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Australia hands over man to US courts for pirating software
theage.com.au — Hew Griffiths, from NSW in Australia, is in a Virginia cell, facing up to 10 years in an American prison after being extradited with the co-operation of the Australian Government for criminal copyright infringement offences (i.e. providing "cracked" copy-protected software).
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- marky125, on 10/12/2007, -18/+200As an Australian citizen, I am disgusted by this. I wish our government would stop bowing to the US Government's every whim :(
- Jakerius, on 10/12/2007, -15/+68Crikey
- CptAmerica, on 10/12/2007, -93/+16Get more nukes than us, and then we'll talk
- AcePup, on 10/12/2007, -63/+11Whose to blame the Austrailians for extraditing him to the US or the moron doing the piracy and getting caught doing it?
- maglob, on 10/12/2007, -15/+48@cptamerica
Yes good point, nukes will solve everything *eyes roll* - coolian, on 10/12/2007, -6/+50Looks like there's some competition among some nations to be the US's bitch - first the UK, now Australia.
- fkr3, on 10/12/2007, -51/+54As an Australian citizen, I could care less.
He didn't just pirate software, he cracked it and distributed it. He also distributed media as well.
So we're not talking exactly talking about old mate Jacko downloading a couple of songs. - sonycam, on 10/12/2007, -2/+68"International copyright violations are a great problem. However, there is also the consideration that a country must protect its nationals from being removed from their homeland to a foreign country merely because the commercial interests of that foreign country are claimed to have been affected by the person's behaviour"
This totally sums it up. I wonder if the US would send their citizens to a European country for the same offence? - zybch, on 10/12/2007, -14/+58fkr3. I honestly doubt you're Australian as you used the incorrect and illogical American bastardization of the phrase "I COULDN'T care less"
- rabwah, on 10/12/2007, -4/+45That sucks. Though I am very much against piracy, giving up your own countryman was shameless and a coward act.
- Nico_, on 10/12/2007, -11/+42I'm disgusted by this as well. It pisses me off that the USA wants an Australian citizen to serve time in their country but when it comes time for an American to do his or her time somewhere else then they get all protective of their citizens. Not to mention that they don't even recognize the international courts.
What an ass backwards country. Their full of themselves and all they think about is themselves and their interests. Only thing that country's government is good for is starting wars and killing people. - ybisme, on 10/12/2007, -5/+31The elections are coming....
hopefully rudds face isn't as far up americas ass as howards was. - Rammsteined, on 10/12/2007, -1/+30It doesn't matter what he did, Australia is his country, this is where he should be trailed. If he was physically present in the USA when he committed a crime, that's another story, but he wasn't.
- fkr3, on 10/12/2007, -24/+15zybch - born and bred in Brisbane champ. Left the country nearly 2 years ago to see a bit more of the world.
And where I'm from people do say "I could care less" or "I couldn't care less". It means the same thing. - zybch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24AH, Brisbane. That explains it! :)
But is certainly doesn't mean the same thing. One is the exact opposite of the other.
As for your comment, I agree, He broke the law, he should pay. But unless he actually broke it while in a US state or protectorate he shouldn't be extradited, tried or imprisoned there! - BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -1/+30WTF, why are Australian courts not good enough to deal with their own citizens?
People in free, civilised countries are supposed to be protected from extradition to where the death penalty and torture are implemented. It's the duty of their government and judiciary to implement that protection.
People being extradited from the country they were born in, despite and against the laws of the country they were born in, for crimes alleged to have happened in their own country, that's weird.
What exactly is the point in paying taxes your whole life to a government that bows down and turns you over to whatever mickey mouse foreign legal system feels like it? Idiocy. - huckmank, on 10/12/2007, -11/+8zybch: "fkr3. I honestly doubt you're Australian as you used the incorrect and illogical American bastardization of the phrase 'I COULDN'T care less'"
"I could care less" is a valid alternative. It's delivered with sarcasm, like this: "I could care less; really, I could. " (when in fact you couldn't).
Back to the topic at hand though. I think a better alternative would have been to simply prosecute him in Australian courts. I don't know why one would need to be extradited for breaking international copyright law. - Dundasbro, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17There seems to be a lot of fellow Aussies on this here internets...
/NSW - fkr3, on 10/12/2007, -17/+8This guy is *not* facing the death penalty.
Just because they still have it in some of the more retarded areas of the US doesn't mean that's what he's going to get it.
Can we let the could/couldn't care less thing go yet?
Cause really ... I could give a *****. : ) - Jammer, on 10/12/2007, -15/+1@coolian
Actually, there is no competition: all the countries of the world are already the USA's bitches. It comes with the territory when you're the most powerful country on the planet. - theducks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17fkr3: Look at it another way.. would you rather spend 10 years in a US prison, or an Australian one? Which do you think it more appropriate for an Australian who committed crimes while he was in Australia?
- hdtvdust, on 10/12/2007, -13/+4IT DOESN'T mean the same thing fkr...I couldn't care less is correct. Saying that you COULD care less doesn't mean anything. That means you DO care about it.
- fkr3, on 10/12/2007, -19/+8How does it even matter whether it's US or AU prison?
He's going to get ***** in the ass by people with accents either way. - bobby5892, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19As a US resident.... I too wish Australia would not bow to the US.
!!freedom of information!! - TLAKABM, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1630/usparlimenttc2.jpg
It's the Australian Parliament, if you don't get it. - Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27@captainamerica:
I appreciate your flip, but there is a real problem here: The USA is not lord over the whole world unless the rest of the world decides it is. That the UK and Australian governments are, effectively, doing so is quite truly disturbing to the native populations.
