What is Digg?47 Comments
- samuelcotterall, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9When I first heard of Ruby On Rails I kinda dismissed it for the same reasons mentioned in the article, but after a few hours working with it I was hooked.
Because I cut out a lot of long-yet-essential tasks (creating validated forms, for example) I can work a lot quicker, and spend more time on things I enjoy.
I got in to web development because it was creative and fun, but recently I have been getting hung up about it. RoR puts the fun back in to development. - jesusphreak, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Apparently you haven't used Rails very much. Scaffolding is probably about 2% of Rails and most people don't even use it.
- Lionhart, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10diggers will digg anything that sounds smart. guarantee 90% of the people that dugg this have no idea what its even about.
- ionbattle, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11@eldoo77
Kevin Rose dugg it, that's how.
When you've got a 99% stories dugg to the homepage rating. The algorithm starts to trust you I believe, or he's just promoting anything he diggs to the homepage manually. - skidooer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Yup. You can imitate it, but most languages do not have the feature-set required to duplicate it. Not to mention the most important factor, "beautiful code". That is something that is much more difficult to achieve in other languages.
Also, the supplied code in the article is severely out of date (using several deprecated methods) considering it was written less than a week ago. - joshpeek, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9Ruby is the Secret Sauce. Rails wouldn't be what it is in any other language.
- cowardlydragon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6prolly b/c it was posted on slashdot
- Herolint, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I played around with Ruby on Rails for a while, but as far as I can tell Ruby doesn't support Unicode and UTF-8 (I would love to be corrected on this). However, I really liked Ruby on Rails.
I like Django better though. I already know Python (which is a big plus) and Python supports Unicode and UTF-8. I also think for new users, Python is a lot easier to learn than Ruby, but I could be wrong.
Both Django and RoR solve similar things. Some things Django does better and some things RoR does better.
Ramble. . .Ramble. . .Ramble... - brentzilla, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Simply not true. The fact that Ruby on Rails makes me more productive has absolutely nothing to do with a lack of ability to code. In fact, if you can't understand basic concepts in another language you will be woefully lost on some of Ruby's more advanced features(procs, etc.). What it DOES show is that the framework and the language are designed better with the task in mind. If I am inefficient in another framework in another language it is because that framework was not designed properly with respect to productivity. It is a problem with the language/framework, not my coding. Try coding in RoR and then come back and make such unsupported comments. Whether something can be done in other languages doesn't mean that it is done as nicely or as efficiently.
- CaughtThinking, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4yup. "lol java lol" can sum up most of the RoR perspective.
- corbanbrook, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5amen
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5The secret sauce is the product of the big group of teenagers circle-jerking over RoR of course.
- dasch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3So you're saying we should've stuck with ALGOL...?
- apetrie, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6As someone who doesn't care or have time to read both, I hope you don't get what you want. =)
- learner404, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Ruby and RoR are cool but Python web frameworks are coming fast now :)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-70449010942275062&q=django
http://www.djangoproject.com/
http://www.turbogears.org/ - brentzilla, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. You obviously have not done any significant programming in RoR or you would not have made such a blatantly stupid comment. Hardly anyone even USES scaffolding except just to verify that the model is working.
- Jack9, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Agreed. Note the immediate knee-jerk "try to do the same thing in COBOL" as if comparing cars to apples is somehow reinforcing their argument that Ruby is "different". While there are many smart people who like and use Ruby, there are far more fan-boys who think that their syntactic familiarity with a "new language" puts them in the same circle. Where can you FIND idiots like this? We have plenty of work for mindless drones at my company.
- brentzilla, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Good point. It has only ever been the best choice for a small segment of projects: web applications. That landscape is the landscape that is now changing. I think that is what they meant by "all development projects". Even though that is certainly debatable.
- samuelcotterall, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4You are judging RoR on the basis of it's name?
- Eldoo77, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6How in the heck did this make the 1st page???
- sbrown123, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I agree that Ruby is the secret sauce. But Rails is already being cloned in other languages. Look at Grails as an example (Groovy clone of Rails).
- reverendpaco, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4"If a new language dramatically increases your productivity, you weren't a good enough programmer in your previous language to have written or adopted tools or practices that would have made you more productive in the first place."
Wow mgainor,
You are completely, 100% dead-wrong.
Here's a simple thought experiment. Code a basic web application in Assembly, Basic or Cobol. Now do it in Java or C# or even C++. I bet you one of the latter is more productive than the former. If you can accept that there is a productivity difference in just this little thought experiment, than you can see how your statement is highly inaccurate.
You *might* be arguing that among high-level languages, the _degree_ to which these languages provide productivity gains is negligible and/or compensated for by adequate use of tools. Even if you are making this argument, I maintain you are wrong.
Go google that famous essay by P. Graham called 'Beating the Averages'. He addresses just this common fallacy and thoughtfully calls it 'The Blub Paradox'. Heck, I'll even provide you the link:
http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html - esquareda, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5Geez - what is with you people? The more I browse stories, the more bitching and moaning I have to read. Digg it or don't. Now, that is a comment samuelcotterall - nicely done.
