What is Digg?217 Comments
- Saintlink, on 10/12/2007, -10/+249Say what you want about this man's previous life history, but God bless him for taking the high ground on this. Talk about courage and doing the right thing. I'm normally a "law and order" type of guy, but I hope they give him a second chance after this. Must read for sure.
- fletchowns, on 10/12/2007, -8/+159I hope he doesn't spend the rest of his life in jail. Sure stealing is bad, but this guy isn't so horrible he needs to be removed from society.
- fletchowns, on 10/12/2007, -5/+129@ZenKai - The police didn't obtain the evidence illegally, they got it in the mail. It wouldn't be admissible in court if THEY had broken into the guys safe and obtained it.
- ZMorek, on 10/12/2007, -2/+95It seems to me that this would be classified as "anonymous tip" rather than "illegally obtained evidence"
- CupBeEmpty, on 10/12/2007, -2/+81@all of you
GOOD LORD... did none of you pay attention in high school civics class? This evidence is COMPLETELY admissible in court. The Bill of Rights only protects you from actions by the government. This is why your employer can turn over any ecidence they want on you, for example. If FedEx finds that you are shipping cocaine across state lines they can turn it over to the police who can bust you. The police cannot break in and steal evidence but they can use evidence obtained by private citizens no matter how it was obtained because the government did not commit the unlawful search and seizure.
If you want some references:
http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/405/405lect04.htm (look for the "Private Individual Search Exception")
http://www.kscoplaw.com/outlines/ssoutline.htm (look for the "Is it Governmental Conduct?" section)
The applicable case law is:
Burdeau v. McDowell, 256 U.S. 465 (1921); State v. Miesbauer, 232 Kan. 291, 293, 654 P.2d 934 (1982).
United States v. Jacobsen, 466 U.S.109, 113, 80 L. Ed. 2d 1003, 103 5. Ct. 3319 (1984)
However, if a private person's involvement in the case is nearly equal to that of the government (such as hiring someone to steal evidence or a police consultant stealing evidence) then it is different. This clearly does not apply in this case.
State v. Bohannon, 3 Kan. App.2d 448, 452, 596 P.2d 190, 194 (1979)
and more specifically to hiring of people to steal evidence vs. 'good samaritans' turning over evidence
United States v. Lovell, 876 F.2d 787, (10th Cir. 1989); State v. Smith, 243 Kan. 715, 724, 763 P.2d 632 (1988)
That was remembering high school about 1 minute of Googling... you don't need to be a lawyer to figure it out. - ZenKai, on 10/12/2007, -26/+104My question is: Isn't that evidence obtained illegally (i.e. no search warrant)? I'm no law professor, but it seems that if police enter illegally to obtain evidence it's rendered non-admissible, why is it not if someone else steals it? Don't get me wrong, it's great that the bastard got caught (both, really), but isn't this tantamount to vigilantism? What keeps police from employing cat burglars?
- fletchowns, on 10/12/2007, -4/+61Lyph4, that's never been legal...
- TheThirdWheel, on 10/12/2007, -14/+71Very interesting story but I'm not going for the whole "hero" thing.
``There is honor among thieves,'' said Dana Overstreet, who is prosecuting Aitken. ``In my case, Hahn is a hero.''
If he knew for sure he would get arrested for sending the memory stick to the police then he would be a hero of sorts. The fact is he wrapped the stick up and sent it anonymously, who knows if he would have turned in the stick if it guaranteed his arrest. Kudos for the burglar to take 5 minutes out of his day to mail a package though. - Saintlink, on 10/12/2007, -2/+38Not all criminals are completely hardened. Some of them should never see the light of day again, but hopefully for this guy he takes this one-of-a-kind chance to turn his life around and do the right thing. This is quite an opportunity for him, let's just hope he takes advantage of it.
- spectre, on 10/12/2007, -2/+32@ Zenkai
If I'm not mistaken the evidence is still admissible because the police did not conduct a warrant-less search for it. As a matter of fact, the stick itself is probable cause that a crime was committed and could be used for an immediate search of the molester's home.
Besides all that, the defendant confessed to the crime without any more prompting than the detectives showing a photograph. They have tons of other evidence from his home and the 'hero' in question is a prime prosecution witness. Sadly, because the molester a first-time offender and apparently repentant, he'll probably get off with a few years at most. - Saintlink, on 10/12/2007, -5/+33He could have just deleted the files and walked away. Who knows? Perhaps he'll turn his life around? It will be interesting to watch how this develops.
- johndi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+26I kind of agree with thirdwheel the guy is still being evasive, and trying to limit his chance of conviction instead of helping the prosecution. Hahn did a good thing, but if he's a hero he still has a lot of tarnish to polish off. Coming clean would make even make it easier for a governor or president to give him a pardon. Sure it's taking a big risk, but then I'd call him a hero.