That said, hey, guys? Get rid of Blair and Howard. Replace them with actual politicians. We'll work on taking care of Bush and his ilk over here. Deal? - xBiTReaVeRx, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7The real question is, will this conviction show up on his Australian criminal record? Can he serve his time in the US, come back to Aus and deny that he was convicted of a felony?
Could this work to his benefit, rather than him being convicted and sentenced in Australia? - Sphonix, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15Is there some way we can get either George W extradited to Australia or John Howard extradited to America? Either one would do. Can we Australian's make up some crazy law against being a/the "Commander Guy".
Why is it that all 'leaders' never lead but tell. - doctorfungi, on 10/12/2007, -19/+4Serves the ***** right.
- defdef, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19I am an American, and please dont be disillusioned. We hate this crap just as much...nay, MORE than you do. I dont know that there remains any Americans left that aren't anti-RIAA, unfortunately in this country, the government doesnt run things, the dollar bill does, and the RIAA represents a LOT of dollar bills.
When you attack this kind of activity, make sure to point it at the RIAA and the recording industry. We Americans hate it. - LeeJunFan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Nice, so now everything we do we'll have to wonder if we are breaking a law in some other country less we be extradited there. I can see punishing someone in their own country for breaking laws which are shared between the two countries, such as if someone in Australia commits identity theft or hacking against a US entity or person, but they should be punished by their own country. Not extradited to the country they broke the law in which doesn't exist where they are.
- karmajunkie, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19As a US citizen...
I agree with you. Tell your government to quit being such wimps and stand up to mine. - catalysis, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16Australians should ask for the extradition of Americans who copy and distribute Australian media.
- Zettabyte, on 10/12/2007, -0/+30This person is doing 10 long years for software piracy. Never physically hurt anyone, However what does a rapists, drug dealer, etc. get? A 10 months to 6 years prison sentence. Bloody *****, I'm sick of these corporations ***** people in the arse. The MAXIMUM he should of got was at least a fine or 1 to 3 months in gaol.
- Hawk59, on 10/12/2007, -11/+4I could care less = Insignificant, I could care less than I do.
I couldn't care less = Very insignificant, I have reached the bottom of my ability to care.
Regardless of the semantic differences, and contrary to what one penal colony member (ZYBCH) ;-) from down under said, they are not polar opposites. They do mean essentially the same thing. Friggin pseudo intellectuals! - Osjpr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3It looks like government power and authoritarian control of people is on the rise around the world. National ID cards, surveillance on every street outside your home, DRM in every software and hardware device on the market, imprisonment for pathetic offenses that hurt no one (Microsoft=most pirated company in the world. Also the most successful. Reason? Free advertizing and market penetration). It's time to elect a new generation of politics. Ron Paul and Mike Gravel are the answer.
- Quag7, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7You know, it's not as if GWB and his ilk don't have a fairly large opposition in the US. The point is, it doesn't matter.
Our elections do not matter. Whether you're talking about some kind of campaign finance reform or keeping insecure voting machines out of the process, the chances of doing the right thing are clearly small.
Somehow this president was re-elected in 2004 to a stunned opposition, who could not believe that by that date anyone could vote for him. And yet, due to our legendarily hapless and incompetent opposition (at least in part), he was re-elected.
What is it with governments around the world lining up to support this jerk? Yeah, the US government is evil; I think everyone gets that - but what is with the *degree* of sucking up to the US? What is it the US is holding over their heads? As much flack as we get here for not keeping our government within reasonable limits, you can see the problem now - if our government is so strong that it can make sovereign nations bend to their will the way Australia - inexplicably - did in this case, what hope is there for any kind of grassroots movement here to have any effect? Either the last two elections were won with outright fraud - as some allege, or the American public cannot be counted on to mind their own house. The *least* other countries can do is force this issue of sovereignty around election time and make it a principal issue among their candidates.
I think everyone understands what this is - an illegitimate and diseased entanglement between our governments and trans-national corporations, who increasingly hold inappropriate amounts of sway in the realm of politics and civil society at large. I don't think you need to even be on the Left to make that point. The transnational corporation, and its effect on policy by way of campaign donations and other palm greasing, must absolutely be castrated and pushed into its proper place, and there is no way this is going to happen without an international effort and some kind of solidarity among the citizens of the world which crosses and transcends national borders, parochial concerns, and patriotic excesses.
The question is, how do you make Americans who don't understand what is going on already, see this and care about it? The sickness in USA is the same as it has always been - the actions of the US government do not, by and large, affect them personally. This is how the US government has succeeded in its present course, and because people in the US have grown up completely insulated from the consequences of the actions of their government, clearly, a lot of people have lost the ability to think conceptually, or abstractly, to understand that something can be evil even if it doesn't affect them personally, and that in the end, this kind of statism cannot be controlled and will come back to bite those who enabled it through foolish votes and civic incompetence.
This is how the rise of authoritarianism in America has gone - take the war to other soils, remove the prison camps to foreign soil where Americans don't have to look at them, drop the bombs far from home. But I would point out by way of constructive dialog - if thousands of miles across an ocean, Australia couldn't somehow hold on to one of its own citizens, consider how hard actual regime change here must be.
