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- nixonrichard, on 10/12/2007, -25/+290In all fairness, Canada has spies in China trying to steal their recipe for sticky rice.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -31/+252those crazy canooks had better gaurd that maple syrup recipe closely, the Chinese are after it
- Berkana, on 10/12/2007, -2/+129I read an article elsewhere on the "Redberry" saga, and it's a lot more complicated than just reverse engineering the product. Blackberry wanted to introduce its technology to the Chinese market, but they were bogged down with an unusually heavy load of ***** red tape for an unexpectedly long time. As soon as they made it through the red tape, they found that China's Unicom had virtually cloned the Blackberry service, and was already on the market with a significant headstart over Blackberry. Basically, the red tape was to buy China Unicom time to implement the software and networking technology they had stolen from Blackberry so they could beat them to the market with a product that did exactly what Blackberry's did, but at a lower price (since they didn't spend a dime developing it).
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/apr2006/tc20060413_266291.htm?campaign_id=topStories_ssi_5
http://www.cellular-news.com/story/17117.php
On one hand China's leaders say they take intellectual property rights seriously, but on the other, government owned companies like China Unicom (which the government owns a majority share in) are in cahoots with their legal system to bog down competitors they've enticed into entering the Chinese market until they can implement stolen technology ahead of the game.
Meanwhile, Chinese law mandates that any company doing business in China must use Chinese encryption systems when sending secure communications. Fortunately, Intel backed out of a major deal where they would have been required to use the Chinese encryption standard to do business in China a couple of years ago. They say this is for security's sake, but what actually happens is that they have a back door by which their "law enforcement agencies" read all your mail and files and in the process, steal all your technology and hands it off to your Chinese competitors. The "largest market in the world" is a ***** sham to lure gullible tech companies in to get fleeced; it's not a market worth your time if you can't make money off of it, and you can't make money off of it if your technology is going to be pilfered and mass produced at cut rate prices with Chinese government cooperation. - Daiken, on 10/12/2007, -6/+120It's really unfortunate that this is happening, but it's damn near impossible to stop. I mean, lets say you're just some regular employee at RIM who's working on their new product. Some Chinese person comes up, offers you say $20,000 for a few schematics and that's it. You think about how it doesn't really affect you much and that you can have a nice vacation or pay off that loan, and boom. In a few months the Chinese have a clone of your product.
To prevent this, you essentially have to have a workforce that is 100% loyal to their employer, but in a world where money is the only thing that really matters, that's pretty darn near impossible to do. - Speed, on 10/12/2007, -7/+85kallstar, have you ever been to Vancouver? I rest my case.
But if they really want to steal any North American technology, why bother with spies here? All the stuffs made in China anyways. You'd think a totalitarian Communist government would be able to peak in at a factory or two... - wonderchemist, on 10/12/2007, -6/+59"stealing technologies, such as the Blackberry cellphone"
In this case, wouldn't it be easier to buy one, sent it back to China and reverse engineer it? I'm sure they can track down the parts, seeing most of them were in China to begin with. - Revan01, on 10/12/2007, -7/+57Um, duh? eh?
The article basically implies that if there are 1000 in Canada, how many do you think there are in the US? - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -12/+62"Some Chinese person comes up, offers you say $20,000 for a few schematics and that's it. You think about how it doesn't really affect you much and that you can have a nice vacation or pay off that loan, and boom. In a few months the Chinese have a clone of your product."
Or, get this, even better. You tell your supervisor about the craazy Chinese guy who offered you $20k to get schematics for the project. Instead of being fired and put out on your ass to never work at any tech company ever again, you're lauded and given a bonus for stopping industrial espionage. In a few months, when the product hits the streets anyways, the Chinese can copy it then. Futhermore, since you're probably building the device in China or Taiwan, they're going to end up seeing it anyways. There's no use trying to protect it, just write damned good software and Flash the ROMs in house so your Chinese assemblers can't steal the entire design.
I know, it sounds crazy when put that way. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -11/+60"how many do you think there are in the US?"
None. They tightened airports security, no spy can get in. - nizam, on 10/12/2007, -9/+52it's not just canada - chinese spies have also been stealing blueprints for military weapons in the U.S.
- beni, on 10/12/2007, -3/+45Chinese R&D: Rip-off and Duplicate.
- Speed, on 10/12/2007, -14/+55kallstar, you should also remember that Canada has a population of 32 million people. And to spy on us adequately, you only need spies in Vancouver, Toronto and Ottawa. That's 333.33333333333333333333333333333(and so on) people per city. I'd have to say that's probably plenty. (But I'd hate to be the last guy to get split into thirds to ensure equal coverage)
- actionmike, on 10/12/2007, -7/+48it's "canucks", smart ass...
