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103 Comments
- theWaterboy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+59boogity boogity boogity...9/11 --- gimme all your records, boogity boogity boogity...9/11 -- just in case you are either:
a. a terrorist
b. a child porn perv
Seriously, child porn is NOT that prevalent on the web, and it certainly is not worth using as an excuse to further erode our rights in America.
Total McCarthyism.... - tlmac59, on 10/12/2007, -2/+47It is worth noting that Gonzales has previously tried to use the threat of terrorism to accomplish the same thing. See:
http://digg.com/tech_news/Terrorism_used_as_excuse_for_ISP_snooping_proposal - Artifez, on 10/12/2007, -2/+39You have nothing to worry about if you have nothing to hide.
/sarcasm - kremvax, on 10/12/2007, -2/+32Why does the Bush administration hate liberty so damned much?!
What *is* it with these thugs?
Anyone? - merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23"You may not believe it, but some people in the government just want to catch pedophiles. I know! It's weird."
Right. That's why we let them tap every phone in the country, and put cameras in every bedroom. They're only going to use it to catch those evil pedophiles!
The privacy of 300 million citizens is more important than catching a few hundred freaks. - thunderer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20They already keep the garbage for two years. It's called congress.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22Anything to get more information about us. I guess the illegal phone tapping is yielding enough.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16you are all guilty until you prove you arent by letting us look at your data.
Child porn is hideous, but i wouldnt support a government controlled camera in every home to stop it.
I would rather they catch the guy sending me viagra spam as it is the only spam i get right now.
I hear next they are going to retain all your garbage for 2 years to sift through at a moment notice.[/joke or atleast i hope so] - tlmac59, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16It looks like I may have inadvertently what is technically a duplicate story.
http://digg.com/tech_news/Gonzales_wants_ISPs_to_save_user_data
was submitted 2-3 minutes earlier than this story. Since his story did not show up when I did my pre-submission checking or when Digg did its automatic search for similar stories, I missed it. I guess that's what happens when two people submit stories at pretty much the same time. Sorry about that. - HeyArnold, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15you basicly posted exaclty what i wanted to say. the only thing id add is id like to see the next pile of ***** they produce to justify destorying all privacy on the internet.
- Powermac, on 10/12/2007, -8/+22THANKS BUSH ADMINISTRATION
AAA++++++ GREAT GOVERNMENT WILL DO BUSINESS AGAIN
Oh wait. *****, I hate republicans.
WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!! - jgtg32a, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15This would be OK IF I could honestly believe that it would only be used for kiddy porn.
But it wouldn't, National Security would be added to allowed searches in a few months, and (c) violations w/in the year. - adolfojp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14Child porn and terrorism are the keys to the constitution.
- mc4_a, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13Considering all the dupes on the front page this is not worth getting worked up about.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14*about the dupe* Hey, no big deal. Like you said, sometimes it happens. As long as the story gets out there that's all that matters to me. Digg for you. :)
- kingkilr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13***** Gonzales and ***** the horse he rode in on.
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13"Any bill on the planet can lead to bad consequences if manipulated after the fact. The key is to oppose the manipulation, not the original bill."
If the original bill has marginal potential benefit to begin with, and spectacular potential to *be* manipulated, why support it at all? - chewbaccapits, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10so, am I really that ignorant....Is child pornography that much of a problem?
- relay01, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11You know when your feel embarrassed because your dad/mom/anybody related to you, does/says something totally dumb in front of a bunch of other people...
I feel that right now... I'm temporarily diverting my eyes and pretending I'm not American. - scheper, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11They don't care about the child pornography, that should be obvious.
They want more information, because information is power, and child pornography and terrorism are two golden tickets to getting it. - Yanks2435, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9This whole deal is getting really old. Unfortunately Bush and his goons aren't going away soon enough. As tlmac59 already said, he tried to dump this on Terrorism and no one fell for it, so now he is trying to get it passed by saying its for child porn. I'm all for catching the terrorists, but when you start taking away peoples rights, the terrorists are winning.
- mdmadph, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9funny how in the beginning the terrorists hated us "because of our freedoms." I notice I don't hear that being touted anymore by this administration.
- Corvidae, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Amongst the republican party, yes it is a problem. They never cleaned out all the people connected to the GoP sex ring back in the late 80's to early 90's. I've only heard of three or four of them being arrested in the past few years. There's probably some ties back to the Dems as well, but no telling how many are still in power since the investigations were shut down.
Honestly there is no reason for what Gonzales is asking for. They can easily find the distributors and work backwards towards the perverts from there. Also there are a dozen different ways to browse anonymously. I would guess that as soon as ISP's start logging dns requests, those not wishing to be spied on will simply connect to anonymous proxies. Making them even harder to find once you do take down the distributors.