This is a decadent empire, and I'm pissed that people are doing these things in my name. It is of little comfort, I know, to express, as a US citizen, how appalled by this I am. It's actually causing me a stange bit of dissonance, sympathizing here, as an American, with Australians, against the United States. But I do. This government does not represent me. But as a citizen, the problem falls squarely into my lap, as it does that of every other US citizen. If anyone has constructive ideas of a strategy for addressing these issues, would love to hear it, because frankly, I don't know what to do.
I think this kind of pattern needs to be taken for granted now. It needs to be expected. Things like this should shock no one.
Defend yourselves the best that you can, at your polls, and through education. It's going to get worse before it gets better, because too many of us - meaning citizens of all of the "free" western nations - have investments (401Ks, etc.) tied up in multinational corporations to do the right thing. Stock ownership will turn out to have been one of the most powerful social narcotics ever unleashed upon the world. So many of us are already compromised.
The climate, national sovereignty, our oceans, pluralism, safety, civil liberties, and civil rights are all imperiled by the direction things have gone. - BGFeltenink, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1210 years in prison for something like this??? Is he a danger to society? If not then why the ***** do we need to put him in prison?
Oh yeah, I forgot that around 50% of our imprisoned population is there for political crimes. Makes me sick, there used to be a time where jail/prison was reserved for people that couldn't be left in the general population because of a crime that harms people.
This is just ***** and that's not even getting to the part where a man committed a "crime" in Australia and yet might have to serve a decade of the only life he has in a ***** US prison.
/Nope, not resentful of similar sentences against recreational drug users AT ALL - andrewcod, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@fkr3
Of course there's a difference between being trialed in the two countries. In Australia, the penalty is 3 years. In the US, it's ten years. Why send someone to a country they've never even been to before to be trialed for a crime he commited in Australia on Australian servers? And no matter where he's trialed, he'll serve out his sentence in an Australian prison anyway because of the laws. - DatuPuti, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2ditto. for ASEAN countries should stop bowing to the west.
- rabidstrikes, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7***** americans should stop electing republican ***** to office.
- toonworld, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12(I know I'm going to be dugg down for this, but I couldn't resist!!)
It's ironic how Australia used to be a British penal colony and now they are "exporting" prisoners to the US!
Ok but seriously, if Canada were to do that I would be outraged too!
//Ozzie's rock!!! - estvir, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1fkr3, you're in Brisbane ? Me too. :o
Do you have MSN/AIM by any chance ? - malliemcg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The thing that ***** me the most with this case is that he - as an Australian should have been tried and convicted by Australian law, not by some nation several thousand kilometers away that he has no obligation to support their laws, beliefs nor value system. The Australian government caved leaving me wondering what's next - if I express disgust at something I find reprehensible in the US, I might piss off some one with enough clout to get me "exported" to face punishment for breaking laws I have no obligation in upholding.
This is why I'll never visit the US the voluntarily. - usucapiao, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Thats pure nonsense...
Lock a person in a ***** jail for 10 years because of piracy?
The law can be stupid some times and who cares about it too...
Life has no value these days... - Trynemjoel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Well John Howard, the Prime Minister of Australia has shown very clearly what his relationship with the Bush administration and their politics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4sNQegNssI - Like this episode where he says that Al Qaida hopes for a democrat win in 2008. - Fordi, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@Trynemjoel:
Actually, I wouldn't be suprised if Al Queida wants a democrat in Washington - but not likely for the reasons that Howard is in the mood to hear.
It's not that a democrat would let another attack happen, it's that a democrat might reform American Foreign Policy to the point where Al Queida wouldn't see its own actions as necessary.
We have this vision that anyone who attacks us is evil. That's not true. Anyone who does anything has a good reason to do it (though, not always moral standing). Al Queida sees their attacks as necessary mostly because of our interference in their affairs.
Al Queida would be wrong, of course; we're not in a position to just stop meddling. We may pull our troops out, but we'll still be playing politics with them, trying to master their governments in an effort to ensure that our interests are kept. It's really very dirty pool, as far as I'm concerned, but the other option is to let our ecomony collapse due to oil shortages.
We need to get off the foreign oil dependence, and that requires using the technology we already have (for example, direct ethanol fuel cells, thermal conversion, and thorium-based nuclear power) to replace it. We also have to help the middle east out with some innovative solutions to existing problems (wave powered desalination comes to mind as a help for their water shortage.)
The republicans won't do this, of course. They're good friends with the OPEC and the Saudi royalty. They'd essentially be smacking their friends in the face if they were to build an infrastructure that doesn't need their product.
- CaptSolo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+27"I am an Australian expat, resident for some years in New Zealand, and have broken no laws of this land.
But New Zealand has an extradition treaty with China.
I've done some work - totally within New Zealand - on anonymous publishing and encryption software, and shared it freely with the world. What I've done is totally legal here, but it's likely I've infringed on numerous sections of the Chinese criminal code.
So theoretically, the Chinese Govt could file a request to the New Zealand government for my extradition. The only thing that stops them is that my part in developing this software has been pretty small, and likely hasn't presented a huge obstacle to domestic Chinese law enforcement. I'm pretty small fry. But if any of my code, for instance, gave Falun Gong or pro-democracy protestors a huge advantage in concealing their activities from the Chinese authorities, I could be looking at a long holiday at the Beijing Hilton :( "
Found this similarity in a /. comment on this issue. - axeland, on 10/12/2007, -2/+27would US do the same thing if it were in aussies place? I don't think so.
- PATSCRU, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10look at the story of luis posada carrilles, an anti-castro cuban extremist who blew up an airplane with 70 people in venezuela and who is now seeking asylum. Venezula wants to extradite, and we don't even send a known terrorists back to them for a trial.
