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71 Comments
- greytfriend, on 06/07/2008, -6/+37It's strange to think of something we in America expect to be free and open being so regulated elsewhere. For some reason, when I thought of how the Chinese would view Digg, it made me think of Ellen Degeneres' famous line when she hosted the Emmy's right after 9/11 - that nothing would make Saddam and Bin Laden more crazy than seeing a female lesbian in a suit hosting a major event. Just the idea that Digg is so open to all viewpoints, even a lot of extreme left and right comments and posts, would probably make oppressive govts nuts. Keep it up, Diggers. We are the voice of freedom! Ok, at least part of it.
- bytock, on 06/07/2008, -1/+28It's important to note that not just china does this. I'm here in the United Arab Emirates and they block tons of websites from porn down to flickr. It can be depressing sometimes as an american used to his freedoms.
- seshomarusamma, on 06/07/2008, -1/+17China's firewall is very effective. Most of my Chinese friends prefer to use Baidu as their search engine and not Google. They claim that Google is not good because many of its results do not show up. They are not even aware of the firewall . They are used to some websites not showing up and think this is a feature of the internet. They prefer Baidu as it brings less of those sites than Google.
- Erect, on 06/07/2008, -0/+16The only reason google isn't blocked in China is because they agreed to filter their search results.
Chinese citizens are very aware their gov't censors content for them... but many believe it's for the best. i.e. "I shouldn't be looking at porn, so it's better if it's just not there." - inactive, on 06/07/2008, -4/+18I heard they use the default Microsoft firewall.
- kenvsryu, on 06/07/2008, -3/+11With the death of Net Neutrality, the US will become China.
- ogmak, on 06/07/2008, -0/+8I used to live in china, and believe me, its hard to get around on the internet. I used www.hidemyass.com A LOT, especially for wikipedia, since that was blocked there. So were many blogging sites, like blogspot.com. However, i got my dear ol' digg.com there, though viewing some of the the top dugg stories were kind of hard without a free internet proxy.
- takatoo, on 06/07/2008, -1/+9you can't see it from the moon
- mark076h, on 06/07/2008, -0/+7as bytock said it is not just China doing this and if you are interested in this subject you can pick up a book from the MIT Press that just came out called out called Access Denied: The Practice and Policy of Global Internet Filtering http://www.amazon.com/Access-Denied-Filtering-Info ... it has very in depth "Regional overviews" and country by country analysis of it's internet filtering policies and capabilities.
- Gryffydd, on 06/07/2008, -0/+6But at least you get to say it. The burying of whatever goes against the 'cool of the moment' is just the mindlessness of crowds combined with the freedom/sometimes-stupidness of a direct democracy.
- bglav, on 06/07/2008, -0/+6Just the idea that Digg is so open to all viewpoints, even a lot of extreme left and right comments and posts
Oh yes, very open... - Zephkiel, on 06/07/2008, -2/+7I'm in China right now, and it's frustrating that all Blogspot (Demconwatch!) sites are blocked. It's pretty easy to get around, though.
- Snokage, on 06/07/2008, -3/+8digg open to all ideas? pfft yeah right. if you say anything that's not pro-apple, pro-obama, or pro-atheism you get buried.
- Chalks777, on 06/07/2008, -1/+5no. Magic.
- gettophilosophr, on 06/07/2008, -0/+4You're saying that GB is further behind us?
How many cameras are in London alone, again? - hissir, on 06/07/2008, -0/+3A friend of mine has been teaching English in central-west China for several years. When I asked him about the great firewall, he said it took him seconds on end to get an unfiltered ISP. This effects you mainly if you are at work, or a similar location where they route through the gov't filters. But it's not too difficult to secure unfiltered access. They can't build children's schools with adequate supports. They definitely can't censor the entire Internet.
- itchyfeet, on 06/08/2008, -0/+3I work for a software developer in the west with a major office in China. When we were setting up our VPN with the China offices, we were trying to work out why even with high speed links, our traffic was being slowed down so much. We assumed that the great firewall was in action, but it still didn't explain things like, for example, MSN or Communicator style chats slowing down so much. Then somebody worked out that China was most probably intercepting every single packet, and things like MSN chats were being censored, BY HAND IN REALTIME. Think about this. The logistics alone is mind boggling - we're talking about an entire industry of people employed just to read chat traffic. George Orwell wasn't even close to something this far reaching.