- Berkana, on 10/12/2007, -5/+45The article doesn't actually say a defector revealed anything. The term 'defector' doesn't even appear in the article.
- n8dawg87, on 10/12/2007, -13/+51**NOTE FOR NON-CANADIANS: canada.com is run by Global News which is the Canadian equivalent to Fox News. They are the brilliant minds who come of with three or four word headlines on the pixelboards in Young and Dundas Square in Toronto summarizing some of the most complex issues. Just to quote a few, "Harper backs Spain", "Oil Refinery Closed", "Business International makes Economy". So please take this with a box of salt...
- Speed, on 10/12/2007, -8/+42Revan, actually, since it's a Canadian newspaper that the story is from, I doubt that it's implying how many are in the States. Canadian papers like to focus on Canada for some strange reason.
Next time RTFA, it says and implies nothing about the USA - hackajar, on 10/12/2007, -3/+33http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_Rain
China is systematically getting every bit of information, if it has purpose currently or not, from everyone. This fits into their brute force mentality for pushing the country into a super power "Core" role as Thomas Barnett has stated in "The Pentagon's New Map" (written in 2004) - foxymcfox, on 10/12/2007, -9/+34You're drunk?
- oskite, on 10/12/2007, -9/+30Haha, they don't even know that redberries aren't real.
[edit] so uh, I shoulda used google. digg me down. :( i'll keep my comment up for well-deserved shame. - benitojuarez, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21Damn Commies and their Redberries......waaaaait a sec.
- Speed, on 10/12/2007, -4/+23Keep in mind that's probably CAD, so it's only like $12 USD (the price of a Starbucks Coffee).
(Note the above is a joke to those without humor. I am in fact Canadian, so I fell that gives me the right to make fun of my country) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21I hope not. China would be like the US, except 100x worse.
- CodeCobalt, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21How can you try and say the article doesn't imply that there must also be a large number of spies in the states, europe, and everywhere... Hence why the title says "1,000 Spies in Canada Alone." If I wanted to stress the fact that I had several houses, I would say " I have several houses in Massachusetts alone," implying I have more in other states.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16"Exactly what we were saying about the japanese a few decades ago. Now they create a whole bunch of the technology we try to copy."
Doesn't make China less of a "rip off & duplicate" country now, does it? - Asianwaste, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19If they manage to do this, they'll probably be utterly destroyed by a bunch of cannibals on horseback again.
- Y0tsuya, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Nelson: Ha ha!
Companies that try to crack the Chinese market, often get cracked themselves. Doesn't keep more of them from trying though. - imontoya, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Jeez... does anyone RTFA anymore? The article is Canadian, from a Canadian perspective, and says nothing about the USA, Europe or any other country. It took me all of 3 minutes to read it. It implies nothing. It doesn't mention "Chinese defector" nor does it contain the word "alone" anywhere in the article.
It says only this: "News reports last year said there are as many as 1,000 Chinese economic spies operating in Canada".
The poster chose to pull crap out of his or her ass, make stuff up and sensationalize it on Digg. - sanman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Actually, Kiefer is originally Canadian. See -- Canadians can infiltrate too.
- flag564, on 10/12/2007, -9/+19"None. They tightened airports security, no spy can get in."
The 3,000 mile long Mexican international airport doesn't have much security. - Speed, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10How about the fact that all business is owned by the government in China? Chinese company makes money mean Chinese Government makes money. China is communist. No free market (with the exception of some retail, strangely...)
Oh and keep in mind the story's on a Canwest page. Canwest is very credible. - thijzer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9"the borg" but in real life.
- blackjack75, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Jacques Bauère will take care of that.
- lintmonkey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9If any race has earned their place in America, it's *any race in America*.
Had it not been for the Chinese, we wouldn't have had the Transcontinental Railroad. They were willing to come here and *die* for wages that no one else would consider working for.
The whole point of America was to be a land of the free. A place of acceptance and liberty. We have never lived up to that standard, but come on -- let's at least strive for it.
I can say anything I want about Chinese "fresh off the boat" thanks to all of the French, British, German, etc. people who fought and died for our rights under the "American" label, which *should* encompass all ethnic backgrounds. You can't exclude any "race" when you talk about Americans. - nobeastsofierce, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10I wonder do they want to give me a job? I'm heading to Canada for the summer. Given that I'm Irish, I'd be the last person they would suspect of being an asian spy......?