- Rammsteined, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Wouldn't? They have not, just think of David Hicks.
- jav1231, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@PATSCRU:
Hmmm America not cooperating with Venezuela...wonder why.... - catbeller, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yeah, why, since Venezuela never did a damned thing to us?
- PATSCRU, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10look at the story of luis posada carrilles, an anti-castro cuban extremist who blew up an airplane with 70 people in venezuela and who is now seeking asylum. Venezula wants to extradite, and we don't even send a known terrorists back to them for a trial.
- danjal, on 10/12/2007, -18/+4my god, when you guys grow up and start having jobs, move out of home, then, only then will you realise that things in life arn't free!
- Jammer, on 10/12/2007, -13/+0It's hard for them, though: Getting three squares a day and your laundry washed .. able to talk big talk from behind the safety of a keyboard in Mom's basement ... why leave?
- treelovinhippie, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11And we can thank the ***** Free Trade Agreement for this *****-fest! ... ever since it came in, the US can come in and ***** with any of us Aussies over anything they want.
- strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10Like what? Examples please? This guy headed a major software piracy group. It's not like he was just making copies of the latest Britney Spears CD for his friends.
- BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15"""Like what? Examples please? This guy headed a major software piracy group. It's not like he was just making copies of the latest Britney Spears CD for his friends."""
If he did everything he's accused of, that doesn't change a damned thing.
Australian person breaks Australian law in Australia. Obviously a good reason to sanction what may be an illegal extradition so he can be tried in some random foreign country, by a completely DIFFERENT country's laws then.
How would you feel about getting extradited for, say, possession of cannabis or speeding to some random human rights violating country despite your government's duty to refuse, with the possibility of jail time there? - Jammer, on 10/12/2007, -9/+1Not anything ... only when you break our laws and we want to nail your ass to a wall. If you've done nothing wrong then you have nothing to worry about.
- BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11"""Not anything ... only when you break our laws and we want to nail your ass to a wall. If you've done nothing wrong then you have nothing to worry about."""
If we break your laws it's got ***** all to do with you unless it's in your country, or concerns some act of violence against your citizens. - Wargalas, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4You know, the Australian government could have said "no". The fact that the US government asked for and RECEIVED permission for it is irrelevant.
- BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8"""You know, the Australian government could have said "no"."""
Absolutely agreed. The responsibility to protect its people and the rule of law ultimately rests on the government of Australia.
Of course, the supreme arrogance of the world government's double standards on extradition, and the crushing diplomatic pressure wielded on the smallest issues - these things do nothing but create problems. - noisymime, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Homer: Lisa, if I didn't have this gun, the king of England could walk right in here and start pushing you around.
[Homer starts pushing Lisa around]
Homer: D'you want that? Huh? Do ya?
Lisa: No...
Now convert for relevance to article...
Barry: Shazza, if I didn't have this gun, the king of America could walk right in here and start pushing you around.
[Barry starts pushing Shazza around]
Barry: D'you want that? Huh? Do ya?
Shazza: Piss off Barry.
Maybe guns aren't a bad thing after all.
- southfield, on 10/12/2007, -22/+3The more stories I read like this the more and more I hate Australia. I remember reading a story about a woman who had a pound of marijuana in her surfboard case and was thrown in jail for LIFE. Absolutely.Ridiculous.
- tomz17, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15The woman you are thinking of was FROM australia...
- zybch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18She was from aust and caught in a country (Bali) where the severe penalty for possession is known everywhere! If the bitch didn't want to spend her life behind bars in a stinking Bali prison then she shouldn't have attempted to smuggle the dope into their country!
Shes damn lucky she didn't get the death penalty!! - Apple_fanboy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11She was in Indonesia dumbass. Its a completly seporate soverign nation.
- skywake, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11she smuggled the stuff into Indonesia and had a trial under their laws
it didn't have much to do with Australia at all excluding the fact that she was Australian
admittedly, the way the media carried on you might have thought she was a saint - tomz17, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@zybch
Really? I didn't know about Bali's drug laws... I read a little bit about her trial, and as a westerner (US citizen) I was appalled. It was clearly just a show trial. She was pretty much presumed guilty with no chance of possibly defending herself. I know that I am personally NEVER traveling to Indonesia (or any similar country) without full US diplomatic immunity. - fkr3, on 10/12/2007, -15/+2She has a name you know ...
Schapelle Corby
After the amount of effort the media made to teach everyone that stupid whore's name, the least you could do is remember it. - grumpyrain, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@tomz,
You may want to reconsider travelling almost anywhere in South East Asia if you intend on bringing any substances with you. Don't even take chewing gum to Singapore.
Most Aussies now believe she is guilty, and certain siblings being convicted on drugs charges back in Australia did not really help her standing in the court of public opinion. But there were indeed a lot of inconsistencies with the investigation.
- Dhalgren, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3What the hell is he doing to that dog?
- mrmatchgame, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8WFT, If you commits a crime in the Australia, you in trouble under Australia law not U.S. This needs to stop now. Whats next, A person commits a crime in the U.S. and is sent to another country to be tortured under the other countries laws?
Oh Wait... - SteelChicken, on 10/12/2007, -14/+5As an American, if an American citizen breaks Australian laws (severe ones like this guy) I have no problem with that citizen being extradited.
- tomz17, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15Didn't think this through, did you?