- krewemaynard, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6Whatever it is, Slashdot hit it first: http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/14/1456224
Could we at least try for unique headlines? That goes for /. taking digg headlines too. - Eldoo77, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2@ionbattle
That makes sense... I just didn't think there were THAT many rails fanboys on Digg (unlike /.)... - RyeBrye, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3I think the secret is the mixed metaphor. It is the same secret working in the title of this article.
- theprodigy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3lol, you literally have no idea what you're talking about
- shout, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5I agree although there are similar style frameworks in PHP so I don't know if the language really is all that makes it what it is.
- pra9ma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0While I can't say that I've actually worked with the Ruby language that much, I have worked with a large number of low-level languages and high-level scripting languages. I've seen similar statements made about other languages before, but in truth I think the major gain usually comes from the paradigm that the framework implements and less from the language itself. In this case, I think you have a lot of frustrated Java programmers that have just about had it with the cumbersome and fugly J2EE stack. These guys are blown away by the simplicity of RoR and as a result are becoming Ruby guys by the droves. So I think it's more likely that Rails made Ruby, not the other way around.
A related example is the Ajax movement. Sun, like usual is trying to staple another technology onto J2EE and as a result the framework gets more difficult to work with. Other frameworks suffer the same issue, possibly to a lesser extent. Real gains for Ajax will come in the next generation frameworks that are built entirely around the Ajax paradigm such as Backbase ( http://www.backbase.com ), General Interface ( http://www.tibco.com ) and ThinWire ( http://www.thinwire.com ). - DAaaMan64, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2You must sound pretty smart mister 6+
- rsforbes, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2great...another bleed blue biased article. Check out the "About the series" section:
“The programming landscape has changed since Java technology was the obvious best choice for all development projects.”
When was this ever true? - samuelcotterall, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Hmm, some people only read /. - others only read Digg.
But I know what you mean. I look at my RSS feeds and half the stories are the same. - tgone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0RoR is great, but not every site fits into the MVC paradigm. So why choose one language over the other when they both excel at different things? People didn't stop using telephones when the Internet was invented. You're better off using both tools and knowing when to use them.
- pra9ma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Front what I've seen, whether a digg story makes front page has a lot to do with how many friends you have in your "my friends" and how much time those people spend digging stories. Once someones in your friends list, every story they digg lights up and it's only natural for friends to go, "oh, joe thought that was cool, so now I do too".
- Jack9, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12% of Ruby? That explains why so many people dont bother with it.
- mgainor, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Anyone who tells you that some new scripting language is a 'different kind of language' is more interested in evangelism than anything substantively technical. There is nothing that can be done in Ruby that couldn't be done with any of a number of other languages. If a new language dramatically increases your productivity, you weren't a good enough programmer in your previous language to have written or adopted tools or practices that would have made you more productive in the first place.
- JDOG, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3This headline is making me hungry.
- reverendpaco, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@jack
Tsk, tsk.
So, you have pointed out that I have used the 'knee-jerk' argument of 'car you code this in Cobol?'...
What I have not noticed in your comment is an answer to my question. Can you? Would you code it in Fortran?
I'll tell you something very important: sometimes the reason an argument is popular is because it is true. Your dismissal of this argument as 'knee-jerk' does not in anyway validate your implicit counter-argument.
I have been coding for 20 years, only professionally for about 12. I have coded in C,C++, fortran,Java,Perl,VB, JPL, Ruby, Clisp, Cobol, Smalltalk. I can give you many arguments that Ruby kicks ass.
I will also argue that there are a lot of 'band-wagoners' and evangelists around Ruby. So what? You do yourself a dis-service if you ignore or attach a technology because you don't like the culture. Especially odd is that the Ruby culture is not even that grating, (maybe a bit over-enthusiastic). Definitely not at the level of the lisp crowd.
I'll stick by my guns: some languages are better than others. Ruby is more expressively powerful than a lot of others, and the hype that is Rails would not be possible without Ruby.
Stay bitter or learn. I'd recommend learning it so that you can make an informed argument why Ruby/Rails might or might not be the 'bees knees' - brentzilla, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@sbrown123:
Sorry, but it's not a clone if it can't support some of the core features that Ruby provides. It's close but no cigar. - uahgekido, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1It could be that it was voted on by non-fanboys, too. The article was trying to pick apart the different aspects of Rails that make it so popular with the notion that other developers on the more mainstream platforms consider using some these ideas in their own work.
- dasil003, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0You know what's even sadder than a bunch of fanboys who don't know what they're talking about?
People who judge technologies based on the fanboy factor. - brentzilla, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5@shout:
Try actually comparing the features side by side of Ruby vs PHP and then try making that statement again. - orbitalleader, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Why did this appear on the front page? The same reason IBM-generated stories appear on the front page: Rose is angling for an IBM ad contract. Look at other submissions from the developerworks site, which is a big ad for IBM -- Rose makes sure they get to the front page no matter how bad they are.
This is just a big shill for a potential advertiser. Shame on the digg boys for treating us with such contempt. - repins, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Pra frente Brasil!
- Paktu, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3That's a damn good question. 25 diggs in 20 hours? What the *****?
- spc2226, on 10/12/2007, -15/+8Rails is only good for scaffolding. Simple as that. No digg.
- dawks-, on 10/12/2007, -15/+4ruby on rails is one of the most ***** names i've ever heard of for a tech related product.. it pisses me off. also, no digg.
:D
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