- Speed, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Because for some reason, Canadian patent laws have no effect in China.
- mfratt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Now we all know that they're in Toronto trying to copy Rush's music.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8They have a lot of people, what else they are going to do with 1 billion people..
- kevenj, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8The Chinese are also stealing entire car designs from US manufacturers
http://members.forbes.com/forbes/2004/0216/058.html - 2ltkap, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9When I was in University in Canada the school was filled with Chinese Nationals who worked along side us.
As individuals they represented the best minds that China could send over for the superior level of western education. They where also single minded of purpose and utterly focused on their work, They where almost to a group arrogant, disrespectful of Canada and it's people. That these people would forward anything they could lay their hands on back to China is no surprise. I agree with earlier posts that we had an immigration policy which allowed anyone into our country and then never monitored anything they did. I suspect the numbers of spy's are much greater then 1000 and they have used Canada as a staging point for operations in the USA. We are very politically correct in Canada and rather risk annoying someone we seem to do nothing when new Canadians and student essentially do what ever they want on our streets. I point to human smuggling operations and murders in Toronto by a man ordered to be ejected from Canada for prior crimes. - etnu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8China has no desire to compete on fair grounds, and no respect for intellectual property. Companies there are given free reign to copy anything without repercussion. Hell, the largest search engine in China is popular only because of it's "mp3" search.
You think stealing RIM secrets are a big deal? There are many high tech companies employing Chinese citizens (both domestically and in China) that provide software and other tech to the military. Everything from missle defense systems to nuclear weapons have been stolen from under our noses.
It's ok, though, because we get 10 pairs of tube socks for $3. - Asianwaste, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13Canadian papers like to focus on Canada for some strange reason.
That had me going for a while. Hehehe. - opinionist, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7The sad thing is, ... we only hear a fraction of the corporate | industrial | military espionage assailed against the U.S. (and the 'West') by Chinese intelligence services.
A very quick cursory review of the CRS - Congressional Research Service's - reports under 'chinese espionage' provides a wealth of examples across topics with fascinating examples of the tactics used by China.
See CRS Report - RL30143 - "China: Suspected Acquisition of U.S. Nuclear Weapons Secrets"
http://opinionist.com/files/chinanukesecrets.pdf - for example.
or (without trying to spam) | the blog post I wrote on a new released report by the Defense Security Service (DSS) Counterintelligence (CI) Office - entitled "You Don’t Have to be Jack Bauer to Meet a Female Spy!"
http://opinionist.com/2007/01/04/you-dont-have-to-be-jack-bauer-to-meet-female-spys/
The report, "Technology Collection Trends (2006) in the Defense Industry" - gives example after example ... of intelligence services quietly exploring your hotel room during your overseas conference / businesss trips.
Of God's honest James Bond examples of seduction by foreign intelligence officers ... etc etc.
The report (the DSS) breaks down examples of what kinds of U.S. industries (defense related, non-defence related (including Palo Alto tech companies)) are targets of corporate and military espionage.
This shouldn't be surprising BUT when you read actual examples - if does make you shiver.
R
p.s. don't accuse of spam please! ... other fascinating links:
http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/ ... publicly available reports including Mil Intelligence briefings on espionage
http://www.opencrs.com/search.php ... type 'espionage' in search field and be over-welmed! - neuropsychguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"These days, not so much."
The U.S. still tries to build countries back up but they don't always want it because of their hatred of Western society. - MainframeF4, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5First it was Waldo and now this.
- kutza, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9@yareking
Canadian isn't a race moron.
"With their beady little eyes and flapping heads so full of lies". - JPDota, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@nestafett, wrong, that's not communism. That's not even socialism.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9I recently worked at a medical devices manufacturer. The place was crawling with Chinese nationals. They displaced normal Americans in the work place because they were cheap and went to American universities. The question is who subsidized their educations? What kind of communications did they regularly make to their government? What do they do on their frequent trips home? I'll guarantee they were robbing us blind. Oversight of foreign nationals in US is a big problem.
The US really needs to concentrate on educating its own and stop being patsies to the rest of the world. - evilbeatfarmer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7@actionmike
Except you're forgetting that the american monetary system is simply a collective hallucination. If China starts doing that you know those weasly old bastards in DC are just going to pass a law that makes all chinese owned bonds worthless. Like... we'll just declare it an act of aggression and lob some tactical nukes into major civillian targets. Sad but probably true. - monkeyrun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"How many american or candian english speaking people you got in china?"
Quite a lot actually. - Lick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5So you have to force them to go through discrimination before they "earn their place in America"? *****.
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