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176 Comments
- cubicledrone, on 03/22/2009, -2/+123The four stages of programming:
1. BASIC
2. Perl
3. C
4. Laid off and replaced by someone the cheap-ass incompetent manager has never seen face-to-face - DonnyW, on 03/22/2009, -1/+57Makes me feel pretty good I guess. Just have to keep killing web pages until I level up.
- generalalcazar, on 03/22/2009, -4/+59This is the way I see it:
1. Not a programmer
2. Not a programmer
3. Absolute beginnner
4. Average programmer - brownb2, on 03/22/2009, -0/+49"4. Laid off and replaced by someone the cheap-ass incompetent manager has never seen face-to-face "
5. Bonus for the manager saving money, getting the job done on schedule... but a product hacked to ***** and unable to support more than 1 simultaneous user safely (mmm static objects), using "custom encrypted" base64 client side exposed session objects, unmaintainable by any other developer with documentation that describes how the system works, had it not gone through 100 "waterfall" model iterations.
6. Boss is promoted/moves to better job before the ***** hits the fan and higher ups realise/care that the product doesn't scale and that new features take 100x times as long to add because it's all jenga.
7. Rinse repeat. - tdyer, on 03/22/2009, -3/+35said by a true level 1
- inactive, on 03/22/2009, -0/+28I'm a lvl 6. I code works of art while stoned
- generalalcazar, on 03/22/2009, -1/+28"This guy can even work on multiple languages and platforms." No way. He must be a genius!!
- MAGZine, on 03/22/2009, -0/+27I'd say 1. is not, but 2 is the beginner, 3. is beginner-medium and 4. is the guy you want to hire to get the job done.
- plaguepony, on 03/22/2009, -5/+28This is not programming, this is Web Devlopment, a subsection of the former. Programming includes both technical coding and Computer science, all of witch are district from each other.
- LiquidIse, on 03/22/2009, -11/+34FTA: "This guy can even work on multiple languages and platforms."
This is the highest achievable level according to this article? That and being able to easily formulate algorithms?
This is embarrassing to read. - maz2331, on 03/22/2009, -0/+20Language and platform are irrelevant. What counts is problem-solving skills, and the ability to communicate the solution in exrutiatingly, pull-your-hair-out, nobody-could-ever-mess-this-up detail. Then handle the cases where they do mess it up.
That's programming. - scuba7183, on 03/22/2009, -1/+21burn.
- replaysMike, on 03/22/2009, -2/+20Actually that was pretty close to home.. I enjoyed reading it. Now enjoy the comment graveyard.
- diggydougie, on 03/22/2009, -1/+19I did Pascal, C, and then BASIC. I'm all messed up.
- generalalcazar, on 03/22/2009, -1/+18Why do I get the feeling that this was written by a self-taught web dev?
- nyx210, on 03/22/2009, -1/+18If you're simply copying & pasting without knowing how the code actually works, you shouldn't be called a programmer.
- thetweek, on 03/22/2009, -1/+174 levels of programming
O(1)
O(log(n))
O(n)
O(n^3) - thcobbs, on 03/22/2009, -2/+18That explains why your mom is upstairs banging your friends for mortgage money.
- grimlenn, on 03/22/2009, -2/+18"He used to be a law student, but he thought that wasn’t where the money’s at, so in the blink of an eye he made the switch. "
..WTF?? - vett, on 03/22/2009, -1/+16Which witch is which?
- zydeco, on 03/22/2009, -0/+14There is when you blindly cut and paste without having a freaking clue on what the code is actually doing.
"Hmm, I'll put this SUV wheel on this bicycle. They're both round, after all." - stockjones, on 03/22/2009, -0/+13Stage 5: hubris competence
John has been programming for years. He knows the ins and outs of his development environment. Anything John does is the right way irregardless of input from others. Afterall, being such an experienced programmer must mean that everything John does is the right way and everyone else is wrong or stupid. John's talents at programming don't quite equate to his ability to communicate without coming off as a know it all or being rude. John excels at belittling people without even knowing it. John likes to write blogs about the different stages of being a programmer. - TheHerk, on 03/22/2009, -4/+17That is odd. Most compilers do a far better job of writing assembly than programmers.
- nepidae, on 03/22/2009, -1/+13"The other day he wrote 30 or 40 lines of code for a personal project of his. He can’t help but feel a little disappointed when, browsing the net a few days later, he sees an effortless and much more elegant execution in half as many lines. He wonders when he’ll be able to write solutions of that quality on his own, straightforwardly."
I've had this happen with my own code. Browsing some of my old stuff I find some very elegant code and I wonder how I managed it :) - PacoLugi, on 03/22/2009, -2/+13"John is a young web developer. He used to be a law student, but he thought that wasn’t where the money’s at"
Were exactly does a lawyer make less then a programmer? - richirwin, on 03/22/2009, -0/+111. Minor tasking - I implement easy solutions while my skills are being assessed by management.
2. Go-to Guy - High skills recognized, all hard problems come to me.
3. Lead developer - My job is make the code base easy to maintain, primarily through config files.
4. Unemployed - I made the architecture so flexible that someone in Indian is now taking home 1/10th of my salary. - brownb2, on 03/22/2009, -3/+14"This guy can even work on multiple languages and platforms."
bwah haha. It seems that our writer is in the third stage if he considers this to be advanced.... - sodoh, on 03/22/2009, -1/+12"If the answer to the above is "yes" - then who gives the slightest ***** about *how* you did it."