So if there was a "severe" law in Australia against jaywalking, you would be ok with extradition? How about wearing purple? eating pork?
Who gets to define what a severe law is?
See the problem?
I don't agree with our government, but we do have a right to ask for extradition. However, IMHO, Australia should have stood up for its citizen in this instance. If I was an Australian citizen I would be pissed as hell. - BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19That's retarded, you can't be extradited to other countries just because something you do in your own country is against their laws!.
Shall we start extraditing all the dope smokers wandering around Amsterdam to Indonesia?
Maybe we should extradite all the women wearing miniskirts to Iran? Hey, they broke the laws of another country - death penalty is only fitting.
Pretty soon, all nations swap populations and everyone on the planet goes to jail. w00t.
Silly misunderstanding of what extradition is for. Libraries and Google are your friends. - Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15@SteelChicken:
The US laws on copyright violation isn't severe until you get into the territory of bootlegging (ie: selling infringed goods). Until then it's a civil matter, and extradition should NOT be permitted. Unless this guy was selling Windows XP ISO downloads to US citizens, bootlegging doesn't apply. Since this is DoD, and I'm certain that DoD has never sold a single release, the Aussie gov't should have told the US to shove it up their collective asses.
Child posters: the people who get to decide what 'Severe' is is your own government when deciding whether to extradite. Of course, their decision may get skewed when a more influential government comes in an twists their arm, as seems to be this case.
Unfortunately, it's international copyright law that allows for this; Australia joined in that bandwagon, and they're starting to get the short end of it for it.
- tomz17, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15Didn't think this through, did you?
- dingleberry, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7While I agree this is pretty messed up, this guy was the LEADER of DoD. That's a little different than just casually pirating warez. If they extradited some casual pirates then I would be concerned. This guy knew what he was doing was in the big leagues.
- identifiedlogo, on 10/12/2007, -11/+1this is insane. lets boycott the company who strted thec lawsuit. people are tired of paying a lotof money for a useless produc
- ChoadNamath, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6I'm trying to figure out what's broken: your keyboard, your fingers, or your brain.
- zate, on 10/12/2007, -15/+4Thats how extradition works. As the old saying goes "if you cant to do the time, don't do the crime". I have little sympathy for him.
- tomz17, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Do you know the laws in Australia? How about Cambodia? China? Germany? Should you be expected to know every law in ever country on the planet? Should your country stand up for you when one of the above countries asks for extradition for breaking one of their laws? Especially if you haven't even stepped foot in that country.
- zate, on 10/12/2007, -12/+1@ tomz17
First off, I'm an Aussie, who extradited himself to the US for tha we-mons!
Secondly, are you honestly and really trying to tell me that you DON'T think cracking and distributing software is illegal in most countries?
If your stupid enough to do something you ***** KNOW is illegal, and least have the intelligence to do it in a country where its #1 not illegal and #2 doesnt have an extradition treaty to a country where you already KNOW its illegal.
Especially if your the LEADER of an international software piracy organization. Jesus how stupid can people be ?
I stand by my statement, no sympathy for the moron. - Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9@Zate:
I have a problem with that old chestnut. The problem is that the corollary is, "If you can do the time, or avoid it entirely, do the crime."
Most of the Warez groups out there can handle the latter portion of the corollary with quite a bit of ease. This guy just got unlucky.
Not to mention that simple piracy without sale isn't a 'crime' in any country, per se. It's a civil offense. I don't see why extradition was even tabled here; the companies interested could have just sued him in Australian courts.
Also, why on EARTH did you come to the states for OUR ugly broads? ^_^ - IADTatami, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Don't do the crime if you can't do the time" is an awesome thing to say to someone as you're feeding them into a woodchipper, whether you're doing it because they littered, or because they disseminated revolutionary tracts.
- ybisme, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I got a saying for you,
STFU.
- Cyraq, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5FREE HEW GRIFFITHS!
- SteelChicken, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2@ tomz17:
thats whats courts are for, idiot. thats why they have extradition hearings, so the home country of the accused has a say and can review the evidence/crime, etc.- tomz17, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13exactly... and in this case Australia clearly sold one of its citizens out. This guy broke US AND Australian law, but never even set foot in the US. He should have the right to stand trial in his native country in front of a jury of HIS peers first. It is our right to ask for extradition, and it is Australia's right to tell us to go screw ourselves. If the situation were reversed and Australia wanted to extradite one of our own citizens under the same circumstances the US would have undoubtedly given them the finger.
As a US citizen I can sleep soundly at night knowing that my country will have my back when ***** hits the fan. If I were an Australian right now I would be pissed as hell... not at the US, but at my own government. - dacheetah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I am... and I am...
And I will continue to take action in the form of not voting for John Howard or his party, ever...
Even when his only opponents are no better than barely trained monkeys with mental disorders I still prefer to vote for them than Howard...
- tomz17, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13exactly... and in this case Australia clearly sold one of its citizens out. This guy broke US AND Australian law, but never even set foot in the US. He should have the right to stand trial in his native country in front of a jury of HIS peers first. It is our right to ask for extradition, and it is Australia's right to tell us to go screw ourselves. If the situation were reversed and Australia wanted to extradite one of our own citizens under the same circumstances the US would have undoubtedly given them the finger.
- zapa, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14australia lost my respect
- bnolsen, on 10/12/2007, -15/+5Come on guys, this is legitimate thievery.
Not just breaking some stupid hardware access code, but actually punching and selling someone else's property.
Activities like this could easily break a small starting company and put people out of jobs.
