What is Digg?161 Comments
- coldphoenix, on 10/12/2007, -7/+67I don't think java sucks, but like any language it most definitely has its pitfalls...and while its portability is one of its biggest advantages, most all java based software i've ever used always seems to feel bloated and take up way more RAM than it should.
- Mrkamikaze, on 10/12/2007, -2/+44Scary that Foxpro is still on any list.
- jspegele, on 10/12/2007, -8/+43VB above PHP? Why not just stab me in the heart.
- kuj007, on 10/12/2007, -5/+32yeah but can I learn them in 24 hours (or 21 days)?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+27The same for Pascal and COBOL.
- echimu, on 10/12/2007, -16/+35Look like someone never worked in an enterprise environment. And why not backup your statement with some sort of evidence?
- PopcornDave, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20This list is useless unless you're upper management trying to push something. There is no *right* language for everything. Some languages are better for certain tasks than others. Always have been, always will be.
If I want to crank something out quick I use Perl. If I'm worried about size and speed I'm going to look at C/C++ or ASM.
Odd how assembly didn't even make the list, or is it that nobody does machine coding anymore? - kerv, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17The summary....
1 Java
2 C
3 C++
4 (Visual) Basic
5 PHP
6 Perl
7 Python
8 C#
9 JavaScript
10 Delphi
11 SAS
12 Ruby
13 PL/SQL
14 D
15 ABAP
16 Lisp/Scheme
17 COBOL
18 Ada
19 Pascal
20 Visual FoxPro - lassel, on 10/12/2007, -12/+27Being a java fanboy and your "run of the mill" m$-phobic, it makes me really happy to see c# dwarfed like that.
I don't belive it though. c# is pretty popular esp. in small/medium businesses. - Mrkamikaze, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16Even after looking in the Mirror this morning?
- Brahma, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15@jspegele
Can you give us a small example as to what you can do something in 1 line in PHP that would otherwise take 100 lines of code in VB.Net. Either you are too unaware of .Net inbuilt libraries or you are one of those "I hate everything that comes out of Microsoft" guys.. - jspegele, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19I've only done PHP work on relatively small scale websites, but my full-time job is maintaining a $2billion a year company's VB.NET website. On a daily basis I find myself grinding my teeth as I write endless lines of code that could easily be replaced by one line of PHP.
- weprin, on 10/12/2007, -10/+22I've used both VB.NET and PHP and have found that .NET to be infinitely more powerful, efficient, effective, and maintainable platform for developing enterprise websites. No, whether you use VB.NET or C#.NET is ambiguous, as the development process for both is nearly identical and the end result is also the same.
- bigticket, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Scary that I have to use FoxPro. I feel trapped. Help me, someone!
- WarpFox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10I work for a company that runs software coded in Fox Pro and is run on a SCO/unix system.
RUN AWAY. NOW. - EricAnderton, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8I'll second that. Popularity != Superiority.
This index defines "popularity" as the sheer volume of web-pages with favorable Google page rankings. So all this tells us is that, in general, how much quality web activity surrounds any given programming language. It completely excludes languates that are:
- well understood, but pre-date the WWW
- have small user communities, or non web-saavy ones
- small in scope and will fit on the back of an envelope
You could go as far as to say that Java, being so incredibly huge in its scope (think specifications, javadocs, certification tracts, etc) just takes up a lot of room on the web. From that viewpoint, it's hardly suprising that it overtook C, which is smaller in every concievable way. And since C is obvously* better at some tasks than Java, the general metric fails to describe superiority overall.
So to re-iterate what the parent said: if you think popular = better, then: Go home. Do not pass 'Go', and do not collect $200.
(*C is better than Java for low-level stuff, like OS and driver development or Java VMs) - noseeme, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Lets go Python! (Clap Clap ClapClapClap)
- chazcross, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8ASP != ASP.NET
- greyfade, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9The list is the top 20 (and 50) programming languages in the area of USAGE. That is, it's the list of languages you should be familiar with if you want a job programming. They're the top 20 languages that are actually USED right now.
It has NOTHING to do with whether C is better than D. (Hint: it isn't, but that's neither here not there.) - armbar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8ColdFusion would be a lot higher if it didn't suck donkey balls.
- jbreckman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10That is probably true for small programs. Java doesn't make sense on the small scale. It does make a lot of sense on a very large scale.
Even if it does take more actual lines, they'll be higher quality lines and easier to read. - raindogmx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8It's a term you can google.
- lostradamus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11Way to go Java! Good to know i'm still useful!
- shakin, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12Unix people will usually like PHP (and Perl, Python and Ruby) much better than any .NET language. Windows people will usually feel much more at home with C# and VB.NET.
It's important to know that PHP comes from a Unix background and thus it is a Unix-like language. It is less structured than many other languages, but very easy to work with and you don't need a lot of lines of code to do something useful. Good PHP programmers will use the language's flexibility to build structure. .NET is much more structured to begin with, so you see less crapola spaghetti code, but at the same time I think it lacks some flexibility that some programmers want. - xixor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I think the constant stream of stories and discussions attempting to label things as the "The Best" is getting a little tired. Examples include PS3 vs. 360 vs. Wii, Ipod vs. Zune vs. Rio, Firefox vs. IE vs. Opera, Linux vs. Windows vs. OSX. An article discussing language features of the relevance of a particular languages to solve a problem would be much more meaningful than a tracking of the popularity of a particular language.