Consider the RIAA going after file sharing. They took down napster, and now there are dozens of places to download files illegally. For every one they take down, two more will pop up. It's similar to prohibition, every time they raided a speak easy, more would open up, that were even harder to find, or better armed.
It's a case where the problem has to be stopped at the demand. Unfortunately the more sexually repressed a culture is, the harder it will be to curb that demand. Similar to the studies showing that sex education lowers teen abortions more than abstinance cults. With the right education and acceptable outlets the problem would be greatly reduced. (Let's face it, there will always be some deviants in any society)
In the end, Gonzales is trying to throw water on an oil fire, and is only going to make it worse. We need a smarter solution, not a bigger hammer. - spahn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I just love the last paragraph:
"Justice Department officials have said that any proposal would not call for the content of communications to be preserved and would keep the information in the companies' hands. The data could be obtained by the government through a subpoena or other lawful process."
Going by the record of this administration, "other lawful process" could mean "we say it's legal to make you give us this information without a warrant or subpoena, so you have to give it to us." - jgtg32a, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Oakes its because of the slippery slope that the US legal system has gone through.
The quickest example I can come up w/ and unfortunately my response is gone to be buried because of it, but off the top of my head its the first thing that came to mind
Take into consideration that there were laws against Gays, right or wrong there were.
They were prosecuted under Sodomy laws
Then there was a case in Texas "stay out of our private affairs" and it was OK, the gov no longer prosecuted gays under that.
Society changed Gays are (more) accepted
Now there's the whole Gay marriage debate
Gays have now changed their tune now they want gov's blessing to get married
Come to thing of it this may not be a slippery slope but I can see this happening w/ this law.
Kiddy Porn > Terror > (c)
That is why I'm don't like this, I'm not a tin foil hat I've just seen this in the past.
Please don't bury because of the whole gay marriage debate and please lets not start a gay marriage debate here if you can come up w/ a better example of this happening then write it - Rob3000, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9As an owner of a regional ISP, I'd like to say this to "AG Gonzales": Go ***** yourself, puppet.
I don't log my customers traffic; I don't care what they do; it's *their* business, not mine, what they do online.
Gonzales is such a limp tool, it just amazes me. Think of the children? ***** you. Think of the lost freedoms. - totorototoro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Yep, the old "Think of the Children" argument, works every time.
- sriracha, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Gee, what our excuse for doing this now?
"Totalitarianism" - we can't admit that in public
"Terrorism" - here come the elections and it's not scaring anyone any more
"Child Porn" - that's the ticket! - tlmac59, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9@shane828
You are right - it sometimes happens. However, since I am often vocal about dupes, I hate it when I wind up submitting a dupe and feel obligated to explain what happened. Between dupes, blog spam and other spam, it sometime seems like Digg is about half junk.
Spam can be ignored, but dupes can kill a good story quicker than anything else. I am sure there are countless examples of multiple dupes sucking diggs from one another to the point where no version of the story gets promoted. In other words, if 60 diggs are spread over 8 dupes and none gets promoted, then the front page is missing out on a story that was obviously popular. I wish there was a good answer to this problem. - jsusanka, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8this is all bs -
do they really think the real sicko criminal child pornographers are going to give an isp any real information.
do we really need any more of our privacy invaded by people who think they know best. - MikeMacMan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Child porn seems to be the governments excuse to do anything these days...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@buggles
Now I'm no Kerry fan, and I'm not a Democrat. But I'll take a flip-flopper over a born-again, incoherent, pathological liar any day. Maybe the real problem is that the GOP will go to any length to viciously smear any Democrat running for any office in the country. - SilentBobSC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5It's because it's the one thing everyone can agree on as being the most horrific human abuse. HOWEVER... they (gov't) are preying on the public-at-large's lack of knowledge when it comes to teh intarweb and all of it's tubes... the simple fact of the matter is that anyone who is A) enough of a perverse bastard to posess/distribute CP and B) dumb enough to post said CP to a WEBSITE is going to get busted, no doubt. It's far too easy to track IPs and log access on websites. Now on the other hand, a fair majority of CP is produced out-of-country (Russia, Indonesia, South America, etc) so it is far beyond the reach of our gov't to "stem the tide". Simply, they really don't care that much about CP but it's the big nasty they pull out when they wanna scare the soccer-moms and Nascar-dads into buying whatever they're selling.
- fohat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Gonzales needs to learn an important lesson: Repeating the same thing over and over will not make it true. ISP's should not be bullyed into doing this. Won't someone please think of the populace??
