btnG=Google+Search - Rossye, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"The liberties of none are safe unless the liberties of all are protected." - William O. Douglas
I can't believe how many ignorant comment I see here. Mirunit "Please tell me how any of you have been directly effected by the patriot act. The point is - IF YOUR NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG then theres nothing to worry about. When the only thing you do is work and play that silly game, Your right you have nothing to worry about until the tyranny comes to your door in a uniform to take you away from your precious little video game. - slamm6, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I know this always get's posted, but I love it:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." B. Franklin
I wonder if ole Ben would be considered a "patriot" in the modern sense. - 4answer2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0People don't care as long as they can stare at the glass nipple at night
- rsims17, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0wait you didn't site the ACLU, so i guess the fact your link says ACLU.org is like the acclaimed chess league union. if you wanted to site the act itself your link would have been straight to the pdf file that they host, like this.
http://www.aclu.org/FilesPDFs/patriot_text.pdf
No you wanted to site something that inherently has a bias. Site the law that's on the books not someone else interpretation. that's called third person, and is one of a handful of very flawed ways to present an argument.
I'm curious, how was this act affect your daily life? -
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