Now I really do believe that this should be prosecuted in Australia as a theft.
I can clearly understand how people would see the extradition part as an outrage, my gut reaction is to agree with them.- Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Um. DoD never sold a release. Check facts, then return.
- BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6He should be tried in Australian courts, and if he's guilty he should have the book thrown at him.
An Aussie who breaks Aussie law in Oz. What does US law have to do with him? - acomj, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Cracked "copyrighted" works (games especially) are downloaded and sold as physical pirated media. Likely lots of Drink OD stuff did make it to the duplicators.
- dacheetah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Copyright Infringement is NOT THEFT!
Every single statistic on the cost of piracy comes from the assumption that every single item that was pirated would have otherwise been bought. And as someone who has seen his fair share of pirated software, as well as bought a reasonable number of titles, I can guarantee that most cases of software piracy did NOT cause a lost sale. Most people will not buy caviar, because it costs too much, and they can live without it, yet most people I know (short vegetarians and the like) are certainly willing to try it if they are offered it for free. It's basically the same thing. They are willing to use something for free, but if they couldn't get it free, they sure as hell wouldn't pay for it.
Further, this is totally out of the US jurisdiction, the extradition is stupid. - Fordi, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@acornj:
"Cracked "copyrighted" works (games especially) are downloaded and sold as physical pirated media. Likely lots of Drink OD stuff did make it to the duplicators."
But not sold by DoD, nor did any money come to him.
- bud38, on 10/12/2007, -21/+3Whose to blame the Australians for extraditing him to the US or the moron doing the piracy and getting caught doing it?
governments cooperate to fight crime.. Software piracy is a crime... HE got caught now he's in jail... tough *****.
I guess that was his fault... The Australian government recognized him as a thief and took appropriate measures....- Cyraq, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16Go ***** yourself.
- Jammer, on 10/12/2007, -14/+3@Cyraq
Again with the tough talk ... why don't you get off the family computer and let one of your siblings have a turn? - Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15@Jammer:
The guy didn't commit a US crime. Bootlegging is a US crime, but that's not what DoD does; they're primarily interested in releasing warez for free, which places them smack dab in the 'simple piracy' area.
Even violations of the DMCA are civil offenses. I don't know that civil offenses warrant extradition in most cases, but there's a treaty in places that allows for it in copyright infringement cases.
That said, I don't see why they couldn't have handled this in Australian courts - other than the fact that our copyright punishment track record is a lot tougher than Australia's; the Aussies actually have somewhat sensible precedents. I mean the BSA can't have sensible precedents getting in the way of their pound of flesh, now can they?
- Jammer, on 10/12/2007, -22/+4Good for the Aussies to give up that pirate scumbag for prosecution. I hope he rots in jail for the full 10 years.
- Cyraq, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16Jammer, why don't you go and suck off DRM while the RIAA gives you deep penetration from the behind, and leave us alone?
- Jammer, on 10/12/2007, -20/+5Awww ... now if your Mom knew you were posting messages like that, she we be very disappointed. It amazes me the tough-talk that boys like you post from the safety of their Mom's basement.
Shouldn't you be in school? - Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14That's fine. You're about to be extradited for masturbation in violation of Jordan law. Pack up your things and prepare for the little guillotine.
No, seriously. Calling him a scumbag? It's not like he was eating babies, you douche. He was cracking software in violation of a US law that shouldn't even be on the books (the DMCA) and releasing software in violation of copyright law. I'm sure many people went homeless as a result of his actions, but no one died. That's the reason that both of these offenses are civil matters, not criminal.
What? They didn't even go homeless? Not a soul? Well ain't that some *****. I guess the BSA is just out to get a little revenge. After all, DoD's been thumbing their nose as 'em for the last fifteen years.
Anyway, ***** you for thinking you know what's best for the Australian government. These are people who value their freedom considerably more than we (the US) do. They may just get a little annoyed with how their government just cowed to US interests. - Jammer, on 10/12/2007, -12/+0@Fordi
"***** me?" Thanks for the offer ... but I don't do minatures.
Fordi, when you grow up a little come back then we'll talk. Until then: let the adults continue their conversation, OK? - Rammsteined, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Consider yourself blocked "Jammer".
- Fordi, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@Jammer:
Aww, aren't you cute.
Trying to talk down to me won't override the valid points I've made. That I like to use a little colorful language to drive my point home has no bearing on the logic I've used.
And for the record, I'm 27, and my ***** is 9" long. You'll find in most states that the former constitutes 'grown up', and that when I do "***** you" it'll hurt like a bitch.
I'll remember to wrap my rod in sandpaper for your pleasure.
- jmpeagle, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3he should be dragged into the street and executed by the head of the RIAA...you know how many people's jobs are lost because the RIAA can't afford to hold on to them because of this guy. This guy has probably caused people to starve. He should be tortured at Gitmo like the common terrorist he is and then swiftly executed without trial.
- sherrife, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1For the benefit of those burying this guy/girl...
/sarcasm - dacheetah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If it wasn't for people like this the RIAA would have gone broke a long time ago. Most of their funding comes from the anti-piracy movement. He's probably created more jobs and improved the economy.
- sherrife, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1For the benefit of those burying this guy/girl...
- BrokenVisage, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14The Aussies are notorious for this sort of crap. It's deeper then you think too, some of the most secure US bases are located in Australia, and from the stories I've read from people who casually ventured near them they don't take ***** from anybody. I understand this guy probably deserved to face his punishment, but the way this government is imposing its will around the globe makes me sick and worrisome. World police, or global tyrants in disguise?