As for the real scumbag in the story: I hope they send him to a prison with a lot of fathers incarcerated. - lukas88, on 10/12/2007, -2/+26Let's not get carried away, this guy isn't a hero. Since when does doing the only right thing make you a hero? All it does is make him not a monster. The guy made no personal sacrifice, he mailed it in anonymously. He knew that he wouldn't get caught by just mailing it in, and he didn't. He was picked up on unrelated charges. When charged with those things, he tried to use his "good deed" as a bargaining chip.
It only takes the smallest iota of humanity to want to stop a child molester. I am really glad he was put in the position to do that, but just doing what ANY person with a heart would do does not make him a hero. Hesitating and later using it as a bargaining chip makes him a border line loser. - shredswithpiks, on 10/12/2007, -4/+25either way he's a hero... I bet most thieves would have left it alone
- toastgodsupreme, on 10/12/2007, -4/+24Let's make sure everyone understands...
1. Matthew Ryan Hahn stole a safe containing the memory card.
2. Matthew Ryan Hahn has been convicted of burglary more than once.
3. Matthew Ryan Hahn ANONYMOUSLY sent the usb stick to the police.
4. Matthew Ryan Hahn was arrested a year later and is being charged on 12 (TWELVE) counts of burglary.
5. Matthew Ryan Hahn attempts to use the fact that he ANONYMOUSLY sent that usb stick in to try to get a lessened sentence.
I hope the judge gives him the full sentencing for his crimes if convicted again. Why? Because this guy is a MULTIPLE OFFENDER and needs to be taken out of society. The fact that he sent that in and then later used it as leverage when he was arrested again shows how shady he is. If this guy had no prior convictions, I'd say, "Go lenient, he's probably not a bad guy." But he IS a bad guy. - chrisc2, on 10/12/2007, -4/+23See: tragic hero.
- dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -8/+25Whatever. He obviously didn't learn his lesson when he came across that evidence. Notice he was arrested on several MORE counts of burglary? Yeah, he put away a sicko, but, I'm sorry, someone who is a compulsive thief like him needs to spend some time in incarceration as well.
- foolfromhell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17Remember? it is 10 years for pirating movies. it is a fine for stealing from movie store
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17"As for the real scumbag in the story: I hope they send him to a prison with a lot of fathers incarcerated."
Doesn't matter where they put him, all they have to do is tell one inmate that the guy molested a 1 year old girl, and everyone would know within hours.. the guy would probably be beaten close to death, too. - theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19"a habitual criminal is no better then a pedo"
WRONG. Stealing doesn't ***** a CHILD'S life up. Stealing is a serious inconvenience to the victim. Pedophiles ***** UP CHILDREN'S LIVES FOREVER. The two are polar opposites. - JOJOFACE, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17I'm guessing you don't have children.
- leer317, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15FTA: "Hahn was arrested April 8, 2005, on a warrant for unrelated crimes. Barring a plea deal, he will soon face trial on 12 counts of first-degree burglary, possession of stolen property and grand theft.
But none of Hahn's current charges is for stealing the safe. Police didn't even know he was the person who tipped them off to Aitken.
Until they arrested him, and he said: ``I gave you Robbie Aitken.''"
It seems that after he sent in the memory stick, he still continued his life of crime (i.e. 12 counts of burglary, etc.), and seemed to use the memory stick in hopes of alleviating his crime.
His motive for telling about his association with the memory stick right then could be questionable. And the fact that he committed several crimes after the event really doesn't help his case in court... - Tochi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15Not sure if anyone has read this far down, but here's my view on this:
If Hahn hadn't stolen the memory stick, then "Robbie" may not have been ever caught. So, think of it this way, had he not been a thief, there would be one more truely evil person allowed to go free. I think Hahn deserves - at the very least - a reduced sentence. And I only hope that poor child can come to grips with what happened to her and live a normal, happy life. - Sophistifunk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14To all the "illegal search and seziure" idiots who watch too much law and order - it's only an illegal search if the defense can convince the judge that the person who found the information was acting on behalf of the police force (not that they asked him to, simply that he was looking for evidence of a crime). A break-in by a 2 time burglar would be hard pressed to meet that requirement.
- soogy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14The real tragedy is society. Murderers, rapists, child abusers, kidnappers and corporate thieves pretty much get away with their crimes. I'm getting sick and tired of seeing these ten-year or twenty-year sentences, of which they only serve a fraction.
This man is a burglar. He gets life in prison. Where is the justice? - shwaa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12that's really sad when we live in a world that has harsher penalties for stealing than ruining some little girl's life. Just imagine the day when you get more years in prison from pirating movies than molesting children.
- saska, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12He wasn't arrested for breaking into the safe. He didn't acknowledge his involvement in the crime until he was arrested for 12 other infractions. He did the right thing by turning in a child molester, but he is certainly a habitual criminal offender when it comes to burglary.
This is a tough moral question. Do you think he has the right to be out of jail despite his numerous offenses because he sent in the memory stick and identified the original owner? Would think he had that right if the next house he burglarized was yours? - foolfromhell, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15Heroin? Heroins cant be men, Heroin is either a woman or a drug
- moofree, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Sounds like a tv movie to me.