The real developers/programmers who have to clean up your crap and maintain it later - tattokris, on 03/22/2009, -0/+11I'm so good I can write Hello World in almost all languages.
- Dalrek, on 03/22/2009, -1/+12There is no way you have C++ skills if you can't get Hello World to run easily in C. K&R introduced that *****, so go pick it up.
- tgc1, on 03/22/2009, -0/+9Basically, if you can't get the job done, you're useless as a programmer. And by get the job done, I don't mean go tossing around on Google for 6 hours trying to find some code to cut and paste. Generally those people fail in the first few weeks, and are easy to weed out because they don't know the first ***** thing about programming.
In order to get hired at my last job, I had to pass a (very basic) programming competency test. Now people who program know how to pick apart code. That is what they do and should test. If you can't pick it apart and tell what each bit of that code does, you're not going to get anywhere.
Nobody, however, should be discouraged from getting into the field. As everyone starts from somewhere. The only way to get better at it is to gather experience. Create little projects for yourself. Some people may do it better, but then again you've got to start somewhere. Every programmer, no matter how good started somewhere. Made their mistakes, and learned from that. Nobody is born knowing how to code/program. So this seemingly pretentious view of things is kind of off putting.
Granted, I can see the frustration in the industry when people say they know what they are doing but fail to accomplish even the most basic of tasks. Working with those people can e frustrating to seasoned professionals, specially when those professionals may have to clean up after such an individual. Copy/pasters have no place in the industry, and even the best copy/paster will not last long on the job, as managers don't want excuses, they want results. And if you're there 8 hours a day searching for bits of code all over the internet, you're going to get booted one day or another. - inactive, on 03/22/2009, -0/+9The 'author' was applying the well known theory of the stages of learning specifically to programming.
I'm not saying it was good or even effective but I certainly didn't come away from it thinking it was his theory or a new theory. - inactive, on 03/22/2009, -0/+9Probably not the exact order I would have gone, but I like!
- Canumbler, on 03/22/2009, -1/+10"Modern psychology has attempted to classify how good we are at a certain skill by observing how deep it perforates that iceberg. It thus describes four stages of competence an individual can achieve. In this article I’ll try to apply this simple scheme to the skill we practice everyday: programming."
Where did he attempt to pass off the general theory as his own? - DeathRay2K, on 03/22/2009, -6/+15I remember when I realised I was at 4. I looked back at my code from when I was at 3 and rewrote months worth of work from that time in a couple weeks.
- thcobbs, on 03/22/2009, -0/+8How was it confusing? Basically its the progression of ability over time. If you like doing something, and you do it repeatedly, you become really freaking good at it.
Its like the old adage about wisdom. Wisdom doesn't come from knowing things; instead, wisdom comes from knowing what you don't know. - asspants, on 03/22/2009, -5/+12FUN FACT: basic actualy causes brain damage and should not be learned for any reason.
- ahurt000, on 03/22/2009, -0/+7Consciously Incompetent - the story of my life.
- brownb2, on 03/22/2009, -2/+9I'm a senior dev and I do at least 3 languages on a daily basis and work with a number of APIs and advanced subject areas and I consider myself at "conscious competence". I would consider someone at "unconscious competence" to be somebody who knows when NOT to apply design patterns, when to use a particular *competing* framework/api/language other another, and generally the guy whom all other knowledgeable developers go to when they have a question. Any fool can learn more than one API/language, unless you happen to be an elitist Java developer.
- thcobbs, on 03/22/2009, -1/+8More correctly
1.) Dumbass
2.) Tech support forum admin's favorite poster
3.) Been working real jobs for 3-5 years
4.) A GOOD programmer - feignNU, on 03/22/2009, -0/+7not redundant at all. It's a progression not a reiteration.
- jhails, on 03/22/2009, -0/+7A broader interpretation of this article applies to levels of competence in all jobs and in all aspects of human achievement from sports to music to business etc etc. This a very interesting read and I am not a programmer.
- Midnitte, on 03/22/2009, -0/+7Hmm... Im not sure about law, but students tend not to make any money unless I'm doin it wrong.
Also this sounds like Demetri Martin. :) - dave122, on 03/22/2009, -0/+6Programming: A race between programmers to make idiot proof programs and the world to produce bigger idiots. So far the world is winning...
not sure of the source on that, but it always makes me chuckle. - thcobbs, on 03/22/2009, -0/+6When he's not a lawyer yet? And really good programmers DO make a killing.
- dave122, on 03/22/2009, -0/+5There is nothing wrong with copy/paste, hell I copy paste all the time - it's just usually code I've written myself so I know exactly what it does and I can modify to do what I need it to very quickly. I was under the impression that most developers had a library of code they'd written to make writing new apps easier.
- MikeSD34, on 03/22/2009, -0/+5The writer didn't claim the theory was their own, just described the theory in relation to software development. It's clearly stated in the article, and even the articles summary. Personally, I thought it was an interesting read and not deceptive at all.
- powatom, on 03/22/2009, -0/+5Knowing what to do when you don't know what to do is the key to being a good programmer.
- cotaskmemalloc, on 03/22/2009, -2/+7You're not the only one. It was pretty bad.
- slippeh, on 03/22/2009, -1/+6I'd bury your comment for inacurrate if I could. I'll just digg it down instead.
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