- p51d007, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5As a citizen of the USA, you may find this hard to believe, but I don't like this one one little bit. What is to prevent some other country from doing the same thing, convicting a citizen of the USA, and then asking the courts to hand him/her over to their country for punishment?
If that were to happen, and the USA said no, it would be a double standard. I think citizens of their own country, even if they break the law of another country, without even stepping foot in that country, shouldn't be extradited. Perhaps if the law they break, has a similar law in their own country, some sort of punishment can be sorted out and let them stay in their own country, but this swapping one citizen to another country really bothers me- jmpeagle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12there is a double standard...the U.S. doesn't extradite to other countries.
- Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I believe it, and I'm right there with you.
In fact, I can't find anyone IRL here who thinks this is a good idea (I'm at a cafe right now on my laptop). Go city of brotherly love, I say. At least the popular kids have a bit of sense. - BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's cool that you now acknowledge this possibility, and you're right, BUT where have you been?
That ship sailed a long time ago - that's not how it might be, that's how it is - has been for ages.
PS: If you participate in some violent criminal act against a country or its people, you'll quite possibly be extradited (if it fulfills extradition criteria) whether you've been there or not, obviously - but this kind of thing, well as you say it's just ridiculous.
- alphaeno, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2Good relations with the richest country ever or let some pirates live free...tough choice for a government.
- BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Let's make one thing clear, the way the US interfaces with other countries as regards extradition is anything but "good relations". It needs to stop for everyone's benefit.
- alphaeno, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1No it doesnt
- Albion01, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12So America is making world law and imprisoning foreign citizens? What's next, America arresting and extraditing citizens of Holland for smoking marijuana? I think it's time Americans start thinking about taking back America!
- malliemcg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1PLEASE DO! (Seriously)
- ripstuntz, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2if i were in jail for pirating id be telling steve jobs and bill gates to suck a fat ass chode
- mongrel, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Hey I have some DoD stuff - zonkers I'm an accomplice! [deleted deleted deleted]
- Barbarino, on 10/12/2007, -12/+5don't steal
problem solved... - sicclife, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Crime punishment here is so messed up
- sicclife, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6do Australians not realize that killing gets less time in USA.
- D0ntThinkS0, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsJyfN0ICU
- jmpeagle, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I wonder what actor in college dreams of doing crap like that?
- jmpeagle, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
- dgh1973, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I've often wondered how they calculate lost revenue for things like this. I mean, most people obtaining free copies of software are probably doing so because they cannot afford the original, not a situation of "well, I'll see if I can get a pirated copy and if not I'll buy it." If they could not get it for free they probably would not have it at all.
Applying the "we would have made x amount of money if each one of these was paid for" logic really doesn't apply IMHO. So is this really lost revenue or gained advertising/popularity/market share?- Skurt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6My thoughts exactly... I understand what he did was wrong, he got caught, but he wasn't making any money off this, he did it for the glory.
the paragraph;
But Drink or Die's activities did cost American companies money — an estimated $US50 million ($A60 million), if legal sales were substituted for illegal downloads undertaken through Drink or Die. It also raised the ire of US authorities.
says it all, "if LEGAL SALES were substituted for illegal downloads..."
I'd throw my own wild ass-ed statistics, cut that number by 75% easy. A lot of that software would not have been bought. If you can get 'x' software free that you would not have normally ever paid for, then how can you factor this amount into your estimate. If I see a software package that looks interesting, I may obtain it by 'shady means' however, it the software is good, I will have a better chance of buying it
if it does what I need or what it says. I have been screwed out of lots of my own $$ when software doesn't do as advertised and the company that creates it says, "Too bad, no take backs!" On the other hand, software that is good, gets my $$ and I recommend it to my company and
other people as well.
So $50 mil... not even close.
- Skurt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6My thoughts exactly... I understand what he did was wrong, he got caught, but he wasn't making any money off this, he did it for the glory.
- kbot777, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16"On top of a possible 10-year jail term, Griffiths could be fined $US500,000.
(By way of comparison, the average sentence for rape in Victoria is six years and 10 months.)"
Our priorities are disgusting. - NeoRicen, on 10/12/2007, -11/+3You people make me sick, I'm all for relaxing copyright etc. so people can legally do things like backup their property and play media on multiple devices however this guy has been cracking and distributing software illegally, there's nothing excusable about what he's done.
What this guy did should not be legal by anyone's standard. Lower copyright restrictions, give people the rights they deserve but what this guy has done is not a right anyone should have.
He cost US companies millions of dollars, that's not excusable. Removing copyright protection to back up a disk, removing it to play your iTunes music on another MP3 player etc. ARE excusable actions because they're fair and don't cost anyone any money or violate their intellectual property however as I said this guy is doing something completely illegal.
Software costs money to make, peoples jobs and lives depend on it, completely ripping them off is downright inexcusable and this guy deserves punishment.- Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6What the guy was doing wasn't illegal in Australia. Inexcusable is incorrect, of course. I'll excuse him; I got a good portion of my early software from DoD. I'll be one of the ones yelling 'Free Griffiths!' outside a courthouse.
That said, I'm an all open source house nowadays. Just in case you wanted to report me. The cops can come, but they'll only find linux distributions and legal Windows and Macs filled with OSS apps.
- Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6What the guy was doing wasn't illegal in Australia. Inexcusable is incorrect, of course. I'll excuse him; I got a good portion of my early software from DoD. I'll be one of the ones yelling 'Free Griffiths!' outside a courthouse.