Oh and the bad news is, it also means that Microsoft (and probably plenty of others) are in bed with the Chinese, providing them all they need to have backdoors into "encrypted" chat protocols like this.
Really quite disturbing. - hojibuji, on 06/07/2008, -0/+3source? sounds like your chinese gov't has been feeding you a healthy dose of propaganda... of course, I dunno if the great chinese firewall will permit you to find an unbiased source.... and where the ***** did you get "totalitarian state" from? say what you will about the patriot act and such, but that's peanuts compared to china's policies
- megamod, on 06/07/2008, -1/+4the Great Wall - awesome historical landmark/achievement to be proud of
the Great fireWall - ....eh not so much - fas2, on 06/07/2008, -0/+2How? With an anonymous proxy service?
- hojibuji, on 06/07/2008, -0/+2I'm going out on a limb here because you didn't say it outright... If you're not a citizen of the USA and you're trying to enter the country for whatever reason (relative on a deathbed or not), you're damn right you're going to be searched closely. How can you fault the US for wanting to make sure that the individuals entering the country are doing so for peaceful and lawful reasons? (sure, it may not work well on the southern border...)
Comparing US immigration screening to Chinese censorship of political speech to draw the conclusion that somehow the US is "only one step away from where China is right now" is just plain stupid. The two countries are not even close when talking about which one is "free and open"... - inactive, on 06/07/2008, -0/+2in China I couldn't visit certain porn torrent sites...
- oldcrows40, on 06/07/2008, -0/+2And it is called the "Golden Shield Project." The "Great Firewall of China" is just a nickname.
- gaoshan, on 06/08/2008, -0/+2I travel to China fairly regularly and have had great luck with Tor. Install and set it up and you can surf any site anywhere. I've used it for the past two years (at a fixed address in China) and the authorities have not done a thing.
- trice22, on 06/07/2008, -1/+3Man,—I just signed up because I can't believe people like you are actually still feeling themselves.
USA "free and open"? I'm not sure if a country that will take my fingerprints, when I'm trying to visit my relative on his deathbed, scan the contents of my laptop and check what I have been eating on the plane (and this is just an excerpt of the stuff that has been actually confirmed) can be anyhow called a "free and open" nation.
No offense—but the USA are only one step away from where China is right now. Different methods—sure—but the result will be the same. And just to make this clear, I don't believe that Europe will be any different. It just might take a tad longer, but Germany, GB, France and others will get the job done, I'm sure.
Peace. - oldcrows40, on 06/07/2008, -0/+2i know this isn't the best argument using wikipedia, but here it goes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Shield_Project - mark076h, on 06/07/2008, -0/+2no it's not the great firewall has been around long before that
- dlinkwit27, on 06/07/2008, -2/+4I don't understand why this is so shocking to people. With a government as unstable and paranoid as China, it only makes sense to block the internet. This is because the internet allows the common person to have something that, up until fairly recent history, only the nobles had; the power to communicate en mass. If one looks back through history this practice was common up until the recent centuries. Slaves in America were forbidden to read and write. Women still face this discrimination in some parts of the world. On medieval times, serfs were forbidden this luxury. And then, even when some lower class citizens were allowed the knowledge of the written word, the language of nobles, Latin, was kept from them.
History has shown and proven that the easiest way to stay in power and prevent rebellion is to limit the communication of those why may turn against you. The book 1984 is an example of this perfected.
-edit
I am not condoning this action, I am merely saying that this is not unprecedented. - fx666, on 06/07/2008, -1/+3The Chinese government is afraid that more information about the unrest in Tibet will become known to the public. So far the Chinese citizens were very supportive of their government, which means that they were brainwashed. But the information has the ability to change people's minds.
- dstz, on 06/07/2008, -2/+4China is not the only country to do this, but it is clearly the one toward which the most occidental anger goes.
I'm not sure if it is because
1) they saved our ass from inflation for 15 years,
2) or if it's because it will be the next most important country in the world,
3) or if it's because China's dictatorial regime cares for improving it's people life (according to international economic statistics) more than France allies (my country and it's cohort of 'not doing so good' ex-French-colonies, where French army still operates almost freely) or US strategic allies (countries such as Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.)