I bet we'll see this on dateline or 60 minutes soon.
The guy would have been a hero if he had went to the police station and turned himself in "I found this in some guy's safe I stole".
As it is, he's just a guy who made a right decision for once, at least he got that monster locked away. - juicehandy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10@superal1394
I hope you mean "is" admissible. Unreasonable searches only apply to government entities not private citizens who volunteer that information to authorities. In the instance that the police hire a criminal to steal evidence, it could be argued that the thief was employed by the police to seize the item. - Synoptic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10No...they're really not.
Ditch the cheap theology and really think about it. - alexant, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Molesting a child is no worse than stealing a memory stick??? With all due respect to your opinion, you must not be a parent.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Actually, with 3 strikes.. after the 3rd, you get life.
Molesting a child doesn't get you life. - breakfastpants, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10@Sophistifunk (btw, Return to Forever fan?)
That's right. Otherwise I could commit a crime and have a friend illegally gather key evidence on me and have it permenantly ruled invalid. - fkngroovn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8"Do you think he has the right to be out of jail despite his numerous offenses because he sent in the memory stick and identified the original owner? Would think he had that right if the next house he burglarized was yours?"
While I do think he should do some time, I don't think any human being deserves LIFE in prison for being a thief. - Monkeman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9"hild pornography / molestation yeilds a life sentence these days?
i mean.. im lacking words to express it properly without sounding like i'm on his side.. it's not like he killed anyone or stole anything valuble, no one was hurt physically. Sure the daughter will have years of emotional counsilling later in life, and i feel bad for her. But like im saying.. he didnt 'kill anyone'
prisons are for rehabilitating prisoners, changing their ways."
He didn't kill anyone, yes. But neither does a man who kidnaps a girl and cuts parts of her off, right?
He stole her innocence. He stole her trust in men. He stole a significant part of her sexual development, and he stole any chance of her having normal sexual relations without emotional stress.
Rape, especially when it involves children, is often a more heinous crime than murder. It harms the child severely, and demonstrates a flagrant disregard of the rights of another human being.
Also: prisons are for punishment. Only juvenile prisons are for rehabilitation. - ZenKai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9@CupBeEmpty: Thank you for the effort. +Digg. Civics was replaced by "Political Science" in my high school, which didn't exactly cover this. The FedEx argument in particular is compelling, good point.
Regarding "illegal search and seizure" (and @sophistifunk), that was my response to lyph, who stated that police occasionally "employ" criminals to break in for them (in which case they are acting *on behalf* of the police). - saska, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Don't talk that way about something you've obviously never read. :P
- TwoSlick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@igrha
By your thinking, everyone should have their "safes" broken into so we can catch more molesters. - kimzor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8"no one was hurt physically." - The small defenseless child was.
- daeken, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8After being good friends with 2 people who were raped, rape/mollestation became far, far worse than murder in my mind. Emotional counseling? Completely ***** someone up is more like it. Murder isn't the only way to take someone's life.
- ZenKai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@Lyph: Illegal search and seizure. No, they can't "break in" without a warrant.
@spectre: good point.
Anonymous tip just doesn't seem to equate with anonymous evidence. You very well may be right, and naturally the self-confession renders the whole thing moot. I'm just curious if there's any specific ruling on evidence obtained outside of the course of an investigation. Any techno-lawyers out their in DiggLand? - Sophren, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7This is why the three strikes law should be limited to violent crime.. :
- munkey, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9I agree. He did do the right thing, but it would have been better if he had brought it to them personally, like a man.
Then he just uses it to try to get him out of prison for his other mistakes. Toward the end it claimed that he said "I gave you Robbie Aitken." Sure he did, but he's just using it to his advantage to get out of prison.
If he really wanted to do the right thing, he should have just brought it to them upfront and told them the story. - jgreene777, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7the guy could have simply known who ACTUALLY DID tip the cops off and used it for his own gain.
- stevenb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Uh.. if the child molester goes to jail.. he more than likely won't make it very long..
Rapists and child molesters don't get very far in the jail system before they're killed by the inmates.. my buddy that used to be a detention officer was in charge of the "at risk" unit.. and it consisted of all the rapists and pedos that were on the cell block... quite often he was carting them to and from the hospital cause of the other inmates... - DoubtfulSalmon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I think the real question here is What the hell is someone who doesn't even understand the meaning of the phrase "honour among thieves" doing in a high responsibility high profile position as a criminal prosecutor?
The woman is so keen to get her sound bite on the nighttime news that she didn't even stop to think before opening her mouth. If anything, this situation demonstrates that there is *no* honour among thieves. She'd have been better off digging for a metaphor that argues that there's some good in everybody rather than misappropriating and misusing the first corny phrase that popped into her media-hungry head. - Drealoth, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."
- juicehandy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Obviously you have not read that book either.
- strcmp, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9Police need warrants. Private citizens don't.
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