- scabbers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10It's true that if you commit a violent crime you're going to do a lot less time than if you cost some corporation (or the government) money.
- Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Yeah, isn't that retarded?
6 years in Australia for rape, but, apparently, 10 years if you piss off a US corporation enough.
- Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Yeah, isn't that retarded?
- ChoadNamath, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5AMERICA, ***** YEAH!! Here to save the ***** day, yeah!
- mstoneburner, on 10/12/2007, -13/+2Boo hoo, he sold other people's work for his own gain, boo hoo.
- scabbers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12He didn't sell anything.
- Barbarino, on 10/12/2007, -11/+2don't steal
problem solved - mykos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I'm not a lawyer, but his copyright violations all happened while he was on Australian soil, I say let them deal with him according to their laws. If he did this while he was in the U.S., I suppose the extradition is warranted. Personally, though, I'm against jail time for copyright violators. Fines, garnishment, whatever, but not prison.
By the way, the picture is a bit biased; showing a picture of him with a puppy is a little over-the-top, don't you think?- scabbers, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Depends on how disturbing you find someone with no pants holding a wet dog.
- chicoer2001, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Hypocrisy on the US part. They would never send one of their own to anther country for a similar crime. Total BS
- Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The best thing is this:
"But Drink or Die's activities did cost American companies money — an estimated $US50 million ($A60 million), if legal sales were substituted for illegal downloads undertaken through Drink or Die"
The RIAA tries this argument all the time. They don't get that, without the piracy, most of these people would either do without or write their own - and in fact, do. There's no chance in hell that, without piracy, they'd see their profits raise by that estimated $50M. To say so is retarded.
- Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The best thing is this:
- lochness, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11I love how my government, led by little Jack-Boot-Johnny, is happy, if not EAGER to spend my tax dollars on defending and negotiating to bring home convicted DRUG SMUGGLERS from Indonesia, not to mention paying for their lawyers to get them off death row, so they can come back to a nice comfy Australian jail....
Yet they are quite happy to get down on their knees and suck George Bush's hairy ***** and simply hand over to the sharing-caring USA, this guy who harmed no-one, broke no Australian law, never set foot in the all mighty USA and made no money from the exercise and was "stupid" at best, nothing more. - blatantninja, on 10/12/2007, -8/+0He probably should have served his time in Australia, but as long as he is serving time, that is what is important.
- clyde2801, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Wow, I'm surprised...that his name isn't Bruce...
- Phantizen, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1First Pine Gap and now this.
- clyde2801, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Of course, he'll now be defended by the crack Austrailian law firm of Bruce, Bruce & Bruce...
- 5555, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3So many Americans on here saying "its not us! we don't like it either!"...
Then how about you DO something about it instead of sound like victims saying "we hate it just as much as you that our government [ INTERFERES_WITH/KILLS_INNOCENT_CIVILIANS_IN/DESTROYS ] your country." Quit shrugging your shoulders and stand up to them. I'm not talking about doing anything stupid, but make your voice heard. You people always talk about your rights that protect you if your gov't gets out of control.. well now they ARE out of control and you all just sit there and either brag about how free you are or cry about how much freedom you're losing!
Do it for your own good. If your government keeps that ***** up, one day they're going to piss off the wrong country, like China or Russia. Then again, they'd never mess with a state that they can't bully. - sulaco, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1I don't understand why everybody is so pissed at the US over this. You don't get anything in life if you don't at least ask for it. The US did and Australia caved. The anger should be towards the Australian government for allowing this to happen to one of their citizens.
After they were done telling the US to go to hell, they should have put this guy on trial for the same thing. Everybody is making him out to be some kind of saint. He knew exactly what he was doing. He also knew it was illegal in almost every civilized country in the world. - pixelfox, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4He broke the law. But being handed over to another country for doing so? That seems unnecessary.
- rocor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The USA, UK and Australia all allow prison inmates families and friends to visit them in jail.
When these extradition laws were enacted, provision should have been made to allow for practical application of this by allowing for those convicted, to serve their sentences in their home countries jails. - bcmiller, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Pirates are people who board ships and kill the crew. This guy just shared software. Australia has weakened it's sovereignty with this move and so has the US since the real power behind this move were the corporations.
How many of my tax dollars were wasted by the US in a 3 year extradition of a guy who is not a violent criminal? The dollar amount of the crime is based on the down-loaders buying the software.. that wouldn't happen.
This is why people should support free software (not just open source) www.fsf.org- uslacker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0bcmiller - You missed a word. "This guy just shared software" - illegally. And more than that - he cracked copy protection and made the software available for download. Call it what you will. It is illegal. If he gets punished - so be it.
- uslacker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0bcmiller - You missed a word. "This guy just shared software" - illegally. And more than that - he cracked copy protection and made the software available for download. Call it what you will. It is illegal. If he gets punished - so be it.
- Churnd, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1He committed a crime against an American. How is this any different than if he had murdered an American? It' simple... you use American software, you follow the American laws that go with it. Don't understand? Don't use the software.
- aggies11, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The idea of sovereign nations is one of the past. Even the USA itself is no longer it's own entity. The multi-national corporations are the world's greatest powers, and they choose what is right or wrong, and who will be punished. Remember this isn't "America" who is doing this, but rather a result of the organizations of corporations who pressure both governments into bending to their will.
Money talks, it makes the world go around, and it can now put in you jail from the other side of the world.
Awesome :(
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