Let's say a little bit of each. - hojibuji, on 06/07/2008, -0/+1You don't have to fly, nor do you have a right to fly without being subjected to screening. That's why those types of searches are legal and legitimate. While the security benefits of all that airport screening are questionable (see one of Bruce Schneier's many articles on the subject), the goal is simple. Protect the wellbeing of travelers. Hardly an indictment of political and social freedom here in the US, especially compared to China.
Net Neutrality is a non sequitur here, and has nothing to do with the United States government actively limiting freedom of speech of its citizens. See http://www.google.com/help/netneutrality.html It's about broadband carriers seeking the Government's blessing to limit the openness of the Internet, not the US implementing some kind of great firewall where the federal government dictates what shall be seen and not seen.
Freedom of the press? The NY Times released details about the top-secret wiretapping program after Bush himself asked the editor not to... As far as I know, no one has been charged with a crime related to this. I'd say freedom of the press is alive and well in this country....
Once again, your comparison of citizens' rights and freedoms in the United States to China is nonsensical... - Skurj, on 06/07/2008, -0/+1that seems like complacency, but i guess it's just a matter of cultural differences.
" *sigh* i shouldnt be touching myself, best to castrate me and cut off my hands."
yup, definitely for the best. - KaliKot, on 06/07/2008, -0/+1I am right now surfing on the great firewall It sucks since international sites are slow and selective on others
But the good part of being in China is that Chinese sites are like on Hyper Super Turbo mode with youtube-ish sites like 56.com and tudou.com containing lots and lots of movies and there are lots of Chinese torrent/direct download sites.
I can only read some chinese but its good enough to browse around and find some good stuff
Still the great firewall sucks since its like the Chinese have their own internet world over here. But man Chinese online goodies (piracy) like the aforementioned sites are pretty cool nonetheless.
I can't wait to get out of the great firewall in a few days =D
And I have no idea where to get an unfiltered internet unfortunately - GofG, on 06/07/2008, -4/+5That wasn't funny at all.
- richiewrt, on 06/07/2008, -3/+4Be careful trying to circumvent it though, you are liable to end up disappearing over there.
- mark076h, on 06/07/2008, -0/+1i got seed only status on cheggit because my comcast upload speed is so ***** i could not keep a good ratio
- OnlyGirlOnDigg, on 06/07/2008, -0/+1I have a friend working at a university that can use Blogspot just fine. I guess he gets some of the filters taken off because he's a scientific researcher, though.
- mrcow05, on 06/07/2008, -0/+1I think that the Internet is a powerful tool that can bring people around the world together to discuss, think, and create. Limiting access to this information reduces people's ability to comprehend each other and coexist. Restricting Internet access also favors big media outlets such as TV, newspapers, radio, etc. that are often far from neutral in their standpoints & agenda.
- colifis, on 06/08/2008, -0/+1I recently spent two weeks in China. I had few issues with any web pages but when I did I just VPN'ed back to my PC in the US.
- greytfriend, on 06/09/2008, -0/+1I'd say the comparison is extremely exaggerated, not entirely nonsensical. Americans should be concerned and active in protecting our rights, but clearly what's happening in China in regards to limiting what can be seen and said is in an entirely different realm.
- googleabcd, on 06/09/2008, -0/+1All Chinese Internet users must use their real names when logging on to the Web, so they can be identified.
--
This is a false statement. In some net cafes, you have to give the admin your ID, but that is acceptable. - kaiquan, on 06/07/2008, -0/+1Love the nickname!
I guess the Great Firewall won't be a permanent fixture. As the government modernizes, things will change. The recent Sichuan earthquake expanded the limits of the government by a little as the government allowed much more criticism than usual through the Internet. Hopefully that will be a right step in the right direction. - inactive, on 06/08/2008, -0/+1Like how the American CIA comes over and makes you dissapear in your own country if they suspect you have terrorist connection? And how they keep over 26,000 such individuals on prison ships? Yes, be careful my chinese friend..of the CIA.
- LoJack, on 06/08/2008, -0/+1Politically oppressed, or Porn-censored?
http://www.forbes.com/home/technology/2007/05/30/p ... - Phoenixheart, on 06/09/2008, -0/+0Poor you... Are you blind or what?
- chinabiue, on 06/08/2008, -0/+0You can see anything if U want.
- aenegeling, on 06/07/2008, -0/+0freegate anyone? :)
- MrViklund, on 06/07/2008, -1/+1And there was nothing.
- decilios, on 06/08/2008, -1/+1They ditched the Great Wall of China for the Great Firewall of China.
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