- chmod, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"fanboys of programming languages?"
I've found a non-coder. - raindogmx, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10"I've only done PHP work on relatively small scale websites, but my full-time job is maintaining a $2billion a year company's VB.NET website. On a daily basis I find myself grinding my teeth as I write endless lines of code that could easily be replaced by one line of PHP."
That has nothing to do with the language but with the design of your application. I wonder how a $2billion a year company can't afford good software design. I work with VB.NET and PHP too. - OsiVert, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6It's interesting they don't consider ASP or ASP.net a language since it "makes use" of other languages. I think that Actionscript would fall in that same category.
- bryxal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Read the fine print, it mentions Assembler
- rompom7, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5bsolidgold: If it's going to take you 5 days to write your program in C++.. Or its going to take 3 days to write it in Java... Guess which one your boss is going to tell you to do it in?
- Beaver6813, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Erm ive never bought a book on php in my life and i can code it fine... they should measure it somehow on size of the community. I used php.net all the time for reference, not some book, thats so last month.
- shoelace414, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I guess I should dump my RPG skills and take up Visual Fox Pro?
- bryxal, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7I would but i stabbed myself first
- riah, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6People, people, please RTFA. It's not about which one is best, but which is most popular. Sort of like homecoming court.
- Brahma, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10@PopcornDave
You seem to have a wrong impression on speed of the programming languages. C++ will definitely be faster for doing small stuff. However as your application continues to grow there is a huge burden in managing memory. Here is where C++ loses its advantage to JVM or .Net CLR. The Java and .Net runtime use a highly sophisticated algorithm to allocate and de-allocate memory (read Garbage collection) which is lacking in C++. According to studies the best memory managed C++ programs are also much slower than that of Java and .Net. The reason is simple. C++ does lots of small memory allocation and de-allocation which is not the case in Java and .Net. They implement a sweeping mechanism wherein the long lived object are promoted to a larger heap and are garbage collected at a later time. So instead of frequent allocation and deallocation there is address space compression and different generations of memory collection. - dlsspy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6@OpCzar
"I don't find the syntax as easy to understand as Java."
I sort of read that as, ``I only know java and languages that look like java, and that isn't one of them.''
I don't have trouble reading OCaml (not to say it's a challenge to write code that's hard to read). I've heard people state they have a distaste for the OCaml syntax, but I've heard more say they have a distaste for python's syntax.
The taste for aesthetics can change throughout your life. Especially when you take on something that gives you benefits in other areas. OCaml is insanely fast, and functional programming helps you think about solving your problems.
You shouldn't discount it just because it's unfamiliar. - Saffa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The less used a language, the harder it is find developers and the more they will charge. Sometimes this means the "best" language doesn't win...
- meadot01, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7What proves the obvious? Java is more popular because it take more lines of code? How do you "win" by having more lines of code?
- avlasics, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I agree - FORTRAN77 is better than any of those other languages. I think Bjarne Stroustrup used some kind of brainwashing device to convince everyone to start programming in C/C++ and similar languages (like Java, C#, Python, etc.) And what's with all these "windows"? Everyone knows a computer screen should be black with green letters - and all graphics and animations should be made out of ASCII characters.
- Markie1006, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I used to feel the same way about Java, stuck in the same 'java is slow and bloated' mindset, until recently when I saw it in the hands of some competent programmers.
Our trading apps use a lot of java and they are extremely fast (we do more than 2mil trades per day). - IWriteCode, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4ABAP = CRAP Wanna be COBOL, and all comments and names in German.
- superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7All modern JAVA VM's use JIT (just in time compiling) to compile Java code in-memory, as it runs - for server applications especially this can mean performance faster than C or C++ which must be compiled without taking into account how data will actually flow through the application.
- EricAnderton, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4As TIOBE has been panned back and forth, it's hard to say if it's really a reliable metric at all. But it's neat to see a popularity metric that is readily updated like this.
That said, go D! Check out the x13 delta for this month. - darkstar949, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@rompom7 - Sadly it's typically the one that the senior developer in the shop what's to work in (or already knows). I have heard of quite afew projects that took longer to finish than they should have because the wrong language was used.
- IWriteCode, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I wouldn't consider it a language either. It probably accounts for the high VB numbers though. Especially since most classic ASP apps are written in VBScript, and many ASP.NET are as well. The surprise here is the drop in C# numbers. I'm sure C# had a rapid rise in the beginning of the .NET release, and now VB'ers are starting to get used to the idea of OO programming.
In addition, with DotNetNuke on the web side being so popular as an open source application (again written in VB.NET), you have a lot of folks moving to VB due to having access to the code. DNN does have some major code bloat issues to work out, but it definitely attributes to VB's growing popularity. - gosseyn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Where is good-ol' FORTRAN77 ?
- DarkLance, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3ha.... guess i'm some kind of dinosour... I'm a JCL / NATURAL programmer... oh, and I learned ADA when I was a gov'ment employee...
- kuj007, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3it's SAPs proprietary customization language for its ERP platform.
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