Earlier spoutings:
http://news.com.com/U.S.+attorney+general+calls+for+reasonable+data+retention/2100-1030_3-6063185.html
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/06/us_government_w.html - Tawni, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I'm just waiting for Bush to stage a coup, void the constitution and declare himself ruler and supreme being. He and Gonzales will just strip us of our rights which they have been doing slowly but surely anyway.
*I will now have my phones tapped and the gov't harrassing me for posting this lol - andreo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Child porn and children in general are always used to promote something. I don't have kids but I have nothing against kids either. But as soon as I hear some bonehead using the kid argument as to why we should do something I immediately grow suspicious. If I have the time I start digging to find out just what this person has actually done for kids. The answer is normally nothing. Which makes me call out ***** on what they are trying to promote.
There are lots of real child problems happening right now. Poverty most likely being the largest contributor to child problems today. And lets not forget abusive parents, parents that just don't give a crap about their kids, children that will not have proper winter clothing in the next few months, inadequate education (because illiteracy starts at childhood, nobody grows up knowing how to read and then forgets). Real issues that can be taken care of right now in this country. If they find it to hard to find children in need in this country then there are plenty of children in other countries that you can literally find dieing on the streets from starvation.
If any politician wants to through the child card out they need to start taking care of the issues that are happening right here and right now that can be easily be spotted first. After that is taken care of then try to convince me that you need to go digging through someones browser history to make things even better.
As for Gonzalez. I'm sure that he doesn't give two shakes of his dick about child porn or even children for matter. - YankeesSuck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Support privacy. Run an onion router:
http://tor.eff.org/ - MaxDrax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Another veiled threat to general privacy, courtesy of the extremist Bush Presidency, which I now see as Republo-fascist.
As stated above, much of the child porn that exists out there comes from the FBI. They use a broad collection of child porn in order to entice adults to view, download, and distribute it. They swoop in for the arrest once they document the above crimes.
Convictions are a matter of public record. I think most people would be surprised by the large number of suspected child pornographers that stand trial each year in the United States. Many receive up to 20 years in prison, and that's just for possession of child porn. Distribution can get you life. Considering that the FBI can already subpoena an ISP to record and safeguard the browsing habits of any given individual, Gonzales' request seems suspicious to me.
My theory is that the Republo-fascists are seeking to obtain and exploit the private browsing habits of present and future political adversaries. - merdiesel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5OK Alberto Gonzales, let me see your green card!
...is it wrong for me to assume that every Hispanic person is an illegal immigrant if he assumes that everyone on the Internet is involved with child pornography? - elroy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7He's already stated numerous times that their #1 priority is OBSCENITY.
- fatdog789, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Not to mention the NSA dude who was convicted (or plead guilty?) of sending obscene sexual material to a girl he thought was 14 years old...
Nice to know what the Republican party thinks of morality...Democrats may believe in free love and all that, but at least we don't lust after children. - MikeCerm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I think that if Gore/Kerry had been elected and done absolutely nothing, wouldn't we have been better off? You know, they could have been hamstrung by the Republican congress or something... The Bush administration has made wrong decision after wrong decision, and have had unlimited support in congress.
That's basically the best case that I can make against the Republicans. They had the executive and legislative branches sewn up. Where we are today, and this is the best that they could do? They could have done anything that they wanted to do, and passed any laws that they wanted, and this is what they've made America? This is the best that they could do, what they chose to do? Huge deficits, unnecessary war, domestic spying, and torture, no plan for healthcare/Social Security, no plan for net neutrality, no plan for Katrina, no 9/11 memorial?
Everything is exactly the way they wanted it to be, because, for the last 6 years, who has effectively opposed them? No one. I'm not endorsing anyone here, I'm just saying that anyone, Nader, Dean, Kucinich, freakin' Sharpton could have at least ***** up less. - Rickler, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10xilaen, what's the definition of a terrorist gathering site?
If you ask me a terrorist gathering site is currently the Whitehouse. - JonForTheWin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Hell yes seeing how he was appointed by a president who wasn't elected.
- Burritovision, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3i believe this is a potential violation of the 4th amendment.
- MikeCerm, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6If Gonzalez wants my records, why go to the ISPs at all? He already said that he's cool with the Bush administration torturing people... I'd totally crack!
- streetstealth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Best "SNAP!" of the week.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3History tells us that the current government is all for being able to pick a choose what laws it will follow. The claims this will aid the fight against child porn or terrorism is a thin veil to hide the fact such program would likely be used for fishing expeditions. They already have the legal authority to order an ISP to maintain it's records, if they'd get on the ball an not wait six months to pursue leads they might be more effective. ISP record rentention hasn't been a problem for the RIAA.
- tsf5000, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10Oakes must work for the Bush administration.
- rabidbadger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Like that matters